Marine receives medal of honor
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Was hoping I wouldn't have to make this warning, but jesus christ you guys just can't help yourselves, can you?!? I'm disappointed, but not surprised. Anyways... This thread is about this particular act/individual, and doesn't need to turn into a flame fest about the merits of the war, wars in general, or to bash nations. See if you can control yourselves. | ||
Deleted User 109835
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Rain...
United States201 Posts
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zJayy962
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XXGeneration
United States625 Posts
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Khavok1
Belize15 Posts
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DreamChaser
1649 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Mr. Meyer showed little inclination to celebrate receiving the Medal of Honor. His one request to the president while he was in Washington was that the two men have a beer together, which Mr. Obama and Mr. Meyer did on Wednesday evening in a patio near the Rose Garden. Just that makes it worth it, but really the guy is pretty awesome congrats to him. But the real question what beer was it? | ||
shawster
Canada2485 Posts
Mr. Obama also described Mr. Meyer as conscientious to an almost painstaking degree. When the White House tried to arrange a call to inform Mr. Meyer — who was promoted to sergeant but left active duty for construction work in his home state, Kentucky — that he would be receiving the medal, Mr. Obama said, Mr. Meyer hesitated to get on the phone with the president because he was at work. The call was rescheduled for Mr. Meyer’s lunch break, Mr. Obama said. what a trooper. total respect | ||
Dusty
United States3359 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10679 Posts
His one request to the president while he was in Washington was that the two men have a beer together, which Mr. Obama and Mr. Meyer did on Wednesday evening in a patio near the Rose Garden. ... I am speachless, mad respect for this guy. | ||
Archas
United States6531 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Both are heroic and exceptional! But that story touched me a lot more D: | ||
DakotaA7X
United States74 Posts
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
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mardi
United States1164 Posts
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Crazyeyes
Canada1342 Posts
On September 18 2011 14:04 Aeres wrote: The term "hero" tends to be overused these days, but I believe it fits Meyer perfectly. Saved dozens of lives. Superhero. Seriously this is awesome, and that last line of the article is sweet XD | ||
RandomAccount#49059
United States2140 Posts
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Flik
Canada256 Posts
A better man than I. Respect. | ||
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Seeker
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Where dat snitch at?37032 Posts
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Mortal
2943 Posts
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Gnial
Canada907 Posts
On September 18 2011 14:27 Seeker wrote: Holy Crap. The first ever living recipient of a Medal of Honor, what a boss..... Oo Huh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_living_Medal_of_Honor_recipients Of the 85 living recipients, 14 earned their Medals of Honor in World War II, 13 in the Korean War, 55 in the Vietnam War, and three in the War in Afghanistan. Edit. Blows my mind that he made 4 trips, with 2 different jeeps because one got too damaged, and wasn't stopped by his commanding officer. What a boss. | ||
RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
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Fenrir-Vice
United States123 Posts
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hiREvel
United States80 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
On September 18 2011 14:27 Seeker wrote: Holy Crap. The first ever living recipient of a Medal of Honor, what a boss..... Oo lol what you on about? the medal of honor isn't just awarded posthumously | ||
Keitzer
United States2509 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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BalancedBreakfast
United States468 Posts
seeing a story like this of true dedication, and this willingness to sacrifice his life for the sake of others. and then seeing a headline on nytimes.com that says "Obama Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires" makes me sick to my stomach that there are people so privileged and yet not willing to make even a tiny sacrifice. | ||
KanoCoke
Japan863 Posts
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RezChi
Canada2368 Posts
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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
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zturchan
Canada156 Posts
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Hoon
Brazil891 Posts
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Fox116
United States409 Posts
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Playguuu
United States926 Posts
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johanngrunt
Hong Kong1555 Posts
On September 18 2011 14:58 Playguuu wrote: Confirmed: Marines OP Indeed. =) | ||
IrOnKaL
United States340 Posts
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Tppz!
Germany1449 Posts
Congratz! | ||
OhThatDang
United States4685 Posts
"In the course of six hours, survivors said, Corporal Meyer and his driver, Staff Sgt. Juan J. Rodriguez-Chavez, led five fights into the ravine toward Ganjigal" Juan J. Rodriguez-Chavez | ||
methematics
United States392 Posts
On September 18 2011 14:58 Playguuu wrote: Confirmed: Marines OP WP sir, wp. This guy is a boss btw. | ||
MyLastSerenade
Germany710 Posts
big respects to him! | ||
meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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Perseverance
Japan2800 Posts
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wordd
Australia190 Posts
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H.k[D]
United States260 Posts
Really makes you wonder how much Hollywood blows out of proportion the glory of war | ||
Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
On September 18 2011 13:41 SKTerran.117 wrote: This is a couple days old but I didn't see a thread for it and was a little surprised. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/us/dakota-meyer-marine-is-awarded-medal-of-honor.html there are other articles all over net about it. Sorry I don't have much to say about it personally, motivated the shit out of me to call my recruiter and stop dragging my feet about enlisting. the story + Show Spoiler + WASHINGTON — President Obama awarded the Medal of Honor on Thursday to a young former Marine who ignored orders to stay put and fought his way five times into an ambush in an Afghan ravine, helping to rescue three dozen comrades and to recover the remains of four dead American servicemen. Enlarge This Image Doug Mills/The New York Times "An American who placed himself in the thick of the fight." That is how President Obama described Dakota Meyer on Thursday in awarding him the Medal of Honor for helping rescue fellow Marines pinned down in battle in Afghanistan. Multimedia Photographs The Lens Blog: A Test, and Gratitude, at the White House Enlarge This Image Joao Silva/The New York Times Dakota Meyer and relatives spoke Thursday with President and Michelle Obama in the Oval Office. He received the Medal of Honor for valor in Afghanistan as a Marine corporal in 2009. Readers’ Comments Readers shared their thoughts on this article. Read All Comments (105) » In a ceremony at the White House, the president draped the medal over Dakota Meyer, describing him as a humble young man who repeatedly placed himself in extraordinary danger to save men he regarded as his brothers. “Today we pay tribute to an American who placed himself in the thick of the fight — again and again and again,” the president said. Mr. Meyer was the first living recipient from the Marine Corps to receive the award, the nation’s highest award for valor, for actions during the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq. “It may be a platform for representation of the guys who are out there fighting every day,” he said in a telephone interview before the award ceremony. “My story is one of millions, and the others aren’t often told.” He added: “You get the medal, and you start going about your life.” Mr. Meyer, 23, now a sergeant in the inactive reserve, was an infantry corporal on Sept. 8, 2009, when an Afghan and American column headed before dawn toward the village of Ganjigal in Kunar Province. The men in column — a mix of Afghan soldiers, border police officers and American trainers — were to meet with local elders. But they had been betrayed and walked into an ambush. Corporal Meyer and another Marine had been assigned to secure a flank, and as Taliban gunfire began and the rest of his team was trapped, he was several hundred yards away. Corporal Meyer listened on the radio as the rest of his Marine training team tried calling for help, and as Capt. Will Swenson of the Army, who worked with the border police and was also trapped, shouted into his radio for artillery support to suppress the Taliban fighters. Officers at the nearby Army headquarters denied the request for artillery support, leaving the men, many of them wounded, to fight on their own until helicopter gunships arrived. (Investigations later suggested the Army officers decided that because the trapped troops were unaware of the precise locations of all of the other troops on the operation, artillery fire might have endangered them and was best withheld.) Corporal Meyer asked permission several times to go into the ravine and to fight. He was told to remain in place, but decided to rush to the village nonetheless. In the course of six hours, survivors said, Corporal Meyer and his driver, Staff Sgt. Juan J. Rodriguez-Chavez, led five fights into the ravine toward Ganjigal. Four times they helped recover wounded men, first Afghans who were pinned down and later Americans similarly trapped. After the corporal freed Captain Swenson, the captain joined him in the fighting while an Army platoon nearby declined to help. On the last trip they recovered the remains of three Marines and a Navy corpsman. By then, according to the Marine Corps’ account of the fight, Corporal Meyer had killed eight Taliban fighters and stood up to several dozen more. (A fifth American later died of wounds suffered in the ravine.) Two years on, the ambush in Ganjigal has been examined, reexamined and presented in many different ways, often as an institutional failure and an example of the limits and dangers of the counterinsurgency theory that was pressed upon the troops by Gen. David H. Petraeus and the Pentagon. The betrayal by the villagers, the confused lines of command, the withheld artillery fire, the inaction of an Army platoon that might have helped the trapped men — have all been documented. In his remarks on Thursday, Mr. Obama did not mention the local treachery or the lapses of officers who might have helped that day. Instead, he dwelled on Mr. Meyer, who is described as a remarkable selfless example of a citizen at his best. “Dakota later confessed,” the president said, of the fighting in Ganjigal, “I didn’t think I was going to die. I knew I was.” Mr. Obama also described Mr. Meyer as conscientious to an almost painstaking degree. When the White House tried to arrange a call to inform Mr. Meyer — who was promoted to sergeant but left active duty for construction work in his home state, Kentucky — that he would be receiving the medal, Mr. Obama said, Mr. Meyer hesitated to get on the phone with the president because he was at work. The call was rescheduled for Mr. Meyer’s lunch break, Mr. Obama said. Mr. Meyer showed little inclination to celebrate receiving the Medal of Honor. His one request to the president while he was in Washington was that the two men have a beer together, which Mr. Obama and Mr. Meyer did on Wednesday evening in a patio near the Rose Garden. More proof that Marines are OP!! Grats to this guy. Wish I could have a beer with Obama. | ||
vol_
Australia1608 Posts
Mr. Meyer showed little inclination to celebrate receiving the Medal of Honor. His one request to the president while he was in Washington was that the two men have a beer together, which Mr. Obama and Mr. Meyer did on Wednesday evening in a patio near the Rose Garden. What a hero! | ||
teamamerica
United States958 Posts
However the other half of the story is the there was no artillery support because it might have hit civilians (as per the LA Times article on it). Suppose there was artillery support, as Cpt. Meyers wanted, and 50 civilians died. How would you all have viewed him then? If the article was instead marine orders artillery support resulting in 50 civilian deaths. I'm not saying most of you would change your opinions and hate him, just something to consider. | ||
Williammm
Australia908 Posts
![]() aye? aye? :D | ||
HwangjaeTerran
Finland5967 Posts
He disobeyed a direct order. Or is it okay to disobey orders if you still kill enough bad guys? Just curious. User was warned for this post | ||
Craze
United States561 Posts
edit: oh, and props to this guy and his driver - truly amazing | ||
ETisME
12481 Posts
afterall, america shouldn't even be there anyway User was warned for this post oh and I am warned. Your "See if you can control yourselves." is more like "please only speak good about this". This is an international website, you should actually learn about how other people can feel about this. I guess you are lucky that there is no Talibans here. Next time if you want whatever type of comment, just state it ahead User was warned for this post | ||
henery
Canada89 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On September 18 2011 16:36 henery wrote: This guy is amazing. If we have any American military men in here do you mind telling me what each of his medals represents? I only recognize the medal of honor and the purple heart. Thanks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_Meyer Awards Medal of Honor Purple Heart Medal Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal w/ V device Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal Combat Action Ribbon Marine Corps Good Conduct Medal National Defense Service Medal Afghanistan Campaign Medal w/ 2 campaign stars Iraq Campaign Medal w/ campaign star Global War On Terrorism Service Medal Sea Service Deployment Ribbon NATO Service Medal (ISAF) Expert marksmanship badge for rifle (3rd award) Expert marksmanship badge for pistol (2nd award) Theres some (maybe all?) of them for you. Someone might be able to fill in the rest. | ||
LuckyMacro
United States1482 Posts
thanks for sharing | ||
TYJ.Aoy
Brazil1265 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
He disobeyed a direct command, that's actually a pretty bad thing to do. Given the information at hand, I guess that's the right thing to do though, but even so I imagine the higher officials would have had a reason to issue that command. Then what he did, to me, seems extremely risky. I think it'd be very possible for him to just be shot immediately. I guess he got lucky and had the element of surprise on his side. He did save some of his comrades but in turn killed even more of the opposing soldiers. I guess that's what war is but... Oh and one last thing, it might be a bit troublesome that he received a medal of honor while disregarding direct orders, as that could cause some others to go into the "I know better" way of thinking. You really shouldn't disobey orders as a soldier even if you think you're correct, the whole system hinges on them and disobeying them leads into chaos. The final thing I'd like to add is that for one of these stories there's a thousand sad sories left untold, try rethinking enlisting. | ||
KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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weaksauce
369 Posts
http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/16/in-medal-of-honor-battle-senior-officers-failed/ "But while that day was the pinnacle of Meyer's service in the Marine Corps, it may have been the nadir in the careers of three unidentified U.S. military officers involved in the incident. Instead of medals, those three unidentified officers have received letters of reprimand, almost certainly meaning their careers are over." | ||
Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
That guy is really a hero. It's nice to hear a story like this about a returning soldier, because the other stories about returning soldiers are much more negative. And bonus man points for having a beer with Obama. | ||
teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
On September 18 2011 15:47 wordd wrote: cool story but I really deeply hate war. i agree. i cant say stuff like "respect" or "what a boss" its just, well i cant really express myself. i just disagree with ANY kind of war and im deeply against anything related to war that i just cant agree with anything related to war. ( im sorry if thats hard to read/understand but i seriously cant express myself in this regard..) | ||
sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
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necrOtix
81 Posts
Official patch 1.4 notes New ability researchable from the Tech Lab. [Medal of Honor (passive), increases overall Army moral (+1 dps to army). Re searchable after an injured Marine with over 10 kills is unloaded from a Medivac. Costs 200 minerals 200 gas. "wow that marine must have had 3/3 upgrades!!" Blizzard employee: "Hey Dustin Browder, take a look at this story. i think it's time for marines to be nerfed." ..... Dustin: "HAHA NERF TERRAN?! U FUNNY" | ||
Silentness
United States2821 Posts
Anyways marines are bad ass. Being in the marines is pretty respectful because it's a pretty strict military style. | ||
NovaTheFeared
United States7224 Posts
On September 18 2011 17:53 teddyoojo wrote: i agree. i cant say stuff like "respect" or "what a boss" its just, well i cant really express myself. i just disagree with ANY kind of war and im deeply against anything related to war that i just cant agree with anything related to war. ( im sorry if thats hard to read/understand but i seriously cant express myself in this regard..) Yeah, God forbid anyone save lives if they're doing it in a war. That's rational. | ||
Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On September 18 2011 18:39 NovaTheFeared wrote: Yeah, God forbid anyone save lives if they're doing it in a war. That's rational. Or maybe you could just not start wars in the first place. The US army also has a pretty bad name internationally for its uncountably many war crimes. I think that is a bit of a boner killer for a lot of people. User was warned for this post | ||
necrOtix
81 Posts
On September 18 2011 18:45 Euronyme wrote: Or maybe you could just not start wars in the first place. The US army also has a pretty bad name internationally for its uncountably many war crimes. I think that is a bit of a boner killer for a lot of people. Why do Europeans complain about everything? "maybe you should not start wars in the first place" you really think that is a reasonable thing to say? The US army doesn't have a "bad name" internationally, can you provide negative stories from Iraqi civilians, or elsewhere, that can compare to the overwhelming about of 'peacekeeping' we do / did in the middle east.. korea.. everywhere.. I do want us to pull many of our troops back. But saying "maybe ya shundt'a started teh war hurr durr" is stupid. | ||
Ruin
United States271 Posts
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
On September 18 2011 18:53 necrOtix wrote: Why do Europeans complain about everything? "maybe you should not start wars in the first place" you really think that is a reasonable thing to say? The US army doesn't have a "bad name" internationally, can you provide negative stories from Iraqi civilians, or elsewhere, that can compare to the overwhelming about of 'peacekeeping' we do / did in the middle east.. korea.. everywhere.. I do want us to pull many of our troops back. But saying "maybe ya shundt'a started teh war hurr durr" is stupid. I guess it was bound to come to this... | ||
NovaTheFeared
United States7224 Posts
Salute to Dakota Meyer. | ||
Grettin
42381 Posts
On September 18 2011 17:48 darkscream wrote: There's not many pieces of good news that come out of this ridiculous, frivolous, conspiracy-laden war, but damn. That guy is really a hero. It's nice to hear a story like this about a returning soldier, because the other stories about returning soldiers are much more negative. And bonus man points for having a beer with Obama. My word pretty much. Respect to mr. Meyer, well fucking done. | ||
Biff The Understudy
France7910 Posts
All of that is very nice. Heroism, all the stuff. Great. Do you know the suicide rate in US army in Irak and Afghanistan? http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/jan2010/suic-j06.shtml Why would you go in the middle of an absurd war, in the middle of a population that doesn't want you and doesn't like you, fighting for a cause you don't know anything about because it is nonexistent? It doesn't make sense. Don't fuck up your life, seriously. User was warned for this post | ||
Roflhaxx
Korea (South)1244 Posts
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Alokiya
United States648 Posts
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JFKWT
Singapore1442 Posts
that being said, cool guy saved 36 for 8 taliban lives so mathematically thats probably a bit of a (pyrrhic) victory I guess? =/ ?? | ||
thopol
Japan4560 Posts
As to joining yourself, you have to ask yourself whether you can be a killer. In wartime, anyone in the service could be put in combat situations. Do you have what it takes to kill another human being? On September 18 2011 18:29 Silentness wrote: Anyways marines are bad ass. Being in the marines is pretty respectful because it's a pretty strict military style. I used to live by a marine base and on Friday night respectful could be pretty far from the mark. Don't get me wrong, they're human and I met plenty of marines who were great folks, but the 'we're the best killing machines in the world' attitude associated with that branch tends to attract a more muscle-head attitude than say sailors. EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not trying to say it wasn't a heroic action. I'm just saying that disregarding orders is the root of problems in the occupation. | ||
Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:15 JFKWT wrote: Why are users being warned for being anti-war/anti-army? that being said, cool guy saved 36 for 8 taliban lives so mathematically thats probably a bit of a (pyrrhic) victory I guess? =/ ?? Yea thats 36 lives saved and 0 lost. This guy really deserves the medal. | ||
hifriend
China7935 Posts
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garlicface
Canada4196 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:15 JFKWT wrote: Why are users being warned for being anti-war/anti-army? that being said, cool guy saved 36 for 8 taliban lives so mathematically thats probably a bit of a (pyrrhic) victory I guess? =/ ?? A bit of victory? 8 "bad guys" died. Does it make any difference to you whether they die or are just critically wounded? Do Meyer's actions suddenly become more tolerable? To people bitching in the thread: What if there were 8 armed robbers carrying lethal force in a bank? I kill all 8, and save 36 people in the bank. Am I more deserving of praise because it "wasn't war"? Am I not worthy of praise at all because I killed people? + Show Spoiler + God damn some of your comments are just infuriating. | ||
Biff The Understudy
France7910 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:23 Deadlyfish wrote: Yea thats 36 lives saved and 0 lost. This guy really deserves the medal. Talibans don't have lives, that's interesting. Can you explain the reasoning? On September 18 2011 20:30 garlicface wrote: A bit of victory? 8 "bad guys" died. Does it make any difference to you whether they die or are just critically wounded? Do Meyer's actions suddenly become more tolerable? To people bitching in the thread: What if there were 8 armed robbers carrying lethal force in a bank? I kill all 8, and save 36 people in the bank. Am I more deserving of praise because it "wasn't war"? Am I not worthy of praise at all because I killed people? + Show Spoiler + God damn some of your comments are just infuriating. He did great for his army, and that's true surely heroic. But if you talk about saving lives, the 8 enemies he killed will also leave widows and orphans behind. That's all what we mean. Now, the perspective is completely different whether you consider that the Americans are the aggressor and that these people were defending their country, which is something many people, including me believe (it doesn't make Taliban any nicer, though), or if you think that they deserve death for their fight. The point with the bank robbery is that the 36 people would be innocent. Here we talk about two factions fighting, and it's not that clear who is right and wrong. | ||
Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:31 Biff The Understudy wrote: Talibans don't have lives, that's interesting. Can you explain the reasoning? Sure, they kill innocent people, among them women and children. Killing a taliban is not a life lost in my opinion. Especially not when they're trying to kill you. If someone is shooting at wounded soldiers or whatever, their life doesnt really mean anything to me. | ||
Biff The Understudy
France7910 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:33 Deadlyfish wrote: Sure, they kill innocent people, among them women and children. Killing a taliban is not a life lost in my opinion. Especially not when they're trying to kill you. If someone is shooting at wounded soldiers or whatever, their life doesnt really mean anything to me. When you don't consider your enemies as being humans anymore, you are in serious trouble. And the idea that life of some people doesn't have any value is... disturbing, for the least. | ||
Chrispy
Canada5878 Posts
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:33 Deadlyfish wrote: Sure, they kill innocent people, among them women and children. Killing a taliban is not a life lost in my opinion. Especially not when they're trying to kill you. If someone is shooting at wounded soldiers or whatever, their life doesnt really mean anything to me. are you serious?? i cant believe what i just read. disturbing and really really sad to say the least. | ||
Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:38 Biff The Understudy wrote: When you don't consider your enemies as being humans anymore, you are in serious trouble. And the idea that life of some people doesn't have any value is... disturbing, for the least. I would consider them human. But when taliban warriors, who already have sort of a bad rep, are trying to kill wounded soldiers then i dont think you should really care about them. And i would not consider their lives lost a bad thing. Obviously you should never kill someone if it can be avoided, but in this case i dont think that is a possibility. | ||
Equity213
Canada873 Posts
User was temp banned for this post and a horrible moderation history at this site. | ||
GGitsJack
New Zealand426 Posts
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Lafie
Finland36 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:33 Deadlyfish wrote: Sure, they kill innocent people, among them women and children. Killing a taliban is not a life lost in my opinion. Especially not when they're trying to kill you. If someone is shooting at wounded soldiers or whatever, their life doesnt really mean anything to me. = No warnings. sorry I dont cheer for murderers. No matter how warm and bubbly it makes you feel inside. Aww a beer with president isnt that nice. = Temp ban. We can at least see which side the moderators are. User was warned for this post Specifically, being off topic after the warning was issued | ||
TearsOfTheSun
Canada995 Posts
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acidfreak
Romania352 Posts
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reneg
United States859 Posts
100% support him. What a BA. Also props on a beer w/ the president! | ||
gillon
Sweden1578 Posts
On September 18 2011 14:06 Torte de Lini wrote: I think the medal of honor that went to the man who used his helmet and body to cover a grenade and save his troops was a lot more amazing than this story. Both are heroic and exceptional! But that story touched me a lot more D: Yeah, that kinda stuff will have me shedding manly tears in no time. | ||
BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:54 Lafie wrote: = No warnings. = Temp ban. We can at least see which side the moderators are. Looks like they're not on the side of the people that treat women like shit and set off bombs in crowded marketplaces. What a shocker. | ||
Black[CAT]
Malaysia2589 Posts
This man, is a hero! | ||
teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
On September 18 2011 21:16 BlackJack wrote: Looks like they're not on the side of the people that treat women like shit and set off bombs in crowded marketplaces. What a shocker. you just totally missed the point good sir | ||
Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
And rofl at his request to have a beer with the president. XD | ||
BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On September 18 2011 21:24 teddyoojo wrote: you just totally missed the point good sir I know what the guy's point is. It's just not a very good point, which is why I am mocking it ![]() | ||
3DGlaDOS
Germany607 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:38 Biff The Understudy wrote: When you don't consider your enemies as being humans anymore, you are in serious trouble. And the idea that life of some people doesn't have any value is... disturbing, for the least. Don't be overcorrect, if you'd be there you would think exactly like Deadlyfish. If you're in favor of your enemy, who would kill you as soon as he sees you, you're doing it wrong as a soldier. At least in modern wars (Iraq and Afghanistan), where you don't know if it's a civilian or a Taliban. War is bad, and really disturbing and terrific actions are done on both sides. IMO you can't look away in a part of the world where bad things happen, and to help this country it's for me okay to use the military to get peace in this country (like e.g. in Iraq, the situation there is getting better). For this we need people (or "heroes") like Mr.Meyer! But why don't we (or rather the US and UK army, since the rest of europe doesn't do much) for example help in Sri Lanka or the dozen of african countries where civil wars are going on? It's interesting, because these countries don't have much economical potential. I'm just asking this question since I haven't heard a reasonable answer to it. | ||
teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
On September 18 2011 21:32 wBsKillian wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 18 2011 20:38 Biff The Understudy wrote: When you don't consider your enemies as being humans anymore, you are in serious trouble. And the idea that life of some people doesn't have any value is... disturbing, for the least. Don't be overcorrect, if you'd be there you would think exactly like Deadlyfish. If you're in favor of your enemy, who would kill you as soon as he sees you, you're doing it wrong as a soldier. War is bad, and really disturbing and terrific actions are done on both sides. IMO you can't look away in a part of the world where bad things happen, and to help this country it's for me okay to use the military to get peace in this country (like e.g. in Iraq, the situation there is getting better). For this we need people (or "heroes") like Mr.Meyer! But why don't we (or rather the US and UK army, since the rest of europe doesn't do much) for example help in Sri Lanka or the dozen of african countries where civil wars are going on? It's interesting, because these countries don't have much economical potential. I'm just asking this question since I haven't heard a reasonable answer to it. Your first point is just not true.. http://history1900s.about.com/od/1910s/a/christmastruce.htm and well, to your point with the african countries, its not really related to the thread. | ||
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vGl-CoW
Belgium8305 Posts
"This thread is about this particular act/individual, and doesn't need to turn into a flame fest about the merits of the war, wars in general, or to bash nations." One more word that's off-topic and I'm dishing out tempbans. | ||
3DGlaDOS
Germany607 Posts
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:33 Deadlyfish wrote: Sure, they kill innocent people, among them women and children. Killing a taliban is not a life lost in my opinion. Especially not when they're trying to kill you. If someone is shooting at wounded soldiers or whatever, their life doesnt really mean anything to me. Although I also shed no tears for enemy combatants, I would urge you to consider that they feel the exact same thing about our soldiers. | ||
Biff The Understudy
France7910 Posts
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
Forget about the war, forget about the reasons the war is being fought. Just recognize that this guy was willing to repeatedly put himself in mortal danger for to save the lives of his comrades. And after receiving the highest commendation possible, all he wanted was to have a beer with the president. How is that not cool? | ||
Biff The Understudy
France7910 Posts
On September 18 2011 21:53 Supamang wrote: I cant believe people are using this thread as a platform to spout their personal beliefs about war. Forget about the war, forget about the reasons the war is being fought. Just recognize that this guy was willing to repeatedly put himself in mortal danger for to save the lives of his comrades. And after receiving the highest commendation possible, all he wanted was to have a beer with the president. How is that not cool? Ok, my last post in that thread and I'm off, because it's becoming dangerous. If the soldier was a Taliban who saved his comrade's lives against American and killed 8 of them, would you say the same and rejoice? Since the Taliban are, for a certain number of us, not the "bad ones" in this war, but just people who defend their country (and their terrible believes have nothing to do with that), it's exactly the same. So if such thread was made, wouldn't you reasonably expect Americans to say that maybe it was heroic, but maybe there are other questions to be asked? That's what some people are saying. It's not to bash anybody, and it's not stupid anti-Americanism. User was temp banned for ignoring prior warning in this thread and knowing better. | ||
ETisME
12481 Posts
On September 18 2011 21:53 Supamang wrote: I cant believe people are using this thread as a platform to spout their personal beliefs about war. Forget about the war, forget about the reasons the war is being fought. Just recognize that this guy was willing to repeatedly put himself in mortal danger for to save the lives of his comrades. And after receiving the highest commendation possible, all he wanted was to have a beer with the president. How is that not cool? everyone is fighting for their own and their team mates' life in war. Whether it was ordered or not ordered. | ||
K_Dilkington
Sweden449 Posts
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AcuWill
United States281 Posts
On September 18 2011 21:57 Biff The Understudy wrote: Ok, my last post in that thread and I'm off, because it's becoming dangerous. If the soldier was a Taliban who saved his comrade's lives against American and killed 8 of them, would you say the same and rejoice? Since the Taliban are, for a certain number of us, not the "bad ones" in this war, but just people who defend their country (and their terrible believes have nothing to do with that), it's exactly the same. So if such thread was made, wouldn't you reasonably expect Americans to say that maybe it was heroic, but maybe there are other questions to be asked? That's what some people are saying. It's not to bash anybody, and it's not stupid anti-Americanism. Agree. I am very pleased that he was able to save his fellow comrades, but I find it odd that this incident which is a result of a culmination all that is wrong with the current wars and a microcosm therein (screwed up chain of command, questionable or non-existent end goals, lack of organization, inability to determine location, inability to determine the enemy, inability to determine allies, misappropriation of resources, etc.) is being used by some as motivation to add themselves to the meat grinder. Edit: And why was he temp banned for a salient point which was made with no attack on other posters? | ||
[GiTM]-Ace
United States4935 Posts
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K_Dilkington
Sweden449 Posts
On September 18 2011 21:57 Biff The Understudy wrote: Ok, my last post in that thread and I'm off, because it's becoming dangerous. If the soldier was a Taliban who saved his comrade's lives against American and killed 8 of them, would you say the same and rejoice? Since the Taliban are, for a certain number of us, not the "bad ones" in this war, but just people who defend their country (and their terrible believes have nothing to do with that), it's exactly the same. So if such thread was made, wouldn't you reasonably expect Americans to say that maybe it was heroic, but maybe there are other questions to be asked? That's what some people are saying. It's not to bash anybody, and it's not stupid anti-Americanism. You're extremely ignorant. Maybe you should do some research on the Talibans first so you don't look like a complete idiot? You're defending a group of religious fanatics that would kill you and your family without hesitation for the sole reason that you're not Muslim. Stop being so got damned blue eyed and wake up to the realization that not all people are equally good. You're a prime example of how European pacifism have turned tolerance into tolerance of hate and fanaticism. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
zachMEISTER
United States625 Posts
On September 18 2011 22:04 K_Dilkington wrote: You're extremely ignorant. Maybe you should do some research on the Talibans first so you don't look like a complete idiot? You're defending a group of religious fanatics that would kill you and your family without hesitation for the sole reason that you're not Muslim. Stop being so got damned blue eyed and wake up to the realization that not all people are equally good. You're a prime example of how European pacifism have turned tolerance into tolerance of hate and fanaticism. User was temp banned for this post. LoL, well spoken. Being told not to do something Heroic is common in the theatre of war. That's why they tell you no, because you're acting as a hero, and not doing as told. However, after the many many attempts to get some help from his superiors, I feel his actions were justified. I don't care who you are, if you're comrades are pinned down and you're watching from a distance, it's going to eat you from the inside very quickly. He would've done something either way. He already stated he "was sure he was going to die." That's why this guy was awarded the medal of honor, not because he disobeyed an ordered or his kill count. This man displayed HONOR in the heat of battle. He put others' lives before his own. Fuck the politics and moralities, this dude is a bad ass and deserves much respect. | ||
nooboon
2602 Posts
(You know when you have been paying attention to Starcraft too much when you read the title and thought MKP won a medal of honor.) | ||
darklight54321
United States361 Posts
During the investigation they found numerous flaws in the command chain, if it wasn't for this he would prob have gotten a Honorable Discharge and a Medal, but since they found these flaws in this situation, and they need some form of hero always in every war, he was able to "get away" with it. Plus, if you mention they never said where the order came from, if it came from his DIRECT superior the Captain, then it would mean more then a guy several miles away with no info. | ||
Supamang
United States2298 Posts
On September 18 2011 21:57 ETisME wrote: everyone is fighting for their own and their team mates' life in war. Whether it was ordered or not ordered. ok? really though, whats the point of this post? are you just trying to one up me for he sake of doing so? besides it doesnt work. no shit everyone is fighting for their lives and their teammates lives. Obviously this particular soldier went above and beyond the call of duty and that is why he earned the medal. Seriously, whats your problem? | ||
Puph
Canada635 Posts
edit: bold to italic On September 18 2011 23:31 AsnSensation wrote: Im not a huge fan of the military, especially the us army, but if everything in this article is true then this guy is a fucking baller, imba like his starcraft 2 marine brothers. that's how its done ![]() | ||
AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
but if everything in this article is true then this guy is a fucking baller, imba like his starcraft 2 marine brothers. | ||
ddrddrddrddr
1344 Posts
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kef
283 Posts
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voy
Poland348 Posts
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
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Nagisama
Canada4481 Posts
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Brethern
231 Posts
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thoradycus
Malaysia3262 Posts
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MetalLobster
Canada532 Posts
On September 18 2011 14:58 Playguuu wrote: Confirmed: Marines OP WP WP. Congratz to the marine, his medal of honor is well-deserved. | ||
IntoTheBush
United States552 Posts
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Setev
Malaysia390 Posts
On September 18 2011 16:35 ETisME wrote: Just hate war no matter "what heroic action someone did" afterall, america shouldn't even be there anyway User was warned for this post oh and I am warned. Your "See if you can control yourselves." is more like "please only speak good about this". This is an international website, you should actually learn about how other people can feel about this. I guess you are lucky that there is no Talibans here. Next time if you want whatever type of comment, just state it ahead I wonder how any of what Meyer did was a bad thing... If you are talking about US participation in the war, then that topic should be reserved for another thread, as its not relevant here, I guess.. | ||
The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On September 19 2011 01:07 IntoTheBush wrote: thats how we roll in KY ![]() Wait what. | ||
ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
He means Kentucky, KY is the abbreviation for Kentucky. Either way, this seems very heroic of him. I'm glad he made it out with the rest of the crew. Congrats to him for receiving the medal, I'm sure it please him and his family very well! | ||
FryktSkyene
United States1327 Posts
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ISeriousNow
United Kingdom63 Posts
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dangerjoe
Denmark1866 Posts
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Weson
Iceland1032 Posts
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intoyourrainbOW
United States168 Posts
![]() User was temp banned for this post. | ||
Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
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Sceptor87
Canada266 Posts
When the White House tried to arrange a call to inform Mr. Meyer — who was promoted to sergeant but left active duty for construction work in his home state, Kentucky — that he would be receiving the medal, Mr. Obama said, Mr. Meyer hesitated to get on the phone with the president because he was at work. The call was rescheduled for Mr. Meyer’s lunch break, Mr. Obama said. Mr. Meyer showed little inclination to celebrate receiving the Medal of Honor. His one request to the president while he was in Washington was that the two men have a beer together, which Mr. Obama and Mr. Meyer did on Wednesday evening in a patio near the Rose Garden. I mean how can anybody with a set of nuts and a heart not think that this guy is as selfless as it gets. He not only saved people from certain death because of a complete military fuck up but he also really doesn't give a fuck if he just received the absolute highest certification of valor. Throw aside personal beliefs in this so called "War on Terror" and realize that this single man is infinitely the better than many in a higher social status. Be happy for him and be happy to know that people like that exist. It at least gives me some semblance of hope for our species when I see acts like this instead of continual greed and gluttony. On September 19 2011 10:19 Krehlmar wrote: Against the wars, against idealizing people who go to war, don't enjoy it and I think it's sad that people need medals for doing what should be right from the very start. Fact of the matter is that people don't do what's right, the vast majority of the time in fact. Most of the time it's all about self preservation instead of selfless acts of heroism or kindness. And you know that. In fact, and I'm rather ashamed to say this, but if I was in his position and the result looked grim I wouldn't have done what he did and I doubt that the majority of people would either. And you should idealize some people that go to war. Do you look down on a WWII veteran from Britain, the US, Canada, Russia, and so on, someone that stopped a madman from committing further audacious acts of genocide and conquering Europe? Exactly. | ||
Steveh
United States112 Posts
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crown77
United States157 Posts
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On September 19 2011 10:37 JiYan wrote: its strange to me because you always hear about people getting punished for subordination. i mean even though what he did was admirable without a doubt, he still disobeyed orders. The 2 headed beast that is hypocrisy. | ||
Chargelot
2275 Posts
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Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
On September 19 2011 10:27 Sceptor87 wrote: Fact of the matter is that people don't do what's right, the vast majority of the time in fact. Most of the time it's all about self preservation instead of selfless acts of heroism or kindness. And you know that. In fact, and I'm rather ashamed to say this, but if I was in his position and the result looked grim I wouldn't have done what he did and I doubt that the majority of people would either. And you should idealize some people that go to war. Do you look down on a WWII veteran from Britain, the US, Canada, Russia, and so on, someone that stopped a madman from committing further audacious acts of genocide and conquering Europe? Exactly. I'm replying to this but please anyone who is only here to give honors to a person they think did the right thing, ignore it. Don't want to start drama here just want to give my reply. + Show Spoiler + So? My grandfathers brothers hjumpt into the tracks of german tanks when France was invaded. Not because of nationalism, they were forced to fight with WW1 rifles because they were from Tunisia (of which they were force-conscripted). Out of a 1000 batallion my grandfather was the only survivor because he didn't charge when asked. His friends who managed to stop some tanks with their own godamn bodies, didn't get medals. Because the tunisians, togheter with all the other force-conscripts, had no rights. In my opinion World War 2 was a great thing for the entire world other than Europa since it taught the french and english that being the bitch in a conflict isn't fun. Without it we'd probably still have colonialism, no voting for blacks in the US and the standard of thinking in the world would still be Social Darwinism of which enabled the French, German, Italien, Belgium, Spanish, Netherlands etc. to commit thousands upon thousands of atrocities across the entire globe. (Newflash; Just about everyone was a racist back then.) Colonialism killed more innocent lives than Hitler did. So did I think it was great that Hitler invaded Russia and thus killed his own expansion? Yes. Am I thankful for the French, English or Americans? No. The world isn't black and white, people who go to war never do it for the right reasons. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
ZiegFeld
351 Posts
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Rybka
United States836 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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DreamChaser
1649 Posts
Oh yea this guys a total boss. | ||
Menzies
New Zealand129 Posts
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Ettick
United States2434 Posts
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Xaerkar
United States230 Posts
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JamesJohansen
United States213 Posts
On September 19 2011 10:37 JiYan wrote: its strange to me because you always hear about people getting punished for subordination. i mean even though what he did was admirable without a doubt, he still disobeyed orders. I agree. For some reason, while this guy has balls of steel, I feel somewhat bothered by this story. I mean, I'm sure the CO had a good reason for telling him not to go back into the line of fire. Had the story been different and he got shot right off the bat, this wouldn't be reported in the news and would just be a footnote saying a marine died from insubordination. I guess he exorcised good judgement if it was clear enough for him to make multiple trips and fire on (and take out) enemies on the way. But I almost feel like this should be more cautionary. Yeah, he did the right thing, but don't ordinarily disobey orders. | ||
Grimmyman123
Canada939 Posts
The Medal of Honour is similar to the Victoria Cross - however the track record for the Vic Cross pretty much means the solider often is awarded posthumously. | ||
No_Roo
United States905 Posts
A bit disappointing to see. :\ | ||
Ramiel
United States1220 Posts
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emc
United States3088 Posts
![]() this guy is a beast, I have some friends in the marines and those guys have balls. | ||
AllHailTheDead
United States418 Posts
i just wanna say you gotta think about what the Commanding Officer said. He did disobey an order but he saved lives What if he didnt tho which is prob how his CO thought it would turn out heavy machine gun fire, lost 36 men(they are pinned down CO prob didnt think they could be saved without excess of casualties and now 2 more want to risk their lives and lose 2 jeeps during(only one broke during). That would be an even worse lose already so I think the CO was doing the right thing Glad it turned out good which in most wars is not the case oh and EDIT: What if a german soldier wanted to disobey ordered during WWII. He prob would have been shot ![]() one more edit. After watching the youtube video it puts it in a completely perspective to me pretty epic glad he acted "you either get them out alive or you die trying, and if you didnt die trying you didnt try hard enough" pretty fucking savage | ||
HauntYou
Canada68 Posts
On September 19 2011 11:26 No_Roo wrote: In the spirit of TL, the moderation approach of this thread so far doesn't feel particularly 'international'. A bit disappointing to see. :\ TL is a privately owned site and they don't really have any obligation to be "international", whatever that means. The perspective is, a man is being awarded a prestigious award by his country for his valiant actions during a conflict. Pay no attention to which country or what conflict, because that is inconsequential. After all, if it were each poster's own respective country they would likely have no qualms with it, but it's much too easy to hate and criticize another. I can respect the action of putting oneself in danger in order to save others, politics aside. Sometimes I feel like people don't quite understand what being a soldier entails- they place their lives in the hands of their superiors (and politicians) in the belief that whatever orders they dictate will serve and protect their country. This topic is not a platform to spout one's own convoluted opinion on war, but to honour a medal of honor recipient. If people want to discuss anything other than this man's actions, that belongs elsewhere. | ||
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