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BlackJack
United States10501 Posts
On September 26 2011 07:49 DeepElemBlues wrote: The bailouts that were made public... not the hundreds of billions given by the Fed to European banks, or a similar amount given to American banks through means other than TARP. Source? | ||
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
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Perdac Curall
242 Posts
Wasn't hundreds of billions. It was 16 trillion dollars secretly given away. It was uncovered by the Federal Reserve partial audit. Imagine what we would find with a full audit. http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3 It is fair to say it was given to them for nothing, since the zombie banks have so much toxic debt held in worthless derivatives that any money we send them instantly disappears down that black hole. | ||
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Elegy
United States1629 Posts
On September 26 2011 11:12 Perdac Curall wrote: Wasn't hundreds of billions. It was 16 trillion dollars secretly given away. It was uncovered by the Federal Reserve partial audit. Imagine what we would find with a full audit. http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3 It is fair to say it was given to them for nothing, since the zombie banks have so much toxic debt held in worthless derivatives that any money we send them instantly disappears down that black hole. People still cite this as evidence of anything? Anyone with a basic knowledge of finance knows this is vastly different than the "bailouts". I know there were at least a few threads about it before people realized how stupid they sounded and stopped bringing it up. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10501 Posts
On September 26 2011 11:12 Perdac Curall wrote: Wasn't hundreds of billions. It was 16 trillion dollars secretly given away. It was uncovered by the Federal Reserve partial audit. Imagine what we would find with a full audit. http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3 It is fair to say it was given to them for nothing, since the zombie banks have so much toxic debt held in worthless derivatives that any money we send them instantly disappears down that black hole. The third word after "$16 trillion" is "loans." | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
Sounds peachy. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
Before you start bitching about bailouts please educate yourself byactually reading sth written by people who do research about it or work in financial sector/financial supervision/Central Bank. And then once you know at least the basic rationale behind Fed's actions you can criticize it. If you're a student or faculty member at any uni then you should have access to the following articles that include facts and data about the "bailout" and "financial crisis" 1. About FED's policy http://dss.ucsd.edu/~grondina/pdfs/week5_cecchetti_earlyfedresponse.pdf 2. About financial innovations and the freeze in REPO market: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304405X1100081X 3. Overall description of the crisis: http://www.nber.org/papers/w14612.ack | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On September 26 2011 12:13 Dapper_Cad wrote: Good loans? Bad loans? Who knows? What is known is that the decision to loan all that money was made without the knowledge or scrutiny of the public which now hold the debt. Sounds peachy. No, the banks hold the debt! And should they not pay the money back (highly unlikely) it's an issue for the Fed not the taxpayers. Fed action does not involve taxpayer money and it is SUPPOSED to be secret - it's all part of the "bank runs are bad" thing. | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On September 26 2011 11:12 Perdac Curall wrote: Wasn't hundreds of billions. It was 16 trillion dollars secretly given away. It was uncovered by the Federal Reserve partial audit. Imagine what we would find with a full audit. http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3 It is fair to say it was given to them for nothing, since the zombie banks have so much toxic debt held in worthless derivatives that any money we send them instantly disappears down that black hole. http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/files/BSTcombinedfinstmt2010.pdf See page 6 for the Fed's balance sheet. Currently the Fed has about $2.4 trillion in loans on its ballance sheet. Of that about $1 trillion is in treasuries. If the Fed lent out $16 trillion to banks then the VAST VAST VAST VAST majority has been repaid... with interest. The Fed made a nice $80 billion payment to the US treasury last year! Guess the Fed should lend more not less, eh? | ||
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Saji
Netherlands262 Posts
Arrested For Talking to a Cop Loller, nice job Police.... I bet those girls will never trust the authorities anymo | ||
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oldgregg
New Zealand1176 Posts
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Grend
1600 Posts
On September 25 2011 22:11 Grumbels wrote: I'm sure the fallacy you're using has a name, but I can't really think of it right now. So, the average person can't be aware exactly which people, companies, sectors the American financial industry consists of, not being an expert. They can see that this group as a whole has created problems, so they attack this group since they can't really narrow it down any further. You on the other hand say that as long as you can't define the exact set of 'bad people', you have no arguments, but that's plainly ridiculous, since you can always feign innocence and claim that "well, perhaps the bank I work for has done bad things, but it's just one or two bad apples in management!" and in the end nobody has to take any responsibility whatsoever. If it is a fallacy to try to heighten the discussion to a level where it is actually possible to debate things and to bring arguments to the table then I do not know what to do. I`m not interested in stopping the discussion and silencing people by using debating techniques, I just want the debate to at least a tiny bit like a debate :-\. Now it is just people throwing out random sentences with alot of hyperbole. | ||
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Agathon
France1505 Posts
On September 26 2011 17:17 oldgregg wrote: why do the cops always attack peaceful protestors? Easy targets | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On September 26 2011 17:17 oldgregg wrote: why do the cops always attack peaceful protestors? Too much steroids. | ||
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bOne7
Romania85 Posts
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
On September 26 2011 13:46 JonnyBNoHo wrote: No, the banks hold the debt! And should they not pay the money back (highly unlikely) it's an issue for the Fed not the taxpayers. Fed action does not involve taxpayer money and it is SUPPOSED to be secret - it's all part of the "bank runs are bad" thing. What am I misunderstanding here? The entity that is owed the money holds the debt, the fed holds the debt and the fed's debt is public debt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_public_debt "Debt held by the public comprises securities held by investors outside the federal government, including that held by investors, the Federal Reserve System and foreign, state and local governments." Seriously what have I misunderstood? Help me out. | ||
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Saji
Netherlands262 Posts
On September 26 2011 20:39 Dapper_Cad wrote: What am I misunderstanding here? The entity that is owed the money holds the debt, the fed holds the debt and the fed's debt is public debt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_public_debt "Debt held by the public comprises securities held by investors outside the federal government, including that held by investors, the Federal Reserve System and foreign, state and local governments." Seriously what have I misunderstood? Help me out. nothing it's pretty precise, FED issues money, this money comes from tax payers, this is because the way money is issued is basically giving I OWE YOU`s (DEBT) to the fed which then the fed turn into money + interest and that money is used for TARP, Bailouts etc How can you see this? well every time such quantities are issued, the government has to cut public spending because the budget has shrinked or priority on spending changes. Or just look at the what happened to the public debt in America and the European Countries between 2007 and 2008. | ||
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Sea_Food
Finland1612 Posts
I tought that in USA there is democracy and if 51% of people think that A should happen, A will happen. 51% can get anyone president and majority in congress. Now there are people in the street complaining that the top 1% of the population are too greedy and corrupted and the bottom 99% are having hard time. Clearly the top 1% cant vote themselfs the leaders, so almost the majority of the ones having hard time must want that they have hard time because they are voting for politics that let it continue. Dosnt make sence to me, someone explain please. | ||
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hp.Shell
United States2527 Posts
On September 26 2011 21:19 Sea_Food wrote: Can someone who knows about this tell me how is this even possible? I tought that in USA there is democracy and if 51% of people think that A should happen, A will happen. 51% can get anyone president and majority in congress. Now there are people in the street complaining that the top 1% of the population are too greedy and corrupted and the bottom 99% are having hard time. Clearly the top 1% cant vote themselfs the leaders, so almost the majority of the ones having hard time must want that they have hard time because they are voting for politics that let it continue. Dosnt make sence to me, someone explain please. The top 1% vote themselves in by controlling the mainstream media and controlling which candidates get the money. If you and I are both running for president, and the top 1% want me in, all they have to do is give me $100 million and I can get my smiling face anywhere I want it in a day. If they don't like what you have to say, you can still run for president, but you won't get very far. And anything you do will be criticized and trashed by the media because the commercials pay for the tv and the commercials are bought by top 1% -- major corporations. Ever seen V for Vendetta? Did you read 1984? Basically these stories are a more extreme version of what already exists. Most United States citizens are too afraid to change anything, and the cops are typically the stupidest of the populace due to the job requirements being some of the lowest out there. US cops are basically grown up kids who got bullied or abused so much that they value power over compassion. And when they work as a cop they can kill anyone holding a gun without much justice being brought on them. | ||
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
Not bringing the information of this 10 days occupation on the mass media is a crime and it's funny how some americans can criticize China for doing the exact same thing without realising the same shit is happening in their homeland. Elections in this democracy are ruled by press campaign (money). So the richer will get more influence. And the one with good ideas but no financial support gets the right to be ridiculised on some stupid TV shows where the interviewers are totally biased (Ron Paul... ?). I used to love america, this has always been the country where I wanted to live. What is it becoming ? I'm scared, The situation is more fucked up than what I can possibly conceive. Americans citizens FIGHTING !!! | ||
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