On July 15 2011 10:07 Nothingtosay wrote: It is no secret that like many fields e-sports is currently a male dominated arena. While I would have a hard time believing that the vast majority of people wish for e-sports to remain this way; I believe that the actions of the community don't reflect a desire to inject more females into the culture of e-sports. Several recent events have intrigued me enough to the point that I feel that it would helpful to see what other memebers of the community feel about the matter.
Please be aware that I am not personally attacking any individual in this thread especially considering the fact that they are not responsible for the actions of TL.
The primary events that sparked this thread where the creation of two fan clubs that personally view as extremely premature. Namely the Lindsey Sporrer fanclub and the slayers_eve fan club. IN all honesty besides being born female what have either of these people done to warrant a fan club at all? The sporrer fanclub has 53 pages in 3 days, the day9 fan club in comparison has 134 pages and has been active for over one year.
Do people not realize that the undeserved reverence and vigilant e-staring ( I use staring instead of stalking because I don't believe it has even come close to being appropriate for that term) is one of the reason why women are driven from this industry and other ones like it? If you treat women just like anyone else I guarantee more would be willing to participate in e-sports. The reason why many girls are afraid of even letting people know that they are female online is because of all the fervent attention it will bring upon them. I'm sure that the mmo players among all ave heard the female members of their guild complaining about what happens when people on their server/realm/world w/e you call it figure out that they are female.
Another thing I'd like to comment on is female only tournaments such as http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=230697 . These do nothing but promote the belief that women cannot compete with men in e-sports which to me seems to be nothing but utter ridiculousness. E-sports are for the most part mental activities the physical requirement is not high enough that sexual dimorphism would have any significant effect.
If you want more women in esports stop treating them differently. Women if you want to be treated equally then stop voluntarily segregating yourself with things such as female leagues and tournaments.
Do you think things like the relatively quick fan clubs are hurting or helping the problem?
I find this quite true, HOWEVER this is not uncommon in all sports and there is probably a reason for this
Name any sports, theres always a womens only league championship such as the WNBA or the FIFA women's world cup
Its nothing new and Starcraft is beginning to show what other sports have in terms of gender based championships. Yes it can be argued that this is E-Sports, that men don't have the advantage in terms of their structure body over a female which I guess is present in sports.
IT IS NOTHING NEW there have been arguments and debates of gender based tournaments for a lot of sports
So what I want is someone to buildup on my post, what is the real reason for gender base sports tournaments? Is it because of the male biological advantage over female? Is having a girls only e-sports or any sports tournaments truly a bad thing? I disagree, however we dont see a tournament thats called MALES ONLY NBA or anything like this? What are your guys opinions of this?
I agree with you about the male advantage in terms of their body structure, but is their a male advantage in "thinking". Like, are there female only poker tournaments, female only chess tournaments? Do males have obvious advantages (nobody would let a female football team play against a male football team) in terms of strategy, multitasking, speed? If so, then the female only tournaments in sc2 would be justified.
First thing first The F/M will never be even close to balanced due to the simple fact that male usually enjoy competition and games more then female. Since the creation of Chess and Sudoku both male and female played yet out of the hundreds of book written they were all written by males and even now the best chess player are male. Not to mention things such as sports. Second, i played with few girls ( no sc2 but other online games ) they were decent player and up to the point when we had to talk on vent/skype i did not realize they were girls and i did not really care when i found out since we were not playing football or fucking, we were play video games and online there is no difference between a man and a woman. If you can only get more then 20 viewers on your stream if you show your cleavage then expect to get stalked ( many of you know the female players im talking about so i won't give names ) then expect to get stalked by some kids that are watching your stream.
Another thing I'd like to comment on is female only tournaments such as http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=230697 . These do nothing but promote the belief that women cannot compete with men in e-sports which to me seems to be nothing but utter ridiculousness. E-sports are for the most part mental activities the physical requirement is not high enough that sexual dimorphism would have any significant effect.
I don't understand this viewpoint at all. Isn't this a problem you have? I only see a group of people that want to have fun and compete with each other. You might have a point if women could only enter those tournaments or if they are organized in a way to directly appeal to a male demographic. None which are true in this case. People should just lighten up.
On July 15 2011 10:07 Nothingtosay wrote: It is no secret that like many fields e-sports is currently a male dominated arena. While I would have a hard time believing that the vast majority of people wish for e-sports to remain this way; I believe that the actions of the community don't reflect a desire to inject more females into the culture of e-sports. Several recent events have intrigued me enough to the point that I feel that it would helpful to see what other memebers of the community feel about the matter.
Please be aware that I am not personally attacking any individual in this thread especially considering the fact that they are not responsible for the actions of TL.
The primary events that sparked this thread where the creation of two fan clubs that personally view as extremely premature. Namely the Lindsey Sporrer fanclub and the slayers_eve fan club. IN all honesty besides being born female what have either of these people done to warrant a fan club at all? The sporrer fanclub has 53 pages in 3 days, the day9 fan club in comparison has 134 pages and has been active for over one year.
Do people not realize that the undeserved reverence and vigilant e-staring ( I use staring instead of stalking because I don't believe it has even come close to being appropriate for that term) is one of the reason why women are driven from this industry and other ones like it? If you treat women just like anyone else I guarantee more would be willing to participate in e-sports. The reason why many girls are afraid of even letting people know that they are female online is because of all the fervent attention it will bring upon them. I'm sure that the mmo players among all ave heard the female members of their guild complaining about what happens when people on their server/realm/world w/e you call it figure out that they are female.
Another thing I'd like to comment on is female only tournaments such as http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=230697 . These do nothing but promote the belief that women cannot compete with men in e-sports which to me seems to be nothing but utter ridiculousness. E-sports are for the most part mental activities the physical requirement is not high enough that sexual dimorphism would have any significant effect.
If you want more women in esports stop treating them differently. Women if you want to be treated equally then stop voluntarily segregating yourself with things such as female leagues and tournaments.
Do you think things like the relatively quick fan clubs are hurting or helping the problem?
I find this quite true, HOWEVER this is not uncommon in all sports and there is probably a reason for this
Name any sports, theres always a womens only league championship such as the WNBA or the FIFA women's world cup
Its nothing new and Starcraft is beginning to show what other sports have in terms of gender based championships. Yes it can be argued that this is E-Sports, that men don't have the advantage in terms of their structure body over a female which I guess is present in sports.
IT IS NOTHING NEW there have been arguments and debates of gender based tournaments for a lot of sports
So what I want is someone to buildup on my post, what is the real reason for gender base sports tournaments? Is it because of the male biological advantage over female? Is having a girls only e-sports or any sports tournaments truly a bad thing? I disagree, however we dont see a tournament thats called MALES ONLY NBA or anything like this? What are your guys opinions of this?
I agree with you about the male advantage in terms of their body structure, but is their a male advantage in "thinking". Like, are there female only poker tournaments, female only chess tournaments? Do males have obvious advantages (nobody would let a female football team play against a male football team) in terms of strategy, multitasking, speed? If so, then the female only tournaments in sc2 would be justified.
Female poker players are good! There are plenty of Female poker players on the WSOP tour and EP tour!! Very good ones, whoever mentioned woman arent good at poker needs to go do some research!! Woman Poker Player
She is ranked 33rd on 2011 rich list! That says alot considering she is higher than people like Daniel Nergranu etc etc! Woman are equal in Poker!
On July 15 2011 11:54 NeverGG wrote:Honestly, I'd love to see what would happen if a girl who isn't considered 'hot' went pro and was good at what she did. It'd definitely be a good gauge of which (male) members of TL are judging us on more than our faces/bodies. (Aka. Who is worth being friends with.)
Imagine if an average looking girl won the GSL.
I bet R1CH has a panic button at TL HQ ready for that LR thread.
Let's be real; I want women to succeed in E-sports as much as the next guy. However, when was the last time IN ANY game one has actually produced results?
On July 15 2011 11:02 Trajan98 wrote: Women can compete equally in things such as politics but in gaming and sports they are at a disadvantage. Anything that involves reaction times, physical speed and strength men will excel at over women because men have evolved over millions of years as hunters.
The last sentence must be a joke, right?
Like in BW (for example, TossGirl), I think they should keep the genders integrated in tournaments. SC2 doesn't require that much physical strength, it requires reflexes. Also, Females are as smart as males.
I agree partly with the OP on the attention females receive. However, I don't see what's wrong with giving them extra attention. It won't scare them away, it will welcome them, unless they are too scared to talk to the opposite gender.
On July 15 2011 10:07 Nothingtosay wrote: It is no secret that like many fields e-sports is currently a male dominated arena. While I would have a hard time believing that the vast majority of people wish for e-sports to remain this way; I believe that the actions of the community don't reflect a desire to inject more females into the culture of e-sports. Several recent events have intrigued me enough to the point that I feel that it would helpful to see what other memebers of the community feel about the matter.
Please be aware that I am not personally attacking any individual in this thread especially considering the fact that they are not responsible for the actions of TL.
The primary events that sparked this thread where the creation of two fan clubs that personally view as extremely premature. Namely the Lindsey Sporrer fanclub and the slayers_eve fan club. IN all honesty besides being born female what have either of these people done to warrant a fan club at all? The sporrer fanclub has 53 pages in 3 days, the day9 fan club in comparison has 134 pages and has been active for over one year.
Do people not realize that the undeserved reverence and vigilant e-staring ( I use staring instead of stalking because I don't believe it has even come close to being appropriate for that term) is one of the reason why women are driven from this industry and other ones like it? If you treat women just like anyone else I guarantee more would be willing to participate in e-sports. The reason why many girls are afraid of even letting people know that they are female online is because of all the fervent attention it will bring upon them. I'm sure that the mmo players among all ave heard the female members of their guild complaining about what happens when people on their server/realm/world w/e you call it figure out that they are female.
Another thing I'd like to comment on is female only tournaments such as http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=230697 . These do nothing but promote the belief that women cannot compete with men in e-sports which to me seems to be nothing but utter ridiculousness. E-sports are for the most part mental activities the physical requirement is not high enough that sexual dimorphism would have any significant effect.
If you want more women in esports stop treating them differently. Women if you want to be treated equally then stop voluntarily segregating yourself with things such as female leagues and tournaments.
Do you think things like the relatively quick fan clubs are hurting or helping the problem?
I find this quite true, HOWEVER this is not uncommon in all sports and there is probably a reason for this
Name any sports, theres always a womens only league championship such as the WNBA or the FIFA women's world cup
Its nothing new and Starcraft is beginning to show what other sports have in terms of gender based championships. Yes it can be argued that this is E-Sports, that men don't have the advantage in terms of their structure body over a female which I guess is present in sports.
IT IS NOTHING NEW there have been arguments and debates of gender based tournaments for a lot of sports
So what I want is someone to buildup on my post, what is the real reason for gender base sports tournaments? Is it because of the male biological advantage over female? Is having a girls only e-sports or any sports tournaments truly a bad thing? I disagree, however we dont see a tournament thats called MALES ONLY NBA or anything like this? What are your guys opinions of this?
I agree with you about the male advantage in terms of their body structure, but is their a male advantage in "thinking". Like, are there female only poker tournaments, female only chess tournaments? Do males have obvious advantages (nobody would let a female football team play against a male football team) in terms of strategy, multitasking, speed? If so, then the female only tournaments in sc2 would be justified.
Female poker players are good! There are plenty of Female poker players on the WSOP tour and EP tour!! Very good ones, whoever mentioned woman arent good at poker needs to go do some research!! Woman Poker Player
She is ranked 33rd on 2011 rich list! That says alot considering she is higher than people like Daniel Nergranu etc etc! Woman are equal in Poker!
I dont think anybody said woman aren't good at poker and i dont know if my post maybe came off a little offensive, and if it did, it wasn't meant that way. =)
I was just asking, if males have advantages in terms of thinking (like poker, chess, any sport that doesn't involve physical attributes) over women. So if there's no skill difference between women and men in those regards, i dont get the female only sc2 tournaments.
On July 15 2011 10:07 Nothingtosay wrote: It is no secret that like many fields e-sports is currently a male dominated arena. While I would have a hard time believing that the vast majority of people wish for e-sports to remain this way; I believe that the actions of the community don't reflect a desire to inject more females into the culture of e-sports. Several recent events have intrigued me enough to the point that I feel that it would helpful to see what other memebers of the community feel about the matter.
Please be aware that I am not personally attacking any individual in this thread especially considering the fact that they are not responsible for the actions of TL.
The primary events that sparked this thread where the creation of two fan clubs that personally view as extremely premature. Namely the Lindsey Sporrer fanclub and the slayers_eve fan club. IN all honesty besides being born female what have either of these people done to warrant a fan club at all? The sporrer fanclub has 53 pages in 3 days, the day9 fan club in comparison has 134 pages and has been active for over one year.
Do people not realize that the undeserved reverence and vigilant e-staring ( I use staring instead of stalking because I don't believe it has even come close to being appropriate for that term) is one of the reason why women are driven from this industry and other ones like it? If you treat women just like anyone else I guarantee more would be willing to participate in e-sports. The reason why many girls are afraid of even letting people know that they are female online is because of all the fervent attention it will bring upon them. I'm sure that the mmo players among all ave heard the female members of their guild complaining about what happens when people on their server/realm/world w/e you call it figure out that they are female.
Another thing I'd like to comment on is female only tournaments such as http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=230697 . These do nothing but promote the belief that women cannot compete with men in e-sports which to me seems to be nothing but utter ridiculousness. E-sports are for the most part mental activities the physical requirement is not high enough that sexual dimorphism would have any significant effect.
If you want more women in esports stop treating them differently. Women if you want to be treated equally then stop voluntarily segregating yourself with things such as female leagues and tournaments.
Do you think things like the relatively quick fan clubs are hurting or helping the problem?
I find this quite true, HOWEVER this is not uncommon in all sports and there is probably a reason for this
Name any sports, theres always a womens only league championship such as the WNBA or the FIFA women's world cup
Its nothing new and Starcraft is beginning to show what other sports have in terms of gender based championships. Yes it can be argued that this is E-Sports, that men don't have the advantage in terms of their structure body over a female which I guess is present in sports.
IT IS NOTHING NEW there have been arguments and debates of gender based tournaments for a lot of sports
So what I want is someone to buildup on my post, what is the real reason for gender base sports tournaments? Is it because of the male biological advantage over female? Is having a girls only e-sports or any sports tournaments truly a bad thing? I disagree, however we dont see a tournament thats called MALES ONLY NBA or anything like this? What are your guys opinions of this?
I agree with you about the male advantage in terms of their body structure, but is their a male advantage in "thinking". Like, are there female only poker tournaments, female only chess tournaments? Do males have obvious advantages (nobody would let a female football team play against a male football team) in terms of strategy, multitasking, speed? If so, then the female only tournaments in sc2 would be justified.
Female poker players are good! There are plenty of Female poker players on the WSOP tour and EP tour!! Very good ones, whoever mentioned woman arent good at poker needs to go do some research!! Woman Poker Player
She is ranked 33rd on 2011 rich list! That says alot considering she is higher than people like Daniel Nergranu etc etc! Woman are equal in Poker!
I dont think anybody said woman aren't good at poker and i dont know if my post maybe came off a little offensive, and if it did, it wasn't meant that way. =)
I was just asking, if males have advantages in terms of thinking (like poker, chess, any sport that doesn't involve physical attributes) over women. So if there's no skill difference between women and men in those regards, i dont get the female only sc2 tournaments.
Ahh good ^_^ but thats a different issue i think. That is the women socialists attempting to prove womens competition on its own is "good" enough to draw in the audiences of males and females to the same level as the "just" male scene. For example in England there has been a huge debate about Mens football vs Womens football, quite stupid i know. Male football in england is dubbed the best "league" in the world to watch, having seen the other leagues (maybe im a bit biast who knows) i would agree that the Premier League is better than any other league on the amount of high levels team it has (About 5/6 high level teams). But the women think that they are good enough to compete with the premier league viewings and male football ratings by making there own leagues and competing on that level. However just like our national football team the womens team is as shit as ours ^_^ and womens football in general is just not up to the standards as men, maybe because physical differences maybe not. But women fight for the right to do what men can do and think they can do it better, this will never change, all men can do is "accept" women will always "challenge" us on anything we do, be it how much we can drink, to how hard we can challenge ourselves mentally and physically.
On July 15 2011 10:07 Nothingtosay wrote: It is no secret that like many fields e-sports is currently a male dominated arena. While I would have a hard time believing that the vast majority of people wish for e-sports to remain this way; I believe that the actions of the community don't reflect a desire to inject more females into the culture of e-sports. Several recent events have intrigued me enough to the point that I feel that it would helpful to see what other memebers of the community feel about the matter.
Please be aware that I am not personally attacking any individual in this thread especially considering the fact that they are not responsible for the actions of TL.
The primary events that sparked this thread where the creation of two fan clubs that personally view as extremely premature. Namely the Lindsey Sporrer fanclub and the slayers_eve fan club. IN all honesty besides being born female what have either of these people done to warrant a fan club at all? The sporrer fanclub has 53 pages in 3 days, the day9 fan club in comparison has 134 pages and has been active for over one year.
Do people not realize that the undeserved reverence and vigilant e-staring ( I use staring instead of stalking because I don't believe it has even come close to being appropriate for that term) is one of the reason why women are driven from this industry and other ones like it? If you treat women just like anyone else I guarantee more would be willing to participate in e-sports. The reason why many girls are afraid of even letting people know that they are female online is because of all the fervent attention it will bring upon them. I'm sure that the mmo players among all ave heard the female members of their guild complaining about what happens when people on their server/realm/world w/e you call it figure out that they are female.
Another thing I'd like to comment on is female only tournaments such as http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=230697 . These do nothing but promote the belief that women cannot compete with men in e-sports which to me seems to be nothing but utter ridiculousness. E-sports are for the most part mental activities the physical requirement is not high enough that sexual dimorphism would have any significant effect.
If you want more women in esports stop treating them differently. Women if you want to be treated equally then stop voluntarily segregating yourself with things such as female leagues and tournaments.
Do you think things like the relatively quick fan clubs are hurting or helping the problem?
I find this quite true, HOWEVER this is not uncommon in all sports and there is probably a reason for this
Name any sports, theres always a womens only league championship such as the WNBA or the FIFA women's world cup
Its nothing new and Starcraft is beginning to show what other sports have in terms of gender based championships. Yes it can be argued that this is E-Sports, that men don't have the advantage in terms of their structure body over a female which I guess is present in sports.
IT IS NOTHING NEW there have been arguments and debates of gender based tournaments for a lot of sports
So what I want is someone to buildup on my post, what is the real reason for gender base sports tournaments? Is it because of the male biological advantage over female? Is having a girls only e-sports or any sports tournaments truly a bad thing? I disagree, however we dont see a tournament thats called MALES ONLY NBA or anything like this? What are your guys opinions of this?
I agree with you about the male advantage in terms of their body structure, but is their a male advantage in "thinking". Like, are there female only poker tournaments, female only chess tournaments? Do males have obvious advantages (nobody would let a female football team play against a male football team) in terms of strategy, multitasking, speed? If so, then the female only tournaments in sc2 would be justified.
Female poker players are good! There are plenty of Female poker players on the WSOP tour and EP tour!! Very good ones, whoever mentioned woman arent good at poker needs to go do some research!! Woman Poker Player
She is ranked 33rd on 2011 rich list! That says alot considering she is higher than people like Daniel Nergranu etc etc! Woman are equal in Poker!
I dont think anybody said woman aren't good at poker and i dont know if my post maybe came off a little offensive, and if it did, it wasn't meant that way. =)
I was just asking, if males have advantages in terms of thinking (like poker, chess, any sport that doesn't involve physical attributes) over women. So if there's no skill difference between women and men in those regards, i dont get the female only sc2 tournaments.
Ahh good ^_^ but thats a different issue i think. That is the women socialists attempting to prove womens competition on its own is "good" enough to draw in the audiences of males and females to the same level as the "just" male scene. For example in England there has been a huge debate about Mens football vs Womens football, quite stupid i know. Male football in england is dubbed the best "league" in the world to watch, having seen the other leagues (maybe im a bit biast who knows) i would agree that the Premier League is better than any other league on the amount of high levels team it has (About 5/6 high level teams). But the women think that they are good enough to compete with the premier league viewings and male football ratings by making there own leagues and competing on that level. However just like our national football team the womens team is as shit as ours ^_^ and womens football in general is just not up to the standards as men, maybe because physical differences maybe not. But women fight for the right to do what men can do and think they can do it better, this will never change, all men can do is "accept" women will always "challenge" us on anything we do, be it how much we can drink, to how hard we can challenge ourselves mentally and physically.
I (think i) get you. And i think it's good that women try to compete with men in starcraft. But my question is, if women have no preset disadvantage in all those things required to be a good starcraft player, why are there female only tournaments?
If there's no difference in terms of skill, i think female only tournaments will hurt the reputation of female players because the division between men/woman is implying that women can't really compete with men in this game.
Theres nothing stopping women competing if they want to, i personally only know one who plays SC2 and she's currently in bronze, could get to silver if she played more.
After talking to her about playing she actually said that people will play a ladder game with her flirting the whole time, beat her and then just leave the game and give her the win O.o
I think the reason there are not many pro sc2 women playing is because as a whole in the sc2 community women make up less the 1%. I think that esports needs to be advertised more to increase popularity and hopefully get away from the image people have of kids sitting at home with a bag of crisps playing in their own filth.
Women only leagues are not the answer when there aren't enough women playing in the first place
On July 15 2011 11:02 Trajan98 wrote: Women can compete equally in things such as politics but in gaming and sports they are at a disadvantage. Anything that involves reaction times, physical speed and strength men will excel at over women because men have evolved over millions of years as hunters.
Tell me women don't have the dexterity for Starcraft after seeing that...
Though that us extremely impressive, and I doubt that it's a physical problem, that might not be the best example. You can practice a piano piece for days and days until you get it right. I don't consider myself a very fast, dextrous person, but I can pieces that most would consider challenging with my eyes closed simply because i practice them a lot. Starcraft isn't the same type of practice, because you won't be doing the exact same thing every game. It'd be more of a reaction time thing than a a straight up dexterity thing. I don't know what everyone's argument on a woman's reaction v. a man's, but that'd be a more likely scenario.
Regardless, I still find the argument that women are too physically inferior a plausible excuse
On July 15 2011 10:07 Nothingtosay wrote: It is no secret that like many fields e-sports is currently a male dominated arena. While I would have a hard time believing that the vast majority of people wish for e-sports to remain this way; I believe that the actions of the community don't reflect a desire to inject more females into the culture of e-sports. Several recent events have intrigued me enough to the point that I feel that it would helpful to see what other memebers of the community feel about the matter.
Please be aware that I am not personally attacking any individual in this thread especially considering the fact that they are not responsible for the actions of TL.
The primary events that sparked this thread where the creation of two fan clubs that personally view as extremely premature. Namely the Lindsey Sporrer fanclub and the slayers_eve fan club. IN all honesty besides being born female what have either of these people done to warrant a fan club at all? The sporrer fanclub has 53 pages in 3 days, the day9 fan club in comparison has 134 pages and has been active for over one year.
Do people not realize that the undeserved reverence and vigilant e-staring ( I use staring instead of stalking because I don't believe it has even come close to being appropriate for that term) is one of the reason why women are driven from this industry and other ones like it? If you treat women just like anyone else I guarantee more would be willing to participate in e-sports. The reason why many girls are afraid of even letting people know that they are female online is because of all the fervent attention it will bring upon them. I'm sure that the mmo players among all ave heard the female members of their guild complaining about what happens when people on their server/realm/world w/e you call it figure out that they are female.
Another thing I'd like to comment on is female only tournaments such as http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=230697 . These do nothing but promote the belief that women cannot compete with men in e-sports which to me seems to be nothing but utter ridiculousness. E-sports are for the most part mental activities the physical requirement is not high enough that sexual dimorphism would have any significant effect.
If you want more women in esports stop treating them differently. Women if you want to be treated equally then stop voluntarily segregating yourself with things such as female leagues and tournaments.
Do you think things like the relatively quick fan clubs are hurting or helping the problem?
I find this quite true, HOWEVER this is not uncommon in all sports and there is probably a reason for this
Name any sports, theres always a womens only league championship such as the WNBA or the FIFA women's world cup
Its nothing new and Starcraft is beginning to show what other sports have in terms of gender based championships. Yes it can be argued that this is E-Sports, that men don't have the advantage in terms of their structure body over a female which I guess is present in sports.
IT IS NOTHING NEW there have been arguments and debates of gender based tournaments for a lot of sports
So what I want is someone to buildup on my post, what is the real reason for gender base sports tournaments? Is it because of the male biological advantage over female? Is having a girls only e-sports or any sports tournaments truly a bad thing? I disagree, however we dont see a tournament thats called MALES ONLY NBA or anything like this? What are your guys opinions of this?
I agree with you about the male advantage in terms of their body structure, but is their a male advantage in "thinking". Like, are there female only poker tournaments, female only chess tournaments? Do males have obvious advantages (nobody would let a female football team play against a male football team) in terms of strategy, multitasking, speed? If so, then the female only tournaments in sc2 would be justified.
Female poker players are good! There are plenty of Female poker players on the WSOP tour and EP tour!! Very good ones, whoever mentioned woman arent good at poker needs to go do some research!! Woman Poker Player
She is ranked 33rd on 2011 rich list! That says alot considering she is higher than people like Daniel Nergranu etc etc! Woman are equal in Poker!
I dont think anybody said woman aren't good at poker and i dont know if my post maybe came off a little offensive, and if it did, it wasn't meant that way. =)
I was just asking, if males have advantages in terms of thinking (like poker, chess, any sport that doesn't involve physical attributes) over women. So if there's no skill difference between women and men in those regards, i dont get the female only sc2 tournaments.
Ahh good ^_^ but thats a different issue i think. That is the women socialists attempting to prove womens competition on its own is "good" enough to draw in the audiences of males and females to the same level as the "just" male scene. For example in England there has been a huge debate about Mens football vs Womens football, quite stupid i know. Male football in england is dubbed the best "league" in the world to watch, having seen the other leagues (maybe im a bit biast who knows) i would agree that the Premier League is better than any other league on the amount of high levels team it has (About 5/6 high level teams). But the women think that they are good enough to compete with the premier league viewings and male football ratings by making there own leagues and competing on that level. However just like our national football team the womens team is as shit as ours ^_^ and womens football in general is just not up to the standards as men, maybe because physical differences maybe not. But women fight for the right to do what men can do and think they can do it better, this will never change, all men can do is "accept" women will always "challenge" us on anything we do, be it how much we can drink, to how hard we can challenge ourselves mentally and physically.
I (think i) get you. And i think it's good that women try to compete with men in starcraft. But my question is, if women have no preset disadvantage in all those things required to be a good starcraft player, why are there female only tournaments?
If there's no difference in terms of skill, i think female only tournaments will hurt the reputation of female players because the division between men/woman is implying that women can't really compete with men in this game.
Think top 2% of 2 000 000 players, and top 2% of 100 000, who are the best? If anyone has some evidence for a statement like "women think worse" I would really like to see it.
I think the female-only thing is pretty harmless and my guess is that it's mostly meant to draw attention to female gamers and for the players to socialize with other females. I didn't think "they need their own league because they are genetically inferior", maybe others did though and that would be pretty sad.
On July 15 2011 10:26 SirKibbleX wrote: I'll probably use some generalizations and wording that may be kind of iffy in this post. This may sound incredibly sexist, but I don't see 'most' women as possessing the same kind of near-obsessive attraction to difficult problem-solving oriented fields that men do. At least whatever type of personality seems to follow that path seems not to proc in females nearly as frequently. Examples include math/science fields of study (this is backed up by statistics, and pretty obvious) and It's likely something in the female brain chemistry, but obviously not well-understood.
My question (and this is not simply pondering, but nearly academic) is why do men like to play games so much and why do women not? What do women spend their time and obsession on that men do not because of our obsession with competition and sports and problem solving?
I doubt an attractive male in a female-dominated area (geographic or professional/topical) would fail to attract a lot of attention from the females in that field. If starcraft was a university, it would be 99% male and the few females there are would obviously receive a massive amount of attention, it's pretty obvious.
Truth.
Statistics dont lie. Its true that in some fields the gender distribution will cause either gender to receive more attention.
On July 15 2011 11:02 Trajan98 wrote: Women can compete equally in things such as politics but in gaming and sports they are at a disadvantage. Anything that involves reaction times, physical speed and strength men will excel at over women because men have evolved over millions of years as hunters.
Care to provide a source for the reaction time statement? It's not that I don't believe you but that's an intriguing statement which I'd like to see backed up.
On July 15 2011 19:55 Sableyeah wrote: Statistics dont lie. Its true that in some fields the gender distribution will cause either gender to receive more attention.
To be honest, I think the issue runs a lot deeper than just looking at attitudes to women in e-sports. This is an incredibly reductive approach and should likely be reconsidered. The real issue here is with the overtly cisgender-centric viewpoint taken not only by TL, but by the community at large. The problem is that there's a kind of combined hetero-normative environment that promotes a certain view of both players and fans that should really be subjected to further scrutinisation.
Fundamentally, what we need to ask ourselves here is whether or not the issue is with the way in which we approach and perceive female gamers/casters, or with the way in which we approach gender as a particularised phenomenon. Perhaps the quintessence of this can be found in Butler's work on gender theory, which suggests that gender itself is performative, in which case we see that these are individuals who are not only possessed of a particular gender, but also to an extent "performing" that gender.
If we accept a scenario in which that's the case (and who am I to argue?), it seems only fair to accept that those individuals within the community (in this case, TL) are also engaged in a continuous re-interpretation of their own gender/orientation. Given that this is the case, it's hard to criticise fan clubs like those mentioned in the OP without also obliquely critiquing the ideas of gender-as-construct in a fashion that is, perhaps at its core, oppressive (in a gender-as-partial-inculcation sense, at least).
To sum up, this is why I PM love letters to all of the female TL users I encounter.
I had hoped that esports would be a sport which crosses boundaries, in particular countries and genders. You don't need to speak a particular language to be good at esports and there are no physical aspects which benefit males over females. :-/
You'd guess women spend more time around a pc than men do.
Imo it's a cultural thing (aka gaming is for nerds) I have yet to see a woman with a near obessive drive to be the best gamer there ever was.
I do not see why a woman can't get really good at SCII though, it requires reflexes, yes but isn't there evidence that women can multitask better than men can?
Wouldn't better multitasking make for a higher skillceiling?
The reason people like Lindsey Sporrer is not because she is hot or a girl. At least not only. It is the fact that she is so hot and therefore intimidates the nerds she interviews (aaand knows nothing about the game). It produces hilarious awkward situations.
Oh, and I also believe women are just not as competetive as men, genetically. (For safety: Of course women can become competetive blabla, but men have it in their genes to compete. It is normal for men to want to compete, it is normal for women not to want to compete. But you don't have to act according to the norm.)
Anyone could compete, but they'd still have to be relatively good enough to do so, and there's nothing preventing them from doing so if they so wish to.
"E-sports" = video games and there's no advantage for either gender in the realm of video games. What you may be suggesting would only apply to actual sports and not video games.
There's plenty of gamer girls but many of them would choose not to compete or they play some non competitive games/more casual. ( Nakagawa Shouko? )
EPT
