EPTNone of that necessarily justifies the obnoxious playing of music today, but there is some history at play.
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farvacola
United States18840 Posts
None of that necessarily justifies the obnoxious playing of music today, but there is some history at play. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28727 Posts
On July 23 2020 01:13 Simberto wrote: They could also be idiots who suck at empathy. I can totally imagine a train of thought like: I like this music Therefore this music is good Therefore everyone else should also like this music Therefore i am doing them a service by delivering this music to them. I think this is usually the case. Tbh a large majority of the time when someone plays loud music from their phone or whatever, I'm happy about it. Rarely does the music suck hard enough for me to find it bothersome, and I really enjoy whenever someone plays something that I enjoy. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium4979 Posts
A single person littering is rarely a problem. Everyone litters and now the streets are covered in filfth. How do you get from an infinitesimally small to an infinitely large amount? Or rather, to frame it in a real world kind of setting: what makes you go from an insignificant individual doing a thing that we don't approve of, to the entirety of society doing the thing they originally didn't approve of? What kind of leap do you need to make before this happens? This is some serious social fabric that needs to be torn for that to happen. Somethin akin of a behavioral sink perhaps, but still, makes me wonder why people use that argument. It makes no sense at all. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28727 Posts
Littering doesn't really work as an analogy because I've never enjoyed an individual littering. That's behavior that goes from bad but inconsequential when it's done by an individual to bad but consequential when it is done by everybody. Whereas people playing loud music is something I myself (and I'm certainly not alone in this) generally think is good (some conditions, but for example on the bus or walking through a street, I'm totally happy about it - the main determiner is to what degree I like the music). I don't take the train too often anymore, but trains in Norway are divided into loud and quiet sections, if I want quiet I go to the quiet train rather than expect the loud one to be quiet. That prolly isn't a luxury afforded everywhere, but oh well. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On July 23 2020 02:05 Uldridge wrote: This is the kind of thinking I never understood. How do you get from an infinitesimally small to an infinitely large amount? Or rather, to frame it in a real world kind of setting: what makes you go from an insignificant individual doing a thing that we don't approve of, to the entirety of society doing the thing they originally didn't approve of? What kind of leap do you need to make before this happens? This is some serious social fabric that needs to be torn for that to happen. Somethin akin of a behavioral sink perhaps, but still, makes me wonder why people use that argument. It makes no sense at all. It's quite easy actually if you live in a densely populated city. For instance one person standing on the wrong side of the escalator, or one person standing in front of a lift door isn't generally speaking a problem. You can ask them to step aside or move around them and social disapproval will help you. But when everybody does it, it is now a problem. It's easy to say one person doing something that disturbs others isn't a problem, until suddenly everybody does it. I see this everytime I goto a foreign country and suddenly nobody queues or when what I regard as normal regard to other drivers no longer is given the difference is stark. It's not even needed for such a drastic change in location. Within a city it is possible for an entirely clean street and the other to be a dirty. You think an infinitesimally small to an infinitely large amount is a leap. That serious social fabric needs to be torn for that to happen. I see it as a completely normal happenstance. Of course it could simply be the result of disparate wealth levels and cutural changes that come with it, or simply the boundary of changing borough and councils but you seem to beleive that in unlikely, when it is not. Sometimes cultural change is rapid, sometimes it is not. For instance, 10 years ago drink driving used to be tolerated and common in UK. But nowadays almost no-one does it. Whether designated drivers or using taxis. And so everyone benefits. If like Drone says there is a loud and quiet sections on a train, then it is perfectly reasonable to play loud music and talk on the phone loudly. In those sections. I would hope to think that it is unenjoyable to see that behaviour in the quiet sections. There is an element of choice for that happenstance. What then if your normal transportation is packed like sardines? There is no loud or quiet section. If you cannot move and most people have to stand up suddenly lots of things change. Who stands? How do people move to get off and on? Where does the luggage goes? How should groups move? What about children? Should food be eaten and alcoholic drinks allowed? How should people queue to let passengers off first? If a bus holds 2 people, a single person playing music is not a problem if both enjoys the music. Then you have a bus with 100 people, and 50 of them are playing music loudly, that's a big difference. Population density changes the equation of what is tolerable and what is not significantly. | ||
KwarK
United States43350 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28727 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11686 Posts
On July 23 2020 02:36 KwarK wrote: People should make an effort not to intrude upon the lives of others in shared public spaces, especially those that people need to use such as public transport. It’s just basic courtesy. Not playing loud music is right there with showering so you don’t smell like shit. If we’re forced by circumstances to share the same space then I expect people to act with the same sense of apologetic awkwardness at the forced intimacy as I would. I am very British though. Not a British thing imo. The more considerate everyone is of everyone else, the better life gets for everyone in the shared spaces. It is just basic sensibility which everyone should understand. Don't force stuff onto people without their consent. Not everyone likes your music. And even those who do maybe don't even want to listen to music right now. If i wanted to listen to music, i would probably be doing that already. Because i have a phone, too. Everyone has one. And the nice people even have headphones. There is a bunch of other similar stuff, too. When you walk through a crowded area, make some effort to not run into other people. If multiple people are waiting for something, try to form an orderly queue. When in a library, you are quiet. And there are easy ways around the problem if you care to put in minimum effort. Just wear headphones. Easy. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9261 Posts
On July 23 2020 02:44 Liquid`Drone wrote: Meh, I think a lot of people are just much too easily annoyed. I mean, there's a balance to be found between 'pleases yourself' and 'annoys others', but frankly, I often think 'work on your ability to not find this behavior annoying' is a better answer to stuff like this than 'don't do anything you might perceive someone might find annoying even if you yourself like it'. And in general (although, again, this is certainly contextual), I think 'speaking loudly on the phone in the bus' or 'playing music from my phone while walking down the street even though other people can hear it' or 'singing along with music I am listening to on my headphones even though I'm no good at singing' fits into the former group - stuff that normal functional adults should be able to tolerate just fine. This is an issue of 'temporarily being annoyed', it's not spraying peanut dust on random strangers or throwing garbage into nature. It's not the music or loud speaking that's the most annoying, it's the person's disregard for people around them. The irritating sounds aren't that bad on their own, but they're making the experience worse by being a constant reminder that you have to tolerate a person like that near you. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28727 Posts
Just relax it. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9261 Posts
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Silvanel
Poland4736 Posts
On a slightly different note i have a neighboor who listens to loud music and also sings to it. Sometimes i cannot sleep because of him, he is old and has tottaly different sleep shedule than i have. Sometimes he starts singing at 4-6 a.m. There is no reasoning with him, he IS kinda mental, he was forcefully confined to mental instutution by court for about a year but they have realesed him since. Please trust me when i say that You can make someones life worse by being laud. This has happened to me. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On July 23 2020 03:47 Liquid`Drone wrote: That sounds like looking for a reason to get annoyed rather than looking for a reason not to get annoyed, which I again find a much more rational approach to 'strangers in public'. Honestly, I have a lot more sympathy for someone who is genuinely annoyed by the shitty music or obnoxiously stupid conversation than someone who is 'annoyed by the constant reminder that you have to tolerate a person like that near you'. Just relax it. Or they can have some regard for other people and turn down their volume and use headphones like everybody else on the bus does. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10823 Posts
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domane
Canada1606 Posts
Would rationalizing the paranoia by thinking that reacting negatively will only make things worse (acting out against people with ill intentions who will only use it against them) be a way to cope with the situation (band-aid solution)? | ||
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thePunGun
598 Posts
Because even though they may seem irrational, to the person affected by them, they are very real and probably caused by some kind of trauma in their past. Not to sound overly dramatic, but I'd strongly advise seeking out professional help. Because (depending on the severity of the trauma) untreated anxiety disorders only worsen over time. | ||
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AbouSV
Germany1278 Posts
Also, what about when going hiking in a trail on a quiet moutain, and still having people with music in speaker? To me that's also an example of total disregard of others, and just imposing your own world to your surroundings. On a side note: the more I like the music the more I'll actually dislike hearing from a phone speaker in a generally noisy environment. That's sounds disgusting, come on! | ||
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Zambrah
United States7387 Posts
A billionaire must work minimum wage until he makes as much money as he had in life. So starting at current US federal minimum wage, and doing your best to account for general living expenses in Seattle, Washington where Amazon is based, roughly how long would it take Jeff Bezos to make his current net worth? | ||
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