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Simberto
Germany11839 Posts
None of what i said implies any of what you just said it would imply, and i can't even understand how you would get the idea that it does. And neither did i ever change a definition. I was very consistent in what i was saying, you just didn't understand what i was saying and thus claim that it changed. Your argument does not have anything to do with what i am saying, and yet you claim it does. I am done. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
What i am saying is the following: If you consent, it is no longer rape. No matter what is happening, it is not rape, because you are consenting is an argument from ignorance and if i were to ask you to describe such a scenario you'll see that differences in definitions or discrepancies in consent will appear on your side. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5161 Posts
How does one consent to rape exactly? When rape is the sexual act against someone without consent, how does rape with consent look like? And how is consenting, and then not being able to call it rape an argument of ignorance? Sure you may want to retract your consent during the act, but it's better to see consent as a continuous gradient parameter than a discrete one in that case. Literally the first sentence on the wiki regarding rape: Rape is a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse or other forms of sexual penetration perpetrated against a person without that person's consent. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
On December 16 2016 21:10 Uldridge wrote: i use what some could consider mental gymnastics, but for the sake of the argument:@xM(Z How does one consent to rape exactly? When rape is the sexual act against someone without consent, how does rape with consent look like? And how is consenting, and then not being able to call it rape an argument of ignorance? Sure you may want to retract your consent during the act, but it's better to see consent as a continuous gradient parameter than a discrete one in that case. Literally the first sentence on the wiki regarding rape: Rape is a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse or other forms of sexual penetration perpetrated against a person without that person's consent. - i see consent given, as being a specific point in time after which there is no way back, you reap what you sow. (you can't un-kill yourself and you can't un-rape yourself by changing consent mid way; the option is no longer there). rape is an action in time, you either consent to all or to none. if you stop it mid way by changing your consent, it is no longer rape. i see Simbertos argument as allowing a constant consent state from beginning to the end. theoretical example: he agrees to be raped by me. the first thing i do is drug him. he will then argue that he is no longer able to give consent and everything ends; he doesn't get raped because he withdraws his consent but i wouldn't care(for argument's sake obviously). | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22373 Posts
On December 16 2016 21:29 xM(Z wrote: i use what some could consider mental gymnastics, but for the sake of the argument: - i see consent given, as being a specific point in time after which there is no way back, you reap what you sow. (you can't un-kill yourself and you can't un-rape yourself by changing consent mid way; the option is no longer there). rape is an action in time, you either consent to all or to none. if you stop it mid way by changing your consent, it is no longer rape. i see Simbertos argument as allowing a constant consent state from beginning to the end. theoretical example: he agrees to be raped by me. the first thing i do is drug him. he will then argue that he is no longer able to give consent and everything ends; he doesn't get raped because he withdraws his consent but i wouldn't care. Consent is not a 'no way back' commitment and can be withdrawn at any time during the act, making further action illegal. Your basic premise is already false | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
On December 16 2016 21:36 Gorsameth wrote: well then, i want to see you withdrawing your consent after you're dead(in the assisted suicide case). Consent is not a 'no way back' commitment and can be withdrawn at any time during the act, making further action illegal. Your basic premise is already false you people fail to see that the definition of rape is made in hindsight(it needs to happen, the whole of it) and as such, fail to properly apply it in foresight(and that is what i call you changing the definition of the word). | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22373 Posts
On December 16 2016 21:40 xM(Z wrote: well then, i want to see you withdrawing your consent after you're dead(in the assisted suicide case). you people fail to see that the definition of rape is made in hindsight(it needs to happen, the whole of it) and as such, fail to properly apply it in foresight(and that is what i call you changing the definition of the word). I don't care about your opinion or whatever fantasy construct you use to explain your opinion. The legal definition of consent is quite clear and not what you are using. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
i'd like to note though that some/most(?) philosophers think that an authentic self which is needed for consent doesn't even exist. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5161 Posts
How can you agree to rape? Rape is intrinsically an action you don't agree with. So how does your example even make any sense? | ||
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
This is not one of those times lol. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22373 Posts
On December 16 2016 21:54 xM(Z wrote: legality has nothing to do with the argument since it was theoretical only. you are free to legally define it however you like. i'd like to note though that some/most(?) philosophers think that an authentic self which is needed for consent doesn't even exist. I'm glad we finally got to the point where you admit to discussing an idea using your own definition of words and then being surprised when everyone else who uses the normal definition of those words disagrees with you. I think we're done here. ps. I have assigned custom definitions to every word in this post. It now means whatever I think it should mean at the time. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
On December 16 2016 21:59 Uldridge wrote: you don't get time and hindsight vs foresight. Wait wait wait... how do you see rape? How can you agree to rape? Rape is intrinsically an action you don't agree with. So how does your example even make any sense? you can only consent in hindsight(as per a preread definition or your own expectations of something) but not in foresight(as per your rapist definition of it because that will always be uncertain to you). | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
This thread is - amazingly - not even locked. Can't you just move your deep discussion over there? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18292 Posts
On December 16 2016 22:14 Gorsameth wrote: I'm glad we finally got to the point where you admit to discussing an idea using your own definition of words and then being surprised when everyone else who uses the normal definition of those words disagrees with you. I think we're done here. ps. I have assigned custom definitions to every word in this post. It now means whatever I think it should mean at the time. I read it as "I want to eat bananas with rainbow frosting". Was I right? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Ayaz2810
United States2763 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18292 Posts
On December 16 2016 23:15 Ayaz2810 wrote: I haven't checked this thread for days, and the stupid rape discussion is still ongoing? This thread is becoming a real downer. Clear case of TL withdrawal. The stupid rape discussion only started yesterday, so if you truly hadn't checked the thread in days, you wouldn't even have known it had ever started. What you meant is that you hadn't checked the thread in hours. Much self-control!  | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5161 Posts
When will the first cyborgs roam our planet? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18292 Posts
On December 16 2016 23:19 Uldridge wrote: I think it's been only 1 day? However, this theme seems to pop up every so often, and it's kind of annoying.. Sadly, I indulge in these discussions haha When will the first cyborgs roam our planet? They already do, by the millions (everybody with a prosthetic limb or a pacemaker)! | ||
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