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On October 18 2016 13:19 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 08:47 FiWiFaKi wrote:On October 18 2016 08:29 Cascade wrote:On October 18 2016 07:38 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I want to shift the topic a little bit now, dunno if it'll catch on though.
The internet makes for some very interesting interaction, in which applying the conventional rules of human conversation leads to very poor discussion. The point that I was to specifically address is that when talking to your peers, for a thoughtful conversation, you usually shouldn't jump to the conclusion of you're wrong, unqualified, stupid, etc.
In the real world this makes plenty of sense, you're surrounded by peers of whom you can assess their age, their education level and so forth, and when they're in line with what you'd call an educated person you can associate yourself with, you might enjoy a discussion with them.
But parties that don't meet your standard, whether that's children/teenagers, a drunk first nations on the train, a homeless person, people from other countries that have a poor education system, etc... You'd probably not put yourself into a situation where you'd have a discussion with them, or if you did, maybe you'd take the conversation like-heartedly, because what they're saying is nonsense, and you're just trying to be nice.
But come to any forum on the internet, let's use TL as an example... And you just have to assume that this person is someone you'd converse with in real life, while it may be someone who'd never be allowed into your conversation circle in the real world (you'd turn away, not have a conversation until you met some other people, etc). But on the internet, on a forum like TL everyone is allowed to comment in any discussion. It makes for an interesting dynamic, because really you can't get banned for teamliquid unless your doing something "bad", usually this can only be done if you're intentionally trying to sabotage the conversation with spam, advertising, all caps, memes, etc, but more or less, anyone who wishes to participate in discussion is allowed to due so, even if they're talking out of their ass, don't know what their saying, etc - there's no rule saying this post isn't thoughtful enough, so your post will be deleted, of course that's very difficult to do, especially doing it on an objective set of criteria.
I hope you guys understand what I'm getting at - sometimes there's massive asymmetry in the intelligence and knowledge of the users (actually every thread in TL general really), and I believe it's the primary factor of why there is an upper limit on the discussion quality of a public forum.
So my question for you guys would be how feasible would it be to ask for and possibly verify some other requirements for some theoretical forum. Currently TL displays country, which hopefully people are honest about, that gives some insight into what kind of concepts and living conditions this person might be familiar with. There's only so much you can read into from it, but location of primary education can be fairly significant imo.
So what about displaying more information? Particularly, some of:
-Age
-Sex and sexual orientation
-Race
-Religion
-Income
-Industry/company/career
-Education/What Degree
-IQ (1 attempt at an online IQ test after 500 posts, maybe 1 re-entry allowed every year)
-Weight/height/bfp
Just to list a few. Before you say anything, I know I know, it opens a huge door for discrimination, but this is a forum that takes time to create an account, and is closely moderated... Akin to the real world if you will, so rampant discrimination should not happen. In the real world you're given some of these factors before you engage in discussion to aid you, so why not on the internet? Or do you guys believe that conversation on the internet is more conductive for transport of thoughtful ideas (maybe).
Verification could be by submitting your driver's license when you sign up for example (with certain fields covered with paper), and in the photo of your ID that you take, you'd have to say "for teamliquid" for example, so you can't just take one from the internet, or just make it a larger hassle to do. Or at least, make this fields optional to fill out, I have no shame in telling people I'm a 22 y/o white male from Canada, hard agnostic, straight, relationship, unemployed, engg uni degree, 18%bfp, IQ145... They can use that information how they will, it can only help them, so long as they're not making statements like "because you're white you wouldn't understand", or they have a history of only replying by berating black posters, etc.
Do you guys think this could have any positive effect at all, or be useful every for online conversation? It'd have the advantage over linkedin/facebook where your identity is unknown to other posters, so you can be liberal (lol, conservative is probably a more accurate word for it nowadays) with your thoughts, but people could also learn a bit about you before they post, and make some stereotypes and use some of their preconceived notions before spending hours of their time discussing with someone who is a waste of time. Anyway, I know stereotypes aren't great, but all people use them subconsciously (or consciously) all the time, and they prove to be a great help and time saver. As you say, huge window for discrimination, and as you show yourself, it just turns into a penis size contest. "I got higher IQ than you, so you are wrong." No thanks, go back to MENSA and keep that crap there. If you want a discussion with experts only, there are forums for that within each field. Go there. I find the mixed level part of the beauty of TL. Experts get some insight into how "normal" people think, and "normal" people can get an angle from experts of whatever field is being discussion. Sometimes I wish that the normal people would realise that they are indeed not experts, but I think even the (mostly unfounded) confidence of normal people is useful to see for an expert. It's a bit of a reality check I think.  The list of properties you suggest is more appropriate for a dating site I feel. I don't want my perception of what other people write to be clouded by a host of prejudice from age/gender/race/whatever. If someone is an expert on what they are talking about, the usually say so, and that's all I need to know. All I WANT to know. IQ is definitely one of those more iffy ones, but I think that'd be one of the first rules in the forum, same way as don't be racist on most forums now would be. You'd hope that people would be intelligent enough to realize that IQ can only tell so much, and that'd quickly become the norm, and any others trying to use that information otherwise would be scolded by the others appropriately. I'm not really after an expert vs expert discussion, just a way to asses someone's "cred" before I post. Currently, my only system I have is a few names blacklisted in certain threads which I just won't reply to... Outside of that when I look at a stranger, the country tells me something, and then I try to infer as much as I can from join date and post count. High post count and recent join date is usually a bad sign in my head (statistically speaking anyway), less than 50 posts I won't ever commit a serious reply to for example, especially when they're being questionable, because often just some lag in them getting banned. Like for example this topic here with the cars, I don't claim to be an expert, and really, I don't think there's anyone out there who's going to be an expert on this - even if you're working on Google car, there's a good chance that their opinion won't be more thought out than someone here (if someone is asking help for a math problem, that's a different situation). More information about the people you talk would at least for me, allow to create better relies, tailor better for my audience, save everyone some time, etc. I'd consider myself a fairly average slightly nerdy computer Joe in many ways, and I think it would improve my experience having discussions on the internet, and since I think there's plenty of people out there similar to me, it should have a place at least on some forums on the internet, but I don't see it frequently at all. You're a white straight male, as am I. I don't think either of us really understand how it is being discriminated against, but I think I've at least realised that I don't know. You're a fair bit younger as well, which probably is part of it. Nonetheless, being forced to wear your source of discrimination on your account is in principle similar to the Nazis forcing Jews to wear the star to be recognised. I'm not saying that your a nazi or that you suggest this with the intention of discriminating anyone. I just think that you're not aware of what it is like to be discriminated. Most of the properties you suggest are discriminated against on one end of the spectrum, and they will be here on TL as well, consciously or subconsciously or both. So let's give the women, homosexuals and coloured people a break from discrimination at least here on TL, what do you think?
Also, don't for a moment think that higher intelligence and/or education necessarily lead to better discussions. I have seen an amazing threadline where two physics professors flame each others (Of course those are very funny types of flames, including claims by both that the other doesn't even understand special relativity)
Furthermore, i know that i wouldn't sign up for a forum that would require me to submit large amounts of data to verify who i am for fun.
I can imagine doing so for something work related, or some other forum that talks about stuff regarding my profession, but i wouldn't do it just for casual discussion.
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On October 18 2016 14:20 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 13:19 Cascade wrote:On October 18 2016 08:47 FiWiFaKi wrote:On October 18 2016 08:29 Cascade wrote:On October 18 2016 07:38 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I want to shift the topic a little bit now, dunno if it'll catch on though.
The internet makes for some very interesting interaction, in which applying the conventional rules of human conversation leads to very poor discussion. The point that I was to specifically address is that when talking to your peers, for a thoughtful conversation, you usually shouldn't jump to the conclusion of you're wrong, unqualified, stupid, etc.
In the real world this makes plenty of sense, you're surrounded by peers of whom you can assess their age, their education level and so forth, and when they're in line with what you'd call an educated person you can associate yourself with, you might enjoy a discussion with them.
But parties that don't meet your standard, whether that's children/teenagers, a drunk first nations on the train, a homeless person, people from other countries that have a poor education system, etc... You'd probably not put yourself into a situation where you'd have a discussion with them, or if you did, maybe you'd take the conversation like-heartedly, because what they're saying is nonsense, and you're just trying to be nice.
But come to any forum on the internet, let's use TL as an example... And you just have to assume that this person is someone you'd converse with in real life, while it may be someone who'd never be allowed into your conversation circle in the real world (you'd turn away, not have a conversation until you met some other people, etc). But on the internet, on a forum like TL everyone is allowed to comment in any discussion. It makes for an interesting dynamic, because really you can't get banned for teamliquid unless your doing something "bad", usually this can only be done if you're intentionally trying to sabotage the conversation with spam, advertising, all caps, memes, etc, but more or less, anyone who wishes to participate in discussion is allowed to due so, even if they're talking out of their ass, don't know what their saying, etc - there's no rule saying this post isn't thoughtful enough, so your post will be deleted, of course that's very difficult to do, especially doing it on an objective set of criteria.
I hope you guys understand what I'm getting at - sometimes there's massive asymmetry in the intelligence and knowledge of the users (actually every thread in TL general really), and I believe it's the primary factor of why there is an upper limit on the discussion quality of a public forum.
So my question for you guys would be how feasible would it be to ask for and possibly verify some other requirements for some theoretical forum. Currently TL displays country, which hopefully people are honest about, that gives some insight into what kind of concepts and living conditions this person might be familiar with. There's only so much you can read into from it, but location of primary education can be fairly significant imo.
So what about displaying more information? Particularly, some of:
-Age
-Sex and sexual orientation
-Race
-Religion
-Income
-Industry/company/career
-Education/What Degree
-IQ (1 attempt at an online IQ test after 500 posts, maybe 1 re-entry allowed every year)
-Weight/height/bfp
Just to list a few. Before you say anything, I know I know, it opens a huge door for discrimination, but this is a forum that takes time to create an account, and is closely moderated... Akin to the real world if you will, so rampant discrimination should not happen. In the real world you're given some of these factors before you engage in discussion to aid you, so why not on the internet? Or do you guys believe that conversation on the internet is more conductive for transport of thoughtful ideas (maybe).
Verification could be by submitting your driver's license when you sign up for example (with certain fields covered with paper), and in the photo of your ID that you take, you'd have to say "for teamliquid" for example, so you can't just take one from the internet, or just make it a larger hassle to do. Or at least, make this fields optional to fill out, I have no shame in telling people I'm a 22 y/o white male from Canada, hard agnostic, straight, relationship, unemployed, engg uni degree, 18%bfp, IQ145... They can use that information how they will, it can only help them, so long as they're not making statements like "because you're white you wouldn't understand", or they have a history of only replying by berating black posters, etc.
Do you guys think this could have any positive effect at all, or be useful every for online conversation? It'd have the advantage over linkedin/facebook where your identity is unknown to other posters, so you can be liberal (lol, conservative is probably a more accurate word for it nowadays) with your thoughts, but people could also learn a bit about you before they post, and make some stereotypes and use some of their preconceived notions before spending hours of their time discussing with someone who is a waste of time. Anyway, I know stereotypes aren't great, but all people use them subconsciously (or consciously) all the time, and they prove to be a great help and time saver. As you say, huge window for discrimination, and as you show yourself, it just turns into a penis size contest. "I got higher IQ than you, so you are wrong." No thanks, go back to MENSA and keep that crap there. If you want a discussion with experts only, there are forums for that within each field. Go there. I find the mixed level part of the beauty of TL. Experts get some insight into how "normal" people think, and "normal" people can get an angle from experts of whatever field is being discussion. Sometimes I wish that the normal people would realise that they are indeed not experts, but I think even the (mostly unfounded) confidence of normal people is useful to see for an expert. It's a bit of a reality check I think. The list of properties you suggest is more appropriate for a dating site I feel. I don't want my perception of what other people write to be clouded by a host of prejudice from age/gender/race/whatever. If someone is an expert on what they are talking about, the usually say so, and that's all I need to know. All I WANT to know. IQ is definitely one of those more iffy ones, but I think that'd be one of the first rules in the forum, same way as don't be racist on most forums now would be. You'd hope that people would be intelligent enough to realize that IQ can only tell so much, and that'd quickly become the norm, and any others trying to use that information otherwise would be scolded by the others appropriately. I'm not really after an expert vs expert discussion, just a way to asses someone's "cred" before I post. Currently, my only system I have is a few names blacklisted in certain threads which I just won't reply to... Outside of that when I look at a stranger, the country tells me something, and then I try to infer as much as I can from join date and post count. High post count and recent join date is usually a bad sign in my head (statistically speaking anyway), less than 50 posts I won't ever commit a serious reply to for example, especially when they're being questionable, because often just some lag in them getting banned. Like for example this topic here with the cars, I don't claim to be an expert, and really, I don't think there's anyone out there who's going to be an expert on this - even if you're working on Google car, there's a good chance that their opinion won't be more thought out than someone here (if someone is asking help for a math problem, that's a different situation). More information about the people you talk would at least for me, allow to create better relies, tailor better for my audience, save everyone some time, etc. I'd consider myself a fairly average slightly nerdy computer Joe in many ways, and I think it would improve my experience having discussions on the internet, and since I think there's plenty of people out there similar to me, it should have a place at least on some forums on the internet, but I don't see it frequently at all. You're a white straight male, as am I. I don't think either of us really understand how it is being discriminated against, but I think I've at least realised that I don't know. You're a fair bit younger as well, which probably is part of it. Nonetheless, being forced to wear your source of discrimination on your account is in principle similar to the Nazis forcing Jews to wear the star to be recognised. I'm not saying that your a nazi or that you suggest this with the intention of discriminating anyone. I just think that you're not aware of what it is like to be discriminated. Most of the properties you suggest are discriminated against on one end of the spectrum, and they will be here on TL as well, consciously or subconsciously or both. So let's give the women, homosexuals and coloured people a break from discrimination at least here on TL, what do you think? Also, don't for a moment think that higher intelligence and/or education necessarily lead to better discussions. I have seen an amazing threadline where two physics professors flame each others (Of course those are very funny types of flames, including claims by both that the other doesn't even understand special relativity) Furthermore, i know that i wouldn't sign up for a forum that would require me to submit large amounts of data to verify who i am for fun. I can imagine doing so for something work related, or some other forum that talks about stuff regarding my profession, but i wouldn't do it just for casual discussion.
I can brag about how I saw two teenagers fighting on twitch chat about the size of their penises (seeing something once doesn't confirm its statistical significance). Actually I lied, I made that story up.
Anyway, I think the combination of all the factors would lead to better discussions overall, and less wasted time for people posting. If I see that someone is a devout evangelical, I might be less likely to try and explain a position of me being pro-life based on an ethical and not religious standpoint (arbitrary scenario), just to give a simple example.
I certainly see the perspective of not wanting to enter large amounts of personal data to use a website, but I think a big factor might be that the website might be shady and have no reputation. Most people have little fear entering personal information into Quora, Linkedin, or Facebook... Plus this would be hidden from the public. If Reddit had a Reddit+ feature, where you could opt into these features to takes part in a few select forums, you might consider it. I mean it's not like it'd be more work than having to customize the TL sidebar, which is something I'd imagine most people replying in this thread did.
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I refuse to sign up for Quora precisely because they want a whole bunch of info about me that I can see no reason why they need it.
Anyway, you're on a forum dedicated to StarCraft (or maybe one of the other subforums). Even for the internet this is going to be a homogenous group. Are you really that interested in having confirmed that >95% is a white or Asian male between 16 and 40?
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On October 18 2016 15:48 Acrofales wrote:
I refuse to sign up for Quora precisely because they want a whole bunch of info about me that I can see no reason why they need it.
Anyway, you're on a forum dedicated to StarCraft (or maybe one of the other subforums). Even for the internet this is going to be a homogenous group. Are you really that interested in having confirmed that >95% is a white or Asian male between 16 and 40?
And that's fine, it's not for everyone, but hey, it's Rank 93 on Alexa for all websites in the world; it's pretty popular if you ask me... And imo the reason why Quora didn't turn out like Yahoo answers (so you might be able to go as far as to say it's a filter for the people you don't want on your website because they don't take the internet and what you do seriously enough). I mean I feel like if we're here on TL, we probably take SC2 more seriously than the people on reddit for example (maybe seriously isn't the right word, but you know what I mean?), so it'd be just taking it a step further.
This idea isn't necessarily for TL to adopt, just some forums in general. Just so happens that most people here are male and white or asian, so these numbers won't be all that meaningful here, sure. But the others statistics could, and I only threw out some of the potential ones.... And the criteria displayed could be different for different subforums, it's all about just giving the reader some extra understanding about the person he's dealing with.
You probably don't have much of an issue of your ID being checked in you go to a bar, maybe your ID scanned if you go to a club, your passport checked when flying, your criminal record checked when you're getting a job. The whole issue is when you're worried about the company you're giving your shit selling your identity and stuff about you to other people, or in some way using it, at least from where I see it. Doesn't the Fish server in Korea require phone identification, isn't this rather similar?
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On October 18 2016 16:13 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 15:48 Acrofales wrote:
I refuse to sign up for Quora precisely because they want a whole bunch of info about me that I can see no reason why they need it.
Anyway, you're on a forum dedicated to StarCraft (or maybe one of the other subforums). Even for the internet this is going to be a homogenous group. Are you really that interested in having confirmed that >95% is a white or Asian male between 16 and 40? And that's fine, it's not for everyone, but hey, it's Rank 93 on Alexa for all websites in the world; it's pretty popular if you ask me... And imo the reason why Quora didn't turn out like Yahoo answers (so you might be able to go as far as to say it's a filter for the people you don't want on your website because they don't take the internet and what you do seriously enough). I mean I feel like if we're here on TL, we probably take SC2 more seriously than the people on reddit for example (maybe seriously isn't the right word, but you know what I mean?), so it'd be just taking it a step further. This idea isn't necessarily for TL to adopt, just some forums in general. Just so happens that most people here are male and white or asian, so these numbers won't be all that meaningful here, sure. But the others statistics could, and I only threw out some of the potential ones.... And the criteria displayed could be different for different subforums, it's all about just giving the reader some extra understanding about the person he's dealing with. You probably don't have much of an issue of your ID being checked in you go to a bar, maybe your ID scanned if you go to a club, your passport checked when flying, your criminal record checked when you're getting a job. The whole issue is when you're worried about the company you're giving your shit selling your identity and stuff about you to other people, or in some way using it, at least from where I see it. Doesn't the Fish server in Korea require phone identification, isn't this rather similar?
If you think phone identification is similar to having your gender race and sexual orientation on public display, then you really don't get the issue people are having with this. In general you write a lot of words but I don't feel you address the problem at all. Use your 168 IQ Mr white straight male, and try to see this from other people's perspective.
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I don't know if this thread has turned into "The FiWiFaKi vs the world Megathread" or "Cars vs Public Transportation Megathread"
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On October 18 2016 16:48 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 16:13 FiWiFaKi wrote:On October 18 2016 15:48 Acrofales wrote:
I refuse to sign up for Quora precisely because they want a whole bunch of info about me that I can see no reason why they need it.
Anyway, you're on a forum dedicated to StarCraft (or maybe one of the other subforums). Even for the internet this is going to be a homogenous group. Are you really that interested in having confirmed that >95% is a white or Asian male between 16 and 40? And that's fine, it's not for everyone, but hey, it's Rank 93 on Alexa for all websites in the world; it's pretty popular if you ask me... And imo the reason why Quora didn't turn out like Yahoo answers (so you might be able to go as far as to say it's a filter for the people you don't want on your website because they don't take the internet and what you do seriously enough). I mean I feel like if we're here on TL, we probably take SC2 more seriously than the people on reddit for example (maybe seriously isn't the right word, but you know what I mean?), so it'd be just taking it a step further. This idea isn't necessarily for TL to adopt, just some forums in general. Just so happens that most people here are male and white or asian, so these numbers won't be all that meaningful here, sure. But the others statistics could, and I only threw out some of the potential ones.... And the criteria displayed could be different for different subforums, it's all about just giving the reader some extra understanding about the person he's dealing with. You probably don't have much of an issue of your ID being checked in you go to a bar, maybe your ID scanned if you go to a club, your passport checked when flying, your criminal record checked when you're getting a job. The whole issue is when you're worried about the company you're giving your shit selling your identity and stuff about you to other people, or in some way using it, at least from where I see it. Doesn't the Fish server in Korea require phone identification, isn't this rather similar? If you think phone identification is similar to having your gender race and sexual orientation on public display, then you really don't get the issue people are having with this. In general you write a lot of words but I don't feel you address the problem at all. Use your 168 IQ Mr white straight male, and try to see this from other people's perspective.
This isn't making people wear patches in public to identify themselves. It's a voluntary service at a very niche site. As I said, I think communication on the internet is very lacking in quality compared to what you can achieve with a circle of well chosen peers in the real world. I get it, it's not for everyone, if you're ashamed of one of your traits to the extent where if random strangers on the internet know it and it bothers you, not for you. Direct discrimination on your "profile" would absolutely not be allowed. The reality is that the internet is full of pretenders who wish to fabricate everything about themselves to impress people they'll never meet, you have discussions with people that sometimes take time to pick up that they're trolls... Some kind of system where you can asses the quality or characters of the poster would provide a benefit.
A system where people cannot identify your the person behind the screen in the real world, but can have an idea of their characteristics is good for certain types of discussion. Every single big multinational company you're watched like a hawk, everything can come bite you in the ass, and people put up with it... Yes, you need the money so you do it, but there's also plenty benefit to the transparency of that kind of workplace. If I was the owner of such a forum, I wouldn't tolerate ad hominem attacks (like your post just now, you'd be other of there )... If you are insecure about people knowing you're Hispanic, or that you dropped out of high school, or that you're gay, or a girl or whatever is seen as "bad"... In this kind of case, I wouldn't really give a shit, it's 100% voluntary, it cannot be traced back to you. If you don't like the system, don't join, even though I'd disagree with the perspective of being ashamed of yourself. If anything, if done with the right people, it'd probably be a humbling experience.
My opinion is that it's some irrational human fear, or maybe it's trying to extrapolate kind of but not so similar situation from the real world to predict the outcome. But please, just think of normal human interaction, and how it doesn't devolve into "your dick is 3 inches so I wont listen to you" (at least for a portion of the society), and that's who it'd be catered to.
Some people fail to see the difference between discrimination for "legit" reasons, versus discriminating because you just don't like a certain group. If I only hire girl servers for my bar, I'm discriminating, but I'm not doing it because I hate men, I'm doing it because I'll make more money. I don't hate 10 year olds because I don't want to have deep conversations with them, I do it because I wont achieve my goal of being enriched with new views. Yes, there is potential for abuse, but because I love analogies so much, just because a knife can kill, doesn't mean we don't allow knives for cooking.
I can of course predict that there'd insane amounts of objections people have from first impressions for plenty of reasons. If you recorded every second of someone's life, you could make a compilation that makes anyone out as a bad person... I don't know what this phenomenon is called since I've never taken any sociology or psychology courses. Point is that I'm looking at it from the perspective of there could be benefit of this system, what would have to be done to make it work. You insist taking the other perspective of, these are the obstacles, so it wont work, but you could have probably made that argument for every single new invention in human history.
edit: I'm a normal person I swear, me agreeing with something isn't interesting, so I only post when I have objections or ideas that I'm not repeating from a dozen other parties.
edit2: I'll take a break from replying for a little bit then, sometimes it's hard to gauge whether the general opinion is "ah, what he's saying is interesting" versus "this fiwi dood needs to stfu". I'd love to have some statistic that could tell you the word count of all your posts combined. I'm quite certain between TL and LD I'd have near 2,000,000 words. At a word per second (optimistic with thinking involved), that'd be 3 weeks of my life T_T.
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I still think you just don't get how discrimination works. I understand what you are saying, and it makes sense if you don't understand discrimination. it's an angle I hear a lot from men discussing gender equity, whites discussion racism and so on. A lot of what you are saying is really off though, which is why I'm losing patience with your walls of texts. I don't intend to spend the time to pick them apart though. I don't see you revaluating assumptions. Sorry for that.
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Why don't we just split the difference and only force users to display one attribute: how many forum negotiated bets the user has reneged on. That should satisfy fiwifaki.
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For everything you mentioned being a problem with quality conversation and how to solve it, Fiwifaki,, I feel like the quality of conversation is actually quite high for alot of subjects. Mostly people are interested, engaging and are capable of at least decent argumentation. The last thing you want is a circlejerk of people in a certain field advocating the only possble solution and saying why it's the best solution to a certain problem.
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Because it doesn't offer different perspectives and generally feels like a hostile environment for those that have one imo.
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On October 18 2016 21:49 Uldridge wrote:
Because it doesn't offer different perspectives and generally feels like a hostile environment for those that have one imo.
I'm fairly certain he meant literal circle jerks...
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Literal or not, it doesn't make my statement less valid :>
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Some people just want a nice blumpkin
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On October 18 2016 21:37 JimmiC wrote:
Why do circle jerks get such a bad reputation? It seems like a great bonding experience and hopefully everyone gets off, appears to be a win win to me.
The issue with circle jerks is selfishness. I mean, when you and your buddies do it and your other hand reaches for their ass, is it really that much of a line to cross? And so what if you want to see the other two make out? So much selfishness, what about what I want?
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On October 18 2016 23:09 JimmiC wrote:
I guess you are getting into the whole compromise for others diminishing your own pleasure issue of partner sex. As well as the need to put on a performance and possible performance anxiety.
Anxiety?
I have no anxiety!
What makes your think I'm anxious?
You're the one who is anxious!
Do we take off our pants now?
On a serious note, performance issues from feeling you have to compromise is definitely a thing. But what does it exactly mean? Like, how does that help us biologically as an evolutionary trait?
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Don't know if everything psychological is related somehow to a positive evolutionary trait. I don't think alot of things we've done with our brains in the last millennia coupled with the fact we had to adapt to it necessarily related to the evolutionary.
If I do have to make an argument for it, however, I'd say if you're feeling performance anxiety because you can't really do what you want to do, you should find a better fitting partner.
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EPT
