EPTAsk and answer stupid questions here! - Page 380
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KwarK
United States44402 Posts
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Simberto
Germany12066 Posts
On January 06 2016 05:12 KwarK wrote: In the US the police are held to have absolutely no legal obligation to help you, even if you called the police and they're currently in the process of answering that call. The case where that was decided was horrifying. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia What the fuck. That case description is horrifying. How can that happen? And how can no one be at fault for such horrible incompetence? This sounds so utterly bizarre. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On January 06 2016 05:52 Simberto wrote: What the fuck. That case description is horrifying. How can that happen? And how can no one be at fault for such horrible incompetence? This sounds so utterly bizarre. I mean, did a cop ever get an actual sentence in the US in the last ~60 years? | ||
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Simberto
Germany12066 Posts
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oGoZenob
France1503 Posts
On January 06 2016 05:52 Simberto wrote: What the fuck. That case description is horrifying. How can that happen? And how can no one be at fault for such horrible incompetence? This sounds so utterly bizarre. I doubt one can understand that verdict without reading the full court report | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On January 06 2016 06:01 Simberto wrote: Yes, but what the fuck. A woman called the cops that someone is in her house raping her neighbor. The guy on the line tells her that help is on the way. Nothing happens for half an hour. She calls again, is again told that help is on the way. She thinks that means that the cops are actually there and calls down, and now she and her two neighbours get raped for the next 14 hours while no cop ever arrives? That sounds like something out of a horror movie. And then the court decides that it is her own fault for believing the guy at the emergency hotline. Nothing in that story makes any sense whatsoever, and still it is apparently a precedence case in US law. People on the help line are not cops and cops are not people on the help line. The police are under no obligation to follow the orders of someone on a help line. | ||
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KwarK
United States44402 Posts
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
So while that sucks, I feel it is a bit unfair to jail someone for screwing up at their job. There should definitely be consequences, losing your job for example, but legally charged is too much imo. If it is a matter of harming people on purpose, or doing something just plain illegal, then it is a different matter of course. A police shouldn't be allowed to go up and shoot someone they don't like and don't get jailed. But as long as it is no more than a crap decision in good faith, I feel that losing your job should be the worst that can happen. Possibly your boss and co-workers should also be let go, for not noticing that he was incompetent staff, or failing to act on it. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On January 06 2016 20:10 Cascade wrote: In a way it just a matter of good old incompetence of a professional, which I'm sure is happening on a daily basis in every profession. In some professions, such as police, doctors, firefighters, commercial airline pilots, etc, screwing up can mean that people get seriously injured, or die. Or get raped for 14 hours apparently. So while that sucks, I feel it is a bit unfair to jail someone for screwing up at their job. There should definitely be consequences, losing your job for example, but legally charged is too much imo. If it is a matter of harming people on purpose, or doing something just plain illegal, then it is a different matter of course. A police shouldn't be allowed to go up and shoot someone they don't like and don't get jailed. But as long as it is no more than a crap decision in good faith, I feel that losing your job should be the worst that can happen. Possibly your boss and co-workers should also be let go, for not noticing that he was incompetent staff, or failing to act on it. Well, for doctors in France it is the "obligation of means" (obligation de moyens) which exists, meaning basically that if you screw up BUT tried your best, you're not responsible. However, if you screw up and didn't try hard, you can be charged. Now, I don't think the police tried very hard : they did not even enter the building. | ||
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Oshuy
Netherlands529 Posts
On January 06 2016 21:54 OtherWorld wrote: Well, for doctors in France it is the "obligation of means" (obligation de moyens) which exists, meaning basically that if you screw up BUT tried your best, you're not responsible. However, if you screw up and didn't try hard, you can be charged. Now, I don't think the police tried very hard : they did not even enter the building. Would depend on the screw up. If the doctor follows standard procedure and fails, there is no blame. If he gives you medicine to which you are known to be allergic, or removes a head instead of a kidney, even if it's just a mistake he can still be charged. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On January 06 2016 21:54 OtherWorld wrote: Well, for doctors in France it is the "obligation of means" (obligation de moyens) which exists, meaning basically that if you screw up BUT tried your best, you're not responsible. However, if you screw up and didn't try hard, you can be charged. Now, I don't think the police tried very hard : they did not even enter the building. I don't know the details, but assuming the best, they were busy elsewhere, and someone made the call of giving the old lady low priority. Maybe they thought it was a false alarm from a crazy lady or whatever, who knows. In retrospect it was the wrong call (unless dr octopus was threatening to destroy the earth that exact moment), but maybe it could have been caused my just a misjudgement. Must be tricky managing 911 calls when you don't have enough resources to tend to all... But again, I don't know the details, maybe something worse happened. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On January 06 2016 22:11 Oshuy wrote: Would depend on the screw up. If the doctor follows standard procedure and fails, there is no blame. If he gives you medicine to which you are known to be allergic, or removes a head instead of a kidney, even if it's just a mistake he can still be charged. Yeah, I guess at a certain noobness of the screwup you should have known that you are incompetent, and realise that you were putting people at risk. If I somehow got a MD, I wouldn't perform surgery on someone, no matter how good my intentions were. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On January 07 2016 05:13 JimmiC wrote: Most people outside of the US don't wonder why people are paranoid about the gov taking away guns. They wonder why Americans love guns so much and have so many when it's clear from all the numbers that all it creates is more violence. Has there been a mass shooting stopped by some random dude with a gun?I hear people saying "If people had guns in france that shooting would happen." yet all these shootings in the states are eventually stopped by the police. Honestly, while I don't think having to carry guns to feel safe is the symptom of a very healthy society, you have to notice that Switzerland doesn't have much gun violence despite it being one of the most gun-heavy country in the Western world. Don't you think the gun issue in the US is mainly related to American culture and (lack of) gun education rather than guns themselves? | ||
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Simberto
Germany12066 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On January 07 2016 06:03 Simberto wrote: We have this discussion every few dozen pages. Swiss gun culture has nothing in common with US gun culture. For one, while everyone has a gun from their military days, they don't have ammo. There was a larger list of other things that are generally misconceptions about swiss guns which i don't really want to reproduce for the third time. Sorry, I guess I missed the last discussion then D: | ||
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Sent.
Poland9333 Posts
On January 07 2016 06:03 Simberto wrote: We have this discussion every few dozen pages. Swiss gun culture has nothing in common with US gun culture. For one, while everyone has a gun from their military days, they don't have ammo. There was a larger list of other things that are generally misconceptions about swiss guns which i don't really want to reproduce for the third time. Not even one bullet? | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
This is why we should go back to muskets. You'll always have bullets, just no gun powder. | ||
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