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marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 01 2015 10:19 GMT
#5341
On June 01 2015 19:10 OtherWorld wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2015 18:52 helpman176 wrote:
Why do so few females play StarCraft or chess?

Is this specific to mental games? How does it look like in other sports?
Can the question be simplified to:
Why do so few females play competitive sports?

My hypothesis is that females are not socially encouraged to take part in competitive activities, unlike males. It's probably a remnant of our old patriarchal societies & culture.

And testosterone.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
June 01 2015 10:55 GMT
#5342
On June 01 2015 19:19 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2015 19:10 OtherWorld wrote:
On June 01 2015 18:52 helpman176 wrote:
Why do so few females play StarCraft or chess?

Is this specific to mental games? How does it look like in other sports?
Can the question be simplified to:
Why do so few females play competitive sports?

My hypothesis is that females are not socially encouraged to take part in competitive activities, unlike males. It's probably a remnant of our old patriarchal societies & culture.

And testosterone.

hmm that probably factors in as well, but women can be very competitive with each other in other domains, so I think it's mainly society
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
pschiu
Profile Joined April 2010
Singapore410 Posts
June 01 2015 12:29 GMT
#5343
Where can I write stuff (e.g. Google docs, notepad) but where I can easily add collapsible sub-sections and sub-sub-sections and so on? Such that a non-technical reader can easily read a brief overview and zoom in on sub-topics of interest?
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
June 01 2015 13:23 GMT
#5344
On June 01 2015 18:52 helpman176 wrote:
Why do so few females play StarCraft or chess?

Is this specific to mental games? How does it look like in other sports?
Can the question be simplified to:
Why do so few females play competitive sports?


Lots of women play competitive sports (less than men, but way more than gets covered by sports news). Women are also very often competitive in all kinds of other things.

The video game thing (<10% of people who play competitive computer games being women) is because of the place gaming occupies in our culture. It's often seen as a nerd, socially awkward, dorky, obsessive thing. There is a LOT more pressure on women than men to avoid these things, and so a lot of women are more sensitive than men to the social stigma serious gaming can involve.

Of course, in real life, all serious gamers are brilliant, charming, buff sexmachines.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
June 01 2015 13:57 GMT
#5345
On June 01 2015 21:29 pschiu wrote:
Where can I write stuff (e.g. Google docs, notepad) but where I can easily add collapsible sub-sections and sub-sub-sections and so on? Such that a non-technical reader can easily read a brief overview and zoom in on sub-topics of interest?


JavaScript
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
June 01 2015 14:17 GMT
#5346
On June 01 2015 18:52 helpman176 wrote:
Why do so few females play StarCraft or chess?

Is this specific to mental games? How does it look like in other sports?
Can the question be simplified to:
Why do so few females play competitive sports?


Social engineering.

Little girls are given dolls and told their pretty.
Little boys are given tools and told their smart.

Both believe what their told as the foundations of patriarchy gets built from children up.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
oGoZenob
Profile Joined December 2011
France1503 Posts
June 01 2015 14:24 GMT
#5347
On June 01 2015 23:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:

Little girls are given dolls and told their pretty.
Little boys are given tools and told their smart.


They're. They are. Come on, you're a native speaker and I'm not, how difficult could that be !
I like starcraft
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
June 01 2015 15:02 GMT
#5348
On June 01 2015 23:24 oGoZenob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2015 23:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:

Little girls are given dolls and told their pretty.
Little boys are given tools and told their smart.


They're. They are. Come on, you're a native speaker and I'm not, how difficult could that be !


As a Filipino I find your use of the word "Native" offensive.

+ Show Spoiler +
lol just kidding of course. But seriously, that's your takeaway?
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 01 2015 15:04 GMT
#5349
On June 02 2015 00:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2015 23:24 oGoZenob wrote:
On June 01 2015 23:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:

Little girls are given dolls and told their pretty.
Little boys are given tools and told their smart.


They're. They are. Come on, you're a native speaker and I'm not, how difficult could that be !


As a Filipino I find your use of the word "Native" offensive.

+ Show Spoiler +
lol just kidding of course. But seriously, that's your takeaway?

yes, the error was that egregious
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-01 15:53:56
June 01 2015 15:53 GMT
#5350
On June 01 2015 23:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2015 18:52 helpman176 wrote:
Why do so few females play StarCraft or chess?

Is this specific to mental games? How does it look like in other sports?
Can the question be simplified to:
Why do so few females play competitive sports?


Social engineering.

Little girls are given dolls and told their pretty.
Little boys are given tools and told their smart.

Both believe what their told as the foundations of patriarchy gets built from children up.

why can't they build a matriarchy alongside patriarchy?.
why it's imperative that patriarchy must fall/change/bow down to ... ?.

define concept, social-engineer said concept, profit? ...
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
helpman176
Profile Blog Joined May 2015
128 Posts
June 01 2015 16:54 GMT
#5351
When you say that "there are lots of women in competitive sports", can you present some data that supports that?
Naturally popular sports will have more women, but we are interested in percentages.

The thing that boys are given cars and girls are given dolls and that's how gender roles get established has been proven to be bullshit. See http://livescience.com/22677-girls-dolls-boys-toy-trucks.html

The notion that the female preference is influenced by society and biology makes sense, yet it is difficult to come up with an analysis/experiment that observes one or the other in isolation.

To say that culture is the only responsible factor assumes that society alone can change the status quo to get females more interested in competitive sports.
If there is no biological factor that hinders the development of this interest, then we would expect to see an almost linear increase in number of women interested in competitive sports as a society becomes more egalitarian over time.
Is this the case?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23924 Posts
June 01 2015 17:18 GMT
#5352
On June 02 2015 01:54 helpman176 wrote:
When you say that "there are lots of women in competitive sports", can you present some data that supports that?
Naturally popular sports will have more women, but we are interested in percentages.

The thing that boys are given cars and girls are given dolls and that's how gender roles get established has been proven to be bullshit. See http://livescience.com/22677-girls-dolls-boys-toy-trucks.html

The notion that the female preference is influenced by society and biology makes sense, yet it is difficult to come up with an analysis/experiment that observes one or the other in isolation.

To say that culture is the only responsible factor assumes that society alone can change the status quo to get females more interested in competitive sports.
If there is no biological factor that hinders the development of this interest, then we would expect to see an almost linear increase in number of women interested in competitive sports as a society becomes more egalitarian over time.
Is this the case?


lol @ that 'science'

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Source
Source
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
helpman176
Profile Blog Joined May 2015
128 Posts
June 01 2015 17:43 GMT
#5353
Cool, so can we dismiss the notion that competitiveness is the discerning factor?
It would be great if we could have some percentages by type of sport.

The number of females in sports like chess, StarCraft, Formula 1 is less than 10%.
Compare that to 75% females in volleyball or gymnastics.

Could it be that females prefer team sports and expressive sports and rather stay away from mind-focused 'loner' sports?
Or is there no such correlation?
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
June 01 2015 18:17 GMT
#5354
On June 02 2015 01:54 helpman176 wrote:
To say that culture is the only responsible factor assumes that society alone can change the status quo to get females more interested in competitive sports.
If there is no biological factor that hinders the development of this interest, then we would expect to see an almost linear increase in number of women interested in competitive sports as a society becomes more egalitarian over time.
Is this the case?

Culture & society are not the only factors, but the major ones, and the ones at the root. And yeah, the thing is that society becoming more egalitarian is much much slower than what we believe.
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
June 01 2015 21:36 GMT
#5355
On June 02 2015 00:53 xM(Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2015 23:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On June 01 2015 18:52 helpman176 wrote:
Why do so few females play StarCraft or chess?

Is this specific to mental games? How does it look like in other sports?
Can the question be simplified to:
Why do so few females play competitive sports?


Social engineering.

Little girls are given dolls and told their pretty.
Little boys are given tools and told their smart.

Both believe what their told as the foundations of patriarchy gets built from children up.

why can't they build a matriarchy alongside patriarchy?.
why it's imperative that patriarchy must fall/change/bow down to ... ?.

define concept, social-engineer said concept, profit? ...


No one is after a matriarchy because it goes against the point of feminism--which is equality.

Let me put an example:

In a patriarchy, the phrase "you hit like a girl" is an insult.
In a matriarchy, the phrase "you hit like a girl" would be a complement

The goal should be that the phrase "you hit like a girl" is confusing because it doesn't actual mean anything. Hitting like a girl and hitting like a boy shouldn't really register as anything different from each other.

Feminism doesn't want any atriarchies. Equality is the goal.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-02 00:39:48
June 02 2015 00:38 GMT
#5356
that's probably the worst example you could've given here but i got it, some of it at least.
though, i doubt taking a generalization and transform/change it into something specific (ex: "you hit like a girl" vs "you hit like Mary" (Mary being known for her bad throws, obviously)) would have any positive effect what so ever.
i'm betting it will be way worse for the one that would have to carry the whole weight of being (perceived as) weak all by her lonesome.

equality is a fairytale; it doesn't exist, never will and as such, there will always be weak(er) people, or group of people that will get picked on.
the stereotyping of women is more prevalent?.
- probably
enough to make it an issue?.
- i don't know, maybe...?
thing is, every time someone presents a problem then a proposed solution to it, it just looks like he's trying to score points (politics, fuck yeah) by reducing the number of offended people while putting the whole weight of it on a single person at a time.

mostly it's bad; the stuff you said there is just ... fail.
taking something that is (maybe)superficially offensive and turn it in actual personal sufferance for a clap on the back ... i don't get it.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Rollin
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia1552 Posts
June 02 2015 00:52 GMT
#5357
On June 02 2015 06:36 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Let me put an example:

In a patriarchy, the phrase "you hit like a girl" is an insult.
In a matriarchy, the phrase "you hit like a girl" would be a complement

The goal should be that the phrase "you hit like a girl" is confusing because it doesn't actual mean anything. Hitting like a girl and hitting like a boy shouldn't really register as anything different from each other.

Your example makes no sense as regardless of society's perspectives/values, women are statistically weaker than men. That's a fact. It's considered insulting to equate something to a lesser version, so in the context of hitting (strength) where women have lesser strength, it will always be demeaning when said to a man. Saying it to a female is strange though.

Usage of the term may decrease and become distasteful though.
Throw off those chains of reason, and your prison disappears. | Check your posting frequency timeline: http://www.teamliquid.net/mytlnet/post_activity_img.php
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
June 02 2015 03:53 GMT
#5358
On June 02 2015 09:52 Rollin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2015 06:36 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Let me put an example:

In a patriarchy, the phrase "you hit like a girl" is an insult.
In a matriarchy, the phrase "you hit like a girl" would be a complement

The goal should be that the phrase "you hit like a girl" is confusing because it doesn't actual mean anything. Hitting like a girl and hitting like a boy shouldn't really register as anything different from each other.

Your example makes no sense as regardless of society's perspectives/values, women are statistically weaker than men. That's a fact. It's considered insulting to equate something to a lesser version, so in the context of hitting (strength) where women have lesser strength, it will always be demeaning when said to a man. Saying it to a female is strange though.

Usage of the term may decrease and become distasteful though.


And the problem you have is the values you place on what is a complement or not.

In today's patriarchal society, good throwing is determined by strength. That is not necessarily true in a matriarchal society which might value something else as important in the act of throwing.

That's what you don't seem to get. Something being a compliment or an insult depends purely on what is valued in the described topic. "You hit like a girl" as you say, is an emphasis on female weakness. But it's possible that "you hit like a girl" in a matriarchal society is a celebration of the person's grace or form. You being unable to see that shows how limited to patriarchal constructs your point of view is. Because, remember, it's about what is valued (not measured) that determines whether something is patriarchal or matriarchal--and that is because a matriarchal society will value and praise different things than a patriarchal one.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23924 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-02 04:16:10
June 02 2015 04:11 GMT
#5359
Do people use the little dial that adjusts the brightness of their dashboard lights in their car? If so what for (I know it dims them but why did you or someone you know use it to dim the lights?).

Is it there because of some old regulation or something? Seems like something car companies would of junked to save a few pennies a long time ago?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11817 Posts
June 02 2015 07:01 GMT
#5360
On June 02 2015 12:53 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2015 09:52 Rollin wrote:
On June 02 2015 06:36 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Let me put an example:

In a patriarchy, the phrase "you hit like a girl" is an insult.
In a matriarchy, the phrase "you hit like a girl" would be a complement

The goal should be that the phrase "you hit like a girl" is confusing because it doesn't actual mean anything. Hitting like a girl and hitting like a boy shouldn't really register as anything different from each other.

Your example makes no sense as regardless of society's perspectives/values, women are statistically weaker than men. That's a fact. It's considered insulting to equate something to a lesser version, so in the context of hitting (strength) where women have lesser strength, it will always be demeaning when said to a man. Saying it to a female is strange though.

Usage of the term may decrease and become distasteful though.


And the problem you have is the values you place on what is a complement or not.

In today's patriarchal society, good throwing is determined by strength. That is not necessarily true in a matriarchal society which might value something else as important in the act of throwing.

That's what you don't seem to get. Something being a compliment or an insult depends purely on what is valued in the described topic. "You hit like a girl" as you say, is an emphasis on female weakness. But it's possible that "you hit like a girl" in a matriarchal society is a celebration of the person's grace or form. You being unable to see that shows how limited to patriarchal constructs your point of view is. Because, remember, it's about what is valued (not measured) that determines whether something is patriarchal or matriarchal--and that is because a matriarchal society will value and praise different things than a patriarchal one.


Sorry, but no.

In a lot of cases, that point can be made, and is a valid argument. In the two cases at hand, no, it can not.

Hitting someone has a very specific purpose. Hurting them. Thus, a "good" hit is one that hurt more. That means either more force or more accuracy. No matter how graceful you hit someone, if that punch is worse at accomplishing the underlying goal, it is objectively a worse punch.

The same goes for throwing a ball. Here, there are two things that are relevant: Distance and accuracy. Throwing a ball has a very specific goal. Thus, a throw is better if it goes further/faster and/or if it is more accurate. These are very objective criteria for a throw, and judging the throwing of a ball by other criteria does not really make a lot of sense unless you want to completely change the meaning of throwing.Ultimately, the whole goal of throwing something is to get it from A to B, possibly past C. And you can very objectively judge how good a throw is at accomplishing that goal.

And in both those cases, men do have a biological advantage, simply because they are on average ~12cm larger and 10kg heavier.
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