|
France17333 Posts
On May 21 2015 20:54 VelJa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 20:52 OtherWorld wrote:On May 21 2015 20:31 helpman175 wrote:On May 21 2015 20:24 VelJa wrote:
Weirdo question here.
When i'm sick, i dont take drugs in order to heal faster because i think thant my body can handle the pain and heal alone. It takes more times and more suffer, but one day, when i will get something really bad, i think that drugs will be more effective on me in that way.
Is that true or ma i completly idiot ?
I ask this here cuz i talk about that with my gf and sh's telling me that i'm dumb :o If you mean the common cold then you are right. There is no cure for it. It takes a set amount of days, no matter what you do. All you can do is treat the symptoms which is basically pointless (and not very manly to be honest). It makes sure that the pharma industry does prosper though if you are worried about the industry as a whole. Treating symptoms is far from pointless. agreed, but that's absolutly not the question xD
Answered now d:
|
On May 21 2015 20:57 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 20:54 VelJa wrote:On May 21 2015 20:52 OtherWorld wrote:On May 21 2015 20:31 helpman175 wrote:On May 21 2015 20:24 VelJa wrote:
Weirdo question here.
When i'm sick, i dont take drugs in order to heal faster because i think thant my body can handle the pain and heal alone. It takes more times and more suffer, but one day, when i will get something really bad, i think that drugs will be more effective on me in that way.
Is that true or ma i completly idiot ?
I ask this here cuz i talk about that with my gf and sh's telling me that i'm dumb :o If you mean the common cold then you are right. There is no cure for it. It takes a set amount of days, no matter what you do. All you can do is treat the symptoms which is basically pointless (and not very manly to be honest). It makes sure that the pharma industry does prosper though if you are worried about the industry as a whole. Treating symptoms is far from pointless. agreed, but that's absolutly not the question xD Answered now d:
hahaha yes u did :=)
typicall french answer : good short and interresting :p
|
On May 21 2015 20:31 helpman175 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 20:24 VelJa wrote:
Weirdo question here.
When i'm sick, i dont take drugs in order to heal faster because i think thant my body can handle the pain and heal alone. It takes more times and more suffer, but one day, when i will get something really bad, i think that drugs will be more effective on me in that way.
Is that true or ma i completly idiot ?
I ask this here cuz i talk about that with my gf and sh's telling me that i'm dumb :o If you mean the common cold then you are right. There is no cure for it. It takes a set amount of days, no matter what you do. All you can do is treat the symptoms which is basically pointless (and not very manly to be honest). It makes sure that the pharma industry does prosper though if you are worried about the industry as a whole.
Coming from chemistry background, I do not completely agree. I agree many times people take drugs when it's not really helpful at all, or antibiotics (although I've recently seen a huge switch of trend to not give antibiotics until you're really dying). Also I try not to take drugs unless necessary (drugs as in paracetamol or ibuprofen). However, there are times when relieving the symptoms such as pain, fever or inflammation is quite useful, as it can help reduce the stress on your body and improve the speed of recovery. If you have really high fever and nothing, even cold baths are helping to reduce it reasonably, it can be helpful. Having body temperature high (40-42C 104-107F) for prolonged periods of time can be dangerous for the body. Not having enough sleep because of pain (or nightmares due to fever) is also not too good when you're trying to recover. In most cases, I can endure the fever and temperature, though. However, my most favourite use goes to the anti-inflammatory drugs (such as ibuprofen. Even though ibuprofen is a terrible drug, as only 50% of it is effective due to stereochemistry and the rest of the acid is just messing your stomach with no effect). This has changed after my talk with my new doctor regarding these types of drugs. E.g. if you have inflammation in your throat, where your tonsils are swollen, taking anti-inflammatory drugs makes them un-swell, return to the normal state (and shape) and return the blood flow to the normal state. It helps the regeneration of the tissues and faster recovery. I had a case with my knee, where it was swollen and the fact it was swollen was preventing it from recovering, as the tissues were rubbing with each other and damaging it even further. I could only use ice to cool it down, or I could also take pills to remove swelling even more. It took me a month of this and physiotherapy to recover, would take me probably more without the anti-inflammatory drugs.
Generally I don't think there's much of a reason that your body 'would get used to' many of the drugs out there, as they simply affect biology in your body, stop neural synapses from communicating (removing pain) or inhibits enzymes from producing substances that'd e.g. cause swelling. And even if there's chance, you'd have to take them a lot to build some sort of addiction. Antibiotics work in a completely different way, though and using them without need could help bacteria in your body build immunity against them. Still there're drugs I am careful about, like the nasal sprays, which (some of them) have substances which cause physical addiction and your body stops being used to produce certain types of substances that are needed for normal functioning of the body (similar effect is with alcohol addiction, when your body gets used to endorphin being delivered with processes related to consumption of alcohol). The addiction with nasal sprays happens after 2-3 weeks of daily use and it's stated on the letter coming with the drugs. However, if you just take it once in a while when you really want free breathing delivered fast, there's no fear of anything going wrong or your body 'getting used to it'.
|
On May 21 2015 20:24 VelJa wrote:
Weirdo question here.
When i'm sick, i dont take drugs in order to heal faster because i think thant my body can handle the pain and heal alone. It takes more times and more suffer, but one day, when i will get something really bad, i think that drugs will be more effective on me in that way.
Is that true or ma i completly idiot ?
I ask this here cuz i talk about that with my gf and sh's telling me that i'm dumb :o
For "serious" (a rather subjective imo) diseases, your body doesn't necessarily have all the right tools to heal you, which is why we take medicine. Taking medicine isn't just to make you temporarily feel better; it's also to put you on the best track to recovery (along with eating properly, sleeping, etc.).
On May 21 2015 20:31 helpman175 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 20:24 VelJa wrote:
Weirdo question here.
When i'm sick, i dont take drugs in order to heal faster because i think thant my body can handle the pain and heal alone. It takes more times and more suffer, but one day, when i will get something really bad, i think that drugs will be more effective on me in that way.
Is that true or ma i completly idiot ?
I ask this here cuz i talk about that with my gf and sh's telling me that i'm dumb :o If you mean the common cold then you are right. There is no cure for it. It takes a set amount of days, no matter what you do. All you can do is treat the symptoms which is basically pointless (and not very manly to be honest).It makes sure that the pharma industry does prosper though if you are worried about the industry as a whole.
This line is particularly stupid. If I feel like shit, I naturally want to stop feeling like shit. You know what's not manly? Letting a small cold turn into something a lot worse because I was too proud to take the appropriate medication, or sitting around and doing nothing when I could be enjoying myself.
|
Anti-inflammatory drugs against the common cold are the worst.
Inflammation is a natural protective response by the body.
Why would any sane person get rid of that?
The same goes for decongestant drugs. The mucus forms a natural protective layer so that the infection cannot spread to other parts of the body such as the lungs.
|
ok this question become something else
i'm not saying i dont take drugs cuz its manly, wtf
i'm saying i dont take drugs for minor injurys, because i think that when i will get a major one, drugs will be more effective cuz my body is not used to have help while fighting the infection.
Maybe my english is really bad and u dont get what i try to explain ><
|
France17333 Posts
On May 21 2015 21:34 helpman175 wrote:
Anti-inflammatory drugs against the common cold are the worst.
Inflammation is a natural protective response by the body.
Why would any sane person get rid of that?
The same goes for decongestant drugs. The mucus forms a natural protective layer so that the infection cannot spread to other parts of the body such as the lungs.
So because it's natural and coming from the body, it's good?
|
I'm no expert but i think you got it wrong.
Certain bacteria get more and more resistant to certain drugs. So the question is not, if you yourself have taken tons of antibiotics before but if that certain strain you caught of illness/beacteria has allready developed a resistance.
And btw. not taking mild medication against the common cold does just one thing: It makes you feel worse than you have too.
|
I touched that in my post. I think there's a very small chance that'd happen, unless you really take the drugs regularly. The special case would be ATB where unneeded use can lead to increased immunity of the bacteria. Other drugs affect your body in various biological processes and it'd take a bit of an effort and regular use to modify those. My main concern when deciding if to take some 'helping' drugs is - will the benefit/relief outweigh the negative effects they can have (irritation of stomach, exhaustion). If your state is really bad, the provided relief can be worth it.
TL;DR - only use drugs if you can see it's not getting better and you can't sleep/eat/drink because of the symptoms or your temperature is getting extremely high for prolonged time and you should be fine.
EDIT - that being said, if used properly (not eating them with empty stomach, getting some stuff to help your stomach cultures recover), the stomach irritation can be avoided. I used ibuprrofen 3 times a day for a month straight with minimal stomach issues
|
On May 21 2015 22:01 Velr wrote:
I'm no expert but i think you got it wrong.
Certain bacteria get more and more resistant to certain drugs. So the question is not, if you yourself have taken tons of antibiotics before but if that certain strain you caught of illness/beacteria has allready developed a resistance.
And btw. not taking mild medication against the common cold does just one thing: It makes you feel worse than you have too.
That's exactly the opposite xD
That's why i dont take antibiotics for a small shit
|
On May 21 2015 21:55 VelJa wrote:
ok this question become something else
i'm not saying i dont take drugs cuz its manly, wtf
i'm saying i dont take drugs for minor injurys, because i think that when i will get a major one, drugs will be more effective cuz my body is not used to have help while fighting the infection.
Maybe my english is really bad and u dont get what i try to explain ><
Are you Catholic? You're describing a very Mother Theresa, "feel the pain and cherish it" mentality!
|
On May 21 2015 22:00 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 21:34 helpman175 wrote:
Anti-inflammatory drugs against the common cold are the worst.
Inflammation is a natural protective response by the body.
Why would any sane person get rid of that?
The same goes for decongestant drugs. The mucus forms a natural protective layer so that the infection cannot spread to other parts of the body such as the lungs.
So because it's natural and coming from the body, it's good?
It is the result of millions of years of evolution and far better tested than any drug out there.
If you would tell me that you understand all the molecular mechanisms that contribute to the common cold and you have designed a drug that targets those mechanisms without compromising others and you would have tailored that drug to my genetic composition, I would take that drug.
But as a matter of fact, we know ridiculously little about the molecular interactions and how drugs affect the body on a systemic level. Molecular biology is still in the Middle Ages. This won't change until we have tissue- or organism-wide real-time simulations of molecular interactions that allow us to draw complete pictures.
There is a reason why basically every drug out there has some side effect. Because we don't know shit about the human body.
|
On May 21 2015 22:11 helpman175 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 22:00 OtherWorld wrote:On May 21 2015 21:34 helpman175 wrote:
Anti-inflammatory drugs against the common cold are the worst.
Inflammation is a natural protective response by the body.
Why would any sane person get rid of that?
The same goes for decongestant drugs. The mucus forms a natural protective layer so that the infection cannot spread to other parts of the body such as the lungs.
So because it's natural and coming from the body, it's good? It is the result of millions of years of evolution and far better tested than any drug out there. If you would tell me that you understand all the molecular mechanisms that contribute to the common cold and you have designed a drug that targets those mechanisms without compromising others and you would have tailored that drug to my genetic composition, I would take that drug. But as a matter of fact, we know ridiculously little about the molecular interactions and how drugs affect the body on a systemic level. Molecular biology is still in the Middle Ages. This won't change until we have tissue- or organism-wide real-time simulations of molecular interactions that allow us to draw complete pictures. There is a reason why basically every drug out there has some side effect. Because we don't know shit about the human body.
Are you also an anti-vaxer?
You won't have stuff tailored to your 'genetic composition' as that makes no sense.
We know quite a bit about lots of processes in human body and how various drugs affect them, inhibit them or modify them.
It's very difficult to make a drug that has no side effects. You have a main effect that is super good and you try to minimize the side effects, but most probably you'll always have some. The process of creating a drug takes years, from finding out which active groups in an organic molecule are actually effective, to making a molecule that body actually can easily process, is stable, etc. You do all this via simulations and prediction of various effects depending on various groups in the molecule. Then when you have something you want to make you need to figure a way how to synthetise it in a reasonable way that is sustainable and can be done in industry level (no a couple of micrograms but kilograms of product). Then you need to test it for several years. This whole process takes years (speaking 8+, even 10+, I don't remember right now). And costs a -lot- of money.
Many of the processes can (and do) fail in the process and you have to start over, sometime wasting years of research and millions in money.
It's not like you tailor something that you will know will have this and only this effect on human body. Good luck with that.
|
I think it's different from drug to drug. Three examples that may illustrate. I am no medical doctor though. Just illustraions that I make up on the spot. 
- Taking panadol to lower the fewer against a common cold: I hardly doubt that will make you less resistant. The antibodies and whatnot are being produced anyway, and your immune defence is still activated as normal.
- Taking antibiotics against bacterial infections: Still not a big deal for you I'd think, but excessive widespread use worldwide can encourage strains that are immune to antibiotics, which kindof sucks. So well, don't take antibiotics as blanket cure, only when you think they are actually needed.
- The silly disinfectant mouthwash that kills the bacteria in your mouth. They also kill the good bacteria, and prolonged use knocks out the good bacteria, weakening your defence if you stop with the mouthwash, effectively making you addicted to it. (First is free).
So all in all, I think your question can have very different answers depending on exactly which medication we are talking about, and is probably better discussed with your doctor or at least pharmacist.
|
That said, if it is just a minor cold, I usually don't bother with painkillers either. But reason is more
- I can better track when I get better/worse.
- It is less likely that I get out and do things that I am really fit to do.
If it gets too annoying (painful, fever, whatever), I go to medication though.
|
@freestalker you say it, the long time it takes to create the drugs is an expression of how little we know about the interactions on a molecular level.
And no I'm not against vaccines. I'm aware that medicine is often required even if it is imperfect.
I'm against taking drugs on every occasion, just because we can (antibiotics, analgesics, antiinflammatories, decongestants, etc.)
|
The reason why drugs have side effects are actually largely because the receptors we want to target with our drugs are widespread in the body. We know exactly why many drugs have side effects and we also know that if we want to have their primary effect we are going to have to embrace the side-effects.
|
Im going to change name on LoL and i want to have "Liquid" at the start at my summoner name. Am i allowed to do it?
|
On May 21 2015 22:37 helpman175 wrote:
@freestalker you say it, the long time it takes to create the drugs is an expression of how little we know about the interactions on a molecular level.
And no I'm not against vaccines. I'm aware that medicine is often required even if it is imperfect.
I'm against taking drugs on every occasion, just because we can (antibiotics, analgesics, antiinflammatories, decongestants, etc.)
Well, I guess we both agree on the last part. ATB are a bit specific case, the others are situational and even though they 'only' remove the symptoms, the symptoms can be harmful.
The first part. I really doubt there'll be something like this for anything complex. I don't know what your knowledge of chemistry and organic synthesis is, but it is not possible and I doubt it'll be possible before mankind gets wiped out off this planet. The years in the process are spent doing all sorts of testing which on its own takes 4-5 years to prevent situations where you distribute something that is actually more harmful than helpful.
We often know which groups in the molecule are the 'effective' groups, but you can't just take them and put them in your body as the groups alone are not stable on their own and not metabolize-able.
|
On May 21 2015 22:11 helpman175 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 22:00 OtherWorld wrote:On May 21 2015 21:34 helpman175 wrote:
Anti-inflammatory drugs against the common cold are the worst.
Inflammation is a natural protective response by the body.
Why would any sane person get rid of that?
The same goes for decongestant drugs. The mucus forms a natural protective layer so that the infection cannot spread to other parts of the body such as the lungs.
So because it's natural and coming from the body, it's good? It is the result of millions of years of evolution and far better tested than any drug out there.
Ugh, the fallacy that natural = good/ ideal and artificial/ synthetic = bad/ worse.
Surely you can come up with a list of counterexamples to this idea?
Start with diseases/ disorders/ natural disasters vs. vaccines/ surgery/ any sort of technology everrrr.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
