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On June 22 2011 05:21 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 05:20 Nightfly wrote:On June 22 2011 05:11 Torte de Lini wrote:On June 22 2011 05:10 Nightfly wrote:On June 22 2011 04:51 Bibdy wrote:On June 22 2011 04:45 Nero. wrote:
i dont get why americans are trying so hard to not get a statutory health insurance system.
In most of Europe we have it for such a long time and nobody here is walking around in chains or lost their freedom because of it
it just feels like the states act very "medieval" about this topic
Because America, being the beacon of capitalism, has this propensity to believe that EVERYTHING should be run by private organizations, rather than the government. They don't take the time to realize that when you take an industry like healthcare and put it in the hands of financiers, accountants, corporations and general bean-counters who's only concern is profitability, you've completely eliminated humanity and compassion from the equation. Capitalism works great when you've got products/services to sell. Not so great when someone's livelihood is on the line. rofl. dont you need food as well to survive? can you buy food from CORPORATIONS or do you need it provided by your friendly government? The corporations are the middle-man, they're not doing very nice things to the bovine industry, dairy or agriculture industry. Good try. are you saying you have trouble buying food? do you want the government to provide food to all people? if not, why not, when it's clear that our very lives depend on food? corporations are not the middle-men... do you think it's the government that actually sells the food? The government doesn't actually provide anything, they only take and redistribute, oh and they get fucking rich beyond imagination in the process.
way to miss the point...
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Why couldn't he just move to canada?
Here in Canadia land we have free healthcare, so just move to Canada, solve all your problems (fer free!) and then just move back to were u live. Im not sure how much it costs to travel to canada from were he is, but im sure he can afford it in a 3 year period (I mean he spent 3 years in jail).
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On June 22 2011 05:16 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 05:08 On_Slaught wrote:
Didn't take long for this to turn into a US bashing thread. Is this a sad reality? Yes. Is EU style healthcare workable in a country the size of the US? Lol. Are there worse things that could happen? Yes.
Sadly we are a long ways from having a workable health care system that doesn't cause prices to rise. The EU is bigger than the US. Of course we're broken up into dozens of smaller countries which do things their own way but equally you guys are a federal state. The current system is broken, I think everyone can agree on that. It is neither free market nor public and the deep divisions and prejudices within American society keep it broken. End of the day, the problem is with the American people and their ability to cripple politician's attempts to fix it. That's not US bashing.
It's so true. Our healthcare system is broken, obama tries to fix it, and the process of fixing it gets so fucked up and now the opponents who were all trying to block it in the first place are pointing at it and screaming LOOK ITS STILL BROKEN OBAMA IS A FAILURE, and people LISTEN -_-;
Healthcare is only a single example, too. And this isn't just Republicans screwing over Democrats either - it goes both ways. 2-Party politics is fucking us over.
I feel like this also was why the government was originally planned (in the constitution) to be more state-based than federal-based. Different regions disagree on policy SO much, and nothing gets done as a result.
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On June 22 2011 05:25 Lucid90 wrote:
Why couldn't he just move to canada?
Here in Canadia land we have free healthcare, so just move to Canada, solve all your problems (fer free!) and then just move back to were u live. Im not sure how much it costs to travel to canada from were he is, but im sure he can afford it in a 3 year period (I mean he spent 3 years in jail).
Does free healthcare apply to anyone within the borders of Canada? Or only to citizens?
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I have a hard time believing something like this would work. It seems so surreal to game the system in such a major way. Of course, you'd have to go to prison, which does not sound like a very fun place, at least from what I've gathered by watching tv.
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On June 22 2011 05:15 AeonStrife wrote:
Its only going to get a lot worse/ridiculous before it gets better. Expect to hear more stories of the same caliber in the coming years.
Probably not, since most people in the country still jobs and those that don't or make very little will most likely qualify for medicaid. I've not seen any mention of the guy's status with that
On June 22 2011 05:16 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 05:08 On_Slaught wrote:
Didn't take long for this to turn into a US bashing thread. Is this a sad reality? Yes. Is EU style healthcare workable in a country the size of the US? Lol. Are there worse things that could happen? Yes.
Sadly we are a long ways from having a workable health care system that doesn't cause prices to rise. The EU is bigger than the US. Of course we're broken up into dozens of smaller countries which do things their own way but equally you guys are a federal state. The current system is broken, I think everyone can agree on that. It is neither free market nor public and the deep divisions and prejudices within American society keep it broken. End of the day, the problem is with the American people and their ability to cripple politician's attempts to fix it. That's not US bashing.
I'd say it's certainly more the politicians who are being prodded by well-funded lobbyists than anything else. I think most people agree that it's certainly broken in some fashion.
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It's quite normal! In Norway the prisons are quite luxurious, so its not really a punishment to go to prison if you don't mind to not travel around. You get everything you need and more so. Actually, the prisons are quite full, and people do crimes just to get to prison. And some actual criminals get let go because the prisons are full. So you basically end up with prisons full with former criminals, they wont have a chance to get a job outside after they've been to prison, so they do crimes only to get back in and live quite comfortably. Quite sad...
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On June 22 2011 05:24 Razith wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 05:21 domovoi wrote:On June 22 2011 05:18 Razith wrote:On June 22 2011 04:37 KwarK wrote:On June 22 2011 04:34 Razith wrote:
So what happened to all his money? Why couldn't he afford health care in the first place? Why does it matter? Better this way than him actually going out and robbing people. His situation was only going to deteriorate until death or crime, his solution is, as he said, logical. It matters because thats what put him in this situation; no money for his medical bills. Are the majority of Americans without some sort of medical insurance? Are the Americans here on TL.net without medical insurance? The vast majority of Americans are covered by insurance and/or government programs. The real problem in America is the huge rises in healthcare costs. So I fail to see any sympothay for this guy. He's 59 without any money and without any sort of medical insurance and its America's problem? Since when did life and financial planning fall into the resposibility of the government? What are the major causes of these rises in healthcare costs?
ye. Fuck that guy.
only the rich and privileged deserve healthcare
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On June 22 2011 05:24 Treemonkeys wrote:
Anyone who still thinks private corporations run healthcare in the USA doesn't have a damn clue and has never tried to run a private practice. The government controls everything, that is why prices are so high, well...one of the many reasons.
How can one person be so wrong, so many times, in two sentences?
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On June 22 2011 05:25 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 05:25 Lucid90 wrote:
Why couldn't he just move to canada?
Here in Canadia land we have free healthcare, so just move to Canada, solve all your problems (fer free!) and then just move back to were u live. Im not sure how much it costs to travel to canada from were he is, but im sure he can afford it in a 3 year period (I mean he spent 3 years in jail). Does free healthcare apply to anyone within the borders of Canada? Or only to citizens?
I think you have to live there for 6 months.
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The obvious answer is to cut govt spending and waste by not providing health care to criminals.
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On June 22 2011 05:23 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +It matters because thats what put him in this situation; no money for his medical bills. Are the majority of Americans without some sort of medical insurance? Are the Americans here on TL.net without medical insurance? about 20% of americans are without some form of health insurance these are easy statistics to find try to find out on your own before asking misconceived questions i have no money for a place to sleep but i cant or wont meet the conditions necessary to get government housing i go rob a convenience store to get into jail to have a place to live is this an indictment of me or the system? this guy sounds like he's not very smart, from what the msnbc story says he would have qualified for some kind of state or federal public health insurance
I already knew it before asking, its to make a point.
People keep putting the blame in the wrong place. Everyone thinks "Sad that this guy has no money and can't get his medical help, good for him for making a stand", while I'm thinking, "Why is this guy 59 without any money and medical insurance".
You live in a country where you know this is how medical coverage works. Why wouldn't you be prepared for it?
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On June 22 2011 05:27 Noped wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 05:24 Treemonkeys wrote:
Anyone who still thinks private corporations run healthcare in the USA doesn't have a damn clue and has never tried to run a private practice. The government controls everything, that is why prices are so high, well...one of the many reasons. How can one person be so wrong, so many times, in two sentences?
Nice argument dude, do you have any idea how many rules private practices have to follow? How much it costs to follow them? How often the government changes them? How much it costs to keep up with the changes? No, you don't.
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Depends on the site he's in he might not have any healthcare really as an inmate.
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What are the major causes of these rises in healthcare costs?
Baby Boomers are starting to get into their early-to-late 60s (lots and lots of new health conditions that need to be treated, and the elderly tend to go to the doctor A LOT), new technologies and products coming out at an amazing rate, exorbitant liability insurance, overuse of diagnostic tests, overregulation of the market that limits consumer choice, and health care providers having to pick up the tab for the uninsured which they pass on to the insurance companies who pass it on to the consumer.
Basically people lacking insurance is a problem but solving it with some big government spending program and not solving the other problems would be horrible, and that's what Obamacare will do.
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On June 22 2011 05:27 dogabutila wrote:
The obvious answer is to cut govt spending and waste by not providing health care to criminals.
Or create a prison basketball league to compete with the NBA.
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To my knowledge, the tax in USA is a lot smaller than Canada or EU. At the same time, stereo-typically (correct me if I'm wrong), most Americans own 2 or more cars right? And the cars might be pickup trucks or just cars that are inefficient. It just appears that Americans "seemly" have more money, less tax, buys more luxury items, whereas in Canada or EU or other countries with "free healthcare" don't have as much money for personal use as Americans do.
So to me, it would appear that it's not really "fully" the government's fault. But rather it would appear (Correct me if I'm wrong) that most Americans want less tax, more money to themselves to spend on luxury items. But with this system, universal free healthcare would be near impossible due to lack of funding (from low tax).
Am I wrong here?
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On June 22 2011 05:26 KimJongChill wrote:
I have a hard time believing something like this would work. It seems so surreal to game the system in such a major way. Of course, you'd have to go to prison, which does not sound like a very fun place, at least from what I've gathered by watching tv.
Yeah funnily enough a U.S president trying to increase taxes by 10-15% to fund public health care is about as unlikely to get elected as a head of state in a country with public health care would be if they wanted to decrease taxes by 10-15% to remove it ^^
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On June 22 2011 05:24 Razith wrote:
What are the major causes of these rises in healthcare costs?
All the fucking old people whose medical costs are covered by Medicare and/or Cadillac insurance plans with absolutely zero oversight. I would have more faith in a national healthcare system if I were confident our political system would be willing to make the hard decisions and not pay for certain services. Unfortunately, old people have a ton of political influence, which is it's impossible to reform Medicare.
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On June 22 2011 04:51 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 04:45 Nero. wrote:
i dont get why americans are trying so hard to not get a statutory health insurance system.
In most of Europe we have it for such a long time and nobody here is walking around in chains or lost their freedom because of it
it just feels like the states act very "medieval" about this topic
Because America, being the beacon of capitalism, has this propensity to believe that EVERYTHING should be run by private organizations, rather than the government. They don't take the time to realize that when you take an industry like healthcare and put it in the hands of financiers, accountants, corporations and general bean-counters who's only concern is profitability, you've completely eliminated humanity and compassion from the equation. Capitalism works great when you've got products/services to sell. Not so great when someone's livelihood is on the line.
This, this and this!
The main purpose and goal of a nations healthcare must ALWAYS be to make people healthier, not to make money.
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EPT
