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On June 05 2011 16:09 d(O.o)a wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 16:05 ewswes wrote:On June 05 2011 16:02 d(O.o)a wrote:On June 05 2011 16:00 ewswes wrote:
to everyone saying that people would take this more seriously if the genders were reversed:
that's true, but don't you think that in this situation, the victim will be affected/traumatized much less than if the genders were reversed?
A boy being stripped by 3 girls simply isn't going to feel that awful about it compared to if a girl was stripped by 3 boys IMO.. This is a boy who has not yet reached puberty, he has no sexual desires towards these girls and certainly doesn't have some rape fantasy. I guarantee you this will mentally scar him, not just because of the fact that he was essentially raped, but also because everybody who was outside that day, as well as everybody who saw the video on the girl's phone, everybody who saw the video on youtube and everybody who heard about the story is going to be making fun of him until he gets out of highschool and that's a traumatic experience in itself. yea, but that's no different than being bullied which occurs all the time. what the boy experienced was no different than any other bullying experience, but what a girl experiences if she's forcibly stripped by 3 boys would be much more traumatizing than mere bullying. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! It's these kind of statements that ruin this world. This is NOT bullying, this is RAPE regardless of how you look at it. Guess what guys can be raped too, regardless of what you think. I don't know about you, but before puberty, I would've been extremely traumatized by girls even looking at my penis, let alone showing it to the whole school. The video the posted on youtube? It's child pornography, whether you agree or not. It is child pornography. Even disregarding that, the boy clearly was forced into a situation he didn't want to be in, he was squirming to get away, but the two larger girls held him down. How is this any different than a girl being held down by 2 larger guys and having her clothes forcibly removed? And don't just say "well, she's a girl" or anything to that idea. THAT is sexism.
i think your type of viewpoint is common in this thread and its a simplified way of looking at things
It's not sexism to say that due to the gender constructs formed by this society, men and women react to things differently.
rape, actual rape(this news story was not rape) of an adult woman forcing herself on an adult man is MUCH less traumatizing to the victim than if the gender role is reversed.
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Guys, screw the 3 guys stripping 1 girl logic.
IF IT'S 3 OLDER BOY STRIPPING ONE BOY THEN I BET THE MOTHER IS GOING TO PRESS CHARGES.
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Have you ever noticed how there are some kids that never managed to get bullied? Why is that? I investigated theorized and it worked for me. Later on, when I took evolutionary biology classes at university my beliefs were validated.
User was banned for this post.
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On June 05 2011 16:14 ewswes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 16:09 d(O.o)a wrote:On June 05 2011 16:05 ewswes wrote:On June 05 2011 16:02 d(O.o)a wrote:On June 05 2011 16:00 ewswes wrote:
to everyone saying that people would take this more seriously if the genders were reversed:
that's true, but don't you think that in this situation, the victim will be affected/traumatized much less than if the genders were reversed?
A boy being stripped by 3 girls simply isn't going to feel that awful about it compared to if a girl was stripped by 3 boys IMO.. This is a boy who has not yet reached puberty, he has no sexual desires towards these girls and certainly doesn't have some rape fantasy. I guarantee you this will mentally scar him, not just because of the fact that he was essentially raped, but also because everybody who was outside that day, as well as everybody who saw the video on the girl's phone, everybody who saw the video on youtube and everybody who heard about the story is going to be making fun of him until he gets out of highschool and that's a traumatic experience in itself. yea, but that's no different than being bullied which occurs all the time. what the boy experienced was no different than any other bullying experience, but what a girl experiences if she's forcibly stripped by 3 boys would be much more traumatizing than mere bullying. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! It's these kind of statements that ruin this world. This is NOT bullying, this is RAPE regardless of how you look at it. Guess what guys can be raped too, regardless of what you think. I don't know about you, but before puberty, I would've been extremely traumatized by girls even looking at my penis, let alone showing it to the whole school. The video the posted on youtube? It's child pornography, whether you agree or not. It is child pornography. Even disregarding that, the boy clearly was forced into a situation he didn't want to be in, he was squirming to get away, but the two larger girls held him down. How is this any different than a girl being held down by 2 larger guys and having her clothes forcibly removed? And don't just say "well, she's a girl" or anything to that idea. THAT is sexism. i think your type of viewpoint is common in this thread and its a simplified way of looking at things It's not sexism to say that due to the gender constructs formed by this society, men and women react to things differently. rape, actual rape(this news story was not rape) of an adult woman forcing herself on an adult man is MUCH less traumatizing to the victim than if the gender role is reversed.
o.O
So, assuming you're not blowing smoke out your ass, do you have any source for this?
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On June 05 2011 16:14 ewswes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 16:09 d(O.o)a wrote:On June 05 2011 16:05 ewswes wrote:On June 05 2011 16:02 d(O.o)a wrote:On June 05 2011 16:00 ewswes wrote:
to everyone saying that people would take this more seriously if the genders were reversed:
that's true, but don't you think that in this situation, the victim will be affected/traumatized much less than if the genders were reversed?
A boy being stripped by 3 girls simply isn't going to feel that awful about it compared to if a girl was stripped by 3 boys IMO.. This is a boy who has not yet reached puberty, he has no sexual desires towards these girls and certainly doesn't have some rape fantasy. I guarantee you this will mentally scar him, not just because of the fact that he was essentially raped, but also because everybody who was outside that day, as well as everybody who saw the video on the girl's phone, everybody who saw the video on youtube and everybody who heard about the story is going to be making fun of him until he gets out of highschool and that's a traumatic experience in itself. yea, but that's no different than being bullied which occurs all the time. what the boy experienced was no different than any other bullying experience, but what a girl experiences if she's forcibly stripped by 3 boys would be much more traumatizing than mere bullying. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! It's these kind of statements that ruin this world. This is NOT bullying, this is RAPE regardless of how you look at it. Guess what guys can be raped too, regardless of what you think. I don't know about you, but before puberty, I would've been extremely traumatized by girls even looking at my penis, let alone showing it to the whole school. The video the posted on youtube? It's child pornography, whether you agree or not. It is child pornography. Even disregarding that, the boy clearly was forced into a situation he didn't want to be in, he was squirming to get away, but the two larger girls held him down. How is this any different than a girl being held down by 2 larger guys and having her clothes forcibly removed? And don't just say "well, she's a girl" or anything to that idea. THAT is sexism. i think your type of viewpoint is common in this thread and its a simplified way of looking at things It's not sexism to say that due to the gender constructs formed by this society, men and women react to things differently. rape, actual rape(this news story was not rape) of an adult woman forcing herself on an adult man is MUCH less traumatizing to the victim than if the gender role is reversed.
Just because something is less common and men who are raped are less vocal does not mean that the effects are any lesser.
Before a man begins to get testosterone pumped in his body during puberty they are not much different from women before they get estrogen flowing throughout them.
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Vatican City State733 Posts
On June 05 2011 16:14 jaybee2 wrote:
Have you ever noticed how there are some kids that never managed to get bullied? Why is that? I investigated theorized and it worked for me. Later on, when I took evolutionary biology classes at university my beliefs were validated.
I'm assuming you went to one of those unaccredited universities in Wyoming where they teach you that the Earth is flat and bloodletting is a viable medical treatment?
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On June 05 2011 16:09 GGTesomas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 16:01 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:48 GGTesomas wrote:On June 05 2011 15:35 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:33 travis wrote:On June 05 2011 15:31 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:28 stormtemplar wrote:On June 05 2011 15:25 Daimiru wrote:
also, fyi: the 4chan /b/ "if the genders were reversed..." logic is actually pretty misogynist, or at the least fairly ignorant of gender history; there are lots of relevant reasons one might express greater concern if this were 4 older boys and a young girl. having said that, one lesson to take from that is that we apply sex offender status to freely to minors in America. We apply criminal punishment too freely in general in the USA and if you try and change it the masses go: SOFT ON CRIMEEEEE!!!!! EVIIIIIIIILNESSS yeah exactly, given how many people we put in prison vis-a-vis the rest of the developed world how messed up is that the internet would latch on to some news cycle interest piece and be like WHY AREN'T THESE MINORS IN PRISON?! If it was 13-14 year old boys stripping down an 11 year old girl every single person here(except the most obvious of trolls) would be screaming it should be taken to court. 1. yes, because that would actually be different in the context of real historical gender issues 2. but i wouldn't if I thought the court system was going to deliver the boys sex offender status instead of therapy, which is what would be actually needed in such a case If a person tried to argue that "real historical gender issues" meant that a woman should face court in a situation but a man shouldn't, that person would be buried in a media shitstorm. Quite frankly, I don't think looking to history is very useful here. Broad historical trends aren't so useful in examining individual cases because these isolated incidents are so narrow in focus to be quite frank literally 99% of what justice systems do is look at history Looking at history and using broad historical trends and justification for harsher punishments for certain group are two very different things. Examining history is essential for understanding and interpreting the spirit of the law to be sure. However, in the context of individual cases applying broad trends is not acceptable or just precisely because these cases are of such a small scope.
well there's two lines of thought that you're convoluting here and in previous posts
1. "if a person tried to argue that real historical gender issues meant that woman should face court in a situation but man shouldn't, that person would be buried in a media shitstorm." that's correct, it's fortunate then that I'm not that person, nor said anything that was obviously equivalent to this; if you feel otherwise you should point it out explicitly instead of implying it
2. "broad historical trends aren't so useful for examining individual cases..." maybe, but regardless of this it would be hard to argue that in cases of male-on-female sexual violence a court is not operating in the context of thousands of years of history of male-on-female sexual violence, which (not incorrectly) colours its perceptions. at any rate, my invocation of gender history was limited to how it would affect popular perception, and not specifically the judgement of a court body
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On June 05 2011 16:14 Tenhou wrote:
Guys, screw the 3 guys stripping 1 girl logic.
IF IT'S 3 OLDER BOY STRIPPING ONE BOY THEN I BET THE MOTHER IS GOING TO PRESS CHARGES.
This is a good point as well, and also very true.
On June 05 2011 16:14 jaybee2 wrote:
Have you ever noticed how there are some kids that never managed to get bullied? Why is that? I investigated theorized and it worked for me. Later on, when I took evolutionary biology classes at university my beliefs were validated.
Than copy/paste your research, clearly you must have some if you "investigated and theorized"
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This is why I hate Florida..
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On June 05 2011 16:14 jaybee2 wrote:
Have you ever noticed how there are some kids that never managed to get bullied? Why is that? I investigated theorized and it worked for me. Later on, when I took evolutionary biology classes at university my beliefs were validated.
Once again, you're not really confronting the dirtier parts of your beliefs. If you answer in the positive to those, then sure your beliefs are consistent but certainly fucked up, otherwise you're just inconsistent and full of shit.
Refer to my earlier posts to see what I'm talking about.
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Vatican City State733 Posts
On June 05 2011 16:16 Daimiru wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 16:09 GGTesomas wrote:On June 05 2011 16:01 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:48 GGTesomas wrote:On June 05 2011 15:35 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:33 travis wrote:On June 05 2011 15:31 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:28 stormtemplar wrote:On June 05 2011 15:25 Daimiru wrote:
also, fyi: the 4chan /b/ "if the genders were reversed..." logic is actually pretty misogynist, or at the least fairly ignorant of gender history; there are lots of relevant reasons one might express greater concern if this were 4 older boys and a young girl. having said that, one lesson to take from that is that we apply sex offender status to freely to minors in America. We apply criminal punishment too freely in general in the USA and if you try and change it the masses go: SOFT ON CRIMEEEEE!!!!! EVIIIIIIIILNESSS yeah exactly, given how many people we put in prison vis-a-vis the rest of the developed world how messed up is that the internet would latch on to some news cycle interest piece and be like WHY AREN'T THESE MINORS IN PRISON?! If it was 13-14 year old boys stripping down an 11 year old girl every single person here(except the most obvious of trolls) would be screaming it should be taken to court. 1. yes, because that would actually be different in the context of real historical gender issues 2. but i wouldn't if I thought the court system was going to deliver the boys sex offender status instead of therapy, which is what would be actually needed in such a case If a person tried to argue that "real historical gender issues" meant that a woman should face court in a situation but a man shouldn't, that person would be buried in a media shitstorm. Quite frankly, I don't think looking to history is very useful here. Broad historical trends aren't so useful in examining individual cases because these isolated incidents are so narrow in focus to be quite frank literally 99% of what justice systems do is look at history Looking at history and using broad historical trends and justification for harsher punishments for certain group are two very different things. Examining history is essential for understanding and interpreting the spirit of the law to be sure. However, in the context of individual cases applying broad trends is not acceptable or just precisely because these cases are of such a small scope. well there's two lines of thought that you're convoluting here and in previous posts 1. "if a person tried to argue that real historical gender issues meant that woman should face court in a situation but man shouldn't, that person would be buried in a media shitstorm." that's correct, it's fortunate then that I'm not that person, nor said anything that was obviously equivalent to this; if you feel otherwise you should point it out explicitly instead of implying it 2. "broad historical trends aren't so useful for examining individual cases..." maybe, but regardless of this it would be hard to argue that in cases of male-on-female sexual violence a court is not operating in the context of thousands of years of history of male-on-female sexual violence, which (not incorrectly) colours its perceptions. at any rate, my invocation of gender history was limited to how it would affect popular perception, and not specifically the judgement of a court body
1)Wasn't trying to imply anything of the sort
2)I see, I understand a little better where you are coming from then. My understanding was that you were discussing what is just, not public perception
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On June 05 2011 16:17 d(O.o)a wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 16:14 Tenhou wrote:
Guys, screw the 3 guys stripping 1 girl logic.
IF IT'S 3 OLDER BOY STRIPPING ONE BOY THEN I BET THE MOTHER IS GOING TO PRESS CHARGES.
This is a good point as well, and also very true. Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 16:14 jaybee2 wrote:
Have you ever noticed how there are some kids that never managed to get bullied? Why is that? I investigated theorized and it worked for me. Later on, when I took evolutionary biology classes at university my beliefs were validated. Than copy/paste your research, clearly you must have some if you "investigated and theorized"
I am not going to paste everything. If really want the book i guess i can post the link. I gave my reasoning but nobody says what they disagree with. Only that I am stupid. I thought it would be easy to disprove a stupid idea but I guess I have stayed up late for nothing.
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On June 05 2011 16:19 Dusty1337 wrote:
This is why I hate Florida..
What is that supposed to mean at all?
I mean, hating Florida because 3 stupid 8th grade girls live there really does not make sense. I feel like you are just trying to flame Florida for no reason. this is kinda supposed to be a discussion about the "rape" of that boy.
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This thread seems to be divided between writing this off as a stupid prank gone too far and pressing charges in pursuit of a ridiculously severe punishment: juvi, sex offendor registry, expulsion, etc. I believe that neither side is correct. If you write it off as a prank then the girls don't learn a lesson because you're essentially making an excuse for them with the old "kids will be kids.." However, there is also no need to try to ruin their lives for what they probably thought was just some playground antics..
Imo the best solution/punishment is to make these girls realize what they did and force them to feel shame/regret for it. They should be forced to meet with school officials and have a long sit down with their parents present, forced to attend some counselling, etc. It's extremely embarrassing to have to put on your best clothes and go into a room full of adults including your parents and explain why you stripped an 11 year old boy, with the room dead silent and everyone looking at you like you're a rapist. I heard about this story from another site before this one so it has seemingly gone viral and that's pretty good justice in itself. When these girls go out in public and start getting glares and here people whispering about them they will probably feel the same humiliation that that boy felt and hopefully that will allow them to empathize with the kid and teach them that what they did was wrong.
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On June 05 2011 14:46 vetinari wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 14:43 Hakker wrote:
Justice? punishment? they just took the kids clothes off lol
if anything in 5 years he'll look back on how lucky he was.
3 14 year old boys forcibly restrain and remove the clothes of an 11 year old girl, and they go on the sex offenders register. 3 14 year old girls forcibly restrain and remove the clothes of an 11 year old boy, and its a harmless prank that maybe got a little bit out of hand.
Yea dude im fucking pissed off so badly right now. Might as well have raped the poor kid, but i guess its ok because theyre girls. Fucking mysandristic society makes me so mad. Its the reason im moving away from america as soon as i finish school.
I cant stand the double standards
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On June 05 2011 16:20 jaybee2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 16:17 d(O.o)a wrote:On June 05 2011 16:14 Tenhou wrote:
Guys, screw the 3 guys stripping 1 girl logic.
IF IT'S 3 OLDER BOY STRIPPING ONE BOY THEN I BET THE MOTHER IS GOING TO PRESS CHARGES.
This is a good point as well, and also very true. On June 05 2011 16:14 jaybee2 wrote:
Have you ever noticed how there are some kids that never managed to get bullied? Why is that? I investigated theorized and it worked for me. Later on, when I took evolutionary biology classes at university my beliefs were validated. Than copy/paste your research, clearly you must have some if you "investigated and theorized" I am not going to paste everything. If really want the book i guess i can post the link. I gave my reasoning but nobody says what they disagree with. Only that I am stupid. I thought it would be easy to disprove a stupid idea but I guess I have stayed up late for nothing.
How about you actually clear up what your view as a whole is so we can determine if you're inconsistent or idiotic...
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On June 05 2011 16:20 jaybee2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 16:17 d(O.o)a wrote:On June 05 2011 16:14 Tenhou wrote:
Guys, screw the 3 guys stripping 1 girl logic.
IF IT'S 3 OLDER BOY STRIPPING ONE BOY THEN I BET THE MOTHER IS GOING TO PRESS CHARGES.
This is a good point as well, and also very true. On June 05 2011 16:14 jaybee2 wrote:
Have you ever noticed how there are some kids that never managed to get bullied? Why is that? I investigated theorized and it worked for me. Later on, when I took evolutionary biology classes at university my beliefs were validated. Than copy/paste your research, clearly you must have some if you "investigated and theorized" I am not going to paste everything. If really want the book i guess i can post the link. I gave my reasoning but nobody says what they disagree with. Only that I am stupid. I thought it would be easy to disprove a stupid idea but I guess I have stayed up late for nothing.
Your own idea is flawed. I was a bully in elementary school, I didn't bully people because they were weak I bullied them because of where they were from, if they were different, or even just because they got a better lunch than me one day.
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The girls won't be disciplined?
What?
...
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 05 2011 16:10 jaybee2 wrote:
Oh man that blew up in face real quick. I was typing a story of me being bullied and what I learned but when I finished I was banned. I understand your disgust of me, people have been conditioned against different ideas. The stupid troll accusation is the go to response of those without arguments. It is very McCarthyesque as its hard to prove your true intentions.
When Darwin proposed his origin of species he was confronted the same way. ' You are an idiot to believe we come from apes. Just look its obvious we aren't apes etc etc. ' Please learn from these events and realize that we all may be wrong, even if we are sure that we are right. The one difference between truth and lies is that truth likes to be tested. I think we owe it as an intellectual species to always question what we believe, so that we may better ourselves. I wasn't trying to put my ideas in your face i responded like every else did once then answered some questions.
Here is my reasoning please call me idiot, but also tell me what you disagree with.
Bullying happens for a reason.
The reason is evolutionary. (all social animals do it)
Because it happens for a reason there is a way to avoid it.
Instead of attacking the bullies it would be more practical to learn not how to bullied.
I never said it was right that they did that. I just said with him being that way is it of no surprise.
You can ip ban me shortly after so i never ' troll' again. But I want my ideas to be tested too. If I am wrong I would like to know. Thank you.
At no point during your previous posts did you make it obvious that you thought what happened was wrong, nor did you frame your posts in what would be considered an acceptable way - rather you called the kid 'pathetic'.
Also, your post about how it would never have happened to a popular 5th grader... I dont know how the US school system works, but as a 14 year old I had 0 contact with any 10 year olds, because we didnt go to the same school, so how the hell would they know whether hes popular or not? This is completely disregarding the fact that it should have no bearing on whether or not this should happen, I am simply pointing out that what you seem to think would be a good defense against this type of stuff, would be completely moot if they did not know their victim.
Yes, you are getting banned again.
On June 05 2011 16:22 BlackJack wrote:
This thread seems to be divided between writing this off as a stupid prank gone too far and pressing charges in pursuit of a ridiculously severe punishment: juvi, sex offendor registry, expulsion, etc. I believe that neither side is correct. If you write it off as a prank then the girls don't learn a lesson because you're essentially making an excuse for them with the old "kids will be kids.." However, there is also no need to try to ruin their lives for what they probably thought was just some playground antics..
Imo the best solution/punishment is to make these girls realize what they did and force them to feel shame/regret for it. They should be forced to meet with school officials and have a long sit down with their parents present, forced to attend some counselling, etc. It's extremely embarrassing to have to put on your best clothes and go into a room full of adults including your parents and explain why you stripped an 11 year old boy, with the room dead silent and everyone looking at you like you're a rapist. I heard about this story from another site before this one so it has seemingly gone viral and that's pretty good justice in itself. When these girls go out in public and start getting glares and here people whispering about them they will probably feel the same humiliation that that boy felt and hopefully that will allow them to empathize with the kid and teach them that what they did was wrong.
I agree with this (although if it happened to me personally I would have 100% sought personal revenge).
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On June 05 2011 16:14 ewswes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 16:09 d(O.o)a wrote:On June 05 2011 16:05 ewswes wrote:On June 05 2011 16:02 d(O.o)a wrote:On June 05 2011 16:00 ewswes wrote:
to everyone saying that people would take this more seriously if the genders were reversed:
that's true, but don't you think that in this situation, the victim will be affected/traumatized much less than if the genders were reversed?
A boy being stripped by 3 girls simply isn't going to feel that awful about it compared to if a girl was stripped by 3 boys IMO.. This is a boy who has not yet reached puberty, he has no sexual desires towards these girls and certainly doesn't have some rape fantasy. I guarantee you this will mentally scar him, not just because of the fact that he was essentially raped, but also because everybody who was outside that day, as well as everybody who saw the video on the girl's phone, everybody who saw the video on youtube and everybody who heard about the story is going to be making fun of him until he gets out of highschool and that's a traumatic experience in itself. yea, but that's no different than being bullied which occurs all the time. what the boy experienced was no different than any other bullying experience, but what a girl experiences if she's forcibly stripped by 3 boys would be much more traumatizing than mere bullying. T ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! It's these kind of statements that ruin this world. This is NOT bullying, this is RAPE regardless of how you look at it. Guess what guys can be raped too, regardless of what you think. I don't know about you, but before puberty, I would've been extremely traumatized by girls even looking at my penis, let alone showing it to the whole school. The video the posted on youtube? It's child pornography, whether you agree or not. It is child pornography. Even disregarding that, the boy clearly was forced into a situation he didn't want to be in, he was squirming to get away, but the two larger girls held him down. How is this any different than a girl being held down by 2 larger guys and having her clothes forcibly removed? And don't just say "well, she's a girl" or anything to that idea. THAT is sexism. i think your type of viewpoint is common in this thread and its a simplified way of looking at things It's not sexism to say that due to the gender constructs formed by this society, men and women react to things differently. rape, actual rape(this news story was not rape) of an adult woman forcing herself on an adult man is MUCH less traumatizing to the victim than if the gender role is reversed.
Please help us rid this world of people like you and stop breeding.
You're going of the notion that every man wants every woman.. i would be very traumatized if a fat chick tried to even hint the notion of my clothing removal.
The girls should have had rape charges, and the mom should have taken action. It's like saying slavery wouldn't have been wrong if the blacks controlled the whites. or vice versa. (i'm white) both sides are wrong, just like both SEXES are capable of rape and this to EITHER SEX should be punished.
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EPT
