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Vatican City State733 Posts
On June 05 2011 15:35 Daimiru wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 15:33 travis wrote:On June 05 2011 15:31 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:28 stormtemplar wrote:On June 05 2011 15:25 Daimiru wrote:
also, fyi: the 4chan /b/ "if the genders were reversed..." logic is actually pretty misogynist, or at the least fairly ignorant of gender history; there are lots of relevant reasons one might express greater concern if this were 4 older boys and a young girl. having said that, one lesson to take from that is that we apply sex offender status to freely to minors in America. We apply criminal punishment too freely in general in the USA and if you try and change it the masses go: SOFT ON CRIMEEEEE!!!!! EVIIIIIIIILNESSS yeah exactly, given how many people we put in prison vis-a-vis the rest of the developed world how messed up is that the internet would latch on to some news cycle interest piece and be like WHY AREN'T THESE MINORS IN PRISON?! If it was 13-14 year old boys stripping down an 11 year old girl every single person here(except the most obvious of trolls) would be screaming it should be taken to court. 1. yes, because that would actually be different in the context of real historical gender issues 2. but i wouldn't if I thought the court system was going to deliver the boys sex offender status instead of therapy, which is what would be actually needed in such a case
If a person tried to argue that "real historical gender issues" meant that a woman should face court in a situation but a man shouldn't, that person would be buried in a media shitstorm. Quite frankly, I don't think looking to history is very useful here. Broad historical trends aren't so useful in examining individual cases because these isolated incidents are so narrow in focus
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On June 05 2011 15:36 travis wrote:
I love how people even dare to make this a sexual thing/age related. Do you guys actually think it would be fun to be forcibly stripped by 3 girls/women while filmed and then have it uploaded to youtube? Are you guys HONESTLY that stupid?
Travis, we love you but this thread is now entirely composed of trolls.
I'm going to step out while I can.
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On June 05 2011 15:43 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 15:36 travis wrote:
I love how people even dare to make this a sexual thing/age related. Do you guys actually think it would be fun to be forcibly stripped by 3 girls/women while filmed and then have it uploaded to youtube? Are you guys HONESTLY that stupid? I dunno if stupid is the word i'd use. Some people have some weird fantasies/fetishes, for example you can't say someone who is into urolagnia is less intelligent than someone who isn't. Not to say that it is normal, natural, or even that it isn't. Simply that it has absolutely no correlation with intelligence. For all you know, many men would be into that kind of thing. /shrug
Mostly, its because people don't think the situation quite through.
Men think, "3 women stripping me? A foursome? FUCK YEAH!"
But they don't realise this: the situation is meant to be humiliating. And you can quite easily think of ways to make 3 women stripping a man be very, very humiliating.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 05 2011 15:48 Kimaker wrote:
While as pissed off as that made me, I liked the moms response. Parents, when they're doing their jobs right, will make the courts look like Shangri La wrapped in happy fun candy for shit like this.
Sadly, this is probably me just wishfully thinking about the mean level of parenting in the world T_T
Parents that raised kids that fucked up arent likely to do much right, unfortunately -_-
Yes, its not always the parents fault but theres a decent chance that it is!
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On June 05 2011 15:45 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 15:35 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:33 travis wrote:On June 05 2011 15:31 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:28 stormtemplar wrote:On June 05 2011 15:25 Daimiru wrote:
also, fyi: the 4chan /b/ "if the genders were reversed..." logic is actually pretty misogynist, or at the least fairly ignorant of gender history; there are lots of relevant reasons one might express greater concern if this were 4 older boys and a young girl. having said that, one lesson to take from that is that we apply sex offender status to freely to minors in America. We apply criminal punishment too freely in general in the USA and if you try and change it the masses go: SOFT ON CRIMEEEEE!!!!! EVIIIIIIIILNESSS yeah exactly, given how many people we put in prison vis-a-vis the rest of the developed world how messed up is that the internet would latch on to some news cycle interest piece and be like WHY AREN'T THESE MINORS IN PRISON?! If it was 13-14 year old boys stripping down an 11 year old girl every single person here(except the most obvious of trolls) would be screaming it should be taken to court. 1. yes, because that would actually be different in the context of real historical gender issues what the FUUUUUUUCK does that mean Show nested quote +
2. but i wouldn't if I thought the court system was going to deliver the boys sex offender status instead of therapy, which is what would be actually needed in such a case
I respectfully disagree. 13-14 year olds know pretty damn well that stripping a child down is FUCKED UP. They made need therapy too, but it's damn well clear that they're sex offenders.
I dunno, the label shouldn't be attached to anyone at that young an age. Yeah they know it's probably bad but they, realistically, don't really understand HOW bad or why.
Yes, I would argue the same for males. They should be forced to get therapy. they really, really, really, shouldn't have to enter into a system that could label them for the rest of their lives....
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The mother is the real criminal.
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On June 05 2011 15:49 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 15:45 travis wrote:On June 05 2011 15:35 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:33 travis wrote:On June 05 2011 15:31 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:28 stormtemplar wrote:On June 05 2011 15:25 Daimiru wrote:
also, fyi: the 4chan /b/ "if the genders were reversed..." logic is actually pretty misogynist, or at the least fairly ignorant of gender history; there are lots of relevant reasons one might express greater concern if this were 4 older boys and a young girl. having said that, one lesson to take from that is that we apply sex offender status to freely to minors in America. We apply criminal punishment too freely in general in the USA and if you try and change it the masses go: SOFT ON CRIMEEEEE!!!!! EVIIIIIIIILNESSS yeah exactly, given how many people we put in prison vis-a-vis the rest of the developed world how messed up is that the internet would latch on to some news cycle interest piece and be like WHY AREN'T THESE MINORS IN PRISON?! If it was 13-14 year old boys stripping down an 11 year old girl every single person here(except the most obvious of trolls) would be screaming it should be taken to court. 1. yes, because that would actually be different in the context of real historical gender issues what the FUUUUUUUCK does that mean
2. but i wouldn't if I thought the court system was going to deliver the boys sex offender status instead of therapy, which is what would be actually needed in such a case
I respectfully disagree. 13-14 year olds know pretty damn well that stripping a child down is FUCKED UP. They made need therapy too, but it's damn well clear that they're sex offenders. I dunno, the label shouldn't be attached to anyone at that young an age. Yeah they know it's probably bad but they, realistically, don't really understand HOW bad or why. Yes, I would argue the same for males. They should be forced to get therapy. they really, really, really, shouldn't have to enter into a system that could label them for the rest of their lives....
While I agree that it's rough and it sucks that things work like that, the system isn't there so much as punishment, but rather as protection for everyone else (im not so sure how well that works though).
If I had a child, and my neighbors teenage kid had forcibly stripped another child, I would damn well want to know about it.
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Is it bad that while this kid is screaming his lungs out, Id be fucking cheering. Well change the age of the girls abit like 6 years but still.
Idk its a weird thing. Because now pretty sure this kids gonna be gay when he grows up, or a pedophile for 14 year olds. Why cant boys understand that girls are awesome. I had a gf at 11....
User was warned for this post
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On June 05 2011 15:49 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 15:48 Kimaker wrote:
While as pissed off as that made me, I liked the moms response. Parents, when they're doing their jobs right, will make the courts look like Shangri La wrapped in happy fun candy for shit like this.
Sadly, this is probably me just wishfully thinking about the mean level of parenting in the world T_T Parents that raised kids that fucked up arent likely to do much right, unfortunately -_- Yes, its not always the parents fault but theres a decent chance that it is!
I agree. If you did your job as a parent, you would hope that your kid wouldn't be fucked up enough to strip down some kid three years younger on the side of the road and video tape it.
I would guesstimate at least one of the girls won't get more than a slap on the wrist from her parents.
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On June 05 2011 15:46 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 15:35 ZiegFeld wrote:On June 05 2011 15:29 Emporio wrote:On June 05 2011 15:15 ZiegFeld wrote:On June 05 2011 15:08 DeepBlu2 wrote:On June 05 2011 15:05 ZiegFeld wrote:
The only thing wrong with this was because it was done in public.
When I was 10, the same thing happened to me at the corner of an art classroom. 2 girls were pulling off my shorts, and while I did resist, it was only to make the whole situation a lot more playful and not allow it to escalate (as it was quite impossible anyways).
All he needed to do was go with it as well, girls are only truly violent when you give them reason to do so. In other words, this kid is the happiest brat on the block right now, even if he did put up the wrong resistance and get molested a little. How is posting the video on youtube and clearly harassing this kid playful and not malicious? Would any guy here at the age of 10, cared if a video of girls stripping you was put on Youtube? Other than it being a great childhood memory? This isn't being molested by an uncle or sexually harassed 25 year old female teacher, these are kids of the same age coming to realize their sexuality. Clearly you do not know what 10 year olds think about because while there might be an interest in the opposite sex, 10 years old is definitely not the age at which you start having sexual attractions like that. I mean, for whatever age you are now, would you be okay with a video of you being forcibly stripped by girls being posted online? Imagine that they drugged you so you were physically incapable of resisting but were still completely conscious. Personally, I was interested in the opposite sex since I was 7. I only learned how to act on it around the age of 9. Looking back, I was perfectly okay being played around by girls, it only added to my fascination and interest. While the things that happened to me may have been more extreme for this kid, I still currently regard them as great memories and VERY educational experiences. Relooking at the video, these guys did take it too far though. If it wasn't done in a public street and with a video camera, then it should be acceptable. .... You have got to learn to differentiate between what is acceptable to YOU and to other people. To some people this would be traumatizing, to some people it would not. Theres a reason bondage / s&m exists, but its done with permission from both parties involved, not with the S part of the equation randomly finding victims on the street - thats called rape. No no no, I'm not taking about fetishes or whatever. I mean a 10 year old on average is mentally developed to understand there are going to be advances from the opposite sex, which are suppose to be the experiences that help kids develop their sexuality. There is also a reason kids aren't developed to have sex at that age, as a safeguard when things DO go wrong, like this.
Rape would be too strong of a charge, at the most a warning and punishment from parents, and their records wiped as long as they don't repeat any incidents of this nature.
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On June 05 2011 15:52 RodrigoX wrote:
Is it bad that while this kid is screaming his lungs out, Id be fucking cheering. Well change the age of the girls abit like 6 years but still.
Idk its a weird thing. Because now pretty sure this kids gonna be gay when he grows up, or a pedophile for 14 year olds. Why cant boys understand that girls are awesome. I had a gf at 11....
Wait what? I liked girls at a young age too (early elementary school), but what happened wasn't at some college frat party.
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On June 05 2011 15:50 lololol wrote:
The mother is the real criminal.
I honeslty don't believe that would help the situation. Pressing charges would bring the situation back to the fore front when there eventually would be the trial, and for a kid who just got finished being humiliated like that he probably gets it enough as it is.
A trial would just bring more heat to him, make people remind him more often. Hell, I bet he'd have kids talking about how he needed the court to fight his battles and how he got beat by a girl.
At that age the mob mentality is very strong, and critical thinking skills are still very early in development. Many kids are blunt, honest, and have nothing close to empathy. Plus, the amount of hell the parents could cause is imo worse than what the court would do. If anything, I bet they'd be fined and maybe given community service. Basically, mommy and daddy get to pay for nothing. I can guarantee you those girl are going to be doing a lot of chores, and lacking free time for awhile.
Home is where the heart is, but it is also where you are the most vulnerable... especially at that age.
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On June 05 2011 15:51 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 15:49 DamageControL wrote:On June 05 2011 15:45 travis wrote:On June 05 2011 15:35 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:33 travis wrote:On June 05 2011 15:31 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:28 stormtemplar wrote:On June 05 2011 15:25 Daimiru wrote:
also, fyi: the 4chan /b/ "if the genders were reversed..." logic is actually pretty misogynist, or at the least fairly ignorant of gender history; there are lots of relevant reasons one might express greater concern if this were 4 older boys and a young girl. having said that, one lesson to take from that is that we apply sex offender status to freely to minors in America. We apply criminal punishment too freely in general in the USA and if you try and change it the masses go: SOFT ON CRIMEEEEE!!!!! EVIIIIIIIILNESSS yeah exactly, given how many people we put in prison vis-a-vis the rest of the developed world how messed up is that the internet would latch on to some news cycle interest piece and be like WHY AREN'T THESE MINORS IN PRISON?! If it was 13-14 year old boys stripping down an 11 year old girl every single person here(except the most obvious of trolls) would be screaming it should be taken to court. 1. yes, because that would actually be different in the context of real historical gender issues what the FUUUUUUUCK does that mean
2. but i wouldn't if I thought the court system was going to deliver the boys sex offender status instead of therapy, which is what would be actually needed in such a case
I respectfully disagree. 13-14 year olds know pretty damn well that stripping a child down is FUCKED UP. They made need therapy too, but it's damn well clear that they're sex offenders. I dunno, the label shouldn't be attached to anyone at that young an age. Yeah they know it's probably bad but they, realistically, don't really understand HOW bad or why. Yes, I would argue the same for males. They should be forced to get therapy. they really, really, really, shouldn't have to enter into a system that could label them for the rest of their lives.... While I agree that it's rough and it sucks that things work like that, the system isn't there so much as punishment, but rather as protection for everyone else (im not so sure how well that works though). If I had a child, and my neighbors teenage kid had forcibly stripped another child, I would damn well want to know about it.
I dunno how much protection it would give the kids. Yeah...sigh. I dunno. Maybe I'm too soft, but I feel like I've done a lot of stupid things too and I hope and am glad that I haven't been judged for them by the harshest means.
I think there are better ways to protect the boy, and the people around the girls basically, without harming them for permanent. (which is probably only the case if they have money actually...another tragedy I strongly object to.)
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On June 05 2011 15:36 travis wrote:
I love how people even dare to make this a sexual thing/age related. Do you guys actually think it would be fun to be forcibly stripped by 3 girls/women while filmed and then have it uploaded to youtube? Are you guys HONESTLY that stupid?
And to make it worse, I can guarandamntee that all of his classmates have seen the video, and I bet he gets shit for it every day.
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The girls should be expelled at the very least. If this was 3 boys on 1 girl there would be so much outcry the boys would probably spend time in juvy along with many many charges. Equal crime requires equal punishment, regardless of who is committing it. There should be no use of double standards since every person has equal rights.
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On June 05 2011 15:45 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 15:35 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:33 travis wrote:On June 05 2011 15:31 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:28 stormtemplar wrote:On June 05 2011 15:25 Daimiru wrote:
also, fyi: the 4chan /b/ "if the genders were reversed..." logic is actually pretty misogynist, or at the least fairly ignorant of gender history; there are lots of relevant reasons one might express greater concern if this were 4 older boys and a young girl. having said that, one lesson to take from that is that we apply sex offender status to freely to minors in America. We apply criminal punishment too freely in general in the USA and if you try and change it the masses go: SOFT ON CRIMEEEEE!!!!! EVIIIIIIIILNESSS yeah exactly, given how many people we put in prison vis-a-vis the rest of the developed world how messed up is that the internet would latch on to some news cycle interest piece and be like WHY AREN'T THESE MINORS IN PRISON?! If it was 13-14 year old boys stripping down an 11 year old girl every single person here(except the most obvious of trolls) would be screaming it should be taken to court. 1. yes, because that would actually be different in the context of real historical gender issues what the FUUUUUUUCK does that mean Show nested quote +
2. but i wouldn't if I thought the court system was going to deliver the boys sex offender status instead of therapy, which is what would be actually needed in such a case
I respectfully disagree. 13-14 year olds know pretty damn well that stripping a child down is FUCKED UP. They made need therapy too, but it's damn well clear that they're sex offenders.
1. well to put it bluntly, male-on-female violence (especially of a sexual nature) is much more prevalent historically than vice-versa; and in particular, we've only begun to socially confront the lopsided violence dynamic between the genders very recently in the developed world and are far from achieving any egalitarian equilibrium. "reversing the gender roles" and counterfactually making this an act of male-on-female violence triggers more concerns precisely because we are aware of that history and the historical forces that might precipitate such an act
2. what ethically justifiable role (e.g. from a human welfare perspective) does punitive justice serve in this scenario other than to make the internet feel better?
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to everyone saying that people would take this more seriously if the genders were reversed:
that's true, but don't you think that in this situation, the victim will be affected/traumatized much less than if the genders were reversed?
A boy being stripped by 3 girls simply isn't going to feel that awful about it compared to if a girl was stripped by 3 boys IMO..
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On June 05 2011 15:54 ZiegFeld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 15:46 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On June 05 2011 15:35 ZiegFeld wrote:On June 05 2011 15:29 Emporio wrote:On June 05 2011 15:15 ZiegFeld wrote:On June 05 2011 15:08 DeepBlu2 wrote:On June 05 2011 15:05 ZiegFeld wrote:
The only thing wrong with this was because it was done in public.
When I was 10, the same thing happened to me at the corner of an art classroom. 2 girls were pulling off my shorts, and while I did resist, it was only to make the whole situation a lot more playful and not allow it to escalate (as it was quite impossible anyways).
All he needed to do was go with it as well, girls are only truly violent when you give them reason to do so. In other words, this kid is the happiest brat on the block right now, even if he did put up the wrong resistance and get molested a little. How is posting the video on youtube and clearly harassing this kid playful and not malicious? Would any guy here at the age of 10, cared if a video of girls stripping you was put on Youtube? Other than it being a great childhood memory? This isn't being molested by an uncle or sexually harassed 25 year old female teacher, these are kids of the same age coming to realize their sexuality. Clearly you do not know what 10 year olds think about because while there might be an interest in the opposite sex, 10 years old is definitely not the age at which you start having sexual attractions like that. I mean, for whatever age you are now, would you be okay with a video of you being forcibly stripped by girls being posted online? Imagine that they drugged you so you were physically incapable of resisting but were still completely conscious. Personally, I was interested in the opposite sex since I was 7. I only learned how to act on it around the age of 9. Looking back, I was perfectly okay being played around by girls, it only added to my fascination and interest. While the things that happened to me may have been more extreme for this kid, I still currently regard them as great memories and VERY educational experiences. Relooking at the video, these guys did take it too far though. If it wasn't done in a public street and with a video camera, then it should be acceptable. .... You have got to learn to differentiate between what is acceptable to YOU and to other people. To some people this would be traumatizing, to some people it would not. Theres a reason bondage / s&m exists, but its done with permission from both parties involved, not with the S part of the equation randomly finding victims on the street - thats called rape. No no no, I'm not taking about fetishes or whatever. I mean a 10 year old on average is mentally developed to understand there are going to be advances from the opposite sex, which are suppose to be the experiences that help kids develop their sexuality. There is also a reason kids aren't developed to have sex at that age, as a safeguard when things DO go wrong, like this. Rape would be too strong of a charge, at the most a warning and punishment from parents, and their records wiped as long as they don't repeat any incidents of this nature.
Article says that the police says they can be charged with misdemeanor--a pretty minor charge.
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On June 05 2011 15:48 GGTesomas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 15:35 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:33 travis wrote:On June 05 2011 15:31 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:28 stormtemplar wrote:On June 05 2011 15:25 Daimiru wrote:
also, fyi: the 4chan /b/ "if the genders were reversed..." logic is actually pretty misogynist, or at the least fairly ignorant of gender history; there are lots of relevant reasons one might express greater concern if this were 4 older boys and a young girl. having said that, one lesson to take from that is that we apply sex offender status to freely to minors in America. We apply criminal punishment too freely in general in the USA and if you try and change it the masses go: SOFT ON CRIMEEEEE!!!!! EVIIIIIIIILNESSS yeah exactly, given how many people we put in prison vis-a-vis the rest of the developed world how messed up is that the internet would latch on to some news cycle interest piece and be like WHY AREN'T THESE MINORS IN PRISON?! If it was 13-14 year old boys stripping down an 11 year old girl every single person here(except the most obvious of trolls) would be screaming it should be taken to court. 1. yes, because that would actually be different in the context of real historical gender issues 2. but i wouldn't if I thought the court system was going to deliver the boys sex offender status instead of therapy, which is what would be actually needed in such a case If a person tried to argue that "real historical gender issues" meant that a woman should face court in a situation but a man shouldn't, that person would be buried in a media shitstorm. Quite frankly, I don't think looking to history is very useful here. Broad historical trends aren't so useful in examining individual cases because these isolated incidents are so narrow in focus
to be quite frank literally 99% of what justice systems do is look at history
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Hmm, letting the courts handle it would be the best... but letting the girls' parents make punishment themselves is pretty weak...
I wonder how many girls there were that attacked the boy. An 11 year old boy should be able to punch and kick girls in this situation lol.
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EPT
