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On June 05 2011 15:54 ZiegFeld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 15:46 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On June 05 2011 15:35 ZiegFeld wrote:On June 05 2011 15:29 Emporio wrote:On June 05 2011 15:15 ZiegFeld wrote:On June 05 2011 15:08 DeepBlu2 wrote:On June 05 2011 15:05 ZiegFeld wrote:
The only thing wrong with this was because it was done in public.
When I was 10, the same thing happened to me at the corner of an art classroom. 2 girls were pulling off my shorts, and while I did resist, it was only to make the whole situation a lot more playful and not allow it to escalate (as it was quite impossible anyways).
All he needed to do was go with it as well, girls are only truly violent when you give them reason to do so. In other words, this kid is the happiest brat on the block right now, even if he did put up the wrong resistance and get molested a little. How is posting the video on youtube and clearly harassing this kid playful and not malicious? Would any guy here at the age of 10, cared if a video of girls stripping you was put on Youtube? Other than it being a great childhood memory? This isn't being molested by an uncle or sexually harassed 25 year old female teacher, these are kids of the same age coming to realize their sexuality. Clearly you do not know what 10 year olds think about because while there might be an interest in the opposite sex, 10 years old is definitely not the age at which you start having sexual attractions like that. I mean, for whatever age you are now, would you be okay with a video of you being forcibly stripped by girls being posted online? Imagine that they drugged you so you were physically incapable of resisting but were still completely conscious. Personally, I was interested in the opposite sex since I was 7. I only learned how to act on it around the age of 9. Looking back, I was perfectly okay being played around by girls, it only added to my fascination and interest. While the things that happened to me may have been more extreme for this kid, I still currently regard them as great memories and VERY educational experiences. Relooking at the video, these guys did take it too far though. If it wasn't done in a public street and with a video camera, then it should be acceptable. .... You have got to learn to differentiate between what is acceptable to YOU and to other people. To some people this would be traumatizing, to some people it would not. Theres a reason bondage / s&m exists, but its done with permission from both parties involved, not with the S part of the equation randomly finding victims on the street - thats called rape. No no no, I'm not taking about fetishes or whatever. I mean a 10 year old on average is mentally developed to understand there are going to be advances from the opposite sex, which are suppose to be the experiences that help kids develop their sexuality. There is also a reason kids aren't developed to have sex at that age, as a safeguard when things DO go wrong, like this. Rape would be too strong of a charge, at the most a warning and punishment from parents, and their records wiped as long as they don't repeat any incidents of this nature.
You're not looking at this clearly if you think this was some kind of "advance" from the girls. They aren't attracted to this kid.. They saw a younger and weaker kid and decided to torment him.. there was nothing playful about it..
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On June 05 2011 16:00 ewswes wrote:
to everyone saying that people would take this more seriously if the genders were reversed:
that's true, but don't you think that in this situation, the victim will be affected/traumatized much less than if the genders were reversed?
A boy being stripped by 3 girls simply isn't going to feel that awful about it compared to if a girl was stripped by 3 boys IMO..
This is a boy who has not yet reached puberty, he has no sexual desires towards these girls and certainly doesn't have some rape fantasy. I guarantee you this will mentally scar him, not just because of the fact that he was essentially raped, but also because everybody who was outside that day, as well as everybody who saw the video on the girl's phone, everybody who saw the video on youtube and everybody who heard about the story is going to be making fun of him until he gets out of highschool and that's a traumatic experience in itself.
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On June 05 2011 15:59 MethodSC wrote:
The girls should be expelled at the very least. If this was 3 boys on 1 girl there would be so much outcry the boys would probably spend time in juvy along with many many charges. Equal crime requires equal punishment, regardless of who is committing it. There should be no use of double standards since every person has equal rights.
If they lived in Edmonton they would have been. According to the OP video, the school says they "can't charge them because it was off school property" but every fight ever found out about by the Edmonton Public Schoolboard has everyone fighting and anyone witnessing getting either an expulsion or heavy suspesions.
On the way to, on the way from, or in the midst of any potential school activity is under school jurisdiction as far as any bullying is concerned. I even know someone who got suspended for flaming someone else on facebook when I was in highschool.
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On June 05 2011 15:54 ZiegFeld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 15:46 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On June 05 2011 15:35 ZiegFeld wrote:On June 05 2011 15:29 Emporio wrote:On June 05 2011 15:15 ZiegFeld wrote:On June 05 2011 15:08 DeepBlu2 wrote:On June 05 2011 15:05 ZiegFeld wrote:
The only thing wrong with this was because it was done in public.
When I was 10, the same thing happened to me at the corner of an art classroom. 2 girls were pulling off my shorts, and while I did resist, it was only to make the whole situation a lot more playful and not allow it to escalate (as it was quite impossible anyways).
All he needed to do was go with it as well, girls are only truly violent when you give them reason to do so. In other words, this kid is the happiest brat on the block right now, even if he did put up the wrong resistance and get molested a little. How is posting the video on youtube and clearly harassing this kid playful and not malicious? Would any guy here at the age of 10, cared if a video of girls stripping you was put on Youtube? Other than it being a great childhood memory? This isn't being molested by an uncle or sexually harassed 25 year old female teacher, these are kids of the same age coming to realize their sexuality. Clearly you do not know what 10 year olds think about because while there might be an interest in the opposite sex, 10 years old is definitely not the age at which you start having sexual attractions like that. I mean, for whatever age you are now, would you be okay with a video of you being forcibly stripped by girls being posted online? Imagine that they drugged you so you were physically incapable of resisting but were still completely conscious. Personally, I was interested in the opposite sex since I was 7. I only learned how to act on it around the age of 9. Looking back, I was perfectly okay being played around by girls, it only added to my fascination and interest. While the things that happened to me may have been more extreme for this kid, I still currently regard them as great memories and VERY educational experiences. Relooking at the video, these guys did take it too far though. If it wasn't done in a public street and with a video camera, then it should be acceptable. .... You have got to learn to differentiate between what is acceptable to YOU and to other people. To some people this would be traumatizing, to some people it would not. Theres a reason bondage / s&m exists, but its done with permission from both parties involved, not with the S part of the equation randomly finding victims on the street - thats called rape. No no no, I'm not taking about fetishes or whatever.
So femdom isn't a fetish now?
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On June 05 2011 15:51 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 15:49 DamageControL wrote:On June 05 2011 15:45 travis wrote:On June 05 2011 15:35 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:33 travis wrote:On June 05 2011 15:31 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:28 stormtemplar wrote:On June 05 2011 15:25 Daimiru wrote:
also, fyi: the 4chan /b/ "if the genders were reversed..." logic is actually pretty misogynist, or at the least fairly ignorant of gender history; there are lots of relevant reasons one might express greater concern if this were 4 older boys and a young girl. having said that, one lesson to take from that is that we apply sex offender status to freely to minors in America. We apply criminal punishment too freely in general in the USA and if you try and change it the masses go: SOFT ON CRIMEEEEE!!!!! EVIIIIIIIILNESSS yeah exactly, given how many people we put in prison vis-a-vis the rest of the developed world how messed up is that the internet would latch on to some news cycle interest piece and be like WHY AREN'T THESE MINORS IN PRISON?! If it was 13-14 year old boys stripping down an 11 year old girl every single person here(except the most obvious of trolls) would be screaming it should be taken to court. 1. yes, because that would actually be different in the context of real historical gender issues what the FUUUUUUUCK does that mean
2. but i wouldn't if I thought the court system was going to deliver the boys sex offender status instead of therapy, which is what would be actually needed in such a case
I respectfully disagree. 13-14 year olds know pretty damn well that stripping a child down is FUCKED UP. They made need therapy too, but it's damn well clear that they're sex offenders. I dunno, the label shouldn't be attached to anyone at that young an age. Yeah they know it's probably bad but they, realistically, don't really understand HOW bad or why. Yes, I would argue the same for males. They should be forced to get therapy. they really, really, really, shouldn't have to enter into a system that could label them for the rest of their lives.... While I agree that it's rough and it sucks that things work like that, the system isn't there so much as punishment, but rather as protection for everyone else (im not so sure how well that works though). If I had a child, and my neighbors teenage kid had forcibly stripped another child, I would damn well want to know about it.
i don't really want to start a discussion on sex crimes perpetrated by minors but the short version is that it's highly nonobvious that we handle them in a productive way in America. i can't fault any group of parents for wanting to avoid our justice system in the management of their children's health
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On June 05 2011 16:02 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 15:59 MethodSC wrote:
The girls should be expelled at the very least. If this was 3 boys on 1 girl there would be so much outcry the boys would probably spend time in juvy along with many many charges. Equal crime requires equal punishment, regardless of who is committing it. There should be no use of double standards since every person has equal rights. If they lived in Edmonton they would have been. According to the OP video, the school says they "can't charge them because it was off school property" but every fight ever found out about by the Edmonton Public Schoolboard has everyone fighting and anyone witnessing getting either an expulsion or heavy suspesions. On the way to, on the way from, or in the midst of any potential school activity is under school jurisdiction as far as any bullying is concerned. I even know someone who got suspended for flaming someone else on facebook.
It's like this in Winnipeg too, my friend was in a fight in grade 8 and about 40 people went to watch it (it was not on school property) and the people involved got suspended for a month and everybody who was found out to have watched (pretty easy because we were almost all people who paid for the lunch service shit at my school and didn't show up) had to do 2 hours community service.
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Edit: considering how many people seem to think letting the "parents handle it" is a good idea i'm not going to start an argument. IMO a suspension at least should have been given to discourage future behavior.
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On June 05 2011 16:02 d(O.o)a wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 16:00 ewswes wrote:
to everyone saying that people would take this more seriously if the genders were reversed:
that's true, but don't you think that in this situation, the victim will be affected/traumatized much less than if the genders were reversed?
A boy being stripped by 3 girls simply isn't going to feel that awful about it compared to if a girl was stripped by 3 boys IMO.. This is a boy who has not yet reached puberty, he has no sexual desires towards these girls and certainly doesn't have some rape fantasy. I guarantee you this will mentally scar him, not just because of the fact that he was essentially raped, but also because everybody who was outside that day, as well as everybody who saw the video on the girl's phone, everybody who saw the video on youtube and everybody who heard about the story is going to be making fun of him until he gets out of highschool and that's a traumatic experience in itself.
yea, but that's no different than being bullied which occurs all the time.
what the boy experienced was no different than any other bullying experience, but what a girl experiences if she's forcibly stripped by 3 boys would be much more traumatizing than mere bullying.
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Very disturbing :/ The mom should be pressing charges, its just not right
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I'm having a hard time viewing this as anything but a minor crime and I'm glad the mom isn't pressing charges. A general negative community reaction let them know immediately that it was not alright. They won't be doing this again. That being said the greater damage is caused by the proliferation of the story on the internet. It reinforces the idea of "doing outrageous thing and posting it online makes you famous" and also damages the reputation of the 11 year old boy possibly forever. That is the real damage here. If he and his mother let's the whole thing slide it makes them look less vindictive. I'm not even convinced the boy really fought against the girls as hard as he could. He probably had a rush of mixed feeling being stripped naked by the girls and didn't think about the video footage(why would he?). It's really not that big of an event, no was was really hurt except this poor kids reputation. I'm surprised so many of you are irate about this. It's really kinda stupid imo.
The vast difference between girls pulling off the clothes of a boy and the opposite situation ( that some have been citing as sexism in the occurrence ) is this: Girls when they turn into women have a much lower rate of violent rape of men than visa versa. The pulling off of clothes is symbolic of rape and that's where the disconnection of perception lies imo.
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Vatican City State733 Posts
On June 05 2011 16:01 Daimiru wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 15:48 GGTesomas wrote:On June 05 2011 15:35 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:33 travis wrote:On June 05 2011 15:31 Daimiru wrote:On June 05 2011 15:28 stormtemplar wrote:On June 05 2011 15:25 Daimiru wrote:
also, fyi: the 4chan /b/ "if the genders were reversed..." logic is actually pretty misogynist, or at the least fairly ignorant of gender history; there are lots of relevant reasons one might express greater concern if this were 4 older boys and a young girl. having said that, one lesson to take from that is that we apply sex offender status to freely to minors in America. We apply criminal punishment too freely in general in the USA and if you try and change it the masses go: SOFT ON CRIMEEEEE!!!!! EVIIIIIIIILNESSS yeah exactly, given how many people we put in prison vis-a-vis the rest of the developed world how messed up is that the internet would latch on to some news cycle interest piece and be like WHY AREN'T THESE MINORS IN PRISON?! If it was 13-14 year old boys stripping down an 11 year old girl every single person here(except the most obvious of trolls) would be screaming it should be taken to court. 1. yes, because that would actually be different in the context of real historical gender issues 2. but i wouldn't if I thought the court system was going to deliver the boys sex offender status instead of therapy, which is what would be actually needed in such a case If a person tried to argue that "real historical gender issues" meant that a woman should face court in a situation but a man shouldn't, that person would be buried in a media shitstorm. Quite frankly, I don't think looking to history is very useful here. Broad historical trends aren't so useful in examining individual cases because these isolated incidents are so narrow in focus to be quite frank literally 99% of what justice systems do is look at history
Looking at history and using broad historical trends and justification for harsher punishments for certain group are two very different things. Examining history is essential for understanding and interpreting the spirit of the law to be sure. However, in the context of individual cases applying broad trends is not acceptable or just precisely because these cases are of such a small scope.
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On June 05 2011 16:00 ewswes wrote:
to everyone saying that people would take this more seriously if the genders were reversed:
that's true, but don't you think that in this situation, the victim will be affected/traumatized much less than if the genders were reversed?
A boy being stripped by 3 girls simply isn't going to feel that awful about it compared to if a girl was stripped by 3 boys IMO..
Why not? The kid is 10. I doubt you can garner anything sexual from it, and it basically boils down to 3 stronger people ripping off your clothes and ruining your life. It's not like 'oh, this is lulz, women are ripping my clothes off, awesome', it's a serious issue, the kid was being traumatized by these girls, and it's really no different then if the gender roles were reversed (if the situation was exactly the same, no sexual thing happening).
I sincerely hope you don't think that men don't have enough emotions to be more scared than girls, or that men can bottle up their emotions and eliminate them better than women, because that's just not true.
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On June 05 2011 16:07 SolidZeal wrote:He probably had a rush of mixed feeling being stripped naked by the girls and didn't think about the video footage(why would he?).
Totally, just like all sexual assault victims.
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On June 05 2011 16:05 ewswes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 16:02 d(O.o)a wrote:On June 05 2011 16:00 ewswes wrote:
to everyone saying that people would take this more seriously if the genders were reversed:
that's true, but don't you think that in this situation, the victim will be affected/traumatized much less than if the genders were reversed?
A boy being stripped by 3 girls simply isn't going to feel that awful about it compared to if a girl was stripped by 3 boys IMO.. This is a boy who has not yet reached puberty, he has no sexual desires towards these girls and certainly doesn't have some rape fantasy. I guarantee you this will mentally scar him, not just because of the fact that he was essentially raped, but also because everybody who was outside that day, as well as everybody who saw the video on the girl's phone, everybody who saw the video on youtube and everybody who heard about the story is going to be making fun of him until he gets out of highschool and that's a traumatic experience in itself. yea, but that's no different than being bullied which occurs all the time. what the boy experienced was no different than any other bullying experience, but what a girl experiences if she's forcibly stripped by 3 boys would be much more traumatizing than mere bullying.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! It's these kind of statements that ruin this world. This is NOT bullying, this is RAPE regardless of how you look at it. Guess what guys can be raped too, regardless of what you think.
I don't know about you, but before puberty, I would've been extremely traumatized by girls even looking at my penis, let alone showing it to the whole school. The video the posted on youtube? It's child pornography, whether you agree or not. It is child pornography. Even disregarding that, the boy clearly was forced into a situation he didn't want to be in, he was squirming to get away, but the two larger girls held him down.
How is this any different than a girl being held down by 2 larger guys and having her clothes forcibly removed? And don't just say "well, she's a girl" or anything to that idea. THAT is sexism.
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Oh man that blew up in face real quick. I was typing a story of me being bullied and what I learned but when I finished I was banned. I understand your disgust of me, people have been conditioned against different ideas. The stupid troll accusation is the go to response of those without arguments. It is very McCarthyesque as its hard to prove your true intentions.
When Darwin proposed his origin of species he was confronted the same way. ' You are an idiot to believe we come from apes. Just look its obvious we aren't apes etc etc. ' Please learn from these events and realize that we all may be wrong, even if we are sure that we are right. The one difference between truth and lies is that truth likes to be tested. I think we owe it as an intellectual species to always question what we believe, so that we may better ourselves. I wasn't trying to put my ideas in your face i responded like every else did once then answered some questions.
Here is my reasoning please call me idiot, but also tell me what you disagree with.
Bullying happens for a reason.
The reason is evolutionary. (all social animals do it)
Because it happens for a reason there is a way to avoid it.
Instead of attacking the bullies it would be more practical to learn not how to bullied.
I never said it was right that they did that. I just said with him being that way is it of no surprise.
You can ip ban me shortly after so i never ' troll' again. But I want my ideas to be tested too. If I am wrong I would like to know. Thank you.
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I remember a time when kids being kids didn't end in law suits and national headlines.
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On June 05 2011 16:04 d(O.o)a wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 16:02 iCanada wrote:On June 05 2011 15:59 MethodSC wrote:
The girls should be expelled at the very least. If this was 3 boys on 1 girl there would be so much outcry the boys would probably spend time in juvy along with many many charges. Equal crime requires equal punishment, regardless of who is committing it. There should be no use of double standards since every person has equal rights. If they lived in Edmonton they would have been. According to the OP video, the school says they "can't charge them because it was off school property" but every fight ever found out about by the Edmonton Public Schoolboard has everyone fighting and anyone witnessing getting either an expulsion or heavy suspesions. On the way to, on the way from, or in the midst of any potential school activity is under school jurisdiction as far as any bullying is concerned. I even know someone who got suspended for flaming someone else on facebook. It's like this in Winnipeg too, my friend was in a fight in grade 8 and about 40 people went to watch it (it was not on school property) and the people involved got suspended for a month and everybody who was found out to have watched (pretty easy because we were almost all people who paid for the lunch service shit at my school and didn't show up) had to do 2 hours community service.
I think Edmonton almost takes it too far. But I think the statistics are fairly good in that the amount of fighting in schools during the last five or so years has decreased dramatically. Lucky for me, I was in grade 9/10 when the school board started getting really heavy handed with these things. I actually fought a ton in my junior high years (7-9) which in my opinion really helped me grow as a person just through learning who I was.
I was actually suspended for a week in my grade 12 year for being in my schools cafeteria while a fight broke out. Apparently I was obligated to stop studying during my spare to intervene? I dunno...
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 05 2011 16:05 ewswes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 16:02 d(O.o)a wrote:On June 05 2011 16:00 ewswes wrote:
to everyone saying that people would take this more seriously if the genders were reversed:
that's true, but don't you think that in this situation, the victim will be affected/traumatized much less than if the genders were reversed?
A boy being stripped by 3 girls simply isn't going to feel that awful about it compared to if a girl was stripped by 3 boys IMO.. This is a boy who has not yet reached puberty, he has no sexual desires towards these girls and certainly doesn't have some rape fantasy. I guarantee you this will mentally scar him, not just because of the fact that he was essentially raped, but also because everybody who was outside that day, as well as everybody who saw the video on the girl's phone, everybody who saw the video on youtube and everybody who heard about the story is going to be making fun of him until he gets out of highschool and that's a traumatic experience in itself. yea, but that's no different than being bullied which occurs all the time. what the boy experienced was no different than any other bullying experience, but what a girl experiences if she's forcibly stripped by 3 boys would be much more traumatizing than mere bullying.
People keep saying this, yet theres absolutely no evidence being presented for why it would be different...
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On June 05 2011 16:04 Godstorm wrote:
Expel the living shit out of them, make sure it stays on their permanent record so they can't ever get in a decent school. Also the mom should press charges, considering how the girls are acting like a bunch of under-developed monkeys i highly doubt their parents are competent at their job.
Yeah, I like the term monkeys. What's more mysterious to me is how these kids got to upload it at youtube (or how many time it took them) with that type of profile. Considering I've seen much more normal people wondering how to upload eg. a screenshot.
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On June 05 2011 16:10 jaybee2 wrote:
Oh man that blew up in face real quick. I was typing a story of me being bullied and what I learned but when I finished I was banned. I understand your disgust of me, people have been conditioned against different ideas. The stupid troll accusation is the go to response of those without arguments. It is very McCarthyesque as its hard to prove your true intentions.
When Darwin proposed his origin of species he was confronted the same way. ' You are an idiot to believe we come from apes. Just look its obvious we aren't apes etc etc. ' Please learn from these events and realize that we all may be wrong, even if we are sure that we are right. The one difference between truth and lies is that truth likes to be tested. I think we owe it as an intellectual species to always question what we believe, so that we may better ourselves. I wasn't trying to put my ideas in your face i responded like every else did once then answered some questions.
Here is my reasoning please call me idiot, but also tell me what you disagree with.
Bullying happens for a reason.
The reason is evolutionary. (all social animals do it)
Because it happens for a reason there is a way to avoid it.
Instead of attacking the bullies it would be more practical to learn not how to bullied.
I never said it was right that they did that. I just said with him being that way is it of no surprise.
You can ip ban me shortly after so i never ' troll' again. But I want my ideas to be tested too. If I am wrong I would like to know. Thank you.
So there is a way to avoid being held down by 2 people larger than you? (completely ignoring the fact that they're girls, THEY ARE LARGER THAN HIM AS WELL AS STRONGER)
It's clearly that you have not yet evolved, hopefully you get banned(bullied) again and can continue to evolve.
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EPT
