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On June 28 2011 09:11 Snuggles wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 09:09 n3gative wrote:
honestly the op's heart is in the right place but his advice is absolutely terrible and should not be followed or even considered
God now I am really confused. I came up with my little diet based off what the OP was saying... Maybe I should just comb through all 14 pages of this thread to get the right facts =_=
I'm certainly no fitness expert, but I did something very similar to what you described above for about a month before realizing that it wasn't good for me. So I have a few pieces of advice.
First, you're not going to "look" in shape unless you are, so you might as well start working to build muscle now. Second, there are a lot of people in this thread advising against following the OP's example. Those people (and myself) would recommend asking the people and keeping up with this thread.
So, it looks to me like you're not eating enough calories, from what I read of your diet it looks like you're only taking in 600-900 calories a day. That's not enough. IMO, you should shift your focus from eating as little as possible, to eating reasonable portions of healthy food when you're hungry. You should undercut your BMR only slightly*. Finally, if I were you, I'd get some dumbbells or go to the gym and try to work on more than just cardio.
*This I'm really not sure of. General advice says healthy weight loss is .5 to 1 lb/week. More is safe if you're considerably overweight. But considering you're exercising every day with at least .5 hr cardio, I can't really say for sure how much you should undercut. Depends on the intensity of the cardio and what other things you do in addition.
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On June 28 2011 09:20 NokCha wrote:
Dunno if this is the right place but i've seen some people swear that chipotle(burrito bowl) is a good healthy alternative to fast food when your on a diet.
Can anyone confirm this?
Whats in it? im assuming its not healthy.
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Also, this thread gives people a very wrong idea about losing weight.
The diet OP made is really really really REALLY bad.
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On June 28 2011 09:13 PetitCrabe wrote:
What happens when you are like me? You can't GAIN weight..........
You're either a) eating shitty food or more likely b) not eating enough or even more likely c) both. If i can put on weight being 6'1 at a lean 210 lbs doing labor + working out/rugby everyday then i guarentee you its possible.
On June 28 2011 09:20 NokCha wrote:
Dunno if this is the right place but i've seen some people swear that chipotle(burrito bowl) is a good healthy alternative to fast food when your on a diet.
Can anyone confirm this?
I see nothing wrong with meat + rice + veggies. In general its much cleaner food than most fast food. And define "on a diet"
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Caloric defict + light/moderate weight training = massive weight loss. Congrats on being intelligent enough to take the reigns and figure this sh*t out for yourself. Most people are too ridiculous to figure this stuff out on their own.. Quite sad really 
To anyone who is trying to add mass after they've cut the fat.. Eat more! Yeah, it's hard to hear that after you've been eating at or below maintenance for so long.. But if you're having any trouble at all putting on weight it's because you're not eating enough. This is always true, 100% of the time. If you think I'm wrong - you're wrong. Eat more. Stop complaining that you can't gain muscle mass, and stuff your face. I guarantee it will work.
Better yet, start lifting hard and increasing your calories while you're losing weight. You'll cut down to a built core instead of looking like a wet cat.
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Exercise regularly.
Get enough sleep.
Eat less and healthier than you are, and gradually lower your calorie intake.
And more importantly, take pictures of your progress (you wouldn't believe how much of an inspiration it is when looking at your former healthier self).
Maybe that's a bit too general lol.
To be more specific, the one tip I have for you guys is to disregard cardio. Cardio is short-term compared to the results you get from doing high intensity interval training (HIIT) or strength training (high volume, low reps). So if your schedule is limited, make sure prioritize either one of these workouts.
The reason for these types of workouts is that your metabolism starts to work even after you workout. You ever wondered why you become hungry throughout the day after weight lifting or doing stuff like sprints?
However, if you can manage time to add cardio in your routine, go ahead. Cardio is important for your health, but HIIT or strength training will result in dramatic changes.
Above all, if you want to lose weight, simply cut down your calorie intake gradually and don't kill yourself. DON'T OVERDO IT. Stay hungry for the next day.
gl hf
oh yeah..don't make living a healthy lifestyle harder than you think.
Resources: crossfit, tabata training, rippetoe's starting strength
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On June 28 2011 09:16 TzTz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 09:04 Snuggles wrote:
That's some good comforting advice, but it sounds like easy way out to me. So the diet I've been on right now isn't the right way to go about with things?
From what I'm reading are you saying that I should just eat tons of healthy food so that all I'm doing is substituting the food I had eaten before with just protein and veggies??
I'm just so confused now sorry =( The way I'm eating right now is really hard to stick to but I feel like the results will speak for themselves when I get to my goal of losing 10lbs. I was planning from that point on i would eat more and start trying to build some muscles after I "look" like I'm in shape. Sorry I didn't read what exactly you are doing right now, but in this post it sounded like you just eat much less. The problem with that is, that your body adapts to low calory intake. The more drastic the lack of food is, the more the body will "eat" your muscle to solve two problems at once: He can save the precious fat reserves for real emergency, and he can reduce your energy consumption making you last longer through the "famine", because your muscles use up energy all the time, even while resting. That's the cause of the problem many people have: You lose weight and then you eat normal again, but you lost so much muscle (and your body reduces your metabolism overall) that the food intake that once kept you at a steady-state now let's you shoot up in weight even beyond where you were, just with even less muscle than before. I'd look into the mirror more then on my scale. 10lbs means nothing per se.
Wow, alright that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for giving your input. If I use my Starcraft brain I can pinpoint the cause of the 10lb gain over the year is due to all the unhealthy eating I was doing. Each meal I had was chock full of unnecessary carbs (rice) and lotsa of oil and meat with not too many veggies except for some occasions. But the killer must be the midnight snacking... man...
So rather starving myself miserably a proper diet would look like normal except healthy right?
Here's what I'm thinking now.
8:00 AM two eggs
10:00 Yogurt and fruits? Or shop around for a protein supplement.
12:00 Chicken salad but I guess with more chicken cause that's the part of the meal that fills you up nicely
3:00 Another snack, yogurt is my favorite but I guess I'll have to look up another alternative
6:00 Chicken Salad with more chicken
8:00 PM after working out is it ok to have another snack?
9 PM - Bed no more food
I'm really confident that if I just throw in another breast I'll be completely content. I think my "normal" diet would come out to just around 2000 calories and I would feel like crap (I feel fat) at the end of the day, with this diet I'm guessing 1500. Sounds perfect to me, almost too easy to be true. But I can understand how some people can have trouble when they would normally eat an exorbitant amount of food. I've only gained these 10lbs over this year when I started to eat a meal at like midnight or in the early hours.
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On June 28 2011 09:13 PetitCrabe wrote:
What happens when you are like me? You can't GAIN weight..........
eat more, and drink a gallon of milk a day (GOMAD)
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On June 28 2011 07:33 Snuggles wrote:
Hey what do you guys think of this diet? It's what I'm doing right now, and I feel constantly hungry, doesn't mean I stay hungry but I do eat often in small portions like you guys are suggesting.
so i wake up
8:00 I eat 2 eggs
10 or 10:30 I get hungry and eat a cup of plain yogurt
12 or 1 I have skinless chicken breast and lettuce
3 I eat more yogurt
6 I eat more chicken and lettuce
7 - 8 I work out a little, 30 of pushups, curls, and 30 minutes of running
9 I'm tired and hungry as hell
I play games til 12 to forget about the hunger and yell at people whenever they mention food lol. I've slipped two times so far and allowed myself to eat a bowl of rice a can of vienna sausage =_=.
any tips or comments on this? i feel like I'm doing this wrong, and jesus christ the hunger I feel at night is unbearable, especially a day after I screw up the diet. But good news is that I FEEL slimmer, and not as congested. My skin is great too I didn't realize how good salad was for your skin.
Oh and one more piece of advice I'd like to add since you don't specify what you drink. You should replace everything you currently drink with water if you haven't already. Based on your diet above, some orange or apple juice would be okay since you apparently don't eat fruit, but honestly eating actual fruit is better since you need more calories anyway.
So, to summarize,
1. Drink water
2. Eat reasonable portions of healthy food when you're hungry (fruits, vegetables, protien)
3. Work at building muscle.
Good luck.
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Also, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=180919
If anyone is actually interested in improving their bodies or changing their lifestyle to something superior.. It's not hard (dead serious. It. Is. Not. Hard.) It's actually fun. And it's a great source of pride.
TL Health and Fitness thread has a bunch of gamers like you who took the reigns. Join 'em.
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On June 28 2011 09:35 Snuggles wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 09:16 TzTz wrote:On June 28 2011 09:04 Snuggles wrote:
That's some good comforting advice, but it sounds like easy way out to me. So the diet I've been on right now isn't the right way to go about with things?
From what I'm reading are you saying that I should just eat tons of healthy food so that all I'm doing is substituting the food I had eaten before with just protein and veggies??
I'm just so confused now sorry =( The way I'm eating right now is really hard to stick to but I feel like the results will speak for themselves when I get to my goal of losing 10lbs. I was planning from that point on i would eat more and start trying to build some muscles after I "look" like I'm in shape. Sorry I didn't read what exactly you are doing right now, but in this post it sounded like you just eat much less. The problem with that is, that your body adapts to low calory intake. The more drastic the lack of food is, the more the body will "eat" your muscle to solve two problems at once: He can save the precious fat reserves for real emergency, and he can reduce your energy consumption making you last longer through the "famine", because your muscles use up energy all the time, even while resting. That's the cause of the problem many people have: You lose weight and then you eat normal again, but you lost so much muscle (and your body reduces your metabolism overall) that the food intake that once kept you at a steady-state now let's you shoot up in weight even beyond where you were, just with even less muscle than before. I'd look into the mirror more then on my scale. 10lbs means nothing per se. Wow, alright that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for giving your input. If I use my Starcraft brain I can pinpoint the cause of the 10lb gain over the year is due to all the unhealthy eating I was doing. Each meal I had was chock full of unnecessary carbs (rice) and lotsa of oil and meat with not too many veggies except for some occasions. But the killer must be the midnight snacking... man... So rather starving myself miserably a proper diet would look like normal except healthy right? Here's what I'm thinking now. 8:00 AM two eggs 10:00 Yogurt and fruits? Or shop around for a protein supplement. 12:00 Chicken salad but I guess with more chicken cause that's the part of the meal that fills you up nicely 3:00 Another snack, yogurt is my favorite but I guess I'll have to look up another alternative 6:00 Chicken Salad with more chicken 8:00 PM after working out is it ok to have another snack? 9 PM - Bed no more food I'm really confident that if I just throw in another breast I'll be completely content. I think my "normal" diet would come out to just around 2000 calories and I would feel like crap (I feel fat) at the end of the day, with this diet I'm guessing 1500. Sounds perfect to me, almost too easy to be true. But I can understand how some people can have trouble when they would normally eat an exorbitant amount of food. I've only gained these 10lbs over this year when I started to eat a meal at like midnight or in the early hours.
Open up with some Whey proteins, with water preferably but if you cannot drink that use milk,
Try to mix up with some fruits rice, vegetables. also try to do your workout earlier on the day and not before sleeping, also try to take a protein shake after your workout or a banana, like 3ish hours before you sleep try to eat some cottage cheese as your last meal, also just check the values of what you eat and try to be 45/40/15 as in Protein/Carbs/Fats , good fats are essential.
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you're awesome! thanks for the inspiration
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Yup, after reading all your advice I ate another cup of yogurt and 3 fat slices of pineapple and man do I feel good. It's one thing to eat at night when you're trying to lose weight, I felt guilty before but now that I have been enlightened this is freaking awesome.
I'm gonna run to the GNC or some supermarket and look for some protein packed food omg I'm so excited. And what's the deal with cottage cheese? What does it do?
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On June 28 2011 09:25 RealQ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 09:20 NokCha wrote:
Dunno if this is the right place but i've seen some people swear that chipotle(burrito bowl) is a good healthy alternative to fast food when your on a diet.
Can anyone confirm this? Whats in it? im assuming its not healthy.
Rice, lettuce, steak or chicken, beans, tomato salsa, corn salsa, and a little bit of sour cream :o
On June 28 2011 09:27 decafchicken wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 09:13 PetitCrabe wrote:
What happens when you are like me? You can't GAIN weight.......... You're either a) eating shitty food or more likely b) not eating enough or even more likely c) both. If i can put on weight being 6'1 at a lean 210 lbs doing labor + working out/rugby everyday then i guarentee you its possible. Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 09:20 NokCha wrote:
Dunno if this is the right place but i've seen some people swear that chipotle(burrito bowl) is a good healthy alternative to fast food when your on a diet.
Can anyone confirm this? I see nothing wrong with meat + rice + veggies. In general its much cleaner food than most fast food. And define "on a diet"
Just trying to lose weight. Currently trying to eat around 1500 calories a day.
Theres a chipotle calculator online but i find it sort of hard to believe
http://www.chipotlefan.com/index.php?id=nutrition_calculator
Says what i'm eating is like around 600 calories :S
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I would avoid the regimen of the OP. Its sad how this stuff is still so mainstream. Globo gyms and the USDA have absolutely brainwashed people. Im not going to write up a huge post on everything but just give you some places to go and things to consider.
As far as training goes, stay functional. Get rid of your bicep curls and leg extension etc... Its crap. Check out crossfit. Im not saying its the way to go but for people who need something specific it helps. Its a combination of some of the best types of training out there. Olympic lifting, gymnastics, kettlebell training, etc.. Yes, everyone can do it. Remember you can scale anything to your ability. Again, Im not saying you have to but just go to the website and atleast look around. Theres tons of free information there about functional training in general. Squats cure cancer!!!
www.crossfit.com
As far as diet goes. Paleo is the way to go. Diet is the most importan aspect. It will make all your dreams come true. Im not joking. Meat, fruit, vegies, nuts and seeds. Get rid of your whole grains, its killing america. Its the reason we have all the diseases we have today. Also get rid of your supplements. Fish oil and food is all you need. Check out Robb Wolfs website for info. He does weekly podcasts etc. It will change your world...I promise!
www.robbwolf.com
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On June 28 2011 09:46 RealQ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 09:35 Snuggles wrote:On June 28 2011 09:16 TzTz wrote:On June 28 2011 09:04 Snuggles wrote:
That's some good comforting advice, but it sounds like easy way out to me. So the diet I've been on right now isn't the right way to go about with things?
From what I'm reading are you saying that I should just eat tons of healthy food so that all I'm doing is substituting the food I had eaten before with just protein and veggies??
I'm just so confused now sorry =( The way I'm eating right now is really hard to stick to but I feel like the results will speak for themselves when I get to my goal of losing 10lbs. I was planning from that point on i would eat more and start trying to build some muscles after I "look" like I'm in shape. Sorry I didn't read what exactly you are doing right now, but in this post it sounded like you just eat much less. The problem with that is, that your body adapts to low calory intake. The more drastic the lack of food is, the more the body will "eat" your muscle to solve two problems at once: He can save the precious fat reserves for real emergency, and he can reduce your energy consumption making you last longer through the "famine", because your muscles use up energy all the time, even while resting. That's the cause of the problem many people have: You lose weight and then you eat normal again, but you lost so much muscle (and your body reduces your metabolism overall) that the food intake that once kept you at a steady-state now let's you shoot up in weight even beyond where you were, just with even less muscle than before. I'd look into the mirror more then on my scale. 10lbs means nothing per se. Wow, alright that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for giving your input. If I use my Starcraft brain I can pinpoint the cause of the 10lb gain over the year is due to all the unhealthy eating I was doing. Each meal I had was chock full of unnecessary carbs (rice) and lotsa of oil and meat with not too many veggies except for some occasions. But the killer must be the midnight snacking... man... So rather starving myself miserably a proper diet would look like normal except healthy right? Here's what I'm thinking now. 8:00 AM two eggs 10:00 Yogurt and fruits? Or shop around for a protein supplement. 12:00 Chicken salad but I guess with more chicken cause that's the part of the meal that fills you up nicely 3:00 Another snack, yogurt is my favorite but I guess I'll have to look up another alternative 6:00 Chicken Salad with more chicken 8:00 PM after working out is it ok to have another snack? 9 PM - Bed no more food I'm really confident that if I just throw in another breast I'll be completely content. I think my "normal" diet would come out to just around 2000 calories and I would feel like crap (I feel fat) at the end of the day, with this diet I'm guessing 1500. Sounds perfect to me, almost too easy to be true. But I can understand how some people can have trouble when they would normally eat an exorbitant amount of food. I've only gained these 10lbs over this year when I started to eat a meal at like midnight or in the early hours. also just check the values of what you eat and try to be 45/40/15 as in Protein/Carbs/Fats....
Absolutely no need to go beyond 40% on proteins. Effective intake is about 30-35% (40 to be sure) everything beyond 40% goes as fuel, your metabolism will burn it away. 40/40/20 or 35/45/20 is ideal imo.
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On June 28 2011 09:57 Snuggles wrote:
Yup, after reading all your advice I ate another cup of yogurt and 3 fat slices of pineapple and man do I feel good. It's one thing to eat at night when you're trying to lose weight, I felt guilty before but now that I have been enlightened this is freaking awesome.
I'm gonna run to the GNC or some supermarket and look for some protein packed food omg I'm so excited. And what's the deal with cottage cheese? What does it do?
Just adjust your schedule a bit, dont do your workout just before you will go to sleep because all it will do is eat up your muscles cause the body has no energy source after you have worked out. and cottage cheese is good to eat as a last meal cause it has alot of "slow" proteins, that slowely used by your body, which is really good at night. in the morning you need some fast proteins/carbs so get a whey protein shake for that, its by far the best thing to eat as your first meal.
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On June 28 2011 09:59 Shinobi1982 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 09:46 RealQ wrote:On June 28 2011 09:35 Snuggles wrote:On June 28 2011 09:16 TzTz wrote:On June 28 2011 09:04 Snuggles wrote:
That's some good comforting advice, but it sounds like easy way out to me. So the diet I've been on right now isn't the right way to go about with things?
From what I'm reading are you saying that I should just eat tons of healthy food so that all I'm doing is substituting the food I had eaten before with just protein and veggies??
I'm just so confused now sorry =( The way I'm eating right now is really hard to stick to but I feel like the results will speak for themselves when I get to my goal of losing 10lbs. I was planning from that point on i would eat more and start trying to build some muscles after I "look" like I'm in shape. Sorry I didn't read what exactly you are doing right now, but in this post it sounded like you just eat much less. The problem with that is, that your body adapts to low calory intake. The more drastic the lack of food is, the more the body will "eat" your muscle to solve two problems at once: He can save the precious fat reserves for real emergency, and he can reduce your energy consumption making you last longer through the "famine", because your muscles use up energy all the time, even while resting. That's the cause of the problem many people have: You lose weight and then you eat normal again, but you lost so much muscle (and your body reduces your metabolism overall) that the food intake that once kept you at a steady-state now let's you shoot up in weight even beyond where you were, just with even less muscle than before. I'd look into the mirror more then on my scale. 10lbs means nothing per se. Wow, alright that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for giving your input. If I use my Starcraft brain I can pinpoint the cause of the 10lb gain over the year is due to all the unhealthy eating I was doing. Each meal I had was chock full of unnecessary carbs (rice) and lotsa of oil and meat with not too many veggies except for some occasions. But the killer must be the midnight snacking... man... So rather starving myself miserably a proper diet would look like normal except healthy right? Here's what I'm thinking now. 8:00 AM two eggs 10:00 Yogurt and fruits? Or shop around for a protein supplement. 12:00 Chicken salad but I guess with more chicken cause that's the part of the meal that fills you up nicely 3:00 Another snack, yogurt is my favorite but I guess I'll have to look up another alternative 6:00 Chicken Salad with more chicken 8:00 PM after working out is it ok to have another snack? 9 PM - Bed no more food I'm really confident that if I just throw in another breast I'll be completely content. I think my "normal" diet would come out to just around 2000 calories and I would feel like crap (I feel fat) at the end of the day, with this diet I'm guessing 1500. Sounds perfect to me, almost too easy to be true. But I can understand how some people can have trouble when they would normally eat an exorbitant amount of food. I've only gained these 10lbs over this year when I started to eat a meal at like midnight or in the early hours. also just check the values of what you eat and try to be 45/40/15 as in Protein/Carbs/Fats.... Absolutely no need to go beyond 40% on proteins. Effective intake is about 30-35% (40 to be sure) everything beyond 40% goes as fuel, your metabolism will burn it away. 40/40/20 or 35/45/20 is ideal imo.
Yeah okay thats fine, 40/40/20 is pretty much the standard anyways.
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On June 28 2011 10:03 RealQ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 09:59 Shinobi1982 wrote:On June 28 2011 09:46 RealQ wrote:On June 28 2011 09:35 Snuggles wrote:On June 28 2011 09:16 TzTz wrote:On June 28 2011 09:04 Snuggles wrote:
That's some good comforting advice, but it sounds like easy way out to me. So the diet I've been on right now isn't the right way to go about with things?
From what I'm reading are you saying that I should just eat tons of healthy food so that all I'm doing is substituting the food I had eaten before with just protein and veggies??
I'm just so confused now sorry =( The way I'm eating right now is really hard to stick to but I feel like the results will speak for themselves when I get to my goal of losing 10lbs. I was planning from that point on i would eat more and start trying to build some muscles after I "look" like I'm in shape. Sorry I didn't read what exactly you are doing right now, but in this post it sounded like you just eat much less. The problem with that is, that your body adapts to low calory intake. The more drastic the lack of food is, the more the body will "eat" your muscle to solve two problems at once: He can save the precious fat reserves for real emergency, and he can reduce your energy consumption making you last longer through the "famine", because your muscles use up energy all the time, even while resting. That's the cause of the problem many people have: You lose weight and then you eat normal again, but you lost so much muscle (and your body reduces your metabolism overall) that the food intake that once kept you at a steady-state now let's you shoot up in weight even beyond where you were, just with even less muscle than before. I'd look into the mirror more then on my scale. 10lbs means nothing per se. Wow, alright that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for giving your input. If I use my Starcraft brain I can pinpoint the cause of the 10lb gain over the year is due to all the unhealthy eating I was doing. Each meal I had was chock full of unnecessary carbs (rice) and lotsa of oil and meat with not too many veggies except for some occasions. But the killer must be the midnight snacking... man... So rather starving myself miserably a proper diet would look like normal except healthy right? Here's what I'm thinking now. 8:00 AM two eggs 10:00 Yogurt and fruits? Or shop around for a protein supplement. 12:00 Chicken salad but I guess with more chicken cause that's the part of the meal that fills you up nicely 3:00 Another snack, yogurt is my favorite but I guess I'll have to look up another alternative 6:00 Chicken Salad with more chicken 8:00 PM after working out is it ok to have another snack? 9 PM - Bed no more food I'm really confident that if I just throw in another breast I'll be completely content. I think my "normal" diet would come out to just around 2000 calories and I would feel like crap (I feel fat) at the end of the day, with this diet I'm guessing 1500. Sounds perfect to me, almost too easy to be true. But I can understand how some people can have trouble when they would normally eat an exorbitant amount of food. I've only gained these 10lbs over this year when I started to eat a meal at like midnight or in the early hours. also just check the values of what you eat and try to be 45/40/15 as in Protein/Carbs/Fats.... Absolutely no need to go beyond 40% on proteins. Effective intake is about 30-35% (40 to be sure) everything beyond 40% goes as fuel, your metabolism will burn it away. 40/40/20 or 35/45/20 is ideal imo. Yeah okay thats fine, 40/40/20 is pretty much the standard anyways.
completely untrue, carbs are practically unnecessary (see ketogenic diet). I have been about 50% fat, 30-40% protein and remainder carbs for about 6 months now since switching to a loose paleo diet.
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On June 02 2011 06:59 forgotten0ne wrote:
THE CATCH-22
There’s an inherent obstacle in trying to become healthy, in that in order to become healthy, you need to have good motivation, but in order to have motivation, you need to be healthy.
hate to nit-pick, but i really don't agree with this part. maybe its the incorrect usage of "catch-22" that makes me hypercritical of the example. you don't need motivation to become healthy. healthy is the default; you need to be willing to stop doing unhealthy things to be healthy. and you don't need to be healthy to get motivated. people get motivated by the fear of death. it isn't a healthy person who gets bad cholesterol results, and then gets motivated to lower it.
i think you're just talking about overcoming laziness. and your laziness makes you believe you're stuck in some false paradox about being helpless to your lack of motivation to become healthy which is perpetuated by your unhealthiness.
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EPT
