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I signed.
This deserved to be signed.
I mainly signed regarding the cannabis usage as it does not arm at all.
I'm more concerned about the future of hard drugs that i think need to be prohibited.
But meeh, how can we prohibit stuff ? It'll always end on the black market but at bigger price.
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i just signed it before logging on to TL 
this is a no brainer really, to stop all the horrible violence by the drug gangs it makes sense to legalise and regulate drugs, then the gangs will have no profits.
Prison does nothing to help drug addicts, they need rehabilitation
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On June 01 2011 09:11 Itachii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 08:44 Shiragaku wrote:On June 01 2011 08:26 Itachii wrote:
Freedom my ass.They are banned for a reason.Drug and poison yourself if you want to, but don't make it easier for others. If your mommy told you that chocolate was bad and should not eat it, would you listen to her? your comparison is invalid come again Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 08:55 Grettin wrote:On June 01 2011 08:26 Itachii wrote:
Freedom my ass.They are banned for a reason.Drug and poison yourself if you want to, but don't make it easier for others. I guess its gonna be hard for you now, since drugs are 'decriminalized' in Poland. No, they are not.
Really? This says different. (and oh yeah, let me write that last post of mine again, with correction: "since drugs are soon to be 'decriminalized' in Poland.")
http://www.thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/25059,President-signs
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On June 01 2011 09:44 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 09:28 RoarMan wrote:On June 01 2011 09:20 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 09:04 turdburgler wrote:On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user? endangering the lives of others and staking their stuff isnt personal freedom using meth ONLY AFFECTS THE USER. addiction, segregation, having to deal with career criminals, these are the things that affect the community around a drug user. You've got to be kidding right? Main effects of Meth: Aggression Paranoia Hallucinations Feelings of invincibility And you're telling me that this only affects the user, that it has no consequences for the people around that person? Most people on drugs do not have an urge to kill people or even harm another human being because most sober people don't have the urge to kill or harm people. When you're high, you're just high. It doesn't turn you into a violent human being. Actually it does. That's what "aggression and paranoia" means. Yea being high in your home on weed with your friends is cool and all, but that's not what we're talking about here. Again: Agitation, irritability, talkativeness, panic, compulsive fascination with repetitive tasks, violence, confusion.
When talking about meth, you're right.
When talking about most other drugs you're most certainly wrong.
First of all, violent behaviour is only exhibited by usage of a small part of all drugs (such as amphetamins).
Furthermore, all the negative things you've listed are side effects! Only a small margin of people who try drugs experience them. Also, if you experience "agitation, irritability, panic, confusion", are you going to do that drug again? Probably not. You certainly won't become a habitual user. So there is hardly any harm done.
I'd also like you to explain me how talkativeness or compulsive fascination with repetitive tasks is bad, harmful, or negative in any way.
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We all ready have 'regulations' in place called laws against theft, property, and person. There doesn't need to be any regulations whatsoever on the production, sell, distribution, or otherwise of drugs. What we need to do is repeal all regulations not add more bureaucracy. Now, while I support the immediate end to the War on Liberty (aka War on Drugs) which produces mass amounts of violence I cannot support the means this thread advocates because the further away the institution is from the people the more tyrannical it becomes and thus, World Government and International Government is the most destructive to human liberty. The UN has horrible human rights record and has MASSIVE corruption. Why on Earth would you want to set the precedent where the UN is de-facto World Government where it can tell all sovereign Nations what policies are acceptable and which isn't. DC is corrupt enough -- no need to put the seat of power even further from the individual.
What's the old saying....think global act local. Support your local Nullification and Interposition movements. Support local independence movements (Such as Vermont State Independence and the State of Jefferson movement). Nothing good will come from the UN.
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On June 01 2011 09:46 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 09:37 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 09:21 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 09:16 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 08:55 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user? What about Salvia or Cannabis or LSD? What about using drugs in the privacy of your own home? What about that? Well i'm not a doctor, and obviously there needs to be some drugs that are legal and some that arent, but about those 3... I could list all the side effects of salvia/LSD but the list is probably too long. Basically you see stuff that isnt real. Would you want someone driving on LSD? Or or owning a gun? No... what is your point? Do I want someone blackout drunk to drive a car? No. Is it legal? No. Would it be legal to drive on LSD? No. Is it more likely than someone driving blackout drunk? No.
I dont know what to say, as i said i'm not a doctor. But no, i dont want drugs that make people hallucinate made legal.
and yet you can't provide an argument as to why
And you cant make a law that says that "you can only use drugs in your own home". Either drugs are legal or they arent. I dont care if you use them at the parking lot or in your own house.
There already are laws like that. And even if there weren't, they certainly could be made. But there are. So you're wrong. oh and btw, I would love to see this long list of salvia/LSD side effects. Or even a short list. Plz, inform me. Ok, would you want heroin made legal? As in everyone could buy it, anytime, anywhere? No. (if you say yes then idk what to say). no. I never said anything about heroin, afaik we were never talking about Heroin, I brought up specific other drugs. Show nested quote +
It's the same reason i dont want LSD made legal. Everyone draws the line somewhere, i'm just a lot more apprehensive than you are.
What reason? You don't have one, that's why you aren't giving one. The reason to not make heroin legal would be that it's extremely harmful and addictive. LSD is not. So how does that reasoning apply to LSD Show nested quote +
Sure it's illegal to drive drunk, but people still do it right? And it kills thousands of people each year. I wouldn't want the same to happen with LSD.
First of all, no one on LSD would want to drive. Secondly, if someone wanted to drive on LSD they can do it regardless of whether or not LSD is legal. Thirdly, no one would eeeeverrrr want to drive on LSD. Show nested quote +
About the "using drugs in your home thing", we're talking about making it legal to buy drugs right? How does that have anything to do with "only do it in your own house"? There are already places where it's legal to use drugs, places that are setup by the government for that purpose.
Are you suppose to be refuting what I said? Yes, we are talking about making it legal to buy drugs. And if you were worried about people doing said drugs out in public, it could be made so it's only legal to do them in your homes. I don't know what you are talking about. Show nested quote +
You can just google the side effects of LSD/salvia, but i can copy paste a few if you'd like...
I did google it just to make sure I was right that there were almost no known side effects that last after the usage. You're about to spout a bunch of unsourced B.S., and/or give me side effects that no one cares about because they happen DURING the trip. Everyone knows you can have bad trips, it's a risk oftaking the drug. But does it have lasting effects, that's what people care about. Salvia has NO known lasting effects, and the only known lasting effect of LSD is that some people can sometimes have flashbacks from strong trips. It may be that in some very very rare cases hallucinogens can cause mental/psychotic breakdowns but I would expect that has more to do with the person taking it than the drug itself. Show nested quote +
psychological or emotional effects such as anxiety, depression, dizziness, disorientation and paranoia.
physical effects such as dilated pupils, lowered body temperature, nausea, vomiting, profuse sweating, rapid heart rate; and convulsions
prolonged anxiety and depression after use of the drug is stopped
changes in mood and sensory perception
Ok. You say you dont want heroin legalized because it is harmful and addictive. That's why i dont want LSD legalized as well. (not addictive, just harmful). You say it isnt harmful, ok. I disagree. You want me to prove it's harmful? I cant. And you cant prove it's not harmful. I can list all the side effects but in the end it just comes down to that you disagree that the side effects arent harmful.What do you want me to say to that?
Under the influence of LSD, the ability to make sensible judgments and see common dangers is impaired
Some LSD users also experience severe, terrifying thoughts and feelings, fear of losing control, fear of insanity and death
From drugs.com/lsd
I think that these side effects is enough reason not to legalize it, you dont.
I dont know if you're gonna say that isnt a reliable source, looks legit to me 
Anyways, i gotta sleep now, so i guess i'll just agree to disagree
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I say every recreational drug, yes even heroin and the like, should be legal.
Enough with the nanny state BS, make everything legal, charge taxes for it and stop wasting money in armies/police/jails to enforce this nonsensical laws.
Instead, spend all that money in prevention and education, as well as rehabilitation options for addicted users, if someone still decides to destroy themselves using drugs, so be it.
I'm rather tired of my country spending my tax money, and wasting thousands of lives, just to try and stop american and western european kids from doing what they want.
Let them kill themselves if they wish it so much, and stop wasting so much money and lives in such an useless quest.
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On June 01 2011 10:09 Steppen_Wolf wrote:
Instead, spend all that money in prevention and education, as well as rehabilitation options for addicted users, if someone still decides to destroy themselves using drugs, so be it.
this.
/thread
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On June 01 2011 09:58 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 09:46 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 09:37 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 09:21 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 09:16 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 08:55 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user? What about Salvia or Cannabis or LSD? What about using drugs in the privacy of your own home? What about that? Well i'm not a doctor, and obviously there needs to be some drugs that are legal and some that arent, but about those 3... I could list all the side effects of salvia/LSD but the list is probably too long. Basically you see stuff that isnt real. Would you want someone driving on LSD? Or or owning a gun? No... what is your point? Do I want someone blackout drunk to drive a car? No. Is it legal? No. Would it be legal to drive on LSD? No. Is it more likely than someone driving blackout drunk? No.
I dont know what to say, as i said i'm not a doctor. But no, i dont want drugs that make people hallucinate made legal.
and yet you can't provide an argument as to why
And you cant make a law that says that "you can only use drugs in your own home". Either drugs are legal or they arent. I dont care if you use them at the parking lot or in your own house.
There already are laws like that. And even if there weren't, they certainly could be made. But there are. So you're wrong. oh and btw, I would love to see this long list of salvia/LSD side effects. Or even a short list. Plz, inform me. Ok, would you want heroin made legal? As in everyone could buy it, anytime, anywhere? No. (if you say yes then idk what to say). no. I never said anything about heroin, afaik we were never talking about Heroin, I brought up specific other drugs.
It's the same reason i dont want LSD made legal. Everyone draws the line somewhere, i'm just a lot more apprehensive than you are.
What reason? You don't have one, that's why you aren't giving one. The reason to not make heroin legal would be that it's extremely harmful and addictive. LSD is not. So how does that reasoning apply to LSD
Sure it's illegal to drive drunk, but people still do it right? And it kills thousands of people each year. I wouldn't want the same to happen with LSD.
First of all, no one on LSD would want to drive. Secondly, if someone wanted to drive on LSD they can do it regardless of whether or not LSD is legal. Thirdly, no one would eeeeverrrr want to drive on LSD.
About the "using drugs in your home thing", we're talking about making it legal to buy drugs right? How does that have anything to do with "only do it in your own house"? There are already places where it's legal to use drugs, places that are setup by the government for that purpose.
Are you suppose to be refuting what I said? Yes, we are talking about making it legal to buy drugs. And if you were worried about people doing said drugs out in public, it could be made so it's only legal to do them in your homes. I don't know what you are talking about.
You can just google the side effects of LSD/salvia, but i can copy paste a few if you'd like...
I did google it just to make sure I was right that there were almost no known side effects that last after the usage. You're about to spout a bunch of unsourced B.S., and/or give me side effects that no one cares about because they happen DURING the trip. Everyone knows you can have bad trips, it's a risk oftaking the drug. But does it have lasting effects, that's what people care about. Salvia has NO known lasting effects, and the only known lasting effect of LSD is that some people can sometimes have flashbacks from strong trips. It may be that in some very very rare cases hallucinogens can cause mental/psychotic breakdowns but I would expect that has more to do with the person taking it than the drug itself.
psychological or emotional effects such as anxiety, depression, dizziness, disorientation and paranoia.
physical effects such as dilated pupils, lowered body temperature, nausea, vomiting, profuse sweating, rapid heart rate; and convulsions
prolonged anxiety and depression after use of the drug is stopped
changes in mood and sensory perception
Ok. You say you dont want heroin legalized because it is harmful and addictive. That's why i dont want LSD legalized as well. (not addictive, just harmful). You say it isnt harmful, ok. I disagree. You want me to prove it's harmful? I cant. And you cant prove it's not harmful. I can list all the side effects but in the end it just comes down to that you disagree that the side effects arent harmful.What do you want me to say to that?
its proven that heroin is very very harmful. so if you cant prove it for lsd why bring it up?
and possible sideffects are just possible sideffects. look at the little sheet of paper in your box of aspirin. read the sideeffects. some of them are far worse then what you just listed for lsd.
On June 01 2011 09:58 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 09:46 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 09:37 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 09:21 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 09:16 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 08:55 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user? What about Salvia or Cannabis or LSD? What about using drugs in the privacy of your own home? What about that? Well i'm not a doctor, and obviously there needs to be some drugs that are legal and some that arent, but about those 3... I could list all the side effects of salvia/LSD but the list is probably too long. Basically you see stuff that isnt real. Would you want someone driving on LSD? Or or owning a gun? No... what is your point? Do I want someone blackout drunk to drive a car? No. Is it legal? No. Would it be legal to drive on LSD? No. Is it more likely than someone driving blackout drunk? No.
I dont know what to say, as i said i'm not a doctor. But no, i dont want drugs that make people hallucinate made legal.
and yet you can't provide an argument as to why
And you cant make a law that says that "you can only use drugs in your own home". Either drugs are legal or they arent. I dont care if you use them at the parking lot or in your own house.
There already are laws like that. And even if there weren't, they certainly could be made. But there are. So you're wrong. oh and btw, I would love to see this long list of salvia/LSD side effects. Or even a short list. Plz, inform me. Ok, would you want heroin made legal? As in everyone could buy it, anytime, anywhere? No. (if you say yes then idk what to say). no. I never said anything about heroin, afaik we were never talking about Heroin, I brought up specific other drugs.
It's the same reason i dont want LSD made legal. Everyone draws the line somewhere, i'm just a lot more apprehensive than you are.
What reason? You don't have one, that's why you aren't giving one. The reason to not make heroin legal would be that it's extremely harmful and addictive. LSD is not. So how does that reasoning apply to LSD
Sure it's illegal to drive drunk, but people still do it right? And it kills thousands of people each year. I wouldn't want the same to happen with LSD.
First of all, no one on LSD would want to drive. Secondly, if someone wanted to drive on LSD they can do it regardless of whether or not LSD is legal. Thirdly, no one would eeeeverrrr want to drive on LSD.
About the "using drugs in your home thing", we're talking about making it legal to buy drugs right? How does that have anything to do with "only do it in your own house"? There are already places where it's legal to use drugs, places that are setup by the government for that purpose.
Are you suppose to be refuting what I said? Yes, we are talking about making it legal to buy drugs. And if you were worried about people doing said drugs out in public, it could be made so it's only legal to do them in your homes. I don't know what you are talking about.
You can just google the side effects of LSD/salvia, but i can copy paste a few if you'd like...
I did google it just to make sure I was right that there were almost no known side effects that last after the usage. You're about to spout a bunch of unsourced B.S., and/or give me side effects that no one cares about because they happen DURING the trip. Everyone knows you can have bad trips, it's a risk oftaking the drug. But does it have lasting effects, that's what people care about. Salvia has NO known lasting effects, and the only known lasting effect of LSD is that some people can sometimes have flashbacks from strong trips. It may be that in some very very rare cases hallucinogens can cause mental/psychotic breakdowns but I would expect that has more to do with the person taking it than the drug itself.
psychological or emotional effects such as anxiety, depression, dizziness, disorientation and paranoia.
physical effects such as dilated pupils, lowered body temperature, nausea, vomiting, profuse sweating, rapid heart rate; and convulsions
prolonged anxiety and depression after use of the drug is stopped
changes in mood and sensory perception
Under the influence of LSD, the ability to make sensible judgments and see common dangers is impairedSome LSD users also experience severe, terrifying thoughts and feelings, fear of losing control, fear of insanity and deathFrom drugs.com/lsd I think that these side effects is enough reason not to legalize it, you dont. I dont know if you're gonna say that isnt a reliable source, looks legit to me
its a drug. ofcourse some body functions will be altered or imparied. again tonsy of the freely available medication/drugs/plants out there do similar things.
i dont see your point rally. ofcourse proper drug education and information instead of "drugs are bad mmkay. they make you kill ppl and jump out of windows mmkay" is a must. but where is the argument for the current system?
On June 01 2011 10:09 Steppen_Wolf wrote:
I say every recreational drug, yes even heroin and the like, should be legal.
Enough with the nanny state BS, make everything legal, charge taxes for it and stop wasting money in armies/police/jails to enforce this nonsensical laws.
Instead, spend all that money in prevention and education, as well as rehabilitation options for addicted users, if someone still decides to destroy themselves using drugs, so be it.
I'm rather tired of my country spending my tax money, and wasting thousands of lives, just to try and stop american and western european kids from doing what they want.
Let them kill themselves if they wish it so much, and stop wasting so much money and lives in such an useless quest.
i def would exclude heroin. there is pretty much no responsible use with that substance. i know people who just sometimes take other highly addicting drugs like cocain but i never heard of someone who just uses some heroin sometimes. also you can overdose to lethal levels very easily. which is impossible or easily avoidable (esp with regulated controlled production) with other drugs.
but i agree on the rest. there is so much potential money in this. taxes and no further waste of taxes could do so much good. and if they just spend 10% of that money to educate and properly deal with addicted people im sure the overall "drug situation" would get better also.
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On June 01 2011 09:58 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 09:46 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 09:37 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 09:21 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 09:16 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 08:55 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user? What about Salvia or Cannabis or LSD? What about using drugs in the privacy of your own home? What about that? Well i'm not a doctor, and obviously there needs to be some drugs that are legal and some that arent, but about those 3... I could list all the side effects of salvia/LSD but the list is probably too long. Basically you see stuff that isnt real. Would you want someone driving on LSD? Or or owning a gun? No... what is your point? Do I want someone blackout drunk to drive a car? No. Is it legal? No. Would it be legal to drive on LSD? No. Is it more likely than someone driving blackout drunk? No.
I dont know what to say, as i said i'm not a doctor. But no, i dont want drugs that make people hallucinate made legal.
and yet you can't provide an argument as to why
And you cant make a law that says that "you can only use drugs in your own home". Either drugs are legal or they arent. I dont care if you use them at the parking lot or in your own house.
There already are laws like that. And even if there weren't, they certainly could be made. But there are. So you're wrong. oh and btw, I would love to see this long list of salvia/LSD side effects. Or even a short list. Plz, inform me. Ok, would you want heroin made legal? As in everyone could buy it, anytime, anywhere? No. (if you say yes then idk what to say). no. I never said anything about heroin, afaik we were never talking about Heroin, I brought up specific other drugs.
It's the same reason i dont want LSD made legal. Everyone draws the line somewhere, i'm just a lot more apprehensive than you are.
What reason? You don't have one, that's why you aren't giving one. The reason to not make heroin legal would be that it's extremely harmful and addictive. LSD is not. So how does that reasoning apply to LSD
Sure it's illegal to drive drunk, but people still do it right? And it kills thousands of people each year. I wouldn't want the same to happen with LSD.
First of all, no one on LSD would want to drive. Secondly, if someone wanted to drive on LSD they can do it regardless of whether or not LSD is legal. Thirdly, no one would eeeeverrrr want to drive on LSD.
About the "using drugs in your home thing", we're talking about making it legal to buy drugs right? How does that have anything to do with "only do it in your own house"? There are already places where it's legal to use drugs, places that are setup by the government for that purpose.
Are you suppose to be refuting what I said? Yes, we are talking about making it legal to buy drugs. And if you were worried about people doing said drugs out in public, it could be made so it's only legal to do them in your homes. I don't know what you are talking about.
You can just google the side effects of LSD/salvia, but i can copy paste a few if you'd like...
I did google it just to make sure I was right that there were almost no known side effects that last after the usage. You're about to spout a bunch of unsourced B.S., and/or give me side effects that no one cares about because they happen DURING the trip. Everyone knows you can have bad trips, it's a risk oftaking the drug. But does it have lasting effects, that's what people care about. Salvia has NO known lasting effects, and the only known lasting effect of LSD is that some people can sometimes have flashbacks from strong trips. It may be that in some very very rare cases hallucinogens can cause mental/psychotic breakdowns but I would expect that has more to do with the person taking it than the drug itself.
psychological or emotional effects such as anxiety, depression, dizziness, disorientation and paranoia.
physical effects such as dilated pupils, lowered body temperature, nausea, vomiting, profuse sweating, rapid heart rate; and convulsions
prolonged anxiety and depression after use of the drug is stopped
changes in mood and sensory perception
Ok. You say you dont want heroin legalized because it is harmful and addictive. That's why i dont want LSD legalized as well. (not addictive, just harmful). You say it isnt harmful, ok. I disagree. You want me to prove it's harmful? I cant. And you cant prove it's not harmful. I can list all the side effects but in the end it just comes down to that you disagree that the side effects arent harmful.What do you want me to say to that? Under the influence of LSD, the ability to make sensible judgments and see common dangers is impairedSome LSD users also experience severe, terrifying thoughts and feelings, fear of losing control, fear of insanity and deathFrom drugs.com/lsd I think that these side effects is enough reason not to legalize it, you dont. I dont know if you're gonna say that isnt a reliable source, looks legit to me Anyways, i gotta sleep now, so i guess i'll just agree to disagree
LSD is harmless, I've done it multiple times and I can say 100% sure that being drunk is more difficult than being on a decent dose of lsd (2+ tabs).
So you're really wrong in like all aspects. The only danger of LSD is getting too wasted and hurting your self (you have friends with you? You're good to go, and alcohol does the same exact fucking thing, except you're more likely to get violent and belligerent on alcohol than you are on LSD, on LSD you're going to be happy and loving) or HPPD, which in most cases is very very minor.
If you think weed is cool and fine, but LSD is harmful, you have absolutely no knowledge of drugs what so ever. (P.S. LSD is safer than pot, and pot is safer than caffeine)
"Some LSD users also experience severe, terrifying thoughts and feelings, fear of losing control, fear of insanity and death"
Oh yeah, by the way, scary thoughts are your reasoning for banning a drug that deserves to be free? This is soooooooo saddening, you really have no idea.
Also, death comes from fucking injecting lots and lots of LSD, NO ONE DOES THAT. Of course the sentence im assuming is talking about "fear of death" because you don't actually die from LSD.
Also, you earlier said weeds fine, but what the fuck do you think weed does as well?
" sensible judgments and see common dangers is impaired"
Oh yeah, that. Like pretty much every single drug out there.
Also, just a little personal note.
LSD is easily the most magical and spiritual experience I have ever had, nothing but good can come from that drug. I think society as a whole would benefit if everyone had a mushroom trip, lsd trip, or some psychedelic experience.
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On June 01 2011 10:12 laste wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 10:09 Steppen_Wolf wrote:
Instead, spend all that money in prevention and education, as well as rehabilitation options for addicted users, if someone still decides to destroy themselves using drugs, so be it. this. /thread
how can you say that have you ever seen the numbers on how the non faith based rehabilitation programs do? Its just stupid to think that when you get drugs like heroin into the mix and how well thats going to do in a government institution.
I'm calling it now DARE 2 FTW. Do you realize how sky high the costs of health care is today and how huge it would be if we did legalize any drug at all?
Edit: I won't comment anymore on them but some of the trolls in this thread are classic or really really depressing. I really hope that the disinformation campaigns haven't been this effective.
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On June 01 2011 10:26 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 10:12 laste wrote:On June 01 2011 10:09 Steppen_Wolf wrote:
Instead, spend all that money in prevention and education, as well as rehabilitation options for addicted users, if someone still decides to destroy themselves using drugs, so be it. this. /thread how can you say that have you ever seen the numbers on how the non faith based rehabilitation programs do? Its just stupid to think that when you get drugs like heroin into the mix and how well thats going to do in a government institution. I'm calling it now DARE 2 FTW. Do you realize how sky high the costs of health care is today and how huge it would be if we did legalize any drug at all? Edit: I won't comment anymore on them but some of the trolls in this thread are classic or really really depressing. I really hope that the disinformation campaigns haven't been this effective.
What makes you think that people do not do heroin because it is illegal rather than they know it is a harmful substance? Obviously the illegality of an act does not really stop anyone from the activity -- if anything people are attracted to rebellious acts. I do not think the amount of people who do drugs would rise or fall too much with legalization, nor do I think this merits any consideration. People have a natural right to use their body as they wish as long as they do not violate the rights of others. Doing drugs does not violate anyone elses rights.
I also have to laugh at your horrendous utilitarian argument which you proceed to want to make everything illegal that costs money...well there goes everything fun, and there goes transportation (which kills 50,000 Americans every year on Government-roads). What's next? Fats, salt, sugar, skydiving, skateboarding, snowboarding, swimming? How about we stop socializing Health care and then it wouldn't matter what activities people engage in because you are not paying for their shit.
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but if we legalize it then won't more innocent people wants to try drug because its easier to get? and get addicted and F***k up their life????????????????????????????????????????????? i dont get this at all
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On June 01 2011 10:45 kenwoo wrote:
but if we legalize it then won't more innocent people wants to try drug because its easier to get? and get addicted and F***k up their life????????????????????????????????????????????? i dont get this at all
That's all based off extreme assumptions. What if drugs are legalized and some guy accidentally buys heroin thinking it was weed then goes crazy and shoots everyone? Silly line of thought.
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On June 01 2011 10:45 kenwoo wrote:
but if we legalize it then won't more innocent people wants to try drug because its easier to get? and get addicted and F***k up their life????????????????????????????????????????????? i dont get this at all
The morality tyrants are the worst. Who the fuck cares if someone else wants to do drugs? Most people do not do drugs because they realize the harmful effects not because it is illegal, just like most people do not go around murdering others because they are opposed to the act for moral reasons not because it is illegal.
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On June 01 2011 10:23 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 09:58 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 09:46 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 09:37 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 09:21 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 09:16 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 08:55 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user? What about Salvia or Cannabis or LSD? What about using drugs in the privacy of your own home? What about that? Well i'm not a doctor, and obviously there needs to be some drugs that are legal and some that arent, but about those 3... I could list all the side effects of salvia/LSD but the list is probably too long. Basically you see stuff that isnt real. Would you want someone driving on LSD? Or or owning a gun? No... what is your point? Do I want someone blackout drunk to drive a car? No. Is it legal? No. Would it be legal to drive on LSD? No. Is it more likely than someone driving blackout drunk? No.
I dont know what to say, as i said i'm not a doctor. But no, i dont want drugs that make people hallucinate made legal.
and yet you can't provide an argument as to why
And you cant make a law that says that "you can only use drugs in your own home". Either drugs are legal or they arent. I dont care if you use them at the parking lot or in your own house.
There already are laws like that. And even if there weren't, they certainly could be made. But there are. So you're wrong. oh and btw, I would love to see this long list of salvia/LSD side effects. Or even a short list. Plz, inform me. Ok, would you want heroin made legal? As in everyone could buy it, anytime, anywhere? No. (if you say yes then idk what to say). no. I never said anything about heroin, afaik we were never talking about Heroin, I brought up specific other drugs.
It's the same reason i dont want LSD made legal. Everyone draws the line somewhere, i'm just a lot more apprehensive than you are.
What reason? You don't have one, that's why you aren't giving one. The reason to not make heroin legal would be that it's extremely harmful and addictive. LSD is not. So how does that reasoning apply to LSD
Sure it's illegal to drive drunk, but people still do it right? And it kills thousands of people each year. I wouldn't want the same to happen with LSD.
First of all, no one on LSD would want to drive. Secondly, if someone wanted to drive on LSD they can do it regardless of whether or not LSD is legal. Thirdly, no one would eeeeverrrr want to drive on LSD.
About the "using drugs in your home thing", we're talking about making it legal to buy drugs right? How does that have anything to do with "only do it in your own house"? There are already places where it's legal to use drugs, places that are setup by the government for that purpose.
Are you suppose to be refuting what I said? Yes, we are talking about making it legal to buy drugs. And if you were worried about people doing said drugs out in public, it could be made so it's only legal to do them in your homes. I don't know what you are talking about.
You can just google the side effects of LSD/salvia, but i can copy paste a few if you'd like...
I did google it just to make sure I was right that there were almost no known side effects that last after the usage. You're about to spout a bunch of unsourced B.S., and/or give me side effects that no one cares about because they happen DURING the trip. Everyone knows you can have bad trips, it's a risk oftaking the drug. But does it have lasting effects, that's what people care about. Salvia has NO known lasting effects, and the only known lasting effect of LSD is that some people can sometimes have flashbacks from strong trips. It may be that in some very very rare cases hallucinogens can cause mental/psychotic breakdowns but I would expect that has more to do with the person taking it than the drug itself.
psychological or emotional effects such as anxiety, depression, dizziness, disorientation and paranoia.
physical effects such as dilated pupils, lowered body temperature, nausea, vomiting, profuse sweating, rapid heart rate; and convulsions
prolonged anxiety and depression after use of the drug is stopped
changes in mood and sensory perception
Ok. You say you dont want heroin legalized because it is harmful and addictive. That's why i dont want LSD legalized as well. (not addictive, just harmful). You say it isnt harmful, ok. I disagree. You want me to prove it's harmful? I cant. And you cant prove it's not harmful. I can list all the side effects but in the end it just comes down to that you disagree that the side effects arent harmful.What do you want me to say to that? Under the influence of LSD, the ability to make sensible judgments and see common dangers is impairedSome LSD users also experience severe, terrifying thoughts and feelings, fear of losing control, fear of insanity and deathFrom drugs.com/lsd I think that these side effects is enough reason not to legalize it, you dont. I dont know if you're gonna say that isnt a reliable source, looks legit to me Anyways, i gotta sleep now, so i guess i'll just agree to disagree LSD is harmless, I've done it multiple times and I can say 100% sure that being drunk is more difficult than being on a decent dose of lsd (2+ tabs). So you're really wrong in like all aspects. The only danger of LSD is getting too wasted and hurting your self (you have friends with you? You're good to go, and alcohol does the same exact fucking thing, except you're more likely to get violent and belligerent on alcohol than you are on LSD, on LSD you're going to be happy and loving) or HPPD, which in most cases is very very minor. If you think weed is cool and fine, but LSD is harmful, you have absolutely no knowledge of drugs what so ever. (P.S. LSD is safer than pot, and pot is safer than caffeine) "Some LSD users also experience severe, terrifying thoughts and feelings, fear of losing control, fear of insanity and death" Oh yeah, by the way, scary thoughts are your reasoning for banning a drug that deserves to be free? This is soooooooo saddening, you really have no idea. Also, death comes from fucking injecting lots and lots of LSD, NO ONE DOES THAT. Of course the sentence im assuming is talking about "fear of death" because you don't actually die from LSD. Also, you earlier said weeds fine, but what the fuck do you think weed does as well? " sensible judgments and see common dangers is impaired" Oh yeah, that. Like pretty much every single drug out there. Also, just a little personal note. LSD is easily the most magical and spiritual experience I have ever had, nothing but good can come from that drug. I think society as a whole would benefit if everyone had a mushroom trip, lsd trip, or some psychedelic experience.
Uh, tripping can be absolutely terrifying and difficult, far more than being drunk.
I've never met anyone who has gone from ecstatic to complete paranoia to complete ego death in a matter of minutes on alcohol, not have I seen people running around screaming and babbling incoherently while on alcohol. I haven't even been around people using hallucinogens very much, and I've seen some bizarre stuff.
That being said, I don't see any reason why it should be illegal. It's temporary, and most people don't react negatively. I've also never seen anyone get into a fight or crash their car on LSD, whereas I know several people who routinely get into fights when they're drunk, and I've know a few people who have gotten drunk and totalled their car.
Also, Travis, maybe you and your friends are smart enough not to drive on LSD, but one of my good friends does fairly often, despite me being like "wtf is wrong with you" every time. Some people are just irresponsible with drug use.
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On June 01 2011 10:48 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 10:45 kenwoo wrote:
but if we legalize it then won't more innocent people wants to try drug because its easier to get? and get addicted and F***k up their life????????????????????????????????????????????? i dont get this at all That's all based off extreme assumptions. What if drugs are legalized and some guy accidentally buys heroin thinking it was weed then goes crazy and shoots everyone? Silly line of thought.
its definitely a possibility, alot of my friends dont try drugs because they dont know where to get it but if its just over the counter holy crap everyone would be smoking
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Actually, I think the War on Terror is more senseless ^_^
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On June 01 2011 10:51 kenwoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 10:48 PanN wrote:On June 01 2011 10:45 kenwoo wrote:
but if we legalize it then won't more innocent people wants to try drug because its easier to get? and get addicted and F***k up their life????????????????????????????????????????????? i dont get this at all That's all based off extreme assumptions. What if drugs are legalized and some guy accidentally buys heroin thinking it was weed then goes crazy and shoots everyone? Silly line of thought. its definitely a possibility, alot of my friends dont try drugs because they dont know where to get it but if its just over the counter holy crap everyone would be smoking
You're assuming again. Just because its legal doesn't mean everyone will do it or try it. There are studies out there, and countries even, that have already legalized drugs and have shown little to no growth in drug use, some have even seen a decline (i can't think of the country name currently).
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On June 01 2011 10:53 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 10:51 kenwoo wrote:On June 01 2011 10:48 PanN wrote:On June 01 2011 10:45 kenwoo wrote:
but if we legalize it then won't more innocent people wants to try drug because its easier to get? and get addicted and F***k up their life????????????????????????????????????????????? i dont get this at all That's all based off extreme assumptions. What if drugs are legalized and some guy accidentally buys heroin thinking it was weed then goes crazy and shoots everyone? Silly line of thought. its definitely a possibility, alot of my friends dont try drugs because they dont know where to get it but if its just over the counter holy crap everyone would be smoking You're assuming again. Just because its legal doesn't mean everyone will do it or try it. There are studies out there, and countries even, that have already legalized drugs and have shown little to no growth in drug use, some have even seen a decline (i can't think of the country name currently).
Portugal.
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