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On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user?
endangering the lives of others and staking their stuff isnt personal freedom
using meth ONLY AFFECTS THE USER.
addiction, segregation, having to deal with career criminals, these are the things that affect the community around a drug user.
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On June 01 2011 09:04 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user? endangering the lives of others and staking their stuff isnt personal freedom using meth ONLY AFFECTS THE USER. addiction, segregation, having to deal with career criminals, these are the things that affect the community around a drug user.
But I would kind of like to point out to the introduction to cocaine in the African American community and I guess one could argue about the Opium War in China.
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Yes i just read the sources... always assumed its less marihuana and more cocain... 
By the way, I support legislation that emphasizes rehabilitation, prevents becoming addicted and helps addicted people. But on the same page I think harsh measures against dealers and smugglers are necessary in order to prevent large scale organisations from operating.
Its a question how many and what sort of drugs a society wants to tolerate. Its a thin line regulators/legislators have to walk.
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I think everyone would support rehabilitation for any type of addiction whether it is tobacco, alcohol, or cannabis. But the rehabilitation in America is just god awful. It can be traced back to the Health Care debates.
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On June 01 2011 09:06 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 09:04 turdburgler wrote:On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user? endangering the lives of others and staking their stuff isnt personal freedom using meth ONLY AFFECTS THE USER. addiction, segregation, having to deal with career criminals, these are the things that affect the community around a drug user. But I would kind of like to point out to the introduction to cocaine in the African American community and I guess one could argue about the Opium War in China.
Alcohol and prescription drugs can and are abused to the point of hard drugs such as cocaine or heroine, sometimes ever worse.
However this "War on Drugs" isn't an effective method at all. People with drug problems aren't going to benefit society or themselves from jails.
The War on Drugs creates a whole social stigma that sometimes disallows people who have serious drug problems to avoid seeking help.
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On June 01 2011 08:44 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 08:26 Itachii wrote:
Freedom my ass.They are banned for a reason.Drug and poison yourself if you want to, but don't make it easier for others. If your mommy told you that chocolate was bad and should not eat it, would you listen to her?
your comparison is invalid
come again
On June 01 2011 08:55 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 08:26 Itachii wrote:
Freedom my ass.They are banned for a reason.Drug and poison yourself if you want to, but don't make it easier for others. I guess its gonna be hard for you now, since drugs are 'decriminalized' in Poland.
No, they are not.
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On June 01 2011 08:55 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user? What about Salvia or Cannabis or LSD? What about using drugs in the privacy of your own home? What about that?
Well i'm not a doctor, and obviously there needs to be some drugs that are legal and some that arent, but about those 3...
I could list all the side effects of salvia/LSD but the list is probably too long. Basically you see stuff that isnt real. Would you want someone driving on LSD? Or or owning a gun?
I dont know what to say, as i said i'm not a doctor. But no, i dont want drugs that make people hallucinate made legal.
Cannabis i dont know, it probably wouldnt be too bad legalizing it, although i am still against it.
And you cant make a law that says that "you can only use drugs in your own home". Either drugs are legal or they arent. I dont care if you use them at the parking lot or in your own house.
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On June 01 2011 09:11 Itachii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 08:44 Shiragaku wrote:On June 01 2011 08:26 Itachii wrote:
Freedom my ass.They are banned for a reason.Drug and poison yourself if you want to, but don't make it easier for others. If your mommy told you that chocolate was bad and should not eat it, would you listen to her? your comparison is invalid come again Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 08:55 Grettin wrote:On June 01 2011 08:26 Itachii wrote:
Freedom my ass.They are banned for a reason.Drug and poison yourself if you want to, but don't make it easier for others. I guess its gonna be hard for you now, since drugs are 'decriminalized' in Poland. No, they are not.
That was the point of the joke :D
On June 01 2011 09:10 RoarMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 09:06 Shiragaku wrote:On June 01 2011 09:04 turdburgler wrote:On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user? endangering the lives of others and staking their stuff isnt personal freedom using meth ONLY AFFECTS THE USER. addiction, segregation, having to deal with career criminals, these are the things that affect the community around a drug user. But I would kind of like to point out to the introduction to cocaine in the African American community and I guess one could argue about the Opium War in China. Alcohol and prescription drugs can and are abused to the point of hard drugs such as cocaine or heroine, sometimes ever worse. However this "War on Drugs" isn't an effective method at all. People with drug problems aren't going to benefit society or themselves from jails. The War on Drugs creates a whole social stigma that sometimes disallows people who have serious drug problems to avoid seeking help.
I agree with you for the most part. But what would you say about the alcohol problem that fucked up Russia so many times in history? I guess it is environmental but a legal drug nonetheless caused lots of economic troubles.
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On June 01 2011 09:04 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user? endangering the lives of others and staking their stuff isnt personal freedom using meth ONLY AFFECTS THE USER. addiction, segregation, having to deal with career criminals, these are the things that affect the community around a drug user.
You've got to be kidding right? Main effects of Meth:
Aggression
Paranoia
Hallucinations
Feelings of invincibility
And you're telling me that this only affects the user, that it has no consequences for the people around that person?
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On June 01 2011 09:16 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 08:55 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user? What about Salvia or Cannabis or LSD? What about using drugs in the privacy of your own home? What about that? Well i'm not a doctor, and obviously there needs to be some drugs that are legal and some that arent, but about those 3... I could list all the side effects of salvia/LSD but the list is probably too long. Basically you see stuff that isnt real. Would you want someone driving on LSD? Or or owning a gun?
No... what is your point? Do I want someone blackout drunk to drive a car? No. Is it legal? No. Would it be legal to drive on LSD? No. Is it more likely than someone driving blackout drunk? No.
I dont know what to say, as i said i'm not a doctor. But no, i dont want drugs that make people hallucinate made legal.
and yet you can't provide an argument as to why
And you cant make a law that says that "you can only use drugs in your own home". Either drugs are legal or they arent. I dont care if you use them at the parking lot or in your own house.
There already are laws like that. And even if there weren't, they certainly could be made. But there are. So you're wrong.
oh and btw, I would love to see this long list of salvia/LSD side effects. Or even a short list. Plz, inform me.
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On June 01 2011 09:20 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 09:04 turdburgler wrote:On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user? endangering the lives of others and staking their stuff isnt personal freedom using meth ONLY AFFECTS THE USER. addiction, segregation, having to deal with career criminals, these are the things that affect the community around a drug user. You've got to be kidding right? Main effects of Meth: Aggression Paranoia Hallucinations Feelings of invincibility And you're telling me that this only affects the user, that it has no consequences for the people around that person?
Most people on drugs do not have an urge to kill people or even harm another human being because most sober people don't have the urge to kill or harm people. When you're high, you're just high. It doesn't turn you into a violent human being.
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This gives me hope to end the insanity of the war on drugs at least in the U.S. This clip is the Republican Governor of New Mexico, who is running for president, at the South Carolina republican debates (about a month ago). On Fox news no less. Not only did the Candidates answer give me hope, but the crowds reaction.
IMO users of Meth, herion, crack, cocaine, and some other "hard" drugs should NOT be treated as criminals when in possession or under the influence. They should be placed in mandatory detox for a period of time (to go through the withdraws) and the amount of detox time should increase with each subsequent infraction. Try to actually help them instead of sending them to prison and potentially turning them into monsters. Give them a chance to get clean and regain control, and not have to carry those mistakes for the rest of their lives. No criminal record, unless other crimes were committed under the influence.
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On June 01 2011 09:21 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 09:16 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 08:55 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user? What about Salvia or Cannabis or LSD? What about using drugs in the privacy of your own home? What about that? Well i'm not a doctor, and obviously there needs to be some drugs that are legal and some that arent, but about those 3... I could list all the side effects of salvia/LSD but the list is probably too long. Basically you see stuff that isnt real. Would you want someone driving on LSD? Or or owning a gun? No... what is your point? Do I want someone blackout drunk to drive a car? No. Is it legal? No. Would it be legal to drive on LSD? No. Is it more likely than someone driving blackout drunk? No. Show nested quote +
I dont know what to say, as i said i'm not a doctor. But no, i dont want drugs that make people hallucinate made legal.
and yet you can't provide an argument as to why Show nested quote +
And you cant make a law that says that "you can only use drugs in your own home". Either drugs are legal or they arent. I dont care if you use them at the parking lot or in your own house.
There already are laws like that. And even if there weren't, they certainly could be made. But there are. So you're wrong. oh and btw, I would love to see this long list of salvia/LSD side effects. Or even a short list. Plz, inform me.
Ok, would you want heroin made legal? As in everyone could buy it, anytime, anywhere? No. (if you say yes then idk what to say). It's the same reason i dont want LSD made legal. Everyone draws the line somewhere, i'm just a lot more apprehensive than you are.
Sure it's illegal to drive drunk, but people still do it right? And it kills thousands of people each year. I wouldn't want the same to happen with LSD.
About the "using drugs in your home thing", we're talking about making it legal to buy drugs right? How does that have anything to do with "only do it in your own house"? There are already places where it's legal to use drugs, places that are setup by the government for that purpose.
You can just google the side effects of LSD/salvia, but i can copy paste a few if you'd like...
psychological or emotional effects such as anxiety, depression, dizziness, disorientation and paranoia.
physical effects such as dilated pupils, lowered body temperature, nausea, vomiting, profuse sweating, rapid heart rate; and convulsions
prolonged anxiety and depression after use of the drug is stopped
changes in mood and sensory perception
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The number one danger when talking about drugs is not the drugs, ANY DRUG (except meth, that shit's just insane) can be used for good purposes.
The problem is with the ill informed/straight up uneducated/plain stupid people that TAKE the drugs.
LSD can and for most people is a life changing positive experience, but it can also be misused by people that are of the traits above, shrooms, salvia, hell coke even.
Don't even bring up heroin, if you're doing that then there is some other really messed up shit in your life that also needs addressing far more than the substance used to dull the world.
I signed, and I seriously hope this passes.
As for people that DON'T know the proper use of most (at least psychedelic drugs) drugs is in a closed environment, with few if any people, or outside isolated from public space. A massive party out in the middle of the woods on private land is NOT public space btw, pretty much just totally away from society, so that one can have an experience.
All drugs can be misused though, as can guns, cars, food, shopping, gambling, porn, sex, fighting, and I'm sure there are plenty other thing that fit. Just cause people can eat themselves to oblivion, should we outlaw or put heavy restrictions on food consumption? The notion is absurd.
As is the War on Drugs.
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The worlds most senseless war is the inaction on the exploitation in turn creating poverty and lack of food and water... not drugs
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On June 01 2011 09:41 Lith wrote:
The worlds most senseless war is the inaction on the exploitation in turn creating poverty and lack of food and water... not drugs
Considering inaction on it's own a "War" is a really big stretch IMO. Yes, I agree it is a huge problem if not the worlds largest problem, but hardly relevant to this discussion.
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On June 01 2011 09:28 RoarMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 09:20 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 09:04 turdburgler wrote:On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user? endangering the lives of others and staking their stuff isnt personal freedom using meth ONLY AFFECTS THE USER. addiction, segregation, having to deal with career criminals, these are the things that affect the community around a drug user. You've got to be kidding right? Main effects of Meth: Aggression Paranoia Hallucinations Feelings of invincibility And you're telling me that this only affects the user, that it has no consequences for the people around that person? Most people on drugs do not have an urge to kill people or even harm another human being because most sober people don't have the urge to kill or harm people. When you're high, you're just high. It doesn't turn you into a violent human being.
Actually it does. That's what "aggression and paranoia" means.
Yea being high in your home on weed with your friends is cool and all, but that's not what we're talking about here.
Again:
Agitation, irritability, talkativeness, panic, compulsive fascination with repetitive tasks, violence, confusion.
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On June 01 2011 09:37 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 09:21 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 09:16 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 08:55 travis wrote:On June 01 2011 08:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On June 01 2011 07:35 Mastermind wrote:On June 01 2011 07:08 Voltaire wrote:
Signed. It's time for governments to stop wasting billions of dollars on restricting our personal freedoms. I agree with this man. Signed. Is it also your personal freedom to drive drunk or to steal from people? Drugs are just as harmful to those around you as they are to yourself. Unless you want to try and argue that using meth or heroin only affects the user? What about Salvia or Cannabis or LSD? What about using drugs in the privacy of your own home? What about that? Well i'm not a doctor, and obviously there needs to be some drugs that are legal and some that arent, but about those 3... I could list all the side effects of salvia/LSD but the list is probably too long. Basically you see stuff that isnt real. Would you want someone driving on LSD? Or or owning a gun? No... what is your point? Do I want someone blackout drunk to drive a car? No. Is it legal? No. Would it be legal to drive on LSD? No. Is it more likely than someone driving blackout drunk? No.
I dont know what to say, as i said i'm not a doctor. But no, i dont want drugs that make people hallucinate made legal.
and yet you can't provide an argument as to why
And you cant make a law that says that "you can only use drugs in your own home". Either drugs are legal or they arent. I dont care if you use them at the parking lot or in your own house.
There already are laws like that. And even if there weren't, they certainly could be made. But there are. So you're wrong. oh and btw, I would love to see this long list of salvia/LSD side effects. Or even a short list. Plz, inform me. Ok, would you want heroin made legal? As in everyone could buy it, anytime, anywhere? No. (if you say yes then idk what to say).
no. I never said anything about heroin, afaik we were never talking about Heroin, I brought up specific other drugs.
It's the same reason i dont want LSD made legal. Everyone draws the line somewhere, i'm just a lot more apprehensive than you are.
What reason? You don't have one, that's why you aren't giving one. The reason to not make heroin legal would be that it's extremely harmful and addictive. LSD is not. So how does that reasoning apply to LSD
Sure it's illegal to drive drunk, but people still do it right? And it kills thousands of people each year. I wouldn't want the same to happen with LSD.
First of all, no one on LSD would want to drive. Secondly, if someone wanted to drive on LSD they can do it regardless of whether or not LSD is legal. Thirdly, no one would eeeeverrrr want to drive on LSD.
About the "using drugs in your home thing", we're talking about making it legal to buy drugs right? How does that have anything to do with "only do it in your own house"? There are already places where it's legal to use drugs, places that are setup by the government for that purpose.
Are you suppose to be refuting what I said? Yes, we are talking about making it legal to buy drugs. And if you were worried about people doing said drugs out in public, it could be made so it's only legal to do them in your homes. I don't know what you are talking about.
You can just google the side effects of LSD/salvia, but i can copy paste a few if you'd like...
I did google it just to make sure I was right that there were almost no known side effects that last after the usage. You're about to spout a bunch of unsourced B.S., and/or give me side effects that no one cares about because they happen DURING the trip. Everyone knows you can have bad trips, it's a risk oftaking the drug. But does it have lasting effects, that's what people care about. Salvia has NO known lasting effects, and the only known lasting effect of LSD is that some people can sometimes have flashbacks from strong trips.
It may be that in some very very rare cases hallucinogens can cause mental/psychotic breakdowns but I would expect that has more to do with the person taking it than the drug itself.
psychological or emotional effects such as anxiety, depression, dizziness, disorientation and paranoia.
physical effects such as dilated pupils, lowered body temperature, nausea, vomiting, profuse sweating, rapid heart rate; and convulsions
prolonged anxiety and depression after use of the drug is stopped
changes in mood and sensory perception
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I saw a person that was really messed up on bath salts once by the way, should we launch a campaign on that as well?
You can't really put people in jail for every single thing that makes you high and its hypocritical to do so for handful of substances and ignore others. You might argue that the risk factor in the banned ones is much higher but I think we've established that thats absolute bullshit. You can poison yourself with pretty much anything you want from substances to world of warcraft. Why should heroin or cocaine be so special, can't it be common knowledge that if you take poison - you will poison yourself?
The idea I think is to tell people about it so they know the consequence of using whatever they use. And by tell I don't mean cite wikipedia but really make them understand what certain drugs do and if they still want to use them - they will, regardless of the laws.
edit*
I have a feeling I need to put this here : I don't want heroin/similarly dangerous drugs to be legal, I just think there are far better ways of controlling their abuse than prohibition.
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thought we learned our lesson with prohibition. oops no.
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EPT
