On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
Making enormous sweeping statements about every single person who produces electronic just makes you look like an uneducated person as well.
Add to that the fact that your assertions are completely and demonstrably false. A huge proportion of electronic artists have musical education and training, and probably even more are capable of playing traditional instruments. Do you even know how electronic music is produced? Notation is almost always entered using a peripheral keyboard (ie. a piano).
Don't care about chords and harmony? What? How the hell do you think they use chords and harmony without knowing about them? Do you honestly believe artist do not know what chords and harmony are? I PERSONALLY know at least five friends/acquaintances who have extensive classical training who produce and enjoy electronic music while paradoxically being able to play the violin/piano/drums/guitar/mandolin and vocals.
Even our beloved classical is now largely produced with the assistance of electronic mastering, notation, and even downright synthesized on a computer.
please spend 15 minutes educating yourself before you come and spew garbage on the internet.
Not gona get into the debate of genres of music but i agree its quite annoying to be on a night out expecting a drop then to be disapointed after holding your hands up for a while.
On May 09 2011 18:00 fineshed wrote: You're a bit vague with this argument -- what should a proper climax sound like? Give an example; don't give me a bunch of songs and say they're all lacking in an arbritrary element. Is it quantifiable?
It is called build up and release of tension. It can be hard to define. But say a riff is being played as a build up. If it ends up on a 7 (just below an octave, which means 8) tension builds up because it does not sound like the natural end.
Then, if after playing it 7 times, you play the 8 (octave) and continue playing it then you are resolving the built up tension and the whole thing feels different than it would if it was played in isolation.
You can do the same with rhythm. I would google for more if I wanted more
Build up and release of tension. That's what it is.
On May 09 2011 18:00 fineshed wrote: You're a bit vague with this argument -- what should a proper climax sound like? Give an example; don't give me a bunch of songs and say they're all lacking in an arbritrary element. Is it quantifiable?
It is called build up and release of tension. It can be hard to define. But say a riff is being played as a build up. If it ends up on a 7 (just below an octave, which means 8) tension builds up because it does not sound like the natural end.
Then, if after playing it 7 times, you play the 8 (octave) and continue playing it then you are resolving the built up tension and the whole thing feels different than it would if it was played in isolation.
You can do the same with rhythm. I would google for more if I wanted more
Build up and release of tension. That's what it is.
Sure, the tricky part is that you can release tension in two main ways.
1. Catharsis: The way the OP likes, a billiant crescendo and release of emotion.
2. Relaxation: Simply removing the tension.
Both CAN work if used correctly. I would use the example of the Trentemoller track posted earlier as an example of a successful usage of relaxation, building up to 2:10 and then just relaxing back down again. I found it quite satisfying. In my experience relaxation usually works alot better in more chill music.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
This is total BS. Some of the greatest (classical) music ever written was written by people with hardly any formal music education at all. And most of the 'academic' music that's currently made is absolutely horrific and are pretty much scientific knockoffs of things that have been done 20 times before.
Music requires creativity, not formal education, without this creativity any formal education is useless. Having it, and then receiving a formal education helps some, hurts others. Music isn't math and it sure as hell shouldn't be taught like it.
Sure, the tricky part is that you can release tension in two main ways.
1. Catharsis: The way the OP likes, a billiant crescendo and release of emotion.
2. Relaxation: Simply removing the tension.
Well, they are not interchangeable. Say you are having sex for example. Would you like to end because you climaxed or because you were relaxed, no need to climax
Anyway, yes. You are. Many ways to resolve. The song is very good I think, and Trentemøller will be looked at more . But I would disagree that there is build up of tension. There is certainly a build up, but it doesn't really give me an expectation that something else is coming later. That doesn't mean I disagree with your point though.
I recently found this guy named Ephixa who did a few remixes that I know some will find quite familiar. I thought i would leave it here for those who hate disappointing anti climaxes
to me, the examples from OP are not anticlimaxes, but breakdowns. i actually experience the break in the song as a climax... it's a matter of taste i guess.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
This is total BS. Some of the greatest (classical) music ever written was written by people with hardly any formal music education at all. And most of the 'academic' music that's currently made is absolutely horrific and are pretty much scientific knockoffs of things that have been done 20 times before.
Music requires creativity, not formal education, without this creativity any formal education is useless. Having it, and then receiving a formal education helps some, hurts others. Music isn't math and it sure as hell shouldn't be taught like it.
What you're misunderstanding is that the classic composers that didn't have a "formal education" still understanded the fundamentals of composing and their creativity blows any kind of modern dubstep garbage out of the water.
I'm not just hating on dubstep, the music industry and easily satisfied minds have turned away from what's truly good in music and are just looking for "the next big thing" so to speak.
I think what the artists are going for in the examples is a really contrasting drop. A really hard deep bass and kick only drop after a long teaser break can send a room completely mental (note that a drop which lacks high frequency content can make crowd noise more audible, which is great for that live feel). It can really accentuate the sub and gives you that shift in mood you can use to divert the set.
Also. I think part of what makes it interesting is the absense of melody, the reliance on the bass. Which is why you need a really nice bass to pull it off. An inverse of the big melody formula, rather than an anticlimax.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
This is total BS. Some of the greatest (classical) music ever written was written by people with hardly any formal music education at all. And most of the 'academic' music that's currently made is absolutely horrific and are pretty much scientific knockoffs of things that have been done 20 times before.
Music requires creativity, not formal education, without this creativity any formal education is useless. Having it, and then receiving a formal education helps some, hurts others. Music isn't math and it sure as hell shouldn't be taught like it.
What you're misunderstanding is that the classic composers that didn't have a "formal education" still understanded the fundamentals of composing and their creativity blows any kind of modern dubstep garbage out of the water.
I'm not just hating on dubstep, the music industry and easily satisfied minds have turned away from what's truly good in music and are just looking for "the next big thing" so to speak.
This is bizarre , you are comparing a few well known classical composers who have stood the test of time (IE hundreds of years) to a large number of recent electronic artists.
I can bet you at the time of Bachs peak there were hundreds , thousands of inferior composers who no-one can recall now.You can't just pick the best of the best classical artist and compare them to some middle of the road dubstep producer.Let electonica run for a couple hundred years and you will find composers on the same level as the classical maestros , but as i have said before you will have to wade through a lot of crap (no different to Beethovens or Vivaldis time)
It's rather well known that if a DJ does anti-climaxes, the crowd will go a lot more crazy when he finally does drop what they were expecting.
Also, concerning this:
On May 09 2011 22:41 OPman wrote: What you're misunderstanding is that the classic composers that didn't have a "formal education" still understanded the fundamentals of composing and their creativity blows any kind of modern dubstep garbage out of the water.
I'm not just hating on dubstep, the music industry and easily satisfied minds have turned away from what's truly good in music and are just looking for "the next big thing" so to speak.
While this rings true for all of that bro-step (OMG FILTHY!), there are also lesser known gems like Burial and Zomby, that do have a generic knack for writing music, imo.
On May 09 2011 22:41 OPman wrote:I'm not just hating on dubstep, the music industry and easily satisfied minds have turned away from what's truly good in music and are just looking for "the next big thing" so to speak.
There's no doubt there's an element of this in the dance music scene. I think you're right to be critical of the commercial drives of the industry. There is a lot of pressure on today's artists to ride trends in aesthetics. In the industry a single software preset for a synth can sometimes spawn a whole sub genre of music. But you shouldn't use these ideas for a sweeping generalisation. There is plenty of room for genius and talent within the industry. I'm pretty certain someone like Bach would have totally flipped out apon discovering an Moog or a copy of reaktor and made some damn tasty phat beats
EPT
