On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
This is total BS. Some of the greatest (classical) music ever written was written by people with hardly any formal music education at all. And most of the 'academic' music that's currently made is absolutely horrific and are pretty much scientific knockoffs of things that have been done 20 times before.
Music requires creativity, not formal education, without this creativity any formal education is useless. Having it, and then receiving a formal education helps some, hurts others. Music isn't math and it sure as hell shouldn't be taught like it.
What you're misunderstanding is that the classic composers that didn't have a "formal education" still understanded the fundamentals of composing and their creativity blows any kind of modern dubstep garbage out of the water.
I'm not just hating on dubstep, the music industry and easily satisfied minds have turned away from what's truly good in music and are just looking for "the next big thing" so to speak.
This is bizarre , you are comparing a few well known classical composers who have stood the test of time (IE hundreds of years) to a large number of recent electronic artists.
I can bet you at the time of Bachs peak there were hundreds , thousands of inferior composers who no-one can recall now.You can't just pick the best of the best classical artist and compare them to some middle of the road dubstep producer.Let electonica run for a couple hundred years and you will find composers on the same level as the classical maestros , but as i have said before you will have to wade through a lot of crap (no different to Beethovens or Vivaldis time)
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Lol sorry but i think by then people would realize thats dubstep can't possible provide anything TRULY worthwhile.
And neither does classical music. It's fucking music, people. I seriously can't believe this has gone into a thread complaining about what music is today and what it was in the past. Don't like it? Move the fuck on. Like it? Then listen to it.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
This is so ignorant. I can't disagree that most electronic music is terrible (though most genres share the same pitfall) but you have to acknowledge that there is some quality out there. There is in every genre.
Bjork is basically the finest example in my eyes. I hate citing singular tracks as examples seeing as her stuff is designed to be listened to in album format but...
There's other great artists whose music is heavily based on the electronic sound too. You just have to look for them instead of ruling out an entire genre for no good reason.
On topic though: That second song I posted (Pagan Poetry) doubles as a good example of the 'anti-climax', as you call it, being used to create interest.
I totally agree with the OP. I've noticed this a lot too lately. It's really something that gives me a lot of enjoyment out of ANY song really, doesn't even have to be electronic, to have some sort of climax in the song, some part for the song to work towards. Without it, a lot of songs end up feeling aimless and without conclusion.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
This is total BS. Some of the greatest (classical) music ever written was written by people with hardly any formal music education at all. And most of the 'academic' music that's currently made is absolutely horrific and are pretty much scientific knockoffs of things that have been done 20 times before.
Music requires creativity, not formal education, without this creativity any formal education is useless. Having it, and then receiving a formal education helps some, hurts others. Music isn't math and it sure as hell shouldn't be taught like it.
What you're misunderstanding is that the classic composers that didn't have a "formal education" still understanded the fundamentals of composing and their creativity blows any kind of modern dubstep garbage out of the water.
I'm not just hating on dubstep, the music industry and easily satisfied minds have turned away from what's truly good in music and are just looking for "the next big thing" so to speak.
This is bizarre , you are comparing a few well known classical composers who have stood the test of time (IE hundreds of years) to a large number of recent electronic artists.
I can bet you at the time of Bachs peak there were hundreds , thousands of inferior composers who no-one can recall now.You can't just pick the best of the best classical artist and compare them to some middle of the road dubstep producer.Let electonica run for a couple hundred years and you will find composers on the same level as the classical maestros , but as i have said before you will have to wade through a lot of crap (no different to Beethovens or Vivaldis time)
\
Lol sorry but i think by then people would realize thats dubstep can't possible provide anything TRULY worthwhile.
And neither does classical music. It's fucking music, people. I seriously can't believe this has gone into a thread complaining about what music is today and what it was in the past. Don't like it? Move the fuck on. Like it? Then listen to it.
It's been like this for ages, it's a matter of taste. I don't like it in most songs but sometimes in the dancefloor at a big party it's like playing with people's emotions. In some cases it can be quite humorous, something not a lot of eletronic music has nowadays. Good example of a 'funny drop':
The first minute and a half introduces for something epic only to give you a simple 4x4 beat.
About dubstep breaks... I like all electronic music genres, but dubstep has to have the most shitty productions. Most of the times it's producers who have been making dubstep for 1 year or so reading tutorials on youtube, but as long as they have the wobble bassline people go crazy... it's quite sad actually, because it takes almost to no skills to make a 'decent' dubstep track. Of course there is really good dubstep, but in the last 10 dubstep parties I've been it was the same sounds being used over and over again. I never got tired of a genre so fast as I did with dubstep, mainly because of those cheap drops. You introduce a melody with a build up and you already know whats coming 30 seconds later.
Reading this thread is like someone crushing your hopes and dreams . The OPs post has just said that everything i enjoy about this music sucks. x.x People saying that dubstep is shit mega sad face.
Well this is often used in rock/pop balads where you lead up to the chorus the first time, but skip the chorus, then when you reach the chorus the second time you appreciate the chorus more. This is also used if the verses are short and the chours would feel early in the song.
This is totally cool, the delay makes it sweeter when it comes, however if it never comes, it sucks.
Dude. I know exactly what you are talking about. Thank god breaks/dnb are all about the buildups into some serious throwdowns. I find the anti-climax a lot more prevalent in techno/trance/house.
For the electronic music haters, you obviously know shit all about electronic music. I guarantee I can find every single one of you a song that you like. Give me a fucking break. Suisen, rofl, troool.
This song by Naden features an example of a fantastic drop leading into the climax of the song. This is the best example I could think of doing right. Drops @ 2:30.
On May 09 2011 18:00 fineshed wrote: You're a bit vague with this argument -- what should a proper climax sound like? Give an example; don't give me a bunch of songs and say they're all lacking in an arbritrary element. Is it quantifiable? I'm gonna need some more specifics on what this crescendo is, because I have a mental image of the banal cliche used in older electronic music where the drums would double in speed every two measures until it reached some ridiculous speed a la Sandstorn.
Like what a lot of other users have probably already pointed out, progressive music doesn't focus on resolving an element fully, but rather progressing from aspect to aspect -- almost like a seamless transition; nothing like the jarring machine-like resolutions in old dance music.
I never really heard anything like that first song before... in dubstep yes but well thats kinnda different :p
That trance song made me rofl to have an example here
The song builds up to 3:28 where the kicks are removed and the vocals come in (fully, there are traces of the vocals earlier)
4:00 epic bit *-* getting hype
4:30 main melody comes back in
4:58 the kicks (hmm not kicks but I don't quite know what to call it ) come in and it builds up some more
5:24 more hype!
5:37 MOAR!
5:48 Kicks
5:51 DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO
From what I have read I feel like you are looking for something that puts an emphasis on bass and doesn't sacrifice other parts of the song. If you have never heard of Pretty Lights he is a DJ you should take the time to check out. Most of his music is a fusion of electronic/jazz/pop and some dubstep-like bass that never detracts from a song the way you feel Doctor P's song does, but actually adds to it. He does a great job building up songs, breaking them down, and building them back up again.
This is probably his most well known song (although his music now is generally more of the dubstep-like style I mentioned):
This is the style he is currently moving towards and one of his newest songs:
Another great DJ that actually just became affiliated with Pretty Lights through the PL Artist record label (all music created by PL and the artists on his label is free to DL) is Gramatik, and I would highly recommend his music as well. He builds up his music the same way I mentioned with PL, and his music will dabble in dubstep occasionally like PL but it also doesn't detract from the music.
Here is a quick example that I think will fit your criteria:
Hope that helps
edit: Also does that concert not look totally awesome? I can't wait to see him live in two weeks.
I'm not a fan of the anticlimax with a complete lack of transition and/or coherence. Much prefer when it still make some sense (even if only slight) in the context of the track and not applied to every single track on the album, a la Infected Mushroom - Converting Vegetarians. Maybe that wouldn't qualify as anticlimax then...
But still, it's not really a "problem" for anticlimax haters: as OP stated, it is just the current trend and mostly focused on Dubstep. There's still plenty of non-anticlimax artists around and they'll keep spitting out juicy tracks no matter what the Flavour of the Month is.
And for those climax-lovers favouring the Ambient/Psy side of electronic music, a little treat:
I believe I can sum up my opinions on 'bad genre fusion and anti-climatic music' with this.
Maybe you are just listening to the wrong music, or are looking for the wrong thing from the music. If you want really climatic electronic music try dutch hardstyle or 90's happy hardcore - they have extensively varied melodies with climaxes interspersed throughout. Dubstep isn't always supposed to be about hitting you big climaxes. The melodic style of the song I put here shows just how well it can be done, without a huge climax.
A good example of hardstyle the climax is 'reversed' in that heavy bass builds up to a melodic explosion mid-way through the song. This is the standard of most hardstyle.
On May 09 2011 17:10 DNB wrote: Hello all electronic music listeners on TL,
During the last years, I've been steadily listening to current trends in various different electronic genres and I've noticed a certain shift in many of them, what I like to call the anticlimax.
An anticlimax is a part of the song which is preceded by a nice fill, a progressive 'rise' in the song which is made to get people ready for the climax. But instead of the climax, we get to hear this huge anticlimax which then leads to the rise some time after, facing another anticlimax. After the tune ends I'm left with this "Okay, that was nice but didn't reach the full potential"-feeling.
I've really noticed this mostly in dubstep and trance songs during the last years, and here are a few examples:
Notice at 2:45 how it starts to build up (read this while you listen) - The melody starts to arise from the cutoff and everything is feeling great and you're waiting for the big climax. I could imagine myself at a big trance event, everyone holding their hands up in the air, waiting for the climax to happen
3:42 "I'm getting ready! Let's go! This is the best part before the climax, oh yeaaaaaaaaaah"
4:09 Uh.... "Wait, what? What is this? Uhm, okay..."
You get the idea.
The next one is another known dubstep tune, and I should not probably blame dubstep for it's anticlimaxes because they have been there for a long time and are now an integral part of the genre - But man, I can't sometimes NOT be disappointed:
0:01 - "Oh man, this melody is sick, I love it! I would like to hear a whole dubstep song based on this melody!"
0:13 - "Old school jungle style! This is nuts, I'm waiting for the main part with a genius fusion of this oldskool melody and dubstep rhythm!
0:27 - "HHHHHHNNNNNGGGGGGGGG Okay that's it I'll put it on mute."
I'm sorry if anyone is offended by this but the above truly describes how I feel, I feel like a lot of potential wasted from omitting such original and unique melodies, and that's why I'm making a thread for it. I'm curious to know if anyone else has noticed this trend and how they feel about it.
The first song is just that artists style of music, I guess hes playing on the fact that you think a drop is coming and doesn't. I guess its just not your cup of tea, and that's completely fine there are plenty of other artists in the world, there's no reason to say something is fundamentally wrong with his music.
The second is still a drop, its just not the sort of drop you like i guess. there is no "anticlimax" there, its just a climax into a genre you don;t like to listen to. Others hear a good drop, I guess you just hear a shitty drop, but a drop nonetheless.
I think the OP just needs to understand that some people use the "anticlimax" to switch up their songs or add flair or whatever you want to call it. If its something you don't enjoy that's fine but to say that its fundamentally wrong is just ignorant.
EPT
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) come in and it builds up some more
