During the last years, I've been steadily listening to current trends in various different electronic genres and I've noticed a certain shift in many of them, what I like to call the anticlimax.
An anticlimax is a part of the song which is preceded by a nice fill, a progressive 'rise' in the song which is made to get people ready for the climax. But instead of the climax, we get to hear this huge anticlimax which then leads to the rise some time after, facing another anticlimax. After the tune ends I'm left with this "Okay, that was nice but didn't reach the full potential"-feeling.
I've really noticed this mostly in dubstep and trance songs during the last years, and here are a few examples:
Notice at 2:45 how it starts to build up (read this while you listen) - The melody starts to arise from the cutoff and everything is feeling great and you're waiting for the big climax. I could imagine myself at a big trance event, everyone holding their hands up in the air, waiting for the climax to happen
3:42 "I'm getting ready! Let's go! This is the best part before the climax, oh yeaaaaaaaaaah"
4:09 Uh.... "Wait, what? What is this? Uhm, okay..."
You get the idea.
The next one is another known dubstep tune, and I should not probably blame dubstep for it's anticlimaxes because they have been there for a long time and are now an integral part of the genre - But man, I can't sometimes NOT be disappointed:
0:01 - "Oh man, this melody is sick, I love it! I would like to hear a whole dubstep song based on this melody!"
0:13 - "Old school jungle style! This is nuts, I'm waiting for the main part with a genius fusion of this oldskool melody and dubstep rhythm!
0:27 - "HHHHHHNNNNNGGGGGGGGG Okay that's it I'll put it on mute."
I'm sorry if anyone is offended by this but the above truly describes how I feel, I feel like a lot of potential wasted from omitting such original and unique melodies, and that's why I'm making a thread for it. I'm curious to know if anyone else has noticed this trend and how they feel about it.
I actually burst out laughing at 4:09 on the first tune you posted. Totally agree there.
The second video, I don't know if I'd call it "anticlimax" but more "ruining a great tune with way too hardcore dupstep stuff". It sucks when they don't fuse the themes together and the song is basically polar. Here's another example of it:
Now I still like the song, but wish the drops were less rough. I dunno, it might just mean we don't like dubstep
On May 09 2011 17:18 JediGamer wrote: It is a shame that dubstep and electronic are in the same category.
By electronic music I mean all the sub-genres below it, like trance, house, drum & bass, hardcore and so on. Dubstep IS a sub-genre of electronic music.
Agh I know what you mean, I recently got a huge compilation of some electronic music and the majority of them have a 'build up' which leads to disappointment. Some of them are still ok to listen to, but it just bugs me how often I run into them, I thought I was the only one annoyed by this.
I know exactly what you mean. I listened to your examples and I heard exactly what you heard, a ton of wasted potential. That dubstep song has a really cool, flowing opening and it just goes into the most generic and uninspired dubstep I've ever heard.
The genre for me is very love or hate. I find a lot of it to be very bland, or never reaching it's full potential. For the songs that do catch me, however, there is nothing else like it musically.
On May 09 2011 17:29 TerrorBird wrote: I know exactly what you mean. I listened to your examples and I heard exactly what you heard, a ton of wasted potential. That dubstep song has a really cool, flowing opening and it just goes into the most generic and uninspired dubstep I've ever heard.
The genre for me is very love or hate. I find a lot of it to be very bland, or never reaching it's full potential. For the songs that do catch me, however, there is nothing else like it musically.
That's been bothering me for the longest time! Dubstep has so much potential, and yet there's so much crap being blown up to be something amazing because the bass sounds "dirty." It's even more frustrating when you hear these incredibly well produced buildups, only to fall into the shittiest dubstep bass part you'll ever hear.
Makes me sad.
However, with bands like Pendulum, I think there's two reasons to their popularity. First off, catchy tunes and secondly, they actually pull off the climax. The build up and climax in The Island Part 2 is just out of this world.
On May 09 2011 17:49 Diglett wrote: I thought it's common knowledge that it's an established element of lots of progressive electronic musics. It's been like that for ages.
I only listen to electronic music for like 3 years now ... was it as prevalent before that as it is now? Because i feel it's overused. It certainly has it's applications but more often than not i am, like the OP, left disappointed.
You're a bit vague with this argument -- what should a proper climax sound like? Give an example; don't give me a bunch of songs and say they're all lacking in an arbritrary element. Is it quantifiable? I'm gonna need some more specifics on what this crescendo is, because I have a mental image of the banal cliche used in older electronic music where the drums would double in speed every two measures until it reached some ridiculous speed a la Sandstorn.
Like what a lot of other users have probably already pointed out, progressive music doesn't focus on resolving an element fully, but rather progressing from aspect to aspect -- almost like a seamless transition; nothing like the jarring machine-like resolutions in old dance music.
On May 09 2011 17:56 DERPDERP wrote: This anticlimax is called being not skilled enough to make a good track, just pick the cherries from the top and leave shit tunes to rot P:<
lol yeah....maybe its just the producer/artist/whatever you wanna call it's style
If you want songs with good drops, just listen to songs with good drops....imo you are just analyzing why the songs you listened to are bad. It is not a "symptom" of the electronic music industry.
On May 09 2011 17:49 Diglett wrote: I thought it's common knowledge that it's an established element of lots of progressive electronic musics. It's been like that for ages.
I only listen to electronic music for like 3 years now ... was it as prevalent before that as it is now? Because i feel it's overused. It certainly has it's applications but more often than not i am, like the OP, left disappointed.
TBH, I am a youngun as well and have only been listening to electronic music since late 90s.
This thing is pretty common in progressive, like progressive trance and house. It's like a tease. For example, many ppls know the build up and breakdown of progressive house. You got the generic 32 bar stuff with 8th note chords. Then the cutoff increases, kicks may stop and bam! cutoff super low again.
I know the feeling though. You want richer chords, more melodies more timbres more dis more dat. I feel it too LOL. Just the nature of that style of music. Part of it is the intended effect when played live by a DJ. Part of it is giving that teasy feeling where you expect more but don't get it.
Do note, I don't really have lots of knowledge, I'm just a happy progressive listener with half a year experience signed to a label (did not work outs!!).
i dont seem to understand your point. i think the intuitive response is that not all songs in the genre have to obey the same structure. You say you like big climax's and huge drops with about 10,000 layers of synths and percussion, great. some people don't. I find myself somewhere in the middle, it's great to hear people being experimental with drops and song structures, i think if every song built up and dropped in the same way then it would be a lot lot lot less of a genre. As for dubstep, it just sounds like you're saying that you don't like dubstep. the track you posted is telling of the recent mainstream / brostep developments in dubstep where you have a short intro and then a drop made up of a collection of unconnected extreme mid range noises. dubstep in its original (and true ) form wasn't like that and was much more intelligent, melodical etc.
but yeah, i wouldn't say it was 'wasted potential', that's just how some tracks are. it might be more of a modern change if thats what you were getting at, but thats just because people tend to get more experimental the longer they have to play around with something.
P.S heres one of my fav d&b tunes which completely works up purposely to the 'anti-climax' as you would describe. for me its absolute genius and in no way a dissapointment.
(build up at 0:40ish, drop at 1:30ish)
note: if you don't have a sub it will be nothing more than a snare for you.
To try to explain what a "climax" is, and add a bit of thought to what OP said, I would say that a "climax" in a song is the moment when the listener reaches an emotional liberation after a period of tension built up by an intricacy of different loops of sound. A perfect illustration for me would be "Let's Buy Happiness" from the german artist Boys Noize :
Launch the song and listen as you read the different part of what is written below.
The song starts with a repetitive and satured beat, and as the song goes on more sound loops are added to this beat to form a more and more complex tune.
Then at 2:47 comes the "pre-climatic" phase, where the main beat is cut and only the electronic synthe loops remains, making the listener eager for the return of the beat.
And then at 3:28... Eargasm, the main beat comes back with even more hypnotic and catchy loops.
I love this song for this reason. It is not specifically built around the idea of a climax, but there is such kind of climax in the middle of the song.
On May 09 2011 18:00 fineshed wrote: You're a bit vague with this argument -- what should a proper climax sound like? Give an example; don't give me a bunch of songs and say they're all lacking in an arbritrary element. Is it quantifiable? I'm gonna need some more specifics on what this crescendo is, because I have a mental image of the banal cliche used in older electronic music where the drums would double in speed every two measures until it reached some ridiculous speed a la Sandstorn.
Like what a lot of other users have probably already pointed out, progressive music doesn't focus on resolving an element fully, but rather progressing from aspect to aspect -- almost like a seamless transition; nothing like the jarring machine-like resolutions in old dance music.
Well, for what it's worth, I like buildups that end in climaxes better than buildups that don't resolve.
On May 09 2011 18:16 airbombas wrote: i dont seem to understand your point. i think the intuitive response is that not all songs in the genre have to obey the same structure. You say you like big climax's and huge drops with about 10,000 layers of synths and percussion, great. some people don't.
Even then , you wouldn't want a whole set of those epic anthems with big climaxes and drops , you need plenty of 'filler' tunes as well with less noticable changes if you understand me.
At least half of the electronica out there is garbage (when you listen to them solo and not in a mix).Seriously there is plenty of crap out there.
Drop these bland tunas at a big rave with heaps of kids on E and most will still think they're amazing tunes - they don't offend anybody; they are trying to attract the MOS/part time crowd , they're not meant for avid listeners of the genres.
The song you are describing and giving as examples have one thing in common - they are shit. While i like some dubstep i generally think trance is shit. Alot of people call the new dubstep brostep with the sole purpose of sick drops so the drugged out "bro's" have something to seizure to at rave's etc Even if you are one of those dubstep hipsters dont listen to those tracks, there are plenty of good ones out there.
Im a big trance fan, and the song you linked first is just awful, cant blame the genre for that :o
There are still artist doing incredible breaks - just check out any track by Nitrous Oxide, Suncatcher, Adam Nickey, Sunny Lax, Andy Blueman, Stonevalley, 7 Skies, Juventa etc
Has to be my fav breakdown of the last few years at 3:30 -> 4:00
Its a UK thing, we took all the commercial climax's out of the rave music when we created DnB to make it more serious/darker/moody and dubstep follows this format a lot, but also puts them back in
Honestly its because of bad musicians not because it sounds better so by 95 they were being put back in, as for trance its not my thing but the whole point is that it builds to a big commercial climax so any trance track that doesnt isnt is a building track, dance music shouldnt be listened to as single tracks but as part of a DJ set where building and climaxes can be spread out by the DJ because the trance DJ's that basically play every song with the same formula are ten years behind the best DJs (same for any other genre)
During the last years, I've been steadily listening to current trends in various different electronic genres and I've noticed a certain shift in many of them, what I like to call the anticlimax.
An anticlimax is a part of the song which is preceded by a nice fill, a progressive 'rise' in the song which is made to get people ready for the climax. But instead of the climax, we get to hear this huge anticlimax which then leads to the rise some time after, facing another anticlimax. After the tune ends I'm left with this "Okay, that was nice but didn't reach the full potential"-feeling.
I've really noticed this mostly in dubstep and trance songs during the last years, and here are a few examples:
Notice at 2:45 how it starts to build up (read this while you listen) - The melody starts to arise from the cutoff and everything is feeling great and you're waiting for the big climax. I could imagine myself at a big trance event, everyone holding their hands up in the air, waiting for the climax to happen
3:42 "I'm getting ready! Let's go! This is the best part before the climax, oh yeaaaaaaaaaah"
4:09 Uh.... "Wait, what? What is this? Uhm, okay..."
You get the idea.
The next one is another known dubstep tune, and I should not probably blame dubstep for it's anticlimaxes because they have been there for a long time and are now an integral part of the genre - But man, I can't sometimes NOT be disappointed:
0:01 - "Oh man, this melody is sick, I love it! I would like to hear a whole dubstep song based on this melody!"
0:13 - "Old school jungle style! This is nuts, I'm waiting for the main part with a genius fusion of this oldskool melody and dubstep rhythm!
0:27 - "HHHHHHNNNNNGGGGGGGGG Okay that's it I'll put it on mute.
"
I'm sorry if anyone is offended by this but the above truly describes how I feel, I feel like a lot of potential wasted from omitting such original and unique melodies, and that's why I'm making a thread for it. I'm curious to know if anyone else has noticed this trend and how they feel about it.
D00d, just listen to the original mix, the song follows exactly as it should. What you linked is a random remix, probably the guy who did it wanted to have his personal touch in the song - besides, I can tell you, the energetic line he introduces at 4:09 is really really amazing to hear at a live concert.
Beautiful song btw, thanks ^^
LE---
As for the second song, there's SO many examples of that in both DnB and Dubstep it's not even funny. But there's a huge amount of people who enjoy that "filthy as fuck" sound as well, so just cos we don't like it don't mean we should judge it. I agree tho, it sounds pretty bleh to me :D
I love dubstep but that does not mean I think every dubstep song is good. OP's second song was imo horrible and first song just plain bad in regards of climax.
E: I listen dubstep almost only while playing intensive games.
On May 09 2011 17:10 DNB wrote: The next one is another known dubstep tune, and I should not probably blame dubstep for it's anticlimaxes because they have been there for a long time and are now an integral part of the genre - But man, I can't sometimes NOT be disappointed:
0:01 - "Oh man, this melody is sick, I love it! I would like to hear a whole dubstep song based on this melody!"
0:13 - "Old school jungle style! This is nuts, I'm waiting for the main part with a genius fusion of this oldskool melody and dubstep rhythm!
0:27 - "HHHHHHNNNNNGGGGGGGGG Okay that's it I'll put it on mute."
Well here's the problem, while I agree that the drop on that track is both screechy and boring/repetitive, the parts you like in both track could point to the fact that you just don't like dubstep. There is also a more technical reason why you don't hear, as you say "the main part with a genius fusion of this oldskool melody and dubstep rhythm". This is the sad fact that you generally can't fit a really cool and intricate dubstep bassline under the more traditional higher melody line and backing chords. Its like you've got these two great things: a giant double cheeseburger with extra bacon, and a delicious slice of dank chocolate cake. You're like "fuck yeah these are two delicious foods I'm just gonna put em in a blender and make like the best breakfast evaaar!", but what comes out is just a gooey disgusting mess. There are only so many frequency ranges you can fill up. The whole idea behind some of the dubstep coming out today is to take the bassline (which is normally very repetitive and if isolated would not be fun to listen to), and through as many tricks and effects as you can, spice up the complexity of the timbres and notes to actually take over the melodic portion of the song. I produce electronic in my free time and believe me, I've tried to mix the big burger and the cake, it rarely works. There is a reason that most of the "fusion" tracks you here stick to rapidly switching between dubstep bass elements and more traditional electro/trance/house lines. Feed Me is one of the artist I would say is at the forefront of mixing the two genres, like this electro/dubstep hybrid.
starts building and breaks into dubstep style bass around 1:15 until 2:30, notice how he deliberately avoids layering the detailed bass and the melody line, instead switching between them.
Then he drops the intricate bass entirely and builds from 2:30 to the drop at 3:00 where he really breaks out the melodic chops (backed by a traditional baseline).
I mean, get any kind of simple music software and start making a beat, you add drums, you add a simple chord progression, sounding better now, you add a higher melody line, now its really interesting, you cram in a simple bassline, still cool, you make a counterpoint melody to the first, wow, theres a lot going on! Try adding a 3rd melody. Now you start running into problems. Shit just starts getting messy, you can't hear whats going on. If you manage to fit something in its proabbly going to be either very simple or very infrequent. When you listen to symphonic music, there are like a hundred instruments, but they aren't all playing different things, in fact, most of them behave as if they are one big instrument.
Also maybe you just have shitty subs and can't hear the bass at all.
On May 09 2011 19:05 resilve wrote: Im a big trance fan, and the song you linked first is just awful, cant blame the genre for that :o
There are still artist doing incredible breaks - just check out any track by Nitrous Oxide, Suncatcher, Adam Nickey, Sunny Lax, Andy Blueman, Stonevalley, 7 Skies, Juventa etc
Has to be my fav breakdown of the last few years at 3:30 -> 4:00
Lol i wouldn't even have picked that as a breakdown , then again i don't listen to hardly any trance. This is what i call a breakdown , most folks should know this one
On May 09 2011 19:05 resilve wrote: Im a big trance fan, and the song you linked first is just awful, cant blame the genre for that :o
There are still artist doing incredible breaks - just check out any track by Nitrous Oxide, Suncatcher, Adam Nickey, Sunny Lax, Andy Blueman, Stonevalley, 7 Skies, Juventa etc
I know what you mean, it seems like this is a common thing in dubstep, you get to a part where you just think to yourself "holy shit, he's gonna tear the shit out of this track now, OH MY GOD HERE IT IS!!!!!!!!!!" and then nothing... This is the reason why i can't seem to get into dubstep, it's like they are purposely trying to make you disappointed.
On May 09 2011 19:05 resilve wrote: Im a big trance fan, and the song you linked first is just awful, cant blame the genre for that :o
There are still artist doing incredible breaks - just check out any track by Nitrous Oxide, Suncatcher, Adam Nickey, Sunny Lax, Andy Blueman, Stonevalley, 7 Skies, Juventa etc
Good thing you brought this up. I myself have been listening to crazy trance tunes lately and have noticed this in some songs. However... drops like these are what I love and are the example of what the anticlimax should turn into ;D
On May 09 2011 19:05 resilve wrote: Im a big trance fan, and the song you linked first is just awful, cant blame the genre for that :o
There are still artist doing incredible breaks - just check out any track by Nitrous Oxide, Suncatcher, Adam Nickey, Sunny Lax, Andy Blueman, Stonevalley, 7 Skies, Juventa etc
On May 09 2011 17:18 JediGamer wrote: It is a shame that dubstep and electronic are in the same category.
But there is almost no difference between them audible to anyone who listens to other forms of music, and dubstep is a form of electronic music.
wut...
No difference between dubstep and what? As you said, dubstep IS electronic music. Between genres like trance and dnb? I'm pretty sure even somone with no music experience at all can telll the difference between 70bpm and 150.
People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
Plenty of producers go to music school to learn basic music theory , i went to music school and a large part of the course was electronic music production.Other areas included recording a live band with protools , mixing down with both analogue and digital equipment and yes , music theory.
Plenty of them play piano , thats why they hook up a midi keyboard so they can play notes in real time instead of drawing them into the program.
I just thought I'd highlight a song that does not disappointed in this area. It builds up to (or more transitions in to) the super epic end which is climactic in itself. Then it drops, then it builds again, even higher than the first time. And now you are sitting there, blown away that something like this is even possible. And they do it again. I recommend more than I recommend anything.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
Making enormous sweeping statements about every single person who produces electronic just makes you look like an uneducated person as well.
Add to that the fact that your assertions are completely and demonstrably false. A huge proportion of electronic artists have musical education and training, and probably even more are capable of playing traditional instruments. Do you even know how electronic music is produced? Notation is almost always entered using a peripheral keyboard (ie. a piano).
Don't care about chords and harmony? What? How the hell do you think they use chords and harmony without knowing about them? Do you honestly believe artist do not know what chords and harmony are? I PERSONALLY know at least five friends/acquaintances who have extensive classical training who produce and enjoy electronic music while paradoxically being able to play the violin/piano/drums/guitar/mandolin and vocals.
Even our beloved classical is now largely produced with the assistance of electronic mastering, notation, and even downright synthesized on a computer.
please spend 15 minutes educating yourself before you come and spew garbage on the internet.
Not gona get into the debate of genres of music but i agree its quite annoying to be on a night out expecting a drop then to be disapointed after holding your hands up for a while.
On May 09 2011 18:00 fineshed wrote: You're a bit vague with this argument -- what should a proper climax sound like? Give an example; don't give me a bunch of songs and say they're all lacking in an arbritrary element. Is it quantifiable?
It is called build up and release of tension. It can be hard to define. But say a riff is being played as a build up. If it ends up on a 7 (just below an octave, which means 8) tension builds up because it does not sound like the natural end.
Then, if after playing it 7 times, you play the 8 (octave) and continue playing it then you are resolving the built up tension and the whole thing feels different than it would if it was played in isolation.
You can do the same with rhythm. I would google for more if I wanted more
Build up and release of tension. That's what it is.
On May 09 2011 18:00 fineshed wrote: You're a bit vague with this argument -- what should a proper climax sound like? Give an example; don't give me a bunch of songs and say they're all lacking in an arbritrary element. Is it quantifiable?
It is called build up and release of tension. It can be hard to define. But say a riff is being played as a build up. If it ends up on a 7 (just below an octave, which means 8) tension builds up because it does not sound like the natural end.
Then, if after playing it 7 times, you play the 8 (octave) and continue playing it then you are resolving the built up tension and the whole thing feels different than it would if it was played in isolation.
You can do the same with rhythm. I would google for more if I wanted more
Build up and release of tension. That's what it is.
Sure, the tricky part is that you can release tension in two main ways.
1. Catharsis: The way the OP likes, a billiant crescendo and release of emotion.
2. Relaxation: Simply removing the tension.
Both CAN work if used correctly. I would use the example of the Trentemoller track posted earlier as an example of a successful usage of relaxation, building up to 2:10 and then just relaxing back down again. I found it quite satisfying. In my experience relaxation usually works alot better in more chill music.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
This is total BS. Some of the greatest (classical) music ever written was written by people with hardly any formal music education at all. And most of the 'academic' music that's currently made is absolutely horrific and are pretty much scientific knockoffs of things that have been done 20 times before.
Music requires creativity, not formal education, without this creativity any formal education is useless. Having it, and then receiving a formal education helps some, hurts others. Music isn't math and it sure as hell shouldn't be taught like it.
Sure, the tricky part is that you can release tension in two main ways.
1. Catharsis: The way the OP likes, a billiant crescendo and release of emotion.
2. Relaxation: Simply removing the tension.
Well, they are not interchangeable. Say you are having sex for example. Would you like to end because you climaxed or because you were relaxed, no need to climax
Anyway, yes. You are. Many ways to resolve. The song is very good I think, and Trentemøller will be looked at more . But I would disagree that there is build up of tension. There is certainly a build up, but it doesn't really give me an expectation that something else is coming later. That doesn't mean I disagree with your point though.
I recently found this guy named Ephixa who did a few remixes that I know some will find quite familiar. I thought i would leave it here for those who hate disappointing anti climaxes
to me, the examples from OP are not anticlimaxes, but breakdowns. i actually experience the break in the song as a climax... it's a matter of taste i guess.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
This is total BS. Some of the greatest (classical) music ever written was written by people with hardly any formal music education at all. And most of the 'academic' music that's currently made is absolutely horrific and are pretty much scientific knockoffs of things that have been done 20 times before.
Music requires creativity, not formal education, without this creativity any formal education is useless. Having it, and then receiving a formal education helps some, hurts others. Music isn't math and it sure as hell shouldn't be taught like it.
What you're misunderstanding is that the classic composers that didn't have a "formal education" still understanded the fundamentals of composing and their creativity blows any kind of modern dubstep garbage out of the water.
I'm not just hating on dubstep, the music industry and easily satisfied minds have turned away from what's truly good in music and are just looking for "the next big thing" so to speak.
I think what the artists are going for in the examples is a really contrasting drop. A really hard deep bass and kick only drop after a long teaser break can send a room completely mental (note that a drop which lacks high frequency content can make crowd noise more audible, which is great for that live feel). It can really accentuate the sub and gives you that shift in mood you can use to divert the set.
Also. I think part of what makes it interesting is the absense of melody, the reliance on the bass. Which is why you need a really nice bass to pull it off. An inverse of the big melody formula, rather than an anticlimax.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
This is total BS. Some of the greatest (classical) music ever written was written by people with hardly any formal music education at all. And most of the 'academic' music that's currently made is absolutely horrific and are pretty much scientific knockoffs of things that have been done 20 times before.
Music requires creativity, not formal education, without this creativity any formal education is useless. Having it, and then receiving a formal education helps some, hurts others. Music isn't math and it sure as hell shouldn't be taught like it.
What you're misunderstanding is that the classic composers that didn't have a "formal education" still understanded the fundamentals of composing and their creativity blows any kind of modern dubstep garbage out of the water.
I'm not just hating on dubstep, the music industry and easily satisfied minds have turned away from what's truly good in music and are just looking for "the next big thing" so to speak.
This is bizarre , you are comparing a few well known classical composers who have stood the test of time (IE hundreds of years) to a large number of recent electronic artists.
I can bet you at the time of Bachs peak there were hundreds , thousands of inferior composers who no-one can recall now.You can't just pick the best of the best classical artist and compare them to some middle of the road dubstep producer.Let electonica run for a couple hundred years and you will find composers on the same level as the classical maestros , but as i have said before you will have to wade through a lot of crap (no different to Beethovens or Vivaldis time)
It's rather well known that if a DJ does anti-climaxes, the crowd will go a lot more crazy when he finally does drop what they were expecting.
Also, concerning this:
On May 09 2011 22:41 OPman wrote: What you're misunderstanding is that the classic composers that didn't have a "formal education" still understanded the fundamentals of composing and their creativity blows any kind of modern dubstep garbage out of the water.
I'm not just hating on dubstep, the music industry and easily satisfied minds have turned away from what's truly good in music and are just looking for "the next big thing" so to speak.
While this rings true for all of that bro-step (OMG FILTHY!), there are also lesser known gems like Burial and Zomby, that do have a generic knack for writing music, imo.
On May 09 2011 22:41 OPman wrote:I'm not just hating on dubstep, the music industry and easily satisfied minds have turned away from what's truly good in music and are just looking for "the next big thing" so to speak.
There's no doubt there's an element of this in the dance music scene. I think you're right to be critical of the commercial drives of the industry. There is a lot of pressure on today's artists to ride trends in aesthetics. In the industry a single software preset for a synth can sometimes spawn a whole sub genre of music. But you shouldn't use these ideas for a sweeping generalisation. There is plenty of room for genius and talent within the industry. I'm pretty certain someone like Bach would have totally flipped out apon discovering an Moog or a copy of reaktor and made some damn tasty phat beats
I know what you mean at the 0:27 mark OP>.<. I dislike dubstep very much, at first the song sounds really good..until the dubstep kicks in and turns it into a total mess.
I'm not hating on people who listen to dubstep but man it's a total turn off. Just my opinion.
i seriously lol'd at both videos while reading the captions :p I guess if you listen to good ol dubstep and trance, you'll have to deal with some annoying elements, just like how we have to deal with all sorts of crap in regular pop music.
This type of music is meant to be danced to; are you complaining because you think the music 'could be better' or because you aren't getting what you expect and therefore can't dance to it the way you want? Maybe the people making the music are striving for a bit more complexity. I'm not familiar with these genres of music, if you don't mind me using an analogy it's like you're hoping to hear regular beats (pop music) and you are getting alternative instead and you're wondering what's going on.
I tried listening to every youtube clip in this thread but I don't feel anything listening to this music, I don't experience anything and it just seems like a bunch of blips and swooshy noises, in my view disappointing. Edit: maybe it's better with drugs?
both those songs were too generic for me to get any awesome feeling. though im not a fan of that genre. there is lots of anticlimax or whatever in any genre though to be honest.
On May 09 2011 17:18 JediGamer wrote: It is a shame that dubstep and electronic are in the same category.
Seriously Dubstep is so annoying >.<
My problem is the fact that it sorta loses itself in its own genre definition and there's not a lot of re-imagining going on. They could tap into some other genres like power noise or aggro or even pull it back a little more into melodic/ambient and waft some fresh vapors into the whole thing.
As it is now I consider Dubstep to be to Techno what Country/Western is to Rock.
Actually I find it refreshing to have a certain amount of music drastically opposing any kind of "climax-anticlimax" structures. For example I find Burial and Hudson Mohawke to have some of the coolest structural concepts.
By the way even when many people don't even recognize it as Dubstep these days, Burials first album "Burial" was recognized as the first true Dubstep album by many critics and listeners! It kinda shows how dubstep without climaxes work, and this might actually be considered the original form of dubstep.
Very much opposed to that, Hardstyle on the other hand always has a climax, since it basically lives off climaxes.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
This is total BS. Some of the greatest (classical) music ever written was written by people with hardly any formal music education at all. And most of the 'academic' music that's currently made is absolutely horrific and are pretty much scientific knockoffs of things that have been done 20 times before.
Music requires creativity, not formal education, without this creativity any formal education is useless. Having it, and then receiving a formal education helps some, hurts others. Music isn't math and it sure as hell shouldn't be taught like it.
What you're misunderstanding is that the classic composers that didn't have a "formal education" still understanded the fundamentals of composing and their creativity blows any kind of modern dubstep garbage out of the water.
I'm not just hating on dubstep, the music industry and easily satisfied minds have turned away from what's truly good in music and are just looking for "the next big thing" so to speak.
Well you have to look at what dubstep did to itself. By being defined in that genre any of the creativity that the person making it becomes limited within that genre. This is why I hate specific genres and subgenres of music. It severely restricts artists creativity. It happens very often in metal and popular country. It's actually really bad in metal.
Check out Morbid Angel. They're credited with being one of the catalysts for American death metal. If you ask them what their style is they say "oh we're just a regular metal band, that's all. We play what the fuck we want to as long as it's heavy and brutal." Look at discography reviews and you have fans who love the first album but hate the rest because they didn't make five copies of that first album. Like dude, if you want to listen to a band that never changes their sound and can't ever top their hit album within those limits, listen to Slayer.
An easier example is Metallica. They they put out Fade to Black on Ride the Lightning and fans are "uh, what is this girly shit we can't like this it! But the rest of the album slays so that's ok...forgiven." Then Black Album comes out? They're done. Alienated the fans who wanted to restrict what would be acceptable for them to play. But in their case they went where there would be more fans. Anyways.
This is happening right now in dubstep albeit in a different almost opposite way. The pressure to make dubstep a specific way so that it is a hit with fans is so great that rarely are people experimenting with it anymore. You have old dubstep fans who have been into it for the last ten years. Then the last 3 when it got popular all the dubstep changed into one specific sound and rarely goes outside those borders. Boring, and that's why it generates hate.
Hahah, this is exactly the kind of thing that turned me off of electronic music and pushed me into metal. Too few video games do it, too. Music in video games seems to have become a minor sidenote in the last decade, where there just doesn't seem to be as much effort into using music to make the experience more amazing.
Sorry to break it to you OP but a lot of the people who tend to make electronica these days are not ACTUAL musicians. It becomes evident that, even when no instruments are required, they don't really know how to compose a song at the end of the say. : /
On May 10 2011 03:03 Phayze wrote: Oh god now I know how my girlfriend feels...
Ba-dum-pich!
I haven't really heard many songs with some anticlimax, but instead I have parts in songs that really ruin it for me and just makes me wonder what happened.
Totally awesome at 1:45 and forth. 2:12, here it comes, hold on! 2:19, what is this I don't even... That small, bright melody that comes in just kills it for me. It always make me shake my head in disappointment. Sweet song otherwise!
Haha yeah, I do indeed do what you mean. Have listened to most kinds of trance for 13 years and the anticlimax parts annoys me to death, you have an awesome buildup and are just waiting for it... then it dies. I hate it so bad and I can not for the love of god understand why people like it, I also find the same problem with most Dubstep and that song is not a bad example =)
Just wanna say that you are on the right track, I can point loads of songs and artists that has this problem and one who comes to mind is actually Tiesto, he has a few song which are not like that but so many of his productions just dies after the most awesome build up and not only do I hate it I find it really sad.
Edit: Why not post a track while I'm at it, not the best example but a fun one, first 3 minutes you have the most amazing build up then, gone.
Edit2: Here is how it should be with my all time favorite track, leave you at the ultimate climax 2:19, you have a long amazing build up at 3:15 it just explodes.
Wonderful buildup, and then he descends into the abyss that is known as dubstep. Deadmau5 should leave the dubstep to Skillrex.
On Daft Punk, go listen to their Alive 2007 album. They definitely know how to make climaxes.
Epicness all around. Daft Punk just doesn't do it on every track, which would make things incredibly boring. I like the fact that their music isn't always the same.
I'll also give two examples that are in my opinion bad or good climaxes.
I can deal with anticlimaxes in music. Climax is cliche. I think part of it is the abruptness and lack or harmonious transition or even similarity in theme which is present in a lot of dubstep. Some songs are just bad, and just because they sample another good song and string some filthy drops into it, it doesn't mean it's going to turn out as good as one might imagine.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
This is total BS. Some of the greatest (classical) music ever written was written by people with hardly any formal music education at all. And most of the 'academic' music that's currently made is absolutely horrific and are pretty much scientific knockoffs of things that have been done 20 times before.
Music requires creativity, not formal education, without this creativity any formal education is useless. Having it, and then receiving a formal education helps some, hurts others. Music isn't math and it sure as hell shouldn't be taught like it.
What you're misunderstanding is that the classic composers that didn't have a "formal education" still understanded the fundamentals of composing and their creativity blows any kind of modern dubstep garbage out of the water.
I'm not just hating on dubstep, the music industry and easily satisfied minds have turned away from what's truly good in music and are just looking for "the next big thing" so to speak.
Well you have to look at what dubstep did to itself. By being defined in that genre any of the creativity that the person making it becomes limited within that genre. This is why I hate specific genres and subgenres of music. It severely restricts artists creativity. It happens very often in metal and popular country. It's actually really bad in metal.
Check out Morbid Angel. They're credited with being one of the catalysts for American death metal. If you ask them what their style is they say "oh we're just a regular metal band, that's all. We play what the fuck we want to as long as it's heavy and brutal." Look at discography reviews and you have fans who love the first album but hate the rest because they didn't make five copies of that first album. Like dude, if you want to listen to a band that never changes their sound and can't ever top their hit album within those limits, listen to Slayer.
An easier example is Metallica. They they put out Fade to Black on Ride the Lightning and fans are "uh, what is this girly shit we can't like this it! But the rest of the album slays so that's ok...forgiven." Then Black Album comes out? They're done. Alienated the fans who wanted to restrict what would be acceptable for them to play. But in their case they went where there would be more fans. Anyways.
This is happening right now in dubstep albeit in a different almost opposite way. The pressure to make dubstep a specific way so that it is a hit with fans is so great that rarely are people experimenting with it anymore. You have old dubstep fans who have been into it for the last ten years. Then the last 3 when it got popular all the dubstep changed into one specific sound and rarely goes outside those borders. Boring, and that's why it generates hate.
Well I can't really speak of the trends in the dubstup scene... I am familiar with metal and your analogies (I prefer old Morbid Angel btw :D). I feel this doesn't really translate well though to where I was going with my arguement.
To put it simply and to avoid rampling on for 5 pages which I so desperately want to, I think most people just don't really enjoy music. People like flailing their bodies in a mosh pit and grinding on slutty women in clubs to music that sounds like a clown fucking a dishwasher on exctasy.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
This is total BS. Some of the greatest (classical) music ever written was written by people with hardly any formal music education at all. And most of the 'academic' music that's currently made is absolutely horrific and are pretty much scientific knockoffs of things that have been done 20 times before.
Music requires creativity, not formal education, without this creativity any formal education is useless. Having it, and then receiving a formal education helps some, hurts others. Music isn't math and it sure as hell shouldn't be taught like it.
What you're misunderstanding is that the classic composers that didn't have a "formal education" still understanded the fundamentals of composing and their creativity blows any kind of modern dubstep garbage out of the water.
I'm not just hating on dubstep, the music industry and easily satisfied minds have turned away from what's truly good in music and are just looking for "the next big thing" so to speak.
This is bizarre , you are comparing a few well known classical composers who have stood the test of time (IE hundreds of years) to a large number of recent electronic artists.
I can bet you at the time of Bachs peak there were hundreds , thousands of inferior composers who no-one can recall now.You can't just pick the best of the best classical artist and compare them to some middle of the road dubstep producer.Let electonica run for a couple hundred years and you will find composers on the same level as the classical maestros , but as i have said before you will have to wade through a lot of crap (no different to Beethovens or Vivaldis time)
\
Lol sorry but i think by then people would realize thats dubstep can't possible provide anything TRULY worthwhile.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
Holy generalization dude... Wow, just wow...
As a fan of Trance and eletronic music in general, I am deeply offended by these ignorant remarks. I would know better than engage in a debate with trolls like you but I couldn't resist it.
Hope you can eventually open your eyes and ears for a second and realize there are more to music than your narrow current understanding.
On May 09 2011 23:37 ~ava wrote: I tried listening to every youtube clip in this thread but I don't feel anything listening to this music, I don't experience anything and it just seems like a bunch of blips and swooshy noises, in my view disappointing. Edit: maybe it's better with drugs?
That reminds me of myself something like... 16years ago (yes I'm old). Really didn't see what the point of electronic music was, I was actually very sceptical, then I went to a techno club for the first time in my life and my mind got BLOWN. (and no, I didn't take any drugs, never did since that. I must admit many people do though) Really helped that the club was one of the best in the world (Fuse in Brussels) and the guest DJ was a rocking superstar (Dave Clarke) but it was an epiphany and I can remember that day like it was yesterday. I went there and never came back. Ever since that I can't really imagine ever growing tired of that kind of stuff.
A somewhat recent track that had me jumping all around. Pretty short break at the beginning that really gets me in the mood, one with a real build up at the end. Very well done IMO. Works with me at least. :D
Also this. Pretty old school but when I read about building up to climax I couldn't help but think about this track, which is basically 4 minutes intro, 5 minutes build up, 1minute resolution of the build up, the end.
I've noticed this as well. Tt's my opinion that an 'anti-climax' has the potential to enhance a song when used sparingly, but like many new things it's abused obsessively and has become just plain annoying. Trends like auto-tune in pop music, the wobble in dubstep, and minor pentatonic leads in rock all fall into this category in my experience.
Those 2 songs put in the OP are just... bad. Those are the reasons why I'm really picky when listening to any sort of electronic music, especially dubstep. In the dubstep song, it sounds like someone just mashed a bunch of buttons together for the entire song. The beginning was downright awesome though.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
This is total BS. Some of the greatest (classical) music ever written was written by people with hardly any formal music education at all. And most of the 'academic' music that's currently made is absolutely horrific and are pretty much scientific knockoffs of things that have been done 20 times before.
Music requires creativity, not formal education, without this creativity any formal education is useless. Having it, and then receiving a formal education helps some, hurts others. Music isn't math and it sure as hell shouldn't be taught like it.
What you're misunderstanding is that the classic composers that didn't have a "formal education" still understanded the fundamentals of composing and their creativity blows any kind of modern dubstep garbage out of the water.
I'm not just hating on dubstep, the music industry and easily satisfied minds have turned away from what's truly good in music and are just looking for "the next big thing" so to speak.
This is bizarre , you are comparing a few well known classical composers who have stood the test of time (IE hundreds of years) to a large number of recent electronic artists.
I can bet you at the time of Bachs peak there were hundreds , thousands of inferior composers who no-one can recall now.You can't just pick the best of the best classical artist and compare them to some middle of the road dubstep producer.Let electonica run for a couple hundred years and you will find composers on the same level as the classical maestros , but as i have said before you will have to wade through a lot of crap (no different to Beethovens or Vivaldis time)
\
Lol sorry but i think by then people would realize thats dubstep can't possible provide anything TRULY worthwhile.
And neither does classical music. It's fucking music, people. I seriously can't believe this has gone into a thread complaining about what music is today and what it was in the past. Don't like it? Move the fuck on. Like it? Then listen to it.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
This is so ignorant. I can't disagree that most electronic music is terrible (though most genres share the same pitfall) but you have to acknowledge that there is some quality out there. There is in every genre.
Bjork is basically the finest example in my eyes. I hate citing singular tracks as examples seeing as her stuff is designed to be listened to in album format but...
There's other great artists whose music is heavily based on the electronic sound too. You just have to look for them instead of ruling out an entire genre for no good reason.
On topic though: That second song I posted (Pagan Poetry) doubles as a good example of the 'anti-climax', as you call it, being used to create interest.
I totally agree with the OP. I've noticed this a lot too lately. It's really something that gives me a lot of enjoyment out of ANY song really, doesn't even have to be electronic, to have some sort of climax in the song, some part for the song to work towards. Without it, a lot of songs end up feeling aimless and without conclusion.
On May 09 2011 20:49 Suisen wrote: People that create this kind of music just don't know how to write music. This is the result.
People that make electronic music ignore everything that we have learned a about music before them. They live in a word of their own and don't realize the rules of music are universal. The creators of this music aren't interested in what chords are, what harmony is, etc.
One of the main reason is probably because many don't play an instrument and can't improvise anyway. They just copy paste together stuff until they find something that sounds good.
In classical music form is of the utmost important. Every musical element needs to be handled with meticulous care.
Music is both an art and a science. I don't think people in the electronic music world realize either of them. People just lack an academic background.
This is total BS. Some of the greatest (classical) music ever written was written by people with hardly any formal music education at all. And most of the 'academic' music that's currently made is absolutely horrific and are pretty much scientific knockoffs of things that have been done 20 times before.
Music requires creativity, not formal education, without this creativity any formal education is useless. Having it, and then receiving a formal education helps some, hurts others. Music isn't math and it sure as hell shouldn't be taught like it.
What you're misunderstanding is that the classic composers that didn't have a "formal education" still understanded the fundamentals of composing and their creativity blows any kind of modern dubstep garbage out of the water.
I'm not just hating on dubstep, the music industry and easily satisfied minds have turned away from what's truly good in music and are just looking for "the next big thing" so to speak.
This is bizarre , you are comparing a few well known classical composers who have stood the test of time (IE hundreds of years) to a large number of recent electronic artists.
I can bet you at the time of Bachs peak there were hundreds , thousands of inferior composers who no-one can recall now.You can't just pick the best of the best classical artist and compare them to some middle of the road dubstep producer.Let electonica run for a couple hundred years and you will find composers on the same level as the classical maestros , but as i have said before you will have to wade through a lot of crap (no different to Beethovens or Vivaldis time)
\
Lol sorry but i think by then people would realize thats dubstep can't possible provide anything TRULY worthwhile.
And neither does classical music. It's fucking music, people. I seriously can't believe this has gone into a thread complaining about what music is today and what it was in the past. Don't like it? Move the fuck on. Like it? Then listen to it.
It's been like this for ages, it's a matter of taste. I don't like it in most songs but sometimes in the dancefloor at a big party it's like playing with people's emotions. In some cases it can be quite humorous, something not a lot of eletronic music has nowadays. Good example of a 'funny drop':
The first minute and a half introduces for something epic only to give you a simple 4x4 beat.
About dubstep breaks... I like all electronic music genres, but dubstep has to have the most shitty productions. Most of the times it's producers who have been making dubstep for 1 year or so reading tutorials on youtube, but as long as they have the wobble bassline people go crazy... it's quite sad actually, because it takes almost to no skills to make a 'decent' dubstep track. Of course there is really good dubstep, but in the last 10 dubstep parties I've been it was the same sounds being used over and over again. I never got tired of a genre so fast as I did with dubstep, mainly because of those cheap drops. You introduce a melody with a build up and you already know whats coming 30 seconds later.
Reading this thread is like someone crushing your hopes and dreams . The OPs post has just said that everything i enjoy about this music sucks. x.x People saying that dubstep is shit mega sad face.
Well this is often used in rock/pop balads where you lead up to the chorus the first time, but skip the chorus, then when you reach the chorus the second time you appreciate the chorus more. This is also used if the verses are short and the chours would feel early in the song.
This is totally cool, the delay makes it sweeter when it comes, however if it never comes, it sucks.
Dude. I know exactly what you are talking about. Thank god breaks/dnb are all about the buildups into some serious throwdowns. I find the anti-climax a lot more prevalent in techno/trance/house.
For the electronic music haters, you obviously know shit all about electronic music. I guarantee I can find every single one of you a song that you like. Give me a fucking break. Suisen, rofl, troool.
This song by Naden features an example of a fantastic drop leading into the climax of the song. This is the best example I could think of doing right. Drops @ 2:30.
On May 09 2011 18:00 fineshed wrote: You're a bit vague with this argument -- what should a proper climax sound like? Give an example; don't give me a bunch of songs and say they're all lacking in an arbritrary element. Is it quantifiable? I'm gonna need some more specifics on what this crescendo is, because I have a mental image of the banal cliche used in older electronic music where the drums would double in speed every two measures until it reached some ridiculous speed a la Sandstorn.
Like what a lot of other users have probably already pointed out, progressive music doesn't focus on resolving an element fully, but rather progressing from aspect to aspect -- almost like a seamless transition; nothing like the jarring machine-like resolutions in old dance music.
I never really heard anything like that first song before... in dubstep yes but well thats kinnda different :p
That trance song made me rofl to have an example here
The song builds up to 3:28 where the kicks are removed and the vocals come in (fully, there are traces of the vocals earlier)
4:00 epic bit *-* getting hype
4:30 main melody comes back in
4:58 the kicks (hmm not kicks but I don't quite know what to call it ) come in and it builds up some more
5:24 more hype!
5:37 MOAR!
5:48 Kicks
5:51 DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO DO
From what I have read I feel like you are looking for something that puts an emphasis on bass and doesn't sacrifice other parts of the song. If you have never heard of Pretty Lights he is a DJ you should take the time to check out. Most of his music is a fusion of electronic/jazz/pop and some dubstep-like bass that never detracts from a song the way you feel Doctor P's song does, but actually adds to it. He does a great job building up songs, breaking them down, and building them back up again.
This is probably his most well known song (although his music now is generally more of the dubstep-like style I mentioned):
This is the style he is currently moving towards and one of his newest songs:
Another great DJ that actually just became affiliated with Pretty Lights through the PL Artist record label (all music created by PL and the artists on his label is free to DL) is Gramatik, and I would highly recommend his music as well. He builds up his music the same way I mentioned with PL, and his music will dabble in dubstep occasionally like PL but it also doesn't detract from the music.
Here is a quick example that I think will fit your criteria:
Hope that helps
edit: Also does that concert not look totally awesome? I can't wait to see him live in two weeks.
I'm not a fan of the anticlimax with a complete lack of transition and/or coherence. Much prefer when it still make some sense (even if only slight) in the context of the track and not applied to every single track on the album, a la Infected Mushroom - Converting Vegetarians. Maybe that wouldn't qualify as anticlimax then...
But still, it's not really a "problem" for anticlimax haters: as OP stated, it is just the current trend and mostly focused on Dubstep. There's still plenty of non-anticlimax artists around and they'll keep spitting out juicy tracks no matter what the Flavour of the Month is.
And for those climax-lovers favouring the Ambient/Psy side of electronic music, a little treat:
I believe I can sum up my opinions on 'bad genre fusion and anti-climatic music' with this.
Maybe you are just listening to the wrong music, or are looking for the wrong thing from the music. If you want really climatic electronic music try dutch hardstyle or 90's happy hardcore - they have extensively varied melodies with climaxes interspersed throughout. Dubstep isn't always supposed to be about hitting you big climaxes. The melodic style of the song I put here shows just how well it can be done, without a huge climax.
A good example of hardstyle the climax is 'reversed' in that heavy bass builds up to a melodic explosion mid-way through the song. This is the standard of most hardstyle.
On May 09 2011 17:10 DNB wrote: Hello all electronic music listeners on TL,
During the last years, I've been steadily listening to current trends in various different electronic genres and I've noticed a certain shift in many of them, what I like to call the anticlimax.
An anticlimax is a part of the song which is preceded by a nice fill, a progressive 'rise' in the song which is made to get people ready for the climax. But instead of the climax, we get to hear this huge anticlimax which then leads to the rise some time after, facing another anticlimax. After the tune ends I'm left with this "Okay, that was nice but didn't reach the full potential"-feeling.
I've really noticed this mostly in dubstep and trance songs during the last years, and here are a few examples:
Notice at 2:45 how it starts to build up (read this while you listen) - The melody starts to arise from the cutoff and everything is feeling great and you're waiting for the big climax. I could imagine myself at a big trance event, everyone holding their hands up in the air, waiting for the climax to happen
3:42 "I'm getting ready! Let's go! This is the best part before the climax, oh yeaaaaaaaaaah"
4:09 Uh.... "Wait, what? What is this? Uhm, okay..."
You get the idea.
The next one is another known dubstep tune, and I should not probably blame dubstep for it's anticlimaxes because they have been there for a long time and are now an integral part of the genre - But man, I can't sometimes NOT be disappointed:
0:01 - "Oh man, this melody is sick, I love it! I would like to hear a whole dubstep song based on this melody!"
0:13 - "Old school jungle style! This is nuts, I'm waiting for the main part with a genius fusion of this oldskool melody and dubstep rhythm!
0:27 - "HHHHHHNNNNNGGGGGGGGG Okay that's it I'll put it on mute."
I'm sorry if anyone is offended by this but the above truly describes how I feel, I feel like a lot of potential wasted from omitting such original and unique melodies, and that's why I'm making a thread for it. I'm curious to know if anyone else has noticed this trend and how they feel about it.
The first song is just that artists style of music, I guess hes playing on the fact that you think a drop is coming and doesn't. I guess its just not your cup of tea, and that's completely fine there are plenty of other artists in the world, there's no reason to say something is fundamentally wrong with his music.
The second is still a drop, its just not the sort of drop you like i guess. there is no "anticlimax" there, its just a climax into a genre you don;t like to listen to. Others hear a good drop, I guess you just hear a shitty drop, but a drop nonetheless.
I think the OP just needs to understand that some people use the "anticlimax" to switch up their songs or add flair or whatever you want to call it. If its something you don't enjoy that's fine but to say that its fundamentally wrong is just ignorant.
Its only a disappointment if you're expecting a climax. Thats what I tell my gf anyway.
BAMMMMMMM. I was thinking of puns for like a good half hour man. I think I nailed it. You think I nailed it? I've got others if you dont think I nailed it. but I nailed it.
But yeh, I think it mostly promising one thing and delivering another. In the first you're expecting a drop and a continuation of that melody/theme/whatever and he is all like "nah m8, taking this song other places now". In the second its similar, except it complete skips to another genre. I like dubstep, but I don't like this habit of chopping up samples without any real attempt to mix it all together, or err, dub it I suppose. If you just cut straight from one style to another thats not really a dubbing, thats a track change honey. Itunes does that.
not every song should be a banger. it is important for the set as a whole to build tension. the best djs will take you on a ride, which means not blowing your load every 5 minutes.
On July 04 2011 14:00 esla_sol wrote: not every song should be a banger. it is important for the set as a whole to build tension. the best djs will take you on a ride, which means not blowing your load every 5 minutes.
If the point of that particular track is not to be a banger, why put the buildup there in the first place? It's like if you're doing a monologue, and you want it to be a serious affair - then you put in a setup for a punchline. And you don't make the punchline.
Its called the bridge not an anti climax. It preceeds to chorus. You should probably listen to a live or studio mix, not individual songs. The structure of electronic music we have, which you described, has never ever been about individual songs, as forgotten by kids on youtube that just want to hear that one anthem on repeat. In amix, such 'anti-climaxes' deliberately give you space to layer a tune on. - check my soundcloud, theres some 3 deck mixes on there I did, in which you'll never hear a single bridge on its own: www.soundcloud.com/drop271
Secondly, you should probably go hear music at a club, its much less boring with actual bass
anyway, my 2cents, from 12 years of djing anyway...
Its called the bridge not an anti climax. It preceeds to chorus. You should probably listen to a live or studio mix, not individual songs. The structure of electronic music we have, which you described, has never ever been about individual songs, as forgotten by kids on youtube that just want to hear that one anthem on repeat. In amix, such 'anti-climaxes' deliberately give you space to layer a tune on. - check my soundcloud, theres some 3 deck mixes on there I did, in which you'll never hear a single bridge on its own: www.soundcloud.com/drop271
Secondly, you should probably go hear music at a club, its much less boring with actual bass
anyway, my 2cents, from 12 years of djing anyway...
i listen to almost nothing but live music (not all of it 'electronic' but a good amount) and i think we are talking about two different things
EPT
E: really eargasm worthy DnB. I personally hate Dubstep though
