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A Simple Math Problem? - Page 79

Forum Index > General Forum
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gondolin
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
France332 Posts
April 08 2011 17:58 GMT
#1561
On April 08 2011 05:45 MasterOfChaos wrote:
If there were a multiplication sign in between, then it'd be unambiguously 288. I'd say if the multiplication sign is omitted then multiplication binds stronger than division. So 1/2(x+1) is the same as 1/(2(x+1)) and not (1/2)*(x+1). Just like 1/2x is 1/(2x) and not (1/2)*x.

But that's just a matter of convention. You just define stuff as you need, and as long as it's consistent it doesn't matter. Arguing about conventions is utterly stupid.


I perfectly agree with this quote (even if I am late).
1/2*x is clearly x/2
1/2x is technically x/2 too, but I don't know any mathematician who would interpret it as x/2 rather than 1/(2x) (and I am quite sure I have papers in good mathematical journals where I use 1/2x rather than 1/(2x)).
quiggy
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada58 Posts
April 08 2011 18:00 GMT
#1562
On April 09 2011 02:58 shabinka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 02:52 quiggy wrote:
(48/1)(1/2)(9+3)=288

Using the factor unit method, which removes the "which comes first" division vs multiplication of bedmas it is fairly easy to see that 50% of TL users can't do math.

Because its so simple to tell that the (9+3) is in the numerator... ok. Genius.


48/2(9+3)

((48/2)(9))+((48/2)(3))

216+72

288

Can we get out of basic algebra.

I can do this all day dude. The number is clearly 288
andrewwiggin
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia435 Posts
April 08 2011 18:00 GMT
#1563
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=133417023

Read the first post. It explains WHY 288 is right much better than I can be bothered to right now....
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
April 08 2011 18:00 GMT
#1564
thank you !!! that is exactly what i thought.
spinfuser may I ask how you interpreted 1/2x?

scorch-
Profile Joined January 2011
United States816 Posts
April 08 2011 18:01 GMT
#1565
44% of TL-frequenting starcraft nerds are not math nerds.

The results are almost entirely based on the fact these terms are written in text. Written on a sheet of paper, 1/2x is clearly defined as either (1/2)*x or 1/(2x) to anyone, but written in text it is ambiguous until you apply order of operations conventions. Same with the first question. It's not surprising the questions could be misinterpreted when presented in uncommon formats.
quiggy
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada58 Posts
April 08 2011 18:04 GMT
#1566
48/2(9+3)

let a=(48/2)

a(9+3)

a9+3a

((48/2)(9))+((48/2)(3))

216+72

288

Using substitution to better explain the process. I removed the (48/2) completely and you can see the number is still undeniably 288. This really should be all you need to see. I removed all the "confusing" parts and did algebra...
Jyxz
Profile Joined November 2009
United States117 Posts
April 08 2011 18:04 GMT
#1567
To all the elitists who think its 288....

48/2x

x= (9+3)

solve please.

uh oh.....?
This is Jimmy
inimenesc
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Estonia374 Posts
April 08 2011 18:04 GMT
#1568
48 / 2(9+3)

48/18 + 6 = 8.66667

u mad?
"When game is going full retard, you can only go with it. If you start going against it, if you start going half retard, you´re fucking done for." -n0tail 2014
dbosworld
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States317 Posts
April 08 2011 18:05 GMT
#1569
Sooooo What is this correct answer?
Former CAL-I/CPL CounterStrike Player - Halo1PC CPL/CAL Player
smileyyy
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany1816 Posts
April 08 2011 18:06 GMT
#1570
On April 09 2011 02:52 Ceril wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 02:32 Vorenius wrote:

I'm pretty sure the above is universally acknowledged as the standard order of operations, and that applied to the original equation (without inventing brackets) gives 288. So if you insist that number is not universally true please show another order of operations that's universally acknowledged.


Wikipedia and googling later I find nothing saying that ÷ shouldnt be read as /
Part of what is being argued about here is that some, not all, intepret the ÷ sign as not having the same meaning as /.

Some intepret/been taught ÷ to mean: everything to the left divided by everything to the right (a)/(b) if we had several statments it would read as ((a)/(b)) or ((48)/(2(9+3)).

or written on paper
48
----------------
2(9+3)

where our line --------- is represented by the ÷ sign, 48 is above it, 2(9+3) is below it.
Mathematicians are lazy and will want shorthand for most. I feel that at some point in time before today with computers mathematicians would use ÷ to draw a line in their texts on old monochrome terminals rather then writting: 48/(2(9+3)). Now, for this simple statement no gain is visible. But if we had several

48^2 + ab -2^e ÷ 4(3x+ 2^e) would be read as:

48^2 + ab -2 ^e
------------------------
4(3x + 2 ^e)

and then ofc (48^2 +ab-2^e ÷ 4(3a+2^e)) - (12+ab-a^e÷2b) etc etc so on








pretty good point :D

48:2(9+3) would be 2.
Fruitseller: I feel like it's a good strategy[6Pool]. I had a lot of strategies, but I thought about it a lot and decided to 6 pool. Other people told me to 6 pool too
quiggy
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada58 Posts
April 08 2011 18:07 GMT
#1571
On April 09 2011 03:04 Jyxz wrote:
To all the elitists who think its 288....

48/2x

x= (9+3)

solve please.

uh oh.....?



(48/1)(1/2)(x)

(48/1)(1/2)(9+3)

288
Bellygareth
Profile Joined October 2010
France512 Posts
April 08 2011 18:09 GMT
#1572
On April 09 2011 03:05 dbosworld wrote:
Sooooo What is this correct answer?

the correct answer is that the problem isn't sufficiently well described to answer. The representation of the text in the op is not clear enough. That's why you should use graphics or a specific tool to represent the mathematical equations.
Or something like that

48
-------- = 2
2(9+3)



48(9+3)
--------- = 288
2


The other "problem" is of the exact same nature
richo
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1 Post
April 08 2011 18:13 GMT
#1573
Well I managed to get 264 a good 4 or 5 times till it struck me, 9 + 3 ≠ 11
Oh dear...
dde
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada796 Posts
April 08 2011 18:14 GMT
#1574
u guys need to solve the ones in the bracket and number next to it ... answer is obviously 2
yes
Hikko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1126 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 18:15:14
April 08 2011 18:14 GMT
#1575
On April 09 2011 03:04 Jyxz wrote:
To all the elitists who think its 288....

48/2x

x= (9+3)

solve please.

uh oh.....?


Algebra, and more specifically, Order of Operations. Simplifying 48 / 2 (12) is the same as 48 / 2 * 12.

You are trying to write the problem as (2 (9+3)), but that is not what is given. Writing it out as 2x implies that they are already combined, which they are not.

If you're a lazy bum, you could also plug it into a graphing calculator or a computer program and find that the answer is 288.
♥
VIB
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil3567 Posts
April 08 2011 18:14 GMT
#1576
On April 09 2011 03:09 Bellygareth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 03:05 dbosworld wrote:
Sooooo What is this correct answer?

the correct answer is that the problem isn't sufficiently well described to answer. The representation of the text in the op is not clear enough. That's why you should use graphics or a specific tool to represent the mathematical equations.
Or something like that

48
-------- = 2
2(9+3)



48(9+3)
--------- = 288
2


The other "problem" is of the exact same nature
This guy is right.
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.
quiggy
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada58 Posts
April 08 2011 18:15 GMT
#1577
On April 09 2011 03:09 Bellygareth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 03:05 dbosworld wrote:
Sooooo What is this correct answer?

the correct answer is that the problem isn't sufficiently well described to answer. The representation of the text in the op is not clear enough. That's why you should use graphics or a specific tool to represent the mathematical equations.
Or something like that

48
-------- = 2
2(9+3)



48(9+3)
--------- = 288
2


The other "problem" is of the exact same nature


Nah its pretty clear.
rackdude
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States882 Posts
April 08 2011 18:17 GMT
#1578
On April 09 2011 03:05 dbosworld wrote:
Sooooo What is this correct answer?


Why do people always think there is one correct answer when it comes to math... the moment you start doing math you realize how wrong that is...

There is no correct answer here. There is a correct answer for each interpretation of the input, but since the input is ambiguous in the most proper sense (it would require one more set of brackets), then depending on how you put the missing set of brackets there is a correct answer. A lot of people have an interpretation of the input that reads from left to right and applies the order of operations and thus brackets like (48÷2)(9+3), others (including a lot of calculators) interpret the input when involving division signs as top divided by bottom until there's a space (like in mathematica), and thus they would bracket it as (48)/(2(9+3)). For either of those you will get a correct answer, but for the original question the correct answer is that you have a syntax error and thus are just using shorthand and if people misinterpret what you meant by your shorthand then you should probably change the way you wrote the problem.
Sweet.
iNSiPiD1
Profile Joined May 2010
United States140 Posts
April 08 2011 18:20 GMT
#1579
On April 08 2011 14:43 Schamus wrote:
...I answered two. I'm also a computer engineer, so...

I just re-wrote in my head as 48 / 2(9+3) which is wrong, and I understand that, but thats why I got 2. But at the same time, this is more about being a stickler on notation, than saying that everyone is stupid and can't do math. <--- People will flip out and say without notation math doesn't exist, but I feel like this is more of an elitist "grammar nazi"-esque point, than a truly mathematical one.


Bingo. Been saying this throughout the thread, and I hope people can just realize that this post sums this entire thread up perfectly.

This is NOT MATH!!!!
"What is asserted without reason, may be denied without reason."
Bellygareth
Profile Joined October 2010
France512 Posts
April 08 2011 18:21 GMT
#1580
On April 09 2011 03:17 rackdude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2011 03:05 dbosworld wrote:
Sooooo What is this correct answer?


Why do people always think there is one correct answer when it comes to math... the moment you start doing math you realize how wrong that is...

There is no correct answer here. There is a correct answer for each interpretation of the input, but since the input is ambiguous in the most proper sense (it would require one more set of brackets), then depending on how you put the missing set of brackets there is a correct answer. A lot of people have an interpretation of the input that reads from left to right and applies the order of operations and thus brackets like (48÷2)(9+3), others (including a lot of calculators) interpret the input when involving division signs as top divided by bottom until there's a space (like in mathematica), and thus they would bracket it as (48)/(2(9+3)). For either of those you will get a correct answer, but for the original question the correct answer is that you have a syntax error and thus are just using shorthand and if people misinterpret what you meant by your shorthand then you should probably change the way you wrote the problem.

The correctness of the problem should be a given if you intend to do proper maths. And if the problem is clearly stated, then it has a definite answer as long as you stay in the realm of logics.
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