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Please guys, stay on topic.
This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. |
BEIRUT, Lebanon — After dragging 46 bodies from the streets near his hometown on the Syrian coast, Omar lost count. For four days, he said, he could not eat, remembering the burned body of a baby just a few months old; a fetus ripped from a woman’s belly; a friend lying dead, his dog still standing guard.
Omar survived what residents, antigovernment activists and human rights monitors are calling one of the darkest recent episodes in the Syrian war, a massacre in government-held Tartus Province that has inflamed sectarian divisions, revealed new depths of depravity and made the prospect of stitching the country back together appear increasingly difficult.
That mass killing this month was one in a series of recent sectarian-tinged attacks that Syrians on both sides have seized on to demonize each other. Government and rebel fighters have filmed themselves committing atrocities for the world to see.
Images of the killings in and around Baniyas have transfixed Syrians. In one video that residents say shows victims in Ras al-Nabeh, the bodies of at least seven children and several adults lie tangled and bloody on a rain-soaked street. A baby girl, naked from the waist down, stares skyward, tiny hands balled into fists. Her round face is unblemished, but her belly is darkened and her legs and feet are charred into black cinders.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/world/middleeast/grisly-killings-in-syrian-towns-dim-hopes-for-peace-talks.html
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Which will make the anti-government/assad group bay for blood even more.
The government needs to decide how bad they want to get punished/screwed over. Because I honestly doubt this is a fight that they can win. They pretty much lost the peoples support and when things like this are done more people will desert and fight against them.
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It's sectarian, each side uses the other side wrongdoings as propaganda and both see what is happening as justified/self-defense/necessary. I think at this point you're way past pro/against government, this is rapidly becoming much more like what happened in Bosnia and Iraq.
Anyhow,
Israel Hints at New Strikes, Warning Syria Not to Retaliate
WASHINGTON – A senior Israeli official signaled on Wednesday that Israel was considering further military strikes on Syria to stop the transfer of advanced weapons to Islamic militants, and he warned the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, that his government would face crippling consequences if it retaliated against Israel.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/16/world/middleeast/israeli-official-signals-possibility-of-more-syria-strikes.html
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On May 15 2013 19:27 Steveling wrote:
Turkish military air force just fired 700 alewite pilots.
Invasion is imminent.
If you're ashamed to post your sources maybe you should stop posting stupid conspiracy theories. Most of your posts in these threads are completely unsubstantiated claims that you refuse to source because...
On May 10 2013 04:16 Steveling wrote:
If by "legit source" you mean western media I'll have to disappoint you.
You can google it though and decide for yourself if it's fabricated or not.
Even when I google your claims nothing comes up. Although I'm sure it's just the Illuminati censoring my google searches and news feeds.
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On May 15 2013 18:17 phANT1m wrote:
Actually I don't think so. The christians as long as they were not part of the atrocities that the Assad regime perpetrated should be fine. Yes, there is the chance of the al-nusrah going around and doing stuff but I doubt it.
The alawite sect on the other hand will most likely face a genocide of sorts. Since they are essentially represented by the government and also their views conflict totally with the majority of muslims they will face a lot of heat.
The christians can still get out because Islaam does have rules regarding with letting non-muslims live in muslims lands (that is if al-nusrah or other groups want to form a khilafat). The alawites are screwed all round and in a way I say they deserve it (personal view).
Also the FSA soldier and the heart is a bit messed up. Never see the video but that is not allowed in Islaam. Either there is some context we are not privy to or I have no idea wth.
You are probably both insane and evil.
The alawites are screwed all round and in a way I say they deserve it (personal view).
I mean wow, you are repulsive.
Yes, there is the chance of the al-nusrah going around and doing stuff but I doubt it.
You do understand that al-nushrah = al qaida? They wont be going around doing anything good, they are evil incarnate. And to see someone mentioning the Khilafat T_T wtf is this.
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US is funny, you dont see every day americans defending al-qaeda.
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On May 16 2013 03:39 Derez wrote:It's sectarian, each side uses the other side wrongdoings as propaganda and both see what is happening as justified/self-defense/necessary. I think at this point you're way past pro/against government, this is rapidly becoming much more like what happened in Bosnia and Iraq. Anyhow, Israel Hints at New Strikes, Warning Syria Not to RetaliateShow nested quote +WASHINGTON – A senior Israeli official signaled on Wednesday that Israel was considering further military strikes on Syria to stop the transfer of advanced weapons to Islamic militants, and he warned the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, that his government would face crippling consequences if it retaliated against Israel. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/16/world/middleeast/israeli-official-signals-possibility-of-more-syria-strikes.html
At least *someone* will finally end this violence. And I'm sure US will be compelled to support Israel because for some reason they are obsessed with supporting them. I'm not sure what it will be like after Israel takes out Bashar Al-Assad, but I think fights between rebel groups won't be as bad as wide-scale atrocities with heavy military equipment.
Now all we have to do is hope that someone decides to send more of those missiles through Syria.
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@imperialfist first off I'm not sick or evil. But rather mentioning things going on.
I mention the khliaafat as that is what most all jihaadist groups (boko haram,al-nusrah,chechnya) want to setup. But if they setup one IF, and it is according to the rulings set out by Islaam then Christians are fine. Islaam tolerates other people practising their religon withing the borders of a muslim area. That's the theory bit, if it is implemented by people in zeal is a whole other story.
Secondly when I mentioned the alawite sect you just accuse me. If you look at facts the government is run by a small group of alawites who have been involved in human rights crimes for who knows how long. I say they will face the brunt of it because they are the face of evil to the laymen. The father whose son was killed by the government, the son who lost is father, the child who was tortured and so many more will look at the people who are in charge and want revenge. If they can't get to assad who do they go for? The unarmed civilian who is an alawite. (Not islaamically correct to attack unarmed civilians but when emotions are hgih people don't think).
Also the government run paramilitary group the Shabiha are made up of alawites who have commited numerous crimes.
By saying that I agree that alawites can be killed (did not say all) you call me sick. But if I say its fine to kill nazis then I'm fine? Both groups are committing heinous crimes.
Also don't think you know what is going on in islaam. The differences between mainstream islaam (most muslims 90percent) and alawites are massive and thinking you know the religious differences is not easy, because it is those differences that make them fight each other.
Also al-nusrah are kind of al-qaeda, connected to al-qaeda but not al-qaeda 100percent. Most of the fighters are not trained by al-qaeda but people who either are local and dont join fsa or foreigners coming in. Yes, they have pledged allegiance so in a way they are part of it but atm people interested in winning a war and not the costs of who helps them win it which is why FSA and al-nusrah fight together.
I would have posted links to back up different things but on phone atm. Instead of just accusing me of stuff research please. If you give me facts and proper answers I can maybe actually change a view point if wrong.
I do not claim to know all information but if you just use emotion do not hope to achieve anything. Give me information so I can understand instead of just quoting me and showing disgust.
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You shouldn't generalize all alawites. Also, the Syrian Christians are much safer under the rule of Assad than if the Rebels (including terrorists) take over. So yeah, I'd rather support a lesser of two 'evils'.
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Not generalising but saying that the Mainstram ones that the public will mostly see are the "evil" ones, The ones that killed and tortured them.
Also if Assad falls the nusra may have an oppurtunity to do something but the FSA and SNC should get to work asap and bring other neighbouriing countries to help out.
Just some thoughts. Not sure how it will work out also im not on the ground in Syria so I cant say what the sentiments are but I can assume what they are from the tons of media I have consumed and reoprts etc.
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Report: Syria prepared to fire missiles at Tel Aviv
Sunday Times says Assad regime puts advanced surface-to-surface Tishreen missiles on standby with orders to hit Tel Aviv should Israel launch another airstrike. Expert: Missiles 'extremely accurate' and can cause 'serious harm'
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4381218,00.html
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From the Times of London, May 18th:
“Better the devil we know than the demons we can only imagine if Syria falls into chaos and the extremists from across the Arab world gain a foothold there,” one senior Israeli intelligence officer was quoted as saying.
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On May 20 2013 00:49 Thor.Rush wrote:
From the Times of London, May 18th:
“Better the devil we know than the demons we can only imagine if Syria falls into chaos and the extremists from across the Arab world gain a foothold there,” one senior Israeli intelligence officer was quoted as saying.
Israelis, some of the most bigoted people on the face on the earth, still with far more logic and reasoning than the US government. Mad respect.
It's awfully ironic that the US govt. is supporting Islamic terrorism, but this is nothing new in our 20th-21st century Mideastern policy. We are simply causing more and more instability, which is the opposite of what we want to have. The problem is some dumb bigwigs in Washington think that supporting Islamic terrorists will yield a submissive regime, because they will be "thankful" to us for supporting them. It hasn't happened anywhere else haha. This is why rational people become engineers and doctors, not politicians :|
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On May 20 2013 04:40 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 00:49 Thor.Rush wrote:
From the Times of London, May 18th:
“Better the devil we know than the demons we can only imagine if Syria falls into chaos and the extremists from across the Arab world gain a foothold there,” one senior Israeli intelligence officer was quoted as saying. Israelis, some of the most bigoted people on the face on the earth, still with far more logic and reasoning than the US government. Mad respect. It's awfully ironic that the US govt. is supporting Islamic terrorism, but this is nothing new in our 20th-21st century Mideastern policy. We are simply causing more and more instability, which is the opposite of what we want to have. The problem is some dumb bigwigs in Washington think that supporting Islamic terrorists will yield a submissive regime, because they will be "thankful" to us for supporting them. It hasn't happened anywhere else haha. This is why rational people become engineers and doctors, not politicians :|
I don't think the US should want stability in the Middle East. Far more advantageous when they're tearing each other to pieces.
The word you're looking for is disciplined, not rational. Engineers and doctors need discipline to be successful, politicians don't.
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Firing missiles at Israel? All bluffs. Assad even said himself that attacking turkey would be illogical. What would he have to gain from striking back against Israel other than being demolished in full-on warfare?
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On May 20 2013 05:11 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 04:40 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On May 20 2013 00:49 Thor.Rush wrote:
From the Times of London, May 18th:
“Better the devil we know than the demons we can only imagine if Syria falls into chaos and the extremists from across the Arab world gain a foothold there,” one senior Israeli intelligence officer was quoted as saying. Israelis, some of the most bigoted people on the face on the earth, still with far more logic and reasoning than the US government. Mad respect. It's awfully ironic that the US govt. is supporting Islamic terrorism, but this is nothing new in our 20th-21st century Mideastern policy. We are simply causing more and more instability, which is the opposite of what we want to have. The problem is some dumb bigwigs in Washington think that supporting Islamic terrorists will yield a submissive regime, because they will be "thankful" to us for supporting them. It hasn't happened anywhere else haha. This is why rational people become engineers and doctors, not politicians :| I don't think the US should want stability in the Middle East. Far more advantageous when they're tearing each other to pieces. The word you're looking for is disciplined, not rational. Engineers and doctors need discipline to be successful, politicians don't.
The whole reason why we've been screwing around in the Mideast for over half a century is to get submissive regimes in power because we want stability. This is why as early as the 1950s we overthrew the Mideast's first actually democratic government in Iran, because Mossadeq was all about political independence. Same goes for plenty of others in the Mideast, even men widely considered by Mideastern stock as being extremely good and fair people like Abdul Karim Kassim. The whole reason why we have any business in the Mideast is that it is an extremely important strategic and economic region for the US (and that's understating it). If it weren't, we'd never have set a single foot in there, neither figuratively nor literally.
The irony is with them "tearing each other to pieces", we are actually losing our power in the Middle East. Losing Egypt to Islamists was one of the greatest failures in American imperial history. We've pretty much lost North Africa, permanently lost the Mideast besides the Gulf Arabs. We're not winning by doing this, we're only losing. Even further ironic that even after the death of the Arab nationalist movement of the 60s-80s, we're losing our grip on things.
Yeah, that's another thing politicians lack, discipline.
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On May 20 2013 00:49 Thor.Rush wrote:
From the Times of London, May 18th:
“Better the devil we know than the demons we can only imagine if Syria falls into chaos and the extremists from across the Arab world gain a foothold there,” one senior Israeli intelligence officer was quoted as saying.
Bibi said that this quote is not representative of the governments stance, In essence both options are bad.
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The whole reason why we've been screwing around in the Mideast for over half a century is to get submissive regimes in power because we want stability. This is why as early as the 1950s we overthrew the Mideast's first actually democratic government in Iran, because Mossadeq was all about political independence. Same goes for plenty of others in the Mideast, even men widely considered by Mideastern stock as being extremely good and fair people like Abdul Karim Kassim. The whole reason why we have any business in the Mideast is that it is an extremely important strategic and economic region for the US (and that's understating it). If it weren't, we'd never have set a single foot in there, neither figuratively nor literally.
Not talking about 50 or 60 years ago, today instability clearly favors American short and long-term interests in the region.
And you know what I don't give two fucks about Mossadegh and his democratically elected government, he wasn't going for independence he was going for aligning himself as a quasi-independent Soviet ally. Kassim the same. Do not care whatsoever that they were prevented from siding themselves with Moscow, we weren't playing the Cold War as a 7-game series or something. Let's also not forget that Kassim was threatening pretty much all of his presidency to invade and annex Kuwait, something Iraqis seem to have a little trouble resisting.
The irony is with them "tearing each other to pieces", we are actually losing our power in the Middle East. Losing Egypt to Islamists was one of the greatest failures in American imperial history. We've pretty much lost North Africa, permanently lost the Mideast besides the Gulf Arabs. We're not winning by doing this, we're only losing. Even further ironic that even after the death of the Arab nationalist movement of the 60s-80s, we're losing our grip on things.
See that's the problem with your thinking. You've forgotten where power flows from according to Chairman Mao. That's the rule the Middle East lives by. We're not losing anything by having Arabs cripple their ability to act in a geopolitically significant way by bleeding themselves. The only real loser so far of the current Arab-on-Arab action is Persian Iran. A far cry from not even 3 years ago when Iran was supposed to be the dominant power in the Middle East. And it's hardly the Gulf States; Jordan, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia are all still firmly in the American camp for very self-interested reasons of their own. And just wait until Iraqi Kurdistan declares independence and asks us to help defend their new country. That will be a fun time. Every day Iraq crumbles more and Syria is already to the point of fighting over the crumbs. Both of Iran's avenues to the rest of the Middle East, especially to Hezbollah, are falling apart for them.
The Arabs have crippled themselves and hamstrung Iran and we're the ones losing. Well, whatever you say.
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I think you're kidding yourself if you think the US is doing this to create more 'submissive' regimes in the region. Egypt isn't more submissive, neither is Tunisia, neither is Libya. Syria is different because it was firmly in the Iranian camp already, but even in Syria there will be no pro-american regime.
Yes, maybe in the short term conflict in Syria serves american interests more than Assad staying in power, but it does so in the long term too. However fragile it is, the only way you're only going to get stable, non-violent governments in the middle east is by allowing the people themselves to take control of the political process. That includes letting the more extreme elements of those societies participate. Continuing to prop up dictators that are already on unstable ground just keeps the status quo we've had the last 60 years intact, and it hasn't been working.
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EPT
