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Please guys, stay on topic. This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. | ||
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lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/611157/Russia-Turkey-jet-plane-shot-down-airspace-Syria-ISIS-Islamic-State https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=russian jet&src=typd https://twitter.com/THE_47th/status/652554547336908800?ref_src=twsrc^tfw + LOOOOOOOOOOL To sum up events in order: http://warmonitor.net/news/2015/09/30/live-updates-russian-airstrikes-in-syria/ | ||
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
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Maenander
Germany4926 Posts
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/09/us-to-axe-5-scheme-train-syrian-rebels-nyt Which goes to show that isolated support for "moderate" rebels seems to be impossible. | ||
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
Other operations by the CIA/allies such as arming rebels with TOWs, etc. seem quite successful. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
There is no such thing as a "moderate" rebel. I would have hoped that people would have learned from the Mujahideen in Afghanistan a few decades ago, but evidently not. On October 10 2015 12:08 heliusx wrote: What? Russia drops a few bombs and suddenly they're the only ones doing anything useful? Never mind the 2000+ sorties carried out by the US and it's allies on Isis? Never mind the US-provided equipment that allowed the conflict to get as far as it did in the first place? | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
On October 11 2015 14:47 LegalLord wrote: I wonder how much coordination there was between Russia and the US on this offensive. I really doubt that Russia would unilaterally choose to start a military offensive, regardless of what the official stance on the issue is. My guess is that the US realized that giving weapons and training to (ISIS by any other name) is a losing proposition and they were willing to let Russia take care of it because it was more diplomatically convenient to have it happen that way. There is no such thing as a "moderate" rebel. I would have hoped that people would have learned from the Mujahideen in Afghanistan a few decades ago, but evidently not. Never mind the US-provided equipment that allowed the conflict to get as far as it did in the first place? so the syrians that were protesting back in 2011 are what ? The saudi's will provide those weapons for them, there are already reports of a substantial delivery of TOW's by the saudi government to the rebels, my guess is that it's just a matter of time until we see some manpads as well. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5277 Posts
syrians protesting in 2011 were insurgents trained by UK and US for a couple years at least. old news, few years back. obvious not all of them but ye, UK and US started the syrian freedom movement. | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
On October 11 2015 20:22 xM(Z wrote: i thought about a pre-deal between Russia and US too because it just makes sense. i couldn't really tell how Iran and Turkey would fit in it though. US probably screwed over Turkey but what did it got over the deal with Iran?. what's the Russian - Turkish position?. syrians protesting in 2011 were insurgents trained by UK and US for a couple years at least. old news, few years back. obvious not all of them but ye, UK and US started the syrian freedom movement. source? we have been here since day 1 when all started, first time i read about this "news". | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On October 11 2015 14:47 LegalLord wrote: I wonder how much coordination there was between Russia and the US on this offensive. I really doubt that Russia would unilaterally choose to start a military offensive, regardless of what the official stance on the issue is. My guess is that the US realized that giving weapons and training to (ISIS by any other name) is a losing proposition and they were willing to let Russia take care of it because it was more diplomatically convenient to have it happen that way. There is no such thing as a "moderate" rebel. I would have hoped that people would have learned from the Mujahideen in Afghanistan a few decades ago, but evidently not. Never mind the US-provided equipment that allowed the conflict to get as far as it did in the first place? This is simply wrong. Most equipment for rebels initially came from SAA. Remember many of them are former SAA soldiers. Later on foreign support was mainly from Saudis, Qatar, Turkey and Iran fo Assad. US played a minor role. The biggest contribution US made to ISIS equipment was weapons for the Iraqi army. But it is kinda difficult to say they should have given them nothing in anticipation terrorists woudl take it from them. | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
The convoy of Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al Baghdadi has been struck by Iraq's air force in western Anbar, the military says. His condition following the attack remains unclear. It comes after Turkish security sources told Reuters that their initial investigation into yesterday's deadly bombings in Ankara had led them to believe IS was responsible. The Iraqi military's statement added: "He was heading to Karabla to attend a meeting with Daesh commanders. "The location of the meeting was also bombed and many of the group's leaders were killed and wounded. "Fate of murderer al-Baghdadi is unknown and he was carried away by a vehicle. His health condition is still unclear." According to Sherine Tadros, it is much more likely to be senior members of Islamic State who were hit, rather than al Baghdadi himself. In Syria, Russia's military has also been targeting Islamic State training camps, ammunition dumps and fighting positions. Moscow officials have claimed 63 airstrikes were performed by its troops over the past 24 hours - destroying a total of 53 sites across four provinces. http://news.sky.com/story/1567567/iraqi-forces-strike-is-leaders-convoy-report | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On October 11 2015 20:11 ImFromPortugal wrote: so the syrians that were protesting back in 2011 are what ? The saudi's will provide those weapons for them, there are already reports of a substantial delivery of TOW's by the saudi government to the rebels, my guess is that it's just a matter of time until we see some manpads as well. The Syrians protesting back in 2011 were citizens genuinely frustrated with a genuinely terrible government. However, like every other conflict that involves highly Muslim populations, that movement was quickly hijacked by Islamic radicals who have their own agenda. Saudis are even better than the US at keeping the peace, what with all the terrorist mercenaries they hire to do their dirty work. On October 11 2015 20:22 xM(Z wrote: i thought about a pre-deal between Russia and US too because it just makes sense. i couldn't really tell how Iran and Turkey would fit in it though. US probably screwed over Turkey but what did it got over the deal with Iran?. what's the Russian - Turkish position?. I think Turkey would be happy if Russia/US shut down the Kurd independence movement for them, so they'd get something out of this. I don't think Iran really wants ISIS either. I'm sure they could work something out here. | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
On October 11 2015 22:47 LegalLord wrote: The Syrians protesting back in 2011 were citizens genuinely frustrated with a genuinely terrible government. However, like every other conflict that involves highly Muslim populations, that movement was quickly hijacked by Islamic radicals who have their own agenda. Saudis are even better than the US at keeping the peace, what with all the terrorist mercenaries they hire to do their dirty work. I think Turkey would be happy if Russia/US shut down the Kurd independence movement for them, so they'd get something out of this. I don't think Iran really wants ISIS either. I'm sure they could work something out here. There have been talks of kurdish - russian cooperation.. i think that more important would be to know how the syrian regime will act in relation to the Kurds, the US is antecipating to that scenario and starting to ramp up its cooperation with the Kurdish factions. | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
Official YPG Spokesperson: "Syrian Democratic Forces” (SDF) has been established by YPG and the ”Syrian Arab Coalition". | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
What exactly does that say? Far as Google Translate goes, it seems to say that the Syrian govt is denouncing the FSA. Which makes the tweet seem rather un-useful. Edit: Ah. But I don't really see what that has to do with the FSA or Russia. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5277 Posts
To undermine Iran, which is predominantly Shiite, the Bush Administration has decided, in effect, to reconfigure its priorities in the Middle East. In Lebanon, the Administration has coöperated with Saudi Arabia’s government, which is Sunni, in clandestine operations that are intended to weaken Hezbollah, the Shiite organization that is backed by Iran. The U.S. has also taken part in clandestine operations aimed at Iran and its ally Syria. A by-product of these activities has been the bolstering of Sunni extremist groups that espouse a militant vision of Islam and are hostile to America and sympathetic to Al Qaeda. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9500503/Britain-and-US-plan-a-Syrian-revolution-from-an-innocuous-office-block-in-Istanbul.html "We are not 'king-making' in Syria. The UK and the US are moving cautiously to help what has been developing within Syria to improve the capabilities of the opposition," said a British consultant overseeing the programme. "What's going to come next? Who is going to control territory across Syria. We want to give civilians the skills to assert leadership." some wikileaks http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=001_1340114356 from bhalla@stratfor.com+ Show Spoiler + Reva Bhalla is a leading global strategic analyst who keeps her pulse on emerging trends across the world. Ms. Bhalla leads Stratfor's team of analysts and plays an integral role in applying a forward-looking, strategic lens to Stratfor's coverage of global events. She is also a prominent speaker, regularly addressing executives and investors at events across the world in a variety of industries, including energy, finance, commercial real estate and agriculture. Ms. Bhalla joined Stratfor in 2004 and has been featured in numerous newspapers and broadcasts, including Bloomberg, National Public Radio, CNN, The Associated Press, National Public Radio, Time Magazine, Al Jazeera English, Fox News, Haaretz, The New York Times, The Hindustan Times, Agencia Estado, Xinhua, Veja and Business Week. Ms. Bhalla has a bachelor's degree in political science from the University of Texas and a master's degree from the Security Studies Program of the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. After a couple hours of talking, they said without saying that SOF teams(presumably from US, UK, France, Jordan, Turkey) are already on the ground focused on recce missions and training opposition forces. One Air Force intel guy (US) said very carefully that there isn't much of a Free Syrian Army to train right now anyway, but all the operations being done now are being done out of 'prudence.' [...] I kept pressing on the question of what these SOF teams would be working toward, and whether this would lead to an eventual air camapign to give a Syrian rebel group cover. They pretty quickly distanced themselves from that idea, saying that the idea 'hypothetically' is to commit guerrilla attacks, assassination campaigns, try to break the back of the Alawite forces, elicit collapse from within. There wouldn't be a need for air cover, and they wouldn't expect these Syrian rebels to be marching in columns anyway. http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/pentagon-confirms-west-gulf-states-and-turkey-created-islamic-state-608321312 with the original DIA doc http://www.judicialwatch.org/document-archive/pgs-287-293-291-jw-v-dod-and-state-14-812-2/ The secret US Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA) document, obtained by Washington DC law firm Judicial Watch, reveals that the emergence of an “Islamic State” across Iraq and Syria was foreseen by the Pentagon, as early as three years ago. According to the internal report, which was distributed throughout the US intelligence community, this was seen as a likely consequence of the West’s efforts to destabilise Bashir al-Assad’s regime in Syria. Despite that, Western governments continued to coordinate financial, military and logistical support to largely Islamist militant rebel groups in Syria, through allies Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Jordan and Turkey, among others. | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
On October 12 2015 12:02 LegalLord wrote: Geez, highlighting a mix of left-aligned and right-aligned text is some form of torture. What exactly does that say? Far as Google Translate goes, it seems to say that the Syrian govt is denouncing the FSA. Which makes the tweet seem rather un-useful. Edit: Ah. But I don't really see what that has to do with the FSA or Russia. Basically the west will now support this new coalition in detriment of the other rebels... at least officially. They already sent tons of weapons to the YPG today and more will come. I think this will affect the conflict considerably because now other moderate groups can join this coalition and be under the protective umbrella of the western powers against russian strikes. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4692 Posts
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xM(Z
Romania5277 Posts
Russia is showing off bombing with precise guided missiles from warships in the Caspian Sea, across Iran, across Iraq and across 90% of Syria to hit targets on the western syrian coast. http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/ships/2015/10/11/caspian-sea-russia-navy-missiles-attack-strike-military-naval-syria-frigate-corvette-lcs-littoral-combat-ship/73671188/ + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/syv3ddW.jpg) | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On October 12 2015 18:29 ImFromPortugal wrote: Basically the west will now support this new coalition in detriment of the other rebels... at least officially. They already sent tons of weapons to the YPG today and more will come. I think this will affect the conflict considerably because now other moderate groups can join this coalition and be under the protective umbrella of the western powers against russian strikes. Not a bad idea, Russians will probably not attack allies of the Kurds. But I dont know how significant the non-Kurdish groups in this alliance are. And Turkey will probably hate this developement as they hate any support for YPG. I wonder if they even allow the groups they support to join this alliance. On October 12 2015 19:14 xM(Z wrote: Russia is showing off bombing with precise guided missiles from warships in the Caspian Sea, across Iran, across Iraq and across 90% of Syria to hit targets on the western syrian coast. http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/ships/2015/10/11/caspian-sea-russia-navy-missiles-attack-strike-military-naval-syria-frigate-corvette-lcs-littoral-combat-ship/73671188/ + Show Spoiler + This strike seems to show that the Russian involvement is more about dick waving and less about Syria. Could also be called a weapons test under real life conditions though. | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
On October 12 2015 19:14 xM(Z wrote: well(imo) China will also go in now. at the very least they'll gain a bargaining chip that they could use later in different matters; they'll also get some training for their troops. Russia is showing off bombing with precise guided missiles from warships in the Caspian Sea, across Iran, across Iraq and across 90% of Syria to hit targets on the western syrian coast. http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/ships/2015/10/11/caspian-sea-russia-navy-missiles-attack-strike-military-naval-syria-frigate-corvette-lcs-littoral-combat-ship/73671188/ + Show Spoiler + some of those missiles landed in Iran. | ||
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