Thread is about the various issues surrounding Japan in the aftermath of the recent earthquake. Don't bring the shit side of the internet to the thread, and post with the realization that this thread is very important, and very real, to your fellow members.
Do not post speculative and unconfirmed news you saw on TV or anywhere else. Generally the more dramatic it sounds the less likely it's true.
On March 17 2011 21:31 Scorch wrote: Tepco says electric power in the plant will be restored tomorrow at the earliest. I hope that will fix any immediate danger and make it possible to handle the situation calmly after that.
Not necessarily. It will make cooling much easier, but it's not a 100% solution.
On March 17 2011 20:50 hugman wrote: If the fire trucks succeed the worst should be over, hopefully
They're also working to restore power lines around the reactor. Hopefully that will be successful too.
That's the big/permanent fix I think. Though I wonder if the water pumps are mechanically damaged or just without power?
Hopefully some of this hysteria will end once they get the power back up. The news of people around the world buying potassium iodide is pretty retarded. Japanese markets are down something like 22% - definitely oversold.
There's also another problem. Even if they succeed with pumping water to end the immediate threat the reactors will still need to be fixed/rebuilt because they were using sea water in them earlier, effectively rendering them useless/breaking them down further.
It's pretty established that they will be permanently shut down, from what I've read.
Well, that's the problem in on itself, isn't it? Japan does seem to suffer from power shortage now and closing down a power plant definitely won't help this. How long does it take to build a new nuclear plant like that?
It takes awhile to build a nuclear power plant, from planning / testing to building.
If all their other plants worked, they'd be 100% fine without the power plant, but it's not just this power plant's production that is the sole cause of their blackouts. You've got problems at other plants plus a massive earthquake / tsunami that almost certainly broke the delivery infrastructure in large places.
The Nikkei's off a little over 10%. It rallied back significantly.
On NHK they said that restored power only will increase the hope to get a control of the situation. So it seems to be something else that also needs to be solved.
On March 17 2011 22:25 Jiddra wrote: Why doesn't they say if the spraying was working as hoped? The news only says that it has happened, not the results.
Not sure they can measure everything in the reactors they would need to know for sure with all the system / power issues they have, plus they don't know how much fuel is currently degrading in the reactors. The chart the other guy posted noted that the pressure sensor in reactor 2 was out of battery power.
He says that it could be like Chernobyl, yet I'm confused because I've heard 1 other reputable source saying a Chernobyl-like disaster is "impossible" because they use water and not graphite to cool the fuel thingies.
He says that it could be like Chernobyl, yet I'm confused because I've heard 1 other reputable source saying a Chernobyl-like disaster is "impossible" because they use water and not graphite to cool the fuel thingies.
He says that it could be like Chernobyl, yet I'm confused because I've heard 1 other reputable source saying a Chernobyl-like disaster is "impossible" because they use water and not graphite to cool the fuel thingies.
It's different. Chernobyl had the sweltering fire for days from the graphite that magnified the situation and was missing a heavy containment vessel that could have kept in some / all of the radiation. So far, all that has come out of these reactors is radioactive steam with nowhere near the radiation that was released during Chernobyl. The main containment vessels have not failed on any of the reactors (the outer containment vessels have, but apparently not the innermost). Also, the USSR covered up the problem and did a poor job of managing health concerns and the food supply for local / regional residents in both the short and the long term, whereas Japan has been proactive in this area.
According to a less reliable Finnish news source, Finnish expert thingy says that the Hydrogen explosions were caused by Zirconium of the fuel rods reacting with the steam from the water used for cooling, but if the water was to vaporize rapidly, the Zirconium might react with the oxygen of the air and that'd cause a chain reaction, or something like that.
He says that it could be like Chernobyl, yet I'm confused because I've heard 1 other reputable source saying a Chernobyl-like disaster is "impossible" because they use water and not graphite to cool the fuel thingies.
Correction: The guy's a PHYSICIAN not a physicist. He just happens to chair some NGO on anti nuclear weapons. Not going to say there's other agendas but clearly not a 'nuclear professor'. Just another academic seeking some spotlight, moving right along.
He says that it could be like Chernobyl, yet I'm confused because I've heard 1 other reputable source saying a Chernobyl-like disaster is "impossible" because they use water and not graphite to cool the fuel thingies.
Correction: The guy's a PHYSICIAN not a physicist. He just happens to chair some NGO on anti nuclear weapons. Not going to say there's other agendas but clearly not a 'nuclear professor'. Just another academic seeking some spotlight, moving right along.
I've seen a surprising amount of news sources quoting anti-nuclear advocates as unbiased, credible experts on the effects of this issue.
ONE lone voice has emerged from the group of heroic workers at Tokyo Electric Power Co (Tepco), which runs the quake-stricken Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, where workers are scrambling to cool the nuclear plant and avoid a meltdown.
Michiko Otsuki - a female worker at Tepco - has written on her blog, speaking up for her 'silent' colleagues who remained behind at the plant.
She had been quoted a little in some overseas English reports but The Straits Times Online tracked and translated her blog to find out her full story when she first posted on popular Japanese social networking site Mixi.
By Thursday however, her post had been taken down, but the entry had already been reproduced by several online blogs and in Japanese language forums.
Ms Otsuki is one of the 800 employees evacuated from the plant on Monday, leaving 50 workers behind to battle the nuclear crisis.
On Tuesday, she addressed the growing criticisms levelled at Tepco.
'People have been flaming Tepco,' she said. 'But the staff of Tepco have refused to flee, and continue to work even at the peril of their own lives. Please stop attacking us.'
Tepco, which powers Japan's capital and largest city Tokyo, is one of the main players in the world of Japanese nuclear power, with a history of safety violations.
Even Prime Minister Naoto Kan, frustrated that an explosion featured in the news had not been reported to the Prime Minister's office, is reported to have burst into an executive meeting at the company and demanded what was going on.
However, Ms Otsuki's blog post gives the world a glimpse of the tireless, faceless crew - now dubbed the Fukushima 50 - who are working on the frontline to stop the nuclear crisis from escalating, risking the effects of radiation. In the most severe cases, radiation can lead to higher chances of developing cancer, or even death.
'As a worker at Tepco and a member of the Fukushima No. 2 reactor team, I was dealing with the crisis at the scene until yesterday (Monday).'
'In the midst of the tsunami alarm (last Friday), at 3am in the night when we couldn't even see where we going, we carried on working to restore the reactors from where we were, right by the sea, with the realisation that this could be certain death,' she said.
'The machine that cools the reactor is just by the ocean, and it was wrecked by the tsunami. Everyone worked desperately to try and restore it. Fighting fatigue and empty stomachs, we dragged ourselves back to work.
'There are many who haven't gotten in touch with their family members, but are facing the present situation and working hard.'
Battling On
'Please remember that. I want this message to reach even just one more person. Everyone at the power plant is battling on, without running away.
'To all the residents (around the plant) who have been alarmed and worried, I am truly, deeply sorry.
'I am writing my name down, knowing I will be abused and hurt because of this. There are people working to protect all of you, even in exchange for their own lives.
'Watching my co-workers putting their lives on the line without a second thought in this situation, I'm proud to be a member of Tepco, and a member of the team behind Fukushima No. 2 reactor.
'I hope to return to the plant and work on the restoration of the reactor.'
But her pleas seem to have gone unheard. The original post has now been taken down and she has instead posted an apology: 'I am very sorry, but I have locked the post as it was being used in a way I had not intended it to be.
'Having seen what's happening on the ground, my message to all of you remains the same. But others have changed the contents of the post and used it for the wrong reasons, like fanning fear amongst others, and I have therefore decided to lock my post.
'I am praying from the bottom of my heart for the safety of your loved ones. I am sorry it (the blog post) has turned out this way.'
Status of Fukushima #1 power station as of 21:30, March 17, 2011 “Operation for filling the pool with water at unit-3”
NHK news reported on the operations conducted today for filling the pool with water at unit-3 as follows:
Water level is low at the spent fuel pools of unit-3. Considering possibility of damage to fuel rods in the pool outside the containment vessel, operation for filling the pool with water were conducted three times.
* 1st operation Japan Self-Defense Forces dropped 4 huge buckets of seawater from helicopters in this morning. Lead plates were installed at the bottom of the helicopters to shield radiation and crew members wore radiation protection suits.
* 2nd operation The National Police Agency tried to pour water from the ground with pumper truck in the evening. However, they were not able to come close because of high radiation and water did not reach the pool.
* 3rd operation Japan Self-Defense Forces poured 30 tons of water from the ground with 5 special pumper trucks from 19:45 to 20:09. Because these trucks are special, they were able to do this operation without getting off the trucks. Effect of this operation is under evaluation.
There seems to be so much more panic in western media than there actually is here in Japan atm, I don't want to downplay the severity of it at all, but some people are being too worried about it. Been talking to some friends up that way (Both Foreign and Japanese) and everyone is calm and good, despite all the embassies having a shit fit and trying to abandon everywhere. Trying to keep up with both western and Japanese news to give me a good cover.
Correction: The guy's a PHYSICIAN not a physicist. He just happens to chair some NGO on anti nuclear weapons. Not going to say there's other agendas but clearly not a 'nuclear professor'. Just another academic seeking some spotlight, moving right along.
Rofl... You expect that when they caption someone speaking with authority on a nuclear plant "Associate Professor Tilman Ruff of Melbourne University" that he'd actually be a physicist.
On March 17 2011 22:25 Jiddra wrote: Why doesn't they say if the spraying was working as hoped? The news only says that it has happened, not the results.
On March 17 2011 21:31 Scorch wrote: Tepco says electric power in the plant will be restored tomorrow at the earliest. I hope that will fix any immediate danger and make it possible to handle the situation calmly after that.
Not necessarily. It will make cooling much easier, but it's not a 100% solution.
On March 17 2011 21:35 Manit0u wrote:
On March 17 2011 21:28 Shikyo wrote:
On March 17 2011 21:25 Manit0u wrote:
On March 17 2011 21:13 Consolidate wrote:
On March 17 2011 21:00 Ryo wrote:
On March 17 2011 20:50 hugman wrote: If the fire trucks succeed the worst should be over, hopefully
They're also working to restore power lines around the reactor. Hopefully that will be successful too.
That's the big/permanent fix I think. Though I wonder if the water pumps are mechanically damaged or just without power?
Hopefully some of this hysteria will end once they get the power back up. The news of people around the world buying potassium iodide is pretty retarded. Japanese markets are down something like 22% - definitely oversold.
There's also another problem. Even if they succeed with pumping water to end the immediate threat the reactors will still need to be fixed/rebuilt because they were using sea water in them earlier, effectively rendering them useless/breaking them down further.
It's pretty established that they will be permanently shut down, from what I've read.
Well, that's the problem in on itself, isn't it? Japan does seem to suffer from power shortage now and closing down a power plant definitely won't help this. How long does it take to build a new nuclear plant like that?
It takes awhile to build a nuclear power plant, from planning / testing to building.
If all their other plants worked, they'd be 100% fine without the power plant, but it's not just this power plant's production that is the sole cause of their blackouts. You've got problems at other plants plus a massive earthquake / tsunami that almost certainly broke the delivery infrastructure in large places.
The Nikkei's off a little over 10%. It rallied back significantly.
On NHK they said that restored power only will increase the hope to get a control of the situation. So it seems to be something else that also needs to be solved.
The Japanese news says that they dont know how much effect it had but even if 100% entered the tank of all the drops it would only fill about 1% of the total ammount. Theyve also "fired" 30 tons of water from the miliatrys firefighting cars but they dont know wether theyve hit properly or where in the plant the water went.
On March 18 2011 01:06 a176 wrote: does anyone have any news about the search and rescue operations or status of the survivors?
What do you mean ? What is known is that its very cold in the areas hit by the tsunami and there is a lot of problem generating heat. 380 000 people are currently in the refugee centers as I understand it. Deathtoll is chaging constantly and there is a lot confusion because they report the numbers in people reported missing and people that are found dead so there is a BIG number of people that arnt counted.
The news are going batshit crazy. Here in Poland they desperately try to cling to the rumour of the Fukushima I being a level 6 event on the INES scale, while every reliable sources (including the guy from the nuclear physics department they invited to the studio and who was giving interviews on behalf of crisis management department or something) claim it to be level 4.
But it's standard for news stations to exaggerate and "look for a hole in the whole" this days. A sad thing indeed.
Edit: Oh, the link to the INES scale I provided contains update on Fukushima I. It seems it did increase to level 6. But the news making it so was before the recent explosions and stuff. I guess they'll be talking about level 7 now, which would put it on equal grounds with Chernobyl.
EPT
