EPTThey just had a panel discussing this. They did not go into details why the helicopter operation did not work (didn't mention it was because of high radiation, might be another reason). They will now use riot police water trucks instead to pump water into the spent fuel tanks of reactor #3 and #4. They did not say they use this to cool the reactor itself on #3.
Crisis in Japan - Page 158
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Thread is about the various issues surrounding Japan in the aftermath of the recent earthquake. Don't bring the shit side of the internet to the thread, and post with the realization that this thread is very important, and very real, to your fellow members. Do not post speculative and unconfirmed news you saw on TV or anywhere else. Generally the more dramatic it sounds the less likely it's true. | ||
zatic
Zurich15345 Posts
They just had a panel discussing this. They did not go into details why the helicopter operation did not work (didn't mention it was because of high radiation, might be another reason). They will now use riot police water trucks instead to pump water into the spent fuel tanks of reactor #3 and #4. They did not say they use this to cool the reactor itself on #3. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On March 16 2011 15:34 IntoTheWow wrote: Let's not forget that they were hit by a 8.9 earthquake. When you design anything as an engineer, you design depending on the parameters of where you are located. Engines running near the cost need a better anti corrosion solution that the ones in service in a dry weather. Likewise, this power plant was designed to withstand a 7.9 earthquake hit (from what I've read), and they got hit by a 8.9 earthquake. If I remember correctly the Richter scale is logarithmic. So, I wouldn't be so quick as to say they weren't top notch, just no one was expecting an earthquake this big to hit. They don't use Richter anymore. They use Moment-Magnitude which is comparable. Its still base 10 so it survived something that was 10^9/10^7 = 100x higher. That being said it wasn't a shallow underground Earthquake like the aftershock in Tokyo nor a direct hit(which is what the structure is probably rated for and then some - engineers overbuild everything). But the shallow ones located near land and not in the subduction zone don't usually hurt things much. | ||
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Rus_Brain
Russian Federation1893 Posts
10:54 DJ: Fukushima Prefecture: No Cesium, Iodine Found In Fukushima City Water Wed Afternoon ------------------------------ 11:12 DJ: Tepco Mulling Not Having Power Outages On Mar 19-20 - Kyodo ------------------------------ 11:45 DJ: Japan Police: Quake, Tsunami Death Toll At 4,164, Missing At 7,843 As Of 0900 GMT ------------------------------ 11:59 DJ: Edano: No Major Damage To No. 3 Reactor Containment Vessel At Fukushima No. 1 Plant - Kyodo ------------------------------ 12:06 DJ: Bridgestone: Fire Broke Out At Northern Japan Plant ------------------------------ 12:14 DJ: Bridgestone: Fire Extinguished Shortly After, But May Delay Resuming Operations ------------------------------ 12:39 DJ: Japan Nuclear Agency:Still Not Clear Why Raidation Levels Jumped Near No 3 Reactor ------------------------------ 12:41 DJ: Japan Nuclear Agency: Falls In Radiation Levels Near No. 3 Reactor Suggest Damage To Containment Vessel Unlikely ------------------------------ 12:44 DJ: Japan Nuclear Agency: Want To Pour Water Into No. 3, No. 4 Reactors From Ground Via Pumps ------------------------------ 12:45 DJ: Japan Nuclear Agency: Govt Wants Tepco To Soon Pour Water Into No. 3, No. 4 Reactors ------------------------------ | ||
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Nitro68
France470 Posts
That's really worrying because we are the second country in the world in number of nuclear power plants, 80% of our power comes from it and we have some world leaders in this industry. This means there is a big big Lobby and the government is never fear-mongering about that... until Monday/Thuesday :/ (Link : http://www.lepoint.fr/monde/paris-evoque-une-catastrophe-pire-que-celle-de-tchernobyl-16-03-2011-1307126_24.php only in french at the moment). | ||
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zeross
France310 Posts
The people who are quoted on this article are politician without any knowledge of how LWR works, they have experts that know and tell them but they are never once mentioned (and just look at the french's deputees "debate" on the hadopi to make you understand that they don't realy need to understand something to talk about it like they know everything). France classify the incident at 6 but looking at what a level 6 incident mean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Nuclear_Events_Scale#Level_6:_Serious_accident) it's very unlikely that the japan incident is yet to reach this level (not that it could'nt reach it, it as not yet at the moment) | ||
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yejin
France493 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:32 zeross wrote: And this article show every aspect of pour informations. They talk about "worst case scenario" without once say what the hell do they mean by that. The people who are quoted on this article are politician without any knowledge of how LWR works, they have experts that know and tell them but they are never once mentioned (and just look at the french's deputees "debate" on the hadopi to make you understand that they don't realy need to understand something to talk about it like they know everything). France classify the incident at 6 but looking at what a level 6 incident mean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Nuclear_Events_Scale#Level_6:_Serious_accident) it's very unlikely that the japan incident is yet to reach this level (not that it could'nt reach it, it as not yet at the moment) Basically the French government should keep it quiet when they don't know anything about what's happening there. In general the French coverage of the event is catastrophic, only lefigaro did have a quite accurate livefeed. I'm very very very angry at politics trying to get media exposure by calling out things that might not happen. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
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Nitro68
France470 Posts
But about the level 6 incident, it is not the government, it is the ASN which is an idependant entity (and knows what it talks about). But by that they just mean that this situation in worst than Three Mile Island but better than Tchernobyl. And they explicitly said that it does not mean there will be dead in the end. | ||
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Maggeus
France277 Posts
He's an idiot. :/ | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Finnish expert criticizes the rescue operations for being too slow and ... "schematic" or "formal"? France says that Japan can't handle the situation themselves, Finnish expert says that he's confident they do. According to Japan 3. reactor's containment thingy hasn't been damaged significantly Radiation 20 km away from the reactor doesn't pose an immediate health threat According to Daily Telegraph, IAEA warned Japan 2 years ago that the power plants can't handle powerful earthquakes properly I guess there's no new info but if someone's interested in the Finnish experts' opinions I guess. | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
On March 16 2011 23:21 Shikyo wrote: Most recent Finnish news(just a translation/summary by me from HS website): Finnish expert criticizes the rescue operations for being too slow and ... "schematic" or "formal"? France says that Japan can't handle the situation themselves, Finnish expert says that he's confident they do. According to Japan 3. reactor's containment thingy hasn't been damaged significantly Radiation 20 km away from the reactor doesn't pose an immediate health threat According to Daily Telegraph, IAEA warned Japan 2 years ago that the power plants can't handle powerful earthquakes properly I guess there's no new info but if someone's interested in the Finnish experts' opinions I guess. Russian's expert says this: "1356: More from Russia's nuclear chief. He has just said the situation in Japan is playing out according to a worst-case scenario, Reuters reports." | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2577 Posts
German text behind the spoiler. + Show Spoiler + Teilreisewarnung Das Auswärtige Amt warnt aufgrund der aktuellen Lage vor Aufenthalten im Krisengebiet im Nordosten der Insel Honshu (Teilreisewarnung). Von nicht erforderlichen Reisen nach Japan wird abgeraten. Das Auswärtige Amt empfiehlt allen Deutschen aus der Region um die Atomkraftwerke Fukushima und dem Großraum Tokyo/Yokohama, vorübergehend nach Osaka oder über Osaka ins Ausland auszuweichen. Hierzu haben die Botschaft Tokyo und das Generalkonsulat Osaka einen konsularischen Betreuungsstrang von Tokyo nach Osaka-Kobe eröffnet. Es wurde ein konsularisches Betreuungsteam eingerichtet, das an den Bahnhöfen Tokyo (Tōkyō) und Osaka-Kobe (Shin-Ōsaka) sowie am Flughafen Osaka (Kansai International Airport) präsent ist. In Osaka wird ein konsularisches Betreuungs- und Beratungszentrum eingerichtet, in dem betroffene Deutsche ihre weiteren Schritte und Planungen organisieren können. Source: http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/DE/Laenderinformationen/00-SiHi/Nodes/JapanSicherheit_node.html Translation: Partial travel warning The Foreign Ministry recommends against remaining in the crisis-striken area in the northeast of Japan and unnecessary travel to Japan due to the current situation. The Foreign Ministry recommends that all Germans leave the area around the Fukushima nuclear power plants and to temporarily relocate either to Osaka or to leave the country via Osaka. To assist in this, the embassy in Tokyo and the general consulate in Osaka have created a consular assistance chain (hard to translate - basically a team of people to assist travellers along the way out of the area) from Tokyo to Osaka/Kobe. A consular team has been created that is present in Tokyo (Tokyo station), Osaka-Kobe (Shin-Osaka station) and in the Osaka airport (Kansai International). A consular advisory and assistance center will be opened in Osaka where affected Germans can organize their further steps and plans. The source (URL in spoiler) is the German Foreign Ministry's website. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
To the UK tabloids claiming that Tokyo is in a state of panic with thousands on the run, we'd just like to say how laughable that is. about 4 hours ago via TweetDeck My friend can confirm since she works in Roppongi, no one is running and says it's hilarious/upsetting/ridiculous what foreign newspapers are writing. | ||
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fanta[Rn]
Japan2465 Posts
http://ukinjapan.fco.gov.uk/en/news/?view=News&id=566811882 | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2577 Posts
On March 16 2011 22:41 Boblion wrote: They just don't want people to talk about Libya. What value do you feel you are contributing to this thread by posting this sort of nonsense? | ||
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Consolidate
United States829 Posts
On March 16 2011 23:35 AmericanUmlaut wrote: What value do you feel you are contributing to this thread by posting this sort of nonsense? Honestly, he has a point. France has so much egg on its face due to its embarrassingly unsuccessful attempt to convince G8 nations to intervene in Libya. France looks weak and ineffective, so it's probably eager to push attention away to another story. | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2577 Posts
On March 16 2011 23:41 Consolidate wrote: Honestly, he has a point. France has so much egg on its face due to its embarrassingly unsuccessful attempt to convince G8 nations to intervene in Libya. France looks weak and ineffective, so it's probably eager to push attention away to another story. Sorry, I didn't understand the context of Boblion's comment (that it was a response to France's apocalyptic response to the crisis in Japan). | ||
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Rus_Brain
Russian Federation1893 Posts
12:48 DJ: Japan Nuclear Agency: Doesn't Expect Any Troubles Near-Term At No. 5, No. 6 Reactors ------------------------------ 12:49 DJ: Japan Nuclear Agency: Plenty Of Water Remains In No. 5, No. 6 Reactors ------------------------------ 12:59 DJ: Japan Nuclear Agency: Water May Be Boiling In No. 3, No. 4 Reactors ------------------------------ 12:59 DJ: Japan Nuclear Agency: Spent Fuel Not Likely Exposed In No. 3, No. 4 Reactors ------------------------------ 13:01 DJ: Japan Nuclear Agency: Tepco May Again Mull Using Helicopter To Dump Water On No. 3 Reactor If Conditions Met ------------------------------ 13:08 DJ: Japan Nuclear Agency: No. 1, No. 2 Reactors Also Contain Spent Fuel In Water ------------------------------ 13:11 DJ: Japan Nuclear Agency: Possible That Part Of Fuel In No. 4 Reactor Being Exposed ------------------------------ 13:12 DJ: Japan Nuclear Agency: Top Priority Is To Pour Water Into No. 3, No. 4 Reactors ------------------------------ 13:24 DJ: Japan Nuclear Agency: Not Sure If No. 3 Reactor Still Emitting Smoke Now ------------------------------ 13:39 DJ: Quake Shakes Tokyo Region ------------------------------ 14:32 DJ: Ishinomaki Mayor: Number Of Missing People Likely To Hit Around 10,000-Kyodo ------------------------------ | ||
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Rus_Brain
Russian Federation1893 Posts
14:11 DJMN: UPDATE: Tokyo Radiation Around Typical Background Levels Despite Fears (Adds radiation figures in other areas, context.) By Hiroyuki Kachi Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES TOKYO (Dow Jones)--Radiation was around typical background levels in central Tokyo on Wednesday afternoon, while in cities closer to the stricken Fukushima nuclear power plant it was elevated but not a threat to human health, officials said. Radiation emissions from the Fukushima Daiichi plant have become an international concern after massive earthquake on March 11 knocked out the cooling systems of several of the reactors there and following subsequent spikes in radiation readings in the immediate area as engineers battle to prevent overheating. The plant is around 300 kilometers northeast of central Tokyo. The Tokyo Metropolitan Government said it measured a radiation level of 0.053 microsievert an hour in the central business and shopping hub of Shinjuku around 0800 GMT Wednesday, slightly higher than the 0.035 microsievert an hour a person would typically be exposed to in Shinjuku due to background radiation. On Tuesday, Tokyo said radiation was around 0.809 microsievert an hour in Shinjuku at 0100 GMT. A chest x-ray typically exposes the patient to a radiation dose of around 100 microseverts, according to the Radiological Society of North America. Radiation levels were higher in Fukushima Prefecture, closer to the nuclear plant, but not a threat to health. According to the prefectural government, radiation was at 15.5 microsieverts an hour in Fukushima City, about 60 kilometers northwest of the plant; 3.18 in Koriyama City, around 60 kilometers west of the plant, and 1.87 in Iwaki City, about 40 kilometers southwest of the plant. In Kitaibaraki City, about 70 kilometers southwest of the plant in Ibaraki Prefecture, radiation was 2.24 microsieverts an hour around 0700 GMT after a reading of 15.8 around 0240 GMT. The mood in Tsukuba City, also in Ibaraki Prefecture, appeared relatively calm despite the ongoing operation to control overheating at the Daiichi plant. "I think people in non-quake areas are too panicky," said Yusuke Kamei, an office worker in his 30's. "But I feel anxious about things in the days ahead," he said. Yoshitomo Nakamura, a retired government worker, said the government should disclose regularly updated radiation levels on TV. South of Tokyo in Yokosuka, which is where U.S. Navy in Japan is located, radiation was at 0.085 microsievert an hour around 0700 GMT, said an official at the Kanagawa Prefectural Government. "We will keep monitoring the situation," said the official. Authorities have evacuated people within a 20 kilometer radius of the troubled nuclear power plant and have told those within an 30 kilometer radius to stay inside. Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano has said radiation levels pose no immediate danger to the health of people remaining in the area subject to evacuation. -By Hiroyuki Kachi, Dow Jones Newswires; 813-6269-2789; Hiroyuki.Kachi@dowjones.com -Yoshiyuki Tomiyama contributed to this article (END) Dow Jones Newswires March 16, 2011 10:11 ET (14:11 GMT) | ||
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Rus_Brain
Russian Federation1893 Posts
14:46 DJMN: Shizuoka Quake Halts Jatco's 3 Local Plants - Nikkei TOKYO (Nikkei)--Automotive transmission manufacturer Jatco Ltd. said Wednesday that the previous night's earthquake that hit eastern Shizuoka Prefecture damaged three local factories, the Nikkei reported in its Thursday morning edition. The magnitude 6.4 quake damaged some equipment, shattered skylights and toppled cool-air ducts and fluorescent lighting at plants in the cities of Fuji, Fujinomiya and Shizuoka. Jatco will idle these facilities Thursday and Friday, but aims to bring them back online as soon as possible after conducting inspections and repairs. The company's Kakegawa factory in the same prefecture did not suffer any major damage. The Shizuoka quake hit on the eve of the company's planned suspension of operations at these sites. The temporary shutdown was called to assess how the disruption in parts supplies caused by last week's northeastern Japan megaquake will impact business. (END) Dow Jones Newswires March 16, 2011 10:46 ET (14:46 GMT) | ||
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