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Off topic discussion and argumentative back and forth will not be tolerated. |
On February 22 2011 15:30 Wasteweiser wrote:
Funny reading some of the comments here, people have no idea what lybia is like, Gadafi runs the army, the army runs the country, there is no police its the military. I'm suprised they have protests in Lybian, Gadafi will kill every single last protester, in that country there is one thing you never do, and its fuck with the military. My dad told me stories of college kids protesting peacefully once in thier school, ended with 10 people randomly hanged.
It's not just some protesters, how they are called. It's more a revolution, you can call them revolutionaries, they are armed, some of them perform looting, a civil war has already begun. He has to win a war now, not just shoot protestors. No one is going to protest anymore, it's either fight or go home.
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And you are probably not looking at one structured Army anymore either. With mutiny and defections spreading, Khadafi has resorted to flying in mercenaries from outside of Libya who are willing to kill innocents.
Breaking news is that the runways at the airport of the second largest city Benghazi are so damaged that planes can no longer land or take off. What the hell is going on there?
I think it is more and more likely that we will see some sort of military intervention in Libya.
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Price of oil rocketing again.
Anyone prepared for another bout of the global economic meltdown?
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Sanya12364 Posts
The entire middle east political structure looks like it's toppling. Libya will burn because of the destructiveness of Qadafi. This one is looking to be bloody unlike egypt and tunisia. I have to wonder about the other countries.
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Danish media reported yesterday, that the military had put in fighterjets to disperse the demonstrators. There were several bombs dropped and people killed. Khadafi's son later appered on state TV saying that the planes were only bombing ammonations depots... Yeah right, that makes sense..
Sick fucking bastard.. Bombing demonstrators with fighterplanes..
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I actually wanted to get involved in covering this by translating tweets from people of Libya as well as some of the news that doesn't get translated, but there are almost no no sources at all, let alone those that are reliable.
The situation in Libya is so grim it's saddening.
I hope things get better soon.
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well i guess we were all suspecting that Qadafi is a weirdo but after this... damn he is a mad man O.o
After so many days (whole month?) of human rights violations all over that place Ban Ki-moon expressed today his disturbance. Oh wow man geez thanks for the support /facepalm
Damn hypocrites...
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United States42016 Posts
BBC's Libyan correspondant seems to think tribal warfare is unlikely due to the increased education and urbanisation of Gaddafi's early regime.
...tribal kinship has been on the wane due to the growth in education and urbanisation, which separated people from their traditional tribal areas and contributed to weakening their tribal affinity.
Col Gaddafi and his colleagues in the Free Unionist Officers had pledged to eliminate tribalism upon seizing power in 1969.
For the first ten years or so of his rule, tribal identification was officially frowned upon. During this time, Col Gaddafi could count on the support of most of the population.
His political credit was still high and in general, he had the backing of the army.
However, as his popularity diminished and as he began to fall out with his colleagues in the Free Unionist Officers corps - all but a handful of whom have now disappeared from public view - he relied increasingly on tribalism and tribal rivalry in order to consolidate his grip on power.
There's a certain irony in that, he undermined them as a power in society when his power was secure, then sought to divide and rule and now finds himself forced to threaten with the spectre of civil war in order to validate his rule.
On an unrelated note
Export licences for British arms to Libya in the first nine months of 2010 were valued at over £200m, spanning military cameras and sniper rifles. 
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On February 22 2011 22:23 Deyster wrote:
I actually wanted to get involved in covering this by translating tweets from people of Libya as well as some of the news that doesn't get translated, but there are almost no no sources at all, let alone those that are reliable.
The situation in Libya is so grim it's saddening.
I hope things get better soon.
Yeah, it's pretty shocking how little actual information is getting out. Kinda like Myanmar or North Korea.
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As far as I heard though from tweets from reliable Egyptian posters that: "Egyptian people from various cities are sending aid to Libya just now". However, what kind of aid is that I don't know. I think it's supplies and food, but I hope someone would give the people in Libya some tool to get connected with the outside world and get the stories covered.
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Could you tell us a bit about what Egyptian mainstream media are saying about this?
Both with regards to the general sentiment towards the Libyan regime, as well as which measures the Egyptian authorities are making for their own citizens inside of Libya.
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If the US correctly intervenes in some areas, they could get quite a lot of good reputation among the people. However the window for this is quickly closing since those pilots deserted.
Well it takes a while to organize something like that, and quite a bit of money. Hopefully the situation takes a turn for the better, either from internal sources or from UN intervention.
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Outside intervention is something that must be avoided, it never ends good.
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On February 23 2011 00:32 Body_Shield wrote:
If the US correctly intervenes in some areas, they could get quite a lot of good reputation among the people. However the window for this is quickly closing since those pilots deserted.
Well it takes a while to organize something like that, and quite a bit of money. Hopefully the situation takes a turn for the better, either from internal sources or from UN intervention.
No, America's best move is to not say or do anything. Look what former involvement has done in places like iraq and afghanistan? Any involvement by the west will be viewed hatefully, thats how they are.
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On February 23 2011 03:26 Wasteweiser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:32 Body_Shield wrote:
If the US correctly intervenes in some areas, they could get quite a lot of good reputation among the people. However the window for this is quickly closing since those pilots deserted.
Well it takes a while to organize something like that, and quite a bit of money. Hopefully the situation takes a turn for the better, either from internal sources or from UN intervention. No, America's best move is to not say or do anything. Look what former involvement has done in places like iraq and afghanistan? Any involvement by the west will be viewed hatefully, thats how they are.
Comparing Iraq+Afghanistan to Libya is just stupid. The pretexts of any possible involvement in Libya would be completely different from Iraq+Afghanistan. It's true that it is probably best that the west doesn't get involved quite yet, but the situation is different when you have former ambassadors to western countries asking for help to end what is looking almost like a civil war. A better comparison would be the UN+AU force in Sudan.
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United States13896 Posts
On February 23 2011 03:42 ZeaL. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 03:26 Wasteweiser wrote:On February 23 2011 00:32 Body_Shield wrote:
If the US correctly intervenes in some areas, they could get quite a lot of good reputation among the people. However the window for this is quickly closing since those pilots deserted.
Well it takes a while to organize something like that, and quite a bit of money. Hopefully the situation takes a turn for the better, either from internal sources or from UN intervention. No, America's best move is to not say or do anything. Look what former involvement has done in places like iraq and afghanistan? Any involvement by the west will be viewed hatefully, thats how they are. Comparing Iraq+Afghanistan to Libya is just stupid. The pretexts of any possible involvement in Libya would be completely different from Iraq+Afghanistan. It's true that it is probably best that the west doesn't get involved quite yet, but the situation is different when you have former ambassadors to western countries asking for help to end what is looking almost like a civil war. A better comparison would be the UN+AU force in Sudan.
I'm not well versed on what Libyan opinions of America are but we did bomb the country during the Reagan Presidency so I doubt any US intervention would be beneficial in the slightest.
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United States42016 Posts
The standard line of these dictators is that all opposition is fuelled by colonial interests seeking to control their natural resources. This propaganda makes intervention politically impossible.
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As much as Egypt has been a breaking point in the uprising of protests in a lot of mid-eastern countries (to the point where people think its where it started...), Libya looks like another country where the outcome could also have a very big impact on the political situation in other surrounding countries.
If Ghadaffi ends up falling, I think its safe to say that others will follow and make their voice heard and that a growing number of politicians will start feeling the heat. The fall of Libya would mean the fall of the African Union, which could then lead to instability in a lot of countries.
On the other end, if Ghadaffi manages to hold, which would without a doubt be done through blood, I think a climate of fear might install itself and put a hold to the situation.
TLDR : It will be interesting to see the future developments in Libya.
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On February 23 2011 03:26 Wasteweiser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 00:32 Body_Shield wrote:
If the US correctly intervenes in some areas, they could get quite a lot of good reputation among the people. However the window for this is quickly closing since those pilots deserted.
Well it takes a while to organize something like that, and quite a bit of money. Hopefully the situation takes a turn for the better, either from internal sources or from UN intervention. No, America's best move is to not say or do anything. Look what former involvement has done in places like iraq and afghanistan? Any involvement by the west will be viewed hatefully, thats how they are.
I said correctly
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EPT
