EPTI really dont want to come out rude, but (from an international law students perspective at least) I cant remember when is the last time that the American governement has intervened in a conflict in a ''correct'' manner. (Im not trying to blame the US solely for that, their way of doing things is perhaps questionnable, but at the same time acting on the international level is always a risky business due to the importance of the sovereignty of countries.)
Libyan Uprising - Page 10
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
I really dont want to come out rude, but (from an international law students perspective at least) I cant remember when is the last time that the American governement has intervened in a conflict in a ''correct'' manner. (Im not trying to blame the US solely for that, their way of doing things is perhaps questionnable, but at the same time acting on the international level is always a risky business due to the importance of the sovereignty of countries.) | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Vore210
Ireland256 Posts
On February 23 2011 05:53 TurpinOS wrote: I really dont want to come out rude, but (from an international law students perspective at least) I cant remember when is the last time that the American governement has intervened in a conflict in a ''correct'' manner. (Im not trying to blame the US solely for that, their way of doing things is perhaps questionnable, but at the same time acting on the international level is always a risky business due to the importance of the sovereignty of countries.) While I don't mean to offend anyone, a quote from Winston Churchill put it best :You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else. Also yea a policy of inaction in these contries is best, otherwise they see it as "the interfering, arrogant west". | ||
BroOd
Austin10833 Posts
"This is my country, the country of my grandfathers," Gadhafi said in remarks carried live on Libyan state television. He vowed to die "a martyr" in his country. Blaming the unrest on "rats" who are "agents" of foreign intelligence services, Gadhafi read from a book of laws and said people found to be cooperating with outside forces fomenting discord, and those who carry weapons against the country, will be executed. [source] Apparently his speech was absolutely crazy. Here's an interesting comment from reddit describing some of the content of the speech: + Show Spoiler + He has refused to quit. He has said he will defend himself with a gun. In a strange outfit with his face painted white, he is now ranting, insanely ranting, about cockroaches, drugs, and all sorts of utter nonsense. It made such little sense that the BBC have stopped showing it and cut to William Hague, who, despite being a moron, does make sense. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698 Al Jazeera live stream: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/ Updates: 1) BBC have cut back to Gadaffi, he is still talking shit. 2) He is now talking about the Tianamen square massacre, and he's holding a green book. 3) He describes Americans as insects. 4) He has accused America of killing all those people in the school with poisonous gas? 5) America wiped out Fallujah with chemical weapons. 6) America should be destroyed because they harbour terrorists. 7) Between 2 and three million were killed in Bahgdad. 8) BBC have pulled out. He said that 'people can go to hell, they are using drugs' It's been 40 minutes of ranting now. Has anyone got a full video of this? 9) Drop bombs on American cities? erm... seriously... 10) Something about Al-Zahkari. He could rehabilitate the terrorists and make them members of the community. 11) Women and children should go out into the streets and head up a peoples revolution? 12) People must respect peoples authority? 13) Get out of your houses and.... Stream cuts out. 14) Apprehend someone in Japan? I missed who it was... 15) There will be new peoples authorities? 16) I don't have money I don't have a palace. I want everything that I have and for the legal people. I want to preserve our oil. 17) We outnumber the protesters. Occupy the airport and the ports, and bring back security. 18) The libyan oil should be distributed to all people, take it , do whatever you want to do, I won't take a share. Take your share do whatever you like with it. 19) Our brothers have betrayed us instead of relaying the truth are showing pictures that are many years old. The media are dirty, check the libyan media to see the dirty tricks. 20) Airports and radios are not working. They are dangerous terrorists. 21) America America derpa derpa derpa derp. 22) This is only a very few who terrorised Bengazi. 23) On peaceful demonstrations about Gaza and Iraq, they have the peoples committee conferences and we have to go there and resolve our differences there. 24) I myself led peaceful demonstrations in the old regime, but I did not seek destruction or do destruction. 25) I am against the bomb somewhere. The explosion in somewhere or other. 26) The world must understand that demonstrations are different. Many people don't need to resort to demonstations, they can go to the peoples comittees, but to take arms, we will not allow it. 27) Rebellion in Russian parliament was dealt with by death, and the cults in Waco (US) was dealt with by armored vehicles. 28) The uprising in Fallujah was dealth with by air attack because there was an armed uprising. 29) Armed uprisings in the US and Russia have been dealt with by force. 30) Tanks were sent to tianaman square to deal with the protesters. It is not a joke, I will do whatever it takes to make sure part of the country is not taken away. 31) Peaceful demonstration is different. Talking to foreign countries, there is a conspiracy. It's a totally different issue. We're coming up to one hour of derp now. 32) Those who stepped on union jack flag, calling them traitors, we will rehabilitate them, make them teachers in the state. 33) The libyan leader is approaching a poetic ... about someone from Tehran? (can't make it out) 34) The youth have been given hallucination tablets. The punishment to those who give and use these tablets should be death. A NEW TRANSLATOR 35) They are still cheering for revolution. The guards guard the revolutionaries. I will talk to them and I will find out what they're doing and I'll convince them. These radios and television that be been abusing the events , like the american states, or german states for that matter, we know each other by name. The sons of Hajica, the garzan, and other tribes, the young, the late, had you been alive, these things wouldn't have happened. ONE HOUR OF DERP! CONGRATULATIONS ON THE DERPING! We see everyone, from one tribe or the other, honestly, we have a way now al shaman, shaib, we know each other. Who in the world would know each other like us. We know each other very well. We keep each other. That's what the hero of the musharab battle, from the majeda, how can we ignore all of this history, it is impossible. Are you from Shafur, Zawaya, the mother of all tribes? Are you from the Rahmeer? We know each other. This translator is way better To hassa, we say to them are you shabaraga? Gasu? All everything I've said just now, look at your arab brothers, one of the distorted sattelite channels said I have asked to fire on these people. I haven't. I sent people to arrest those people who have misled them. Even the security council talk about the use of force. Men and women need to come out now and secure their towns and cities (from these protesters). Are their adminstations in libya? All administrations are supporting us. What is required is giving up all the weapons terrorising people. People are dying. No water, no food, nothing. Al bagari you should come out and run the city until the police come back to it, and the new assemblys, he will help you. SHAME ON YOU! Are you gangsters? Giving up all weapons from the authorities from drugged young people who have got machine guns, setting prisoners free. We need to teach them a lesson to stop taking the drugs they have been taking. All obstacles to life are in the street. Don't destroy your country for no reason, what is the reason? SHame on you. We are living in safety security, prosperity, then we burn our country down? Al JAzeera have pulled out now They said that it was a rambling, imcomprehensible speech. They summarized that he blames drugged young people for what is happening and that 'the unity of China was more important than those people in Tianamen Square' There's no substance to what he's saying, and he's repeating himself. He's saying that the people should be greatful for what he has achieved and that he has not used violence yet, but he will do if he needs to. OK He's STILL DERPING! I'm out. If someone wants to pickup the derp flag and run with it to derp town, be my guest. He's done some sort of Hitler esque end to his speech, but no one gave a toss and one military man came and issued a kiss to his cheek. Very strange. | ||
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CrimsonLotus
Colombia1123 Posts
On February 23 2011 06:07 BroOd wrote: Gadhafi vows to die a 'martyr' [source] Apparently his speech was absolutely crazy. Here's an interesting comment from reddit describing some of the content of the speech: + Show Spoiler + He has refused to quit. He has said he will defend himself with a gun. In a strange outfit with his face painted white, he is now ranting, insanely ranting, about cockroaches, drugs, and all sorts of utter nonsense. It made such little sense that the BBC have stopped showing it and cut to William Hague, who, despite being a moron, does make sense. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698 Al Jazeera live stream: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/ Updates: 1) BBC have cut back to Gadaffi, he is still talking shit. 2) He is now talking about the Tianamen square massacre, and he's holding a green book. 3) He describes Americans as insects. 4) He has accused America of killing all those people in the school with poisonous gas? 5) America wiped out Fallujah with chemical weapons. 6) America should be destroyed because they harbour terrorists. 7) Between 2 and three million were killed in Bahgdad. 8) BBC have pulled out. He said that 'people can go to hell, they are using drugs' It's been 40 minutes of ranting now. Has anyone got a full video of this? 9) Drop bombs on American cities? erm... seriously... 10) Something about Al-Zahkari. He could rehabilitate the terrorists and make them members of the community. 11) Women and children should go out into the streets and head up a peoples revolution? 12) People must respect peoples authority? 13) Get out of your houses and.... Stream cuts out. 14) Apprehend someone in Japan? I missed who it was... 15) There will be new peoples authorities? 16) I don't have money I don't have a palace. I want everything that I have and for the legal people. I want to preserve our oil. 17) We outnumber the protesters. Occupy the airport and the ports, and bring back security. 18) The libyan oil should be distributed to all people, take it , do whatever you want to do, I won't take a share. Take your share do whatever you like with it. 19) Our brothers have betrayed us instead of relaying the truth are showing pictures that are many years old. The media are dirty, check the libyan media to see the dirty tricks. 20) Airports and radios are not working. They are dangerous terrorists. 21) America America derpa derpa derpa derp. 22) This is only a very few who terrorised Bengazi. 23) On peaceful demonstrations about Gaza and Iraq, they have the peoples committee conferences and we have to go there and resolve our differences there. 24) I myself led peaceful demonstrations in the old regime, but I did not seek destruction or do destruction. 25) I am against the bomb somewhere. The explosion in somewhere or other. 26) The world must understand that demonstrations are different. Many people don't need to resort to demonstations, they can go to the peoples comittees, but to take arms, we will not allow it. 27) Rebellion in Russian parliament was dealt with by death, and the cults in Waco (US) was dealt with by armored vehicles. 28) The uprising in Fallujah was dealth with by air attack because there was an armed uprising. 29) Armed uprisings in the US and Russia have been dealt with by force. 30) Tanks were sent to tianaman square to deal with the protesters. It is not a joke, I will do whatever it takes to make sure part of the country is not taken away. 31) Peaceful demonstration is different. Talking to foreign countries, there is a conspiracy. It's a totally different issue. We're coming up to one hour of derp now. 32) Those who stepped on union jack flag, calling them traitors, we will rehabilitate them, make them teachers in the state. 33) The libyan leader is approaching a poetic ... about someone from Tehran? (can't make it out) 34) The youth have been given hallucination tablets. The punishment to those who give and use these tablets should be death. A NEW TRANSLATOR 35) They are still cheering for revolution. The guards guard the revolutionaries. I will talk to them and I will find out what they're doing and I'll convince them. These radios and television that be been abusing the events , like the american states, or german states for that matter, we know each other by name. The sons of Hajica, the garzan, and other tribes, the young, the late, had you been alive, these things wouldn't have happened. ONE HOUR OF DERP! CONGRATULATIONS ON THE DERPING! We see everyone, from one tribe or the other, honestly, we have a way now al shaman, shaib, we know each other. Who in the world would know each other like us. We know each other very well. We keep each other. That's what the hero of the musharab battle, from the majeda, how can we ignore all of this history, it is impossible. Are you from Shafur, Zawaya, the mother of all tribes? Are you from the Rahmeer? We know each other. This translator is way better To hassa, we say to them are you shabaraga? Gasu? All everything I've said just now, look at your arab brothers, one of the distorted sattelite channels said I have asked to fire on these people. I haven't. I sent people to arrest those people who have misled them. Even the security council talk about the use of force. Men and women need to come out now and secure their towns and cities (from these protesters). Are their adminstations in libya? All administrations are supporting us. What is required is giving up all the weapons terrorising people. People are dying. No water, no food, nothing. Al bagari you should come out and run the city until the police come back to it, and the new assemblys, he will help you. SHAME ON YOU! Are you gangsters? Giving up all weapons from the authorities from drugged young people who have got machine guns, setting prisoners free. We need to teach them a lesson to stop taking the drugs they have been taking. All obstacles to life are in the street. Don't destroy your country for no reason, what is the reason? SHame on you. We are living in safety security, prosperity, then we burn our country down? Al JAzeera have pulled out now They said that it was a rambling, imcomprehensible speech. They summarized that he blames drugged young people for what is happening and that 'the unity of China was more important than those people in Tianamen Square' There's no substance to what he's saying, and he's repeating himself. He's saying that the people should be greatful for what he has achieved and that he has not used violence yet, but he will do if he needs to. OK He's STILL DERPING! I'm out. If someone wants to pickup the derp flag and run with it to derp town, be my guest. He's done some sort of Hitler esque end to his speech, but no one gave a toss and one military man came and issued a kiss to his cheek. Very strange. This guy is just beyond crazy... WTF is he talking about?, nothing scarier than a true madman waging war. | ||
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
Quote which I think describes his current opinion fairly well + Show Spoiler + “You men and women who love Gaddafi ... get out of your homes and fill the streets,” he said. “Leave your homes and attack them in their lairs. They are taking your children and getting them drunk and sending them to death. For what? To destroy Libya, burn Libya.” Commentary I found particularily interesting concerning the ''character that Gaddafi is. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Hatsu
United Kingdom474 Posts
Meanwhile, Italy may have to face about 200/300 thousand refugees according to the Italian government, and the EU refuses to redistribute them among European countries. This may get quite ugly, there is absolutely no way this can happen without loss of life. | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On February 23 2011 05:53 TurpinOS wrote: I really dont want to come out rude, but (from an international law students perspective at least) I cant remember when is the last time that the American governement has intervened in a conflict in a ''correct'' manner. (Im not trying to blame the US solely for that, their way of doing things is perhaps questionnable, but at the same time acting on the international level is always a risky business due to the importance of the sovereignty of countries.) Probably 1991, Operation Desert Storm. The US probably did some minor-but-favorable peacekeeping operations during the Clinton administration, too. Two decades ago, most of the world* actually liked the United States...it's hard to believe, but it's true. Then came 2000. I'd like to think that the damage is being repaired. If slowly. *I only know this for a fact for the Western world. The stats seem to back it up for the rest of the areas of the world, though. Except the Middle East, which has hated the United States for understandable reasons for decades. http://pewglobal.org/2009/07/23/u-s-favorability-in-western-europe/ | ||
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don_kyuhote
3007 Posts
Little did I know that it would be Gaddafi first! | ||
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Consolidate
United States829 Posts
People here don't seem to realize that Gaddafi was a pretty decent ruler by relative standards. The man had visions of uniting Africa and used his nation's oil money to give aid to poorer african states. In recent times he was also as good of a friend of the West as one could hope for. Per Capita GDP in Libya is around $14000 Literacy rate is about 90% Demographically speaking, a large portion of the population are youths, who also happen to be the ones protesting. In my mind, these protests are unwarranted and irresponsible, but Gaddafi's response has been horrifically inept. Libya is fucked big-time. It will be decades before the country recovers. | ||
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don_kyuhote
3007 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:26 Consolidate wrote: 2011 is proving to be an interesting year... People here don't seem to realize that Gaddafi was a pretty decent ruler by relative standards. The man had visions of uniting Africa and used his nation's oil money to give aid to poorer african states. In recent times he was also as good of a friend of the West as one could hope for. Per Capita GDP in Libya is around $14000 Literacy rate is about 90% Demographically speaking, a large portion of the population are youths, who also happen to be the ones protesting. In my mind, these protests are unwarranted and irresponsible, but Gaddafi's response has been horrifically inept. Libya is fucked big-time. It will be decades before the country recovers. I think the fact that a lot of Libyan diplomats defected and a lot of military forces no longer support him to a point where there could be civil war speaks enough about Gaddafi's rulership. Good friend of the West? And Mubarak wasn't? | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Aid convoys from Egypt arriving: Youths burning giant Gaddafi poster: | ||
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Consolidate
United States829 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:55 don_kyuhote wrote: I think the fact that a lot of Libyan diplomats defected and a lot of military forces no longer support him to a point where there could be civil war speaks enough about Gaddafi's rulership. Good friend of the West? And Mubarak wasn't? Gaddafi is handling the situatiion horrifically to be sure. But I very much doubt the ability of the Libyian people to run things after this crisis is over. Don't be surprised to find your country with another authoritarian regime in the near future. | ||
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don_kyuhote
3007 Posts
 Anyway, yeah I agree that should Gaddafi be removed, there will be enormous power vacuum that this country has not faced before, and who knows what can happen then. Another Somalia? | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:26 Consolidate wrote: In my mind, these protests are unwarranted and irresponsible, but Gaddafi's response has been horrifically inept. Libya is fucked big-time. It will be decades before the country recovers. If you're going to tell people they shouldn't stand up for their rights you should be pretty damn sure you're right about the consequences. In the end you probably just don't know. You have no way of knowing if Lybia can turn into a successful democratic country. And you can\'t know whether Gaddafi or his son would have fucked up the country or not. | ||
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Senorcuidado
United States700 Posts
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LaSt)ChAnCe
United States2179 Posts
anyone know for sure? | ||
j0k3r
United States577 Posts
On February 23 2011 14:36 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: gaddafi resigned, i was just told this anyone know for sure? CNN reported his interior minister resigned, but I doubt the man himself would do such a thing. | ||
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Ganondorf
Italy600 Posts
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Koyv
United States2 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:26 Consolidate wrote: 2011 is proving to be an interesting year... People here don't seem to realize that Gaddafi was a pretty decent ruler by relative standards. The man had visions of uniting Africa and used his nation's oil money to give aid to poorer african states. In recent times he was also as good of a friend of the West as one could hope for. Per Capita GDP in Libya is around $14000 Literacy rate is about 90% Demographically speaking, a large portion of the population are youths, who also happen to be the ones protesting. In my mind, these protests are unwarranted and irresponsible, but Gaddafi's response has been horrifically inept. Libya is fucked big-time. It will be decades before the country recovers. Gaddafi was not decent. He tortured and kidnapped people till the 80s then America sent missles and people forgot about him until now. One story I have heard from my father was that one day Gaddafi closed all the roads to the mosque except one. On this road were bodies hung on light posts. That is just one thing Gaddafi did. He has and always was a dictator. The only saving grace was that SOME of the oil money went to the people, where he kept most of it. Another thing was his semi democratic government with local villagers holding some power(Supposedly). All that was in his insane green book which was rambling. | ||
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