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On January 25 2011 19:07 Rokit5 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 17:30 Euronyme wrote:
Hasn't like every other western world country already had this for like 70 years or so? Ah well. Hope it turns out alright for you, but imho keeping it is the best thing you can do.
Democrats are considered right wing over here though, so I guess my view of things are somewhat skewed. Yeah the do. In fact all most every country in the world has a government run healthcare. I feel sorry for americans that this is such a big issue, especially i feel sorry for the millions of people that does not own a healthcare insurance. Its insane that in the richest country in the world, people just die on the streets and in their homes, because they dont have enough money. Nutz.
I am unaware of people dying in their homes because they didn't have money. Hospitals take patients who can't pay quite regularly. Also, this didn't institute government run health care. It requires US citizens to purchase health insurance from private companies or from the government. The point is to lower premiums on insurance rates for those with major health problems.
I am for government health care, but I am against requiring people to purchase health insurance. It isn't the same thing.
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45000 deaths/yr due to lack of healthcare
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE58G6W520090917
just like voting, the healthcare would progress
at first you had to be a white male an own land
then just a white male
then just male
then just a citizen
then just 18
it was one step towards universal healthcare, but if we let the big businesses dictate the direction of the country, we'll see more of a downward spiral such as the 8 year administration that ruined the economy by bending over for oil corporations
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My understanding is that the moment if you have no health insurance you have to pay the full price of health care or more likely can't get health care at all, correct me if I am wrong. This to me is competely unbelivable coming from the U.K where health care is free and open to everyone. I can't believe anyone would ever vote against a bill that granted everyone the right to free health care. To me its bascially saying I'm O.K and the poor don't deserve health care i don't care.
Perhaps because health care is open to everyone and free the standard in the U.K is not always that greatest standard and you can often expect long waits and ques TT. However there is private health care that the rich can pay for if they feel they need it. So its not like they lose out.
Adding a third perspective I have had a lot of treetment on my leg here in South korea. The standard of treetment is amazing comparred to the U.K Public system. I seriously walked in of the street saw a GP and had an X ray like that with like 10 mins waiting. It cost me 10,000 won which is like £5 and my physio theraphy since then has been 2,000 won about a £1 a sesion its unbelivablly cheap. I don't know how they manage to have it so cheap (maybe exchange rate makes it seem cheaper to me). I'm might be covered by some kind of health insurance from my job I don't understand or know about, who knows.
Anyway my basic point is I can't believe anyone would vote against health care reform.
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good news
i have been hearing about 500 or so big businesses like McDonalds that have been allowed to avoid paying the healthcare for their employees
this thing would hurt small businesses whilst big business reaps ever greater profits
hey , isn't that what America is about nowdays?
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Just a little clarification: if you turn up to the ER w/o insurance, the hospital has to treat you until you are at no immediate risk of dying. Then they send you the bill, which will probably be more than 10x your disposable income.
Then, of course, since they don't have to cure you, only stabilize you, you will be going back to the ER in a few weeks/months, getting another bill for all your assets, which you don't have anymore, because you went broke after the first visit.
edit:
On January 25 2011 20:34 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
good news
i have been hearing about 500 or so big businesses like McDonalds that have been allowed to avoid paying the healthcare for their employees
this thing would hurt small businesses whilst big business reaps ever greater profits
hey , isn't that what America is about nowdays?
This is actually a good thing, at least in the long term. Ending employer supplied healthcare is one of the steps that need to be taken before healthcare can truly start to improve in the US.
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On January 25 2011 17:40 Whiladan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 17:25 VonLego wrote:
You'd rather they sit around and do nothing as opposed to working to repeal that bill as they promised their voters? The bill was never popular in the first place, and for good reason. Health care reform is an important topic, but the underhanded tactics and recklessness that were involved in passing the bill in the first place shouldn't be the methodology. Think about this for just a moment? They are getting absolutely nowhere, so they are doing absolutely nothing. Sure, they promised their voters something, but when has that ever fucking mattered in US politics anyway? I didn't vote Republican this midterm, but I would still prefer if they worked on important topics that they could actually make headway on...something beneficial to BOTH parties. But that wouldn't make for good showboating/pundit fuel. So our Congress will stick to being useless shits.
Pretty much this, but then when has that ever not been the case?
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One step forward two steps back. I was really happy when the health care bill passed. Even saw it live via CSPAN. Not really sure why this is the way US politics work. I'm probably at fault to some extent seeing as I didn't vote in the midterm elections. But w/e I get sick a like once a year, if that, so just have to count on good luck until these clowns grow up and actually try to come to some kind of compromise between the two extremes.
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On January 25 2011 19:27 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 19:07 Rokit5 wrote:On January 25 2011 17:30 Euronyme wrote:
Hasn't like every other western world country already had this for like 70 years or so? Ah well. Hope it turns out alright for you, but imho keeping it is the best thing you can do.
Democrats are considered right wing over here though, so I guess my view of things are somewhat skewed. Yeah the do. In fact all most every country in the world has a government run healthcare. I feel sorry for americans that this is such a big issue, especially i feel sorry for the millions of people that does not own a healthcare insurance. Its insane that in the richest country in the world, people just die on the streets and in their homes, because they dont have enough money. Nutz. Well the problem is that the US has a 80% debt of their GDP, which is pretty gosh darn bad. Other countries have implented this when the economic position was reasonably good, or right after ww2 when the public demanded it. Health care is also a bigger issue in the US. Currently health care takes up a huge percentage in the spending of the US federal funds, whereas in other countries with even better health care it does not as much. I think it all needs somewhat of a revamp. Just my opinion. I don't live in the US, and I havn't studied the system in perfect detail, so ofcourse I might be totally wrong.
you're just the kind of person that likes to comment on these things, at least you have the decency to admit you could be wrong. 99% of people in this thread are people that read a headline about it and just wanna come and say "oh my country can do it why can't yours" without knowing what the bill entails and even less about the current healthcare system.
And to all those european welfare countries let me ask you this. can you countries really afford government/free healthcare? doesnt seem like it the way the PIIGS are failing.
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I would love to see politicians use their heads and not always fall into line. Why does everybody 'vote the party line' anyway? Is it because the votes are not anonymous? If this is true it should be fixed immediately. Democracy only works when the votes are truly anonymous. Knowing what your friends will vote and voting as a group makes a mockery of the idea of democracy itself, which is to use your own individual judgement for the good of everybody.
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I laugh at this country and their politicians with their fucked up values. How is it that a country full of such great friendly people can be so heartless and ignorant when it comes to politics?
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On January 25 2011 18:03 RJGooner wrote:
You guys need to understand that this was a campaign promise. They told the people who voted for them that they would try to repeal it and they are.
It clearly shows that a big chunk of americans are still in the selfish "every man for himself" mode in which they conquered the west 150 years ago. Might makes right and obviously a gun will solve every problem ... The welfare of "their fellow man" is never on their mind and it shows in treating the poor, the weak and those who live in another country and happen to be sitting on some oil.
I fear that one day in the future some radical will become president of the USA and be handed the suitcase with the command keys for all those nukes they still have.
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Well thank god my one and only hope of ever affording healthcare is now on the rocks. Thanks republicans!
In all honesty I don't think this will pass, especially not with filibuster reform not being passed yet.
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On January 25 2011 21:02 Kalpman wrote:
I laugh at this country and their politicians with their fucked up values. How is it that a country full of such great friendly people can be so heartless and ignorant when it comes to politics?
Because we're not that great, and we're superficially friendly. America is a festering boil, and the only thing that masks that is our high GDP and "glamerous" culture that we evangelize everywhere. Politicians are in a position to craft policy that shows where they truly stand on issues. Most of the time it's a big "fuck you" to one group or another.
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On January 25 2011 21:04 Rabiator wrote:
I fear that one day in the future some radical will become president of the USA and be handed the suitcase with the command keys for all those nukes they still have.
Palin 2012, You betcha!
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The Senate will not vote for the repeal and Obama will veto the bill. Nothing to worry about.
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On January 25 2011 18:03 RJGooner wrote:
You guys need to understand that this was a campaign promise. They told the people who voted for them that they would try to repeal it and they are. You may call it useless OP, but they have to start somewhere in repealing this awful bill. As for wasting taxpayers money, #1 they are doing work that people voted them in to do, and #2 what about the hundreds of billions this bill will add to the deficit? Maybe they should focus more on job creation right now, but honestly I support any attempt to repeal this legislation.
To piggyback on this post they are also preparing new legislation in place of it.
Face it. America wasn't ready for Obamacare.
On January 25 2011 22:25 Shiragaku wrote:
The Senate will not vote for the repeal and Obama will veto the bill. Nothing to worry about.
This too. It was a political show.
Unlike Democrats the Republicans want to make sure that their constituents felt like they were being listened to, regardless of what ends up happening in the Senate.
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Republicans being inhuman, sneaky, devlilish, egoistic and only care about their own fortune?! Blasmephy! I thought Republicans were just pure capitalists... oh wait those two are the same.
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Republicans are better at the whole "politics fiasco" than the democrats. I thought this was determined a long time ago.
Republicans vote together. Democrats actually vote according to their differing opinions. It's not that Republicans don't disagree, its just that they vote along party lines for political reasons.
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Tear it down and replace it with proper single payer.
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While it was symbolic.. That symbolism gives the Republicans a bit more justification for going and introducing a new bill... which Might pass the Senate. At the very least it allows them to putforward a unified debate position.. ie the House can agree on this version of healthcare.
And attempting to fullfill a camaign promise is good, ie.. the bill didn't pass but I voted for it.
As for secret ballots for legislators.. would you really want no one to know what their legislator voted for? (not to mention the other legislators would probably be able to find out)
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EPT
