NASA and the Private Sector - Page 29

On February 09 2013 10:12 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Looks like an after effect of a lighting strike.

On January 24 2013 15:21 BlackPanther wrote:


This is wrong. A entity in the private sector has a profit motive in order to receive any sort of investment. This means that anything that is at all risky (like trying to go to mars or set up a moon colony) will not be done by the private sector as there are easier and better ways to make money. There is also no evidence that private sector performs more efficiently than the government.

On February 27 2013 12:44 deadjawa wrote:


I hear/see this argument a lot. I've come to the conclusion that if you believe this, there is no argument I could make to change your opinion. I will say, though, that having worked for NASA, for the government, and for private companies its quite clear that government is less efficient than private industries. Especially when it comes to exploration. Its not that people that work in government are bad people, they just make worse decisions because of politics.

On February 27 2013 12:44 deadjawa wrote:


I hear/see this argument a lot. I've come to the conclusion that if you believe this, there is no argument I could make to change your opinion. I will say, though, that having worked for NASA, for the government, and for private companies its quite clear that government is less efficient than private industries. Especially when it comes to exploration. Its not that people that work in government are bad people, they just make worse decisions because of politics.

If Dennis Tito has his way, two people will leave our planet in January 2018 and make a trip to Mars and back. Tito will be footing much of the bill himself. This mission won't stop at Mars, but rather, will do a quick flyby.

Unlike the spate of space commerce companies that have flashed on and off the news in recent months, this effort has substantial cash behind it - at the onset. Also, unlike these previously announced efforts, this is not being done by a company that needs to eventually return a profit to its investors. Instead, it is being spearheaded by a non-profit organization, the Inspiration Mars Foundation.

Tito's mission will be facilitated by donors - not investors. And no, he will not be part of the crew.

Indeed, the intent of this mission, as contained in a media advisory is as follows: "This "Mission for America" will generate new knowledge, experience and momentum for the next great era of space exploration. It is intended to encourage all Americans to believe again, in doing the hard things that make our nation great, while inspiring youth through Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (STEM) education and motivation."

Intents and funding aside, this is a space mission first and foremost. And space missions are still somewhat complicated (e.g. expensive) to do - especially ones that involve humans.

The closest that the spacecraft would get to Mars would be ~100 km - and the crew would only spend 10 hours within that distance of the planet - with closest approach on the night side. Not too different than the first human mission to the Moon when all things are taken into account

Upon return, the Dragon capsule would use Earth's atmosphere to slow down via aerobraking. This has never been done with a human mission before. Ten days after aerobraking the Dragon capsule would return again to Earth and reenter at 14.2 km/sec. This would be the fastest reentry by any crewed spacecraft - ever. As such, this mission will require some advanced Thermal Protection System research. To that end Paragon/Inspiration Mars have already signed a reimbursable Space Act Agreement with NASA Ames Research Center. A check for $100,000 has already been presented to NASA to begin this work.

Since this IEE paper began to circulated, the Inspiration Mars Foundation has started to look at other mission concepts using different spacecraft and launch vehicles. As with the IEEE paper, the focus has been to use things that either exist or are expected to become available in the next several years.

The Dragon-based mission concept would require rather cramped quarters. Indeed the paper says: "The ECLSS was assumed to meet only basic human needs to support metabolic requirements of two 70 kg men, with a nominal metabolic rate of 11.82 MJ/d. Crew comfort is limited to survival needs only. For example, sponge baths are acceptable, with no need for showers ... Personal provisions are limited to items such as clothing and hygiene products."

In the weeks after this paper was submitted, Inspiration Mars has been looking at other concepts including an inflatable module placed at the nose of the crew capsule - something similar to what Bigelow Aerospace will be putting on the International Space Station (ISS). In order to limit use of internal volume, the mission concept also does away with all EVA provisions (spacesuits etc). This means that there is no way to fix things - or install things outside of the spacecraft - thus requiring all systems to be serviceable from inside the spacecraft. If this no-EVA approach is taken, then adding inflatable modules to the front of the crew capsule becomes problematic. Regardless of the final design they adopt, mass limitations are likely to force that final design to be rather cramped.

The initial SpaceX hardware concept uses only one launch. Adopting a mission that uses more than one launch increases cost and complexity. But that's nothing new. How much will it cost? Who knows. They have not settled on a mission architecture yet - but this will probably be in the hundreds of millions/half billion dollar range by the time it is all figured out. Again, unlike all the other space projects that have sprouted of late, Tito is a very wealthy man and is prepared to write some rather large checks. That fact alone moves this idea from giggle factor to the verge of credibility. Tito can afford to spend significant sums to figure this out. But, given the calendar aspects of his mission, he does not have time on his side.

Given the compressed schedule, assuming a launch in January 2018, one would assume that the mission design would need to be done very quickly and completed certainly no later than a year from now. Launch vehicle selection would likely need to be done in a similarly prompt time frame. Whatever rocket(s) are chosen, they need to be ordered and built. Unlike many missions, these trajectories have constrained launch windows that don't lend themselves to delays. As such development time will be highly compressed.

Asked about a timeline for docking at the station, SpaceX CEO Elon Musk said, “We’re definitely not going to rush it.”

Musk said the SpaceX team thinks they have fixed the problem. “If that’s the case, it’s certainly going to be a huge relief,” he said.

“It was a little frightening there,” Musk admitted.

ISS chief Mike Suffredini said not to rule out a berthing opportunity at the International Space Station on Sunday if all looks good.

Shortly after the briefing concluded, engineers reported all four sets of thrusters were back on line and that testing was underway to verify the health of the system. But it appeared unlikely the Dragon could reach the outpost before Sunday at the earliest.

Space station Commander Kevin Ford took the delay in stride, telling a NASA flight controller: "That's space exploration for you."

"We sometimes have problems and work through them, and that's how you learn," he said. "If not tomorrow, maybe a couple of days down the road we'll get it licked."

The Dragon cargo ship's Falcon 9 rocket, also built by Space Exploration Technologies, roared to life at 10:10 a.m. ET, kicking off the second in a series of at least 12 commercial space station resupply missions under a $1.6 billion contract with NASA.

Trailing a torrent of flame from its nine Merlin 1C engines, the 157-foot-tall rocket majestically climbed away from the Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, launching almost directly into the plane of the space station's orbit onto a trajectory paralleling the East Coast of the United States.

Tonight at 11:00pm Pacific / 2:00am Eastern, Dragon will begin its final approach to the space station, passing a series of GO/NO-GO points determined by both Mission Control in Houston and the SpaceX team in Hawthorne. At approximately 3:30am Pacific / 6:30am Eastern, astronauts Kevin Ford and Tom Marshburn will use the station’s robotic arm to grab Dragon.