1419: The New York Times reports that the South Korean Deputy Minister of Defence, Lee Yong-geul, has now acknowledged that artillery units were firing test shots on Tuesday afternoon close to the North Korean coast, from a battery on the South Korean island of Paeknyeongdo. But he denied that the shots crossed the disputed maritime border with North Korea.
Here is the important line. "But he denied that the shots crossed the disputed maritime border with North Korea."
But I am sure NK see that location as their own land.
As someone mentioned earlier. Both side are lying
So when your neighbor shoots into the tree between your house and his house you should response by shooting directly into the room of his kids ?
The problem is, you think: I am shooting at my tree. they think: They are shooting my tree.
That is not qualified for shooting at anyone's kids. Why not shooting at the tree too ?
Seriously, they shot at a village, a civilian target. That's what make them wrong, there is no counter argument for that.
The issue of right or wrong isn't in dispute. The consensus feeling among the civilized world is that continued existence of the state of North Korea is a crime against humanity.
A war is too risky. It has to be avoided. Never has so many nuclear powers been involved in a possible dispute. The problem here is NKR unpredictability.
I wonder: as SKR is at the highest military alert, wouldn't some of the older GSL players maby have to mobilize if more happens(?). Seoul is really close to the point of attack. 25.000 US soldiers are already there.
On November 24 2010 00:28 Consolidate wrote: The issue of right or wrong isn't in dispute. The consensus feeling among the civilized world is that continued existence of the state of North Korea is a crime against humanity.
If they had oil deposits there's no doubt they would receive their doze of Democracy long ago, like Iraq and Afghanistan did. But luckily for them the outcome of this operation won't cover the expenses of the civilized world.
All this talk about war is nonsense, it does not take a genius to figure out that in this day in age war solves nothing and can only make things worse. I doubt there was a a single war in modern history that has ever solved anything, all it did was cause suffering and death, the only people who thrive through war are the large corporate men who make big bucks through weapons trade and other various contracts from the government.
Thoughts of the US and China getting involved in a full scale war is just ridiculous, why on earth would 2 superpowers want to fight each other and lose everything. A proper analogy would probably be poker, the 2 largest stack on a poker table would NEVER want to go head to head, it's too much of a risk.
don't know if anyone posted it yet, if so i'm sorry.
"South Korean President Lee Myung Bak has threatened the communist North after the artillery attack to the island of Yeonpyeong with retaliation. If Pyongyang attackes again, it will lead to a "massive retaliation", the head of state said on Tuesday.
Earlier, North Korea threatened more attacks, should South Korean soldiers violate the border. Problem is that the sea border is disputed. Pyongyang could therefore already be talking about a border violation, if South Korean ships remain in the maritime area, which was awarded by the United Nations to South Korea."
On November 24 2010 00:30 oRacLeGosu wrote: A war is too risky. It has to be avoided.
I wonder: as SK is at the highest military alert, wouldn't some of the older GSL players maby have to mobilize if more happens(?). Seoul is really close to the point of attack. 25.000 US soldiers are already there.
Well, if the war starts then i don't see why wouldn't the older guys join there. But right know i doubt it is necessary.
On November 24 2010 00:30 oRacLeGosu wrote: A war is too risky. It has to be avoided.
I wonder: as SK is at the highest military alert, wouldn't some of the older GSL players maby have to mobilize if more happens(?). Seoul is really close to the point of attack. 25.000 US soldiers are already there.
Possibly have received word to be recalled immediatly in the event of a full on war. I would not doubt if that this possibility may leave some of the older GSL competators to slip.
I would also go far to say is that many of Team Liquid, EG, and other foreign teams, are quickly getting ready to get the hell out of Korea if it blows into full scale war.
On November 24 2010 00:27 Scorch wrote: SK holding a military maneuver within visual range to NK wasn't the smartest thing to do if the neighbor is erratic and quick to anger. They gave the North an "excuse" to open fire. NK's reaction was certainly disproportionate, but to say it was completely unprovoked would be incorrect.
Recent public opinion in South Korea has seen a shift toward favoring a hard-line stance against North Korea. The South Korean government has pretty much recognized the ineffectiveness of their decade-long 'Sunshine Policy' as a deterrence against North Korean aggression.
From what I understand, this particular military exercise is one that is held yearly and its discontinuation would be viewed as a sign of weakness.
"1524: The UK's permanent representative to the United Nations, Sir Mark Lyall Grant, says there will be no meeting of the UN Security Council in New York on Tuesday. "No meeting has been requested," he is quoted as saying by the AFP news agency, apparently contradicting earlier comments by a French diplomat."
For better or worse, this whole incident will probably blow over.
On November 24 2010 00:27 Scorch wrote: SK holding a military maneuver within visual range to NK wasn't the smartest thing to do if the neighbor is erratic and quick to anger. They gave the North an "excuse" to open fire. NK's reaction was certainly disproportionate, but to say it was completely unprovoked would be incorrect.
Recent public opinion in South Korea has seen a shift toward favoring a hard-line stance against North Korea. The South Korean government has pretty much recognized the ineffectiveness of their decade-long 'Sunshine Policy' as a deterrence against North Korean aggression.
From what I understand, this particular military exercise is one that is held yearly and its discontinuation would be viewed as a sign of weakness.
Not sure if it's yearly, but you have the basic idea down.
@Scorch: NK knew that it was a drill beforehand. Thus, the "excuse" doesn't make sense at all; they knew what was going on.
On November 23 2010 16:04 stevarius wrote: For the sake of humanity can someone in this world disable North Korea's military capabilities?
Sadly china supports north korea...and since the US and many European countries are in debt to china, nobody will touch them.
This can turn out to be horrifying, china supporting north korea and the US supporting the south...it´s gonna be really interesting to see if the US will actually have the balls to support south korea cause we know for sure that china will support the other side. How will that turn out? World at war probably.
I mean we know for a fact that if the US and China go to war because of this, which might actually happen, then europe will support the US. What about all the other asian countries? Will they show China support or the western countries? I think Japan will show the western countries support..but there are many others.
Communism vs Capitalism all over again..
Wtf are you talking about. China would NEVER support North Korea in a war. They don't want North Korea in a war, they don't want to get into a war, they just don't want to see North Korea FALL. Personally, I'd be willing to bet they'd still sooner let NK fall than risk any economic repercussions. It's not like China isn't experiencing the strongest economic growth in the world at the moment.
Relations between the two countries (NK and China) are already extremely tense with China not approving of any of the threats NK makes. China dislikes the unpredictability of its neighbor, it just prefers it to further US spheres of influence in the region.
Once again, China would NEVER go to war for NK.
hehe I was maybe being a little bit dramatic, just trying to picture a worst case scenario.
On November 24 2010 00:27 Scorch wrote: SK holding a military maneuver within visual range to NK wasn't the smartest thing to do if the neighbor is erratic and quick to anger. They gave the North an "excuse" to open fire. NK's reaction was certainly disproportionate, but to say it was completely unprovoked would be incorrect.
Recent public opinion in South Korea has seen a shift toward favoring a hard-line stance against North Korea. The South Korean government has pretty much recognized the ineffectiveness of their decade-long 'Sunshine Policy' as a deterrence against North Korean aggression.
From what I understand, this particular military exercise is one that is held yearly and its discontinuation would be viewed as a sign of weakness.
I can understand the last point, but is it really necessary to conduct the exercise in immediate proximity to the border? Both sides don't even agree where the border is. Also, NK threatened SK beforehand not to do its exercise. Doing things a bit more in the south might have prevented this incident from happening.
wow this is scary... makes me think of all those times playing an assassin in a video game to kill some important figure that is committing genocide/starting a war. Where are those assassins now? :/
"US defence department spokesman Col David Lapan says no additional US military assets would be moved into the region following Tuesday's incident in South Korea. It is also "too soon" to discuss ways the US might deter North Korea from another attacks, he adds"
On November 24 2010 00:43 Whole wrote: "US defence department spokesman Col David Lapan says no additional US military assets would be moved into the region following Tuesday's incident in South Korea. It is also "too soon" to discuss ways the US might deter North Korea from another attacks, he adds"
On November 24 2010 00:27 Scorch wrote: SK holding a military maneuver within visual range to NK wasn't the smartest thing to do if the neighbor is erratic and quick to anger. They gave the North an "excuse" to open fire. NK's reaction was certainly disproportionate, but to say it was completely unprovoked would be incorrect.
Recent public opinion in South Korea has seen a shift toward favoring a hard-line stance against North Korea. The South Korean government has pretty much recognized the ineffectiveness of their decade-long 'Sunshine Policy' as a deterrence against North Korean aggression.
From what I understand, this particular military exercise is one that is held yearly and its discontinuation would be viewed as a sign of weakness.
I can understand the last point, but is it really necessary to conduct the exercise in immediate proximity to the border? Both sides don't even agree where the border is. Also, NK threatened SK beforehand not to do its exercise. Doing things a bit more in the south might have prevented this incident from happening.
SK has done the same drills in the past. In the same location. Under same situations.
On November 24 2010 00:28 Consolidate wrote: The issue of right or wrong isn't in dispute. The consensus feeling among the civilized world is that continued existence of the state of North Korea is a crime against humanity.
If they had oil deposits there's no doubt they would receive their doze of Democracy long ago, like Iraq and Afghanistan did. But luckily for them the outcome of this operation won't cover the expenses of the civilized world.
The reason why N.K is allowed to exist is China. China gets a massive amount of its Coal and Silicon from North Korea, and when North Korea has this regime in power it is very easy for China to get those resources for its growing economy.
Think of Civilization, if you have played it. When a city-state has a resources you need say, aluminum(in this case silicon) you just toss them a bunch of shitty low tech units (in this case artillery) and some gold and they hand that silicon, I mean aluminum, right over on a silver platter.
Then comes the city-state alerts:
"North Korea has a dispute with South Korea and seeks immediate Military action!"-"North Korea has a dispute with South Korea and seeks immediate Military action!"-"North Korea has a dispute with South Korea and seeks immediate Military action!"
China can ignore the messages for a long time, but after awhile China's will have to do something either giving N.Korea more gold and military units, or they will have to give in to the demand, or else they can't get that precious ALUMINUM mmm...
Unfortunately this is the real-world and not Civ(in Civ city-states don't attack one-another. In the real world fucked up regimes do what they want until the rest of the world stops them).
This factor along with the free-world governments having terrible economic macro and not being able stabilize the financial issues quickly enough could lead to a very horrible situation in the Korean peninsula.
My heart definitely goes out to anyone in or with loved ones in this ongoing crisis. <3
Even tho the Chinese goverment supports NKorea they stated that they are not happy with that sudden attack on Skorea. China is much more interrested in economics than fighting a war against the western world.
On November 24 2010 00:43 Whole wrote: "US defence department spokesman Col David Lapan says no additional US military assets would be moved into the region following Tuesday's incident in South Korea. It is also "too soon" to discuss ways the US might deter North Korea from another attacks, he adds"
EPT
