EPTPedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure - Page 7
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itzme_petey
United States1400 Posts
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Blobskillz
Germany548 Posts
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XeliN
United Kingdom1755 Posts
On November 11 2010 08:45 ZapRoffo wrote: "...that will one day be revealed as a practice or idea that has value to everyone" In you last you seem to have changed that to "reasonable people" What is a reasonable person? one who conforms or agree's with your own personal, subjective and unsubstantiated view on what is good, valuable, benefical and normal? :S | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On November 11 2010 08:48 ZapRoffo wrote: I never said universally valuable, I just say can be construed in some way to have some value that reasonable people can recognize (very broad). I'm sure pedophiles will find this book useful, hence serving a "value" in society. If that doesn't help you sleep at night, think on how the book might generate attention which then leads to increased interest in the kindle, which then leads to a boom in the e-book industry and causes literacy and reading to go up in the USA. Trying to determine censorship using usefulness is an inane exercise. I don't understand how you are still failing to see this. "Value" is an individual perception. It's not a tangible characteristic you can assess. | ||
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Sandrosuperstar
Sweden525 Posts
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Krigwin
1130 Posts
On November 11 2010 08:45 _Darwin_ wrote: I'm sorry to disappoint, but there are already limits on "free" speech. The prominent example is that you cannot yell "fire" in a crowded building. If you shout fire in a crowded theater you get charged with potentially causing harm, which is a different offense from saying something disagreeable. On November 11 2010 08:45 VIB wrote: Read the book samples I updated the first post with. + Show Spoiler + Looks like how to avoid getting charged for having child pornography, not how to avoid getting caught for actually having intercourse with a child. This seems like a very interesting book though, I wouldn't mind someone actually reading this and revealing the contents in its entirety. | ||
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XeliN
United Kingdom1755 Posts
Is someone ardently against the slave trade on moral grounds deemed "unreasonable" because at the time their view directly conflicted with "society's" view? (I'm trying to pre-empt how I suspect you might try to define "reasonable" to show you how it doesnt work) ^^ | ||
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lac29
United States1485 Posts
There have been some terrible comparisons made in this thread ... this isn't like Darwin or some post-Nazi thing ... those were opinions and opinions are fine and dandy. But to me, this how-to guide crosses the line from opinion to something that everyone knows is wrong universally. This might not be the best comparison ... but to me, it's like what they say about porn ... you know it when you see it. Well I know that I wouldn't allow this to be published from what I see. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
General knowledge is public domain. It's free, it belongs to everyone. Should it be illegal for one person to come up with scenarios that would help a pedophile get away with shit in a conversation with another person? Yes or No? Should it be illegal for this conversation to be on a webpage? Should someone be deciding what is and what isn't acceptable knowledge to be put on the internet? Yes or No? Should it be illegal for it be in a book, knowledge that could be gotten by other means anyways, that belongs to no one but anyone could find if they looked for. Should that be illegal? yesss or nooooo? If you said no to any of these but said yes to any other, could you please explain why? | ||
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RaFeStaR
United States161 Posts
On November 11 2010 08:49 pfods wrote: no by fascist i mean someone who thinks they know what should and should not be censored based upon their little cry baby sensibilities. if you're worried about your child being raped, keep a better eye on them. this book certainly isn't going to be the cause. Arguing with you is making me more retarded by the minute. You just don't get it. Come back to me when you have children yourself. | ||
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Befree
695 Posts
The U.S. appeals court ruled 3-0 that Hit Man was not protected by the free speech/free press clause of the First Amendment and so the publisher could be held liable for a triple murder committed by one of its readers. This was their conclusion: + Show Spoiler + "In at least these circumstances, we are confident that the First Amendment does not erect the absolute bar to the imposition of civil liability for which Paladin Press and amici contend. Indeed, to hold that the First Amendment forbids liability in such circumstances as a matter of law would fly in the face of all precedent of which we are aware, not only from the courts of appeals but from the Supreme Court of the United States itself. Hit Man is, we are convinced, the speech that even Justice Douglas, with his unrivaled devotion to the First Amendment, counseled without any equivocation “should be beyond the pale” under a Constitution that reserves to the people the ultimate and necessary authority to adjudge some conduct-and even some speech-fundamentally incompatible with the liberties they have secured unto themselves." source: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-4th-circuit/1075132.html I see it is still on amazon.com, though. So if they're willing to sell books describing specifically how to murder someone and not get caught. I can't see them taking down a book on pedophiles. I hope my logging out worked on amazon! I share my account and they always do those "you recently viewed these:" things. "Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure" and "Hit Man: A Technical Manual for Independent Contractors" on recently viewed items list could make for an awkward conversation. | ||
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ggrrg
Bulgaria2716 Posts
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No_Roo
United States905 Posts
On November 11 2010 08:50 itzme_petey wrote: Our freedom of speech is protected from the government. If amazon wants to stomp all over that book, they have full right to do so. Yes, and that is why the people in this thread in support of freedom of speech are applauding amazon for also protecting it unlike other companies that have chosen not too (for example comedy central recently. >  )If the government was stepping in and telling amazon to pull the book then it would be us pooping up a rage storm all over them. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
i mean can you openly sell a guide to arson, or murder, or whatever? i suppose it may not be strictly against the law, just seems like this is an abuse of free speech. | ||
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Adila
United States874 Posts
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Logarythm
United States264 Posts
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Krigwin
1130 Posts
On November 11 2010 08:56 ggrrg wrote: Free speech is universal, but incitement is criminal. The book should be banned, the author jailed and people who bought it registered. That is a thin line. Without having read this book, I can't say for certain, but it seems more like a how-to book rather than a book saying "you should go out and molest children". Educational material is very different from material intended for incitement. You'd have a better argument against Anarchist's Cookbook. | ||
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On November 11 2010 08:54 Befree wrote: Sounds like that case of "Hit Man: A Technical Manual for Independent Contractors." The U.S. appeals court ruled 3-0 that Hit Man was not protected by the free speech/free press clause of the First Amendment and so the publisher could be held liable for a triple murder committed by one of its readers. This was their conclusion: + Show Spoiler + "In at least these circumstances, we are confident that the First Amendment does not erect the absolute bar to the imposition of civil liability for which Paladin Press and amici contend. Indeed, to hold that the First Amendment forbids liability in such circumstances as a matter of law would fly in the face of all precedent of which we are aware, not only from the courts of appeals but from the Supreme Court of the United States itself. Hit Man is, we are convinced, the speech that even Justice Douglas, with his unrivaled devotion to the First Amendment, counseled without any equivocation “should be beyond the pale” under a Constitution that reserves to the people the ultimate and necessary authority to adjudge some conduct-and even some speech-fundamentally incompatible with the liberties they have secured unto themselves." source: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-4th-circuit/1075132.html I see it is still on amazon.com, though. So if they're willing to sell books describing specifically how to murder someone and not get caught. I can't see them taking down a book on pedophiles. I hope my logging out worked on amazon! I share my account and they always do those "you recently viewed these:" things. "Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure" and "Hit Man: A Technical Manual for Independent Contractors" on recently viewed items list could make for an awkward conversation. This is what i was talking about in one of my earlier posts. The moment this is read by a lawyer and presented as aiding peadophile to commit crimes and accordingly taken to court, judged to be aiding said crimes....and thus not protected by free speech..... bring down the ban hammer, and i'll back it up to the hilt. However, until this happens, it is covered by free speech. p.s just direct whoever find the history to this thread. | ||
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pfods
United States895 Posts
On November 11 2010 08:54 RaFeStaR wrote: Arguing with you is making me more retarded by the minute. You just don't get it. Come back to me when you have children yourself. your argument is based entirely on emotion." oh no i have kids so i'm going to be UBER protective and authoritarian". why does your having children effect what is and is not allowed in society? how can you possibly say that without laughing? protip: my niece lives three houses down from a convicted pedophile. i'm not worried about her getting raped because of some book someone decided to publish. | ||
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Firereaver
India1701 Posts
On November 11 2010 08:14 Kakera wrote: Obviously, since you misspelled it. Pedophilia used to be a time honored tradition back in the day, kids would feel honored to be picked as a servant for the upper class. Personally, I think child abuse and sex slavery are the biggest evils... Which is what you "think" pedophilia is. Not what it is but what it's been turned into. Just because extremes exist in this world doesn't mean people have a right to censor it. Lust can lead to very violent and despicable acts, but we don't go around censoring romance novels. Yeah, in your ivory tower it must be real easy to come up with differences in lexicon and ignore the real issue at hand. Free speech is fine but when it comes to ground realities, degeneration of society doesn't magically happen in a day. It happens when inch by inch morals are stretched till they become a monster noone can stop. And then when its too late to stop it, there'll still be people talking about whether or not child abuse is the same thing as pedophilia. P.S: Don't talk to me about time-honored traditions 'cos thats all I saw in the past 2 years and in any way if you are condoning it, as you seem to be by both the letter and intent of your post, I think you should come over for just a day and see what I have seen. | ||
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