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On November 09 2010 11:43 CommanderFluffy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 11:24 Ferrose wrote:On November 09 2010 11:21 CommanderFluffy wrote:On November 09 2010 11:13 Ferrose wrote:
I don't get the whole "being cool" or "belonging to a group" thing with young people. I'm an eighteen year old college kid, but I despise other people my age. I just want to play video games, and watch anime and sports. And I'm totally happy with my life as it is.
That is incredibly sad. Why is it sad? I dont' mean to derail thread, but cmon dude. You just want to play video games and watch cartoons while in college. I guess it's not fair for me to judge. It's your life to waste, not mine.
Well said. It is pretty sad, dude.
I think the real concern (rather than "being cool") is that social interaction with people around you is necessary. I mean, you're on this forum to glean hopefully some degree of social interaction (other than just learning about StarCraft...right?).
But yeah, I understand not wanting to "be cool" or whatever, but building relationships with people is kind of important. Just a little bit.
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On November 09 2010 11:43 CommanderFluffy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 11:24 Ferrose wrote:On November 09 2010 11:21 CommanderFluffy wrote:On November 09 2010 11:13 Ferrose wrote:
I don't get the whole "being cool" or "belonging to a group" thing with young people. I'm an eighteen year old college kid, but I despise other people my age. I just want to play video games, and watch anime and sports. And I'm totally happy with my life as it is.
That is incredibly sad. Why is it sad? I dont' mean to derail thread, but cmon dude. You just want to play video games and watch cartoons while in college. I guess it's not fair for me to judge. It's your life to waste, not mine.
"waste"?
you're wasting yours too. you're gonna die eventually. eventually everything you did becomes inconsequential. why would you say anything to anyone else about how they live their life. there's nothing wrong with someone doing the things they enjoy while they're in college.
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Most ppl here who defend hipsters ... I would bet money that they are hipsters themselves.
Edit: Ppl might have hipster music tastes ... but if they don't do the skinny jeans and black rimmed glasses and the whole package ... I don't count them as real hipsters. You have to have the whole hipster package to be called a hipster imo.
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On November 09 2010 11:49 Centric wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 11:43 CommanderFluffy wrote:On November 09 2010 11:24 Ferrose wrote:On November 09 2010 11:21 CommanderFluffy wrote:On November 09 2010 11:13 Ferrose wrote:
I don't get the whole "being cool" or "belonging to a group" thing with young people. I'm an eighteen year old college kid, but I despise other people my age. I just want to play video games, and watch anime and sports. And I'm totally happy with my life as it is.
That is incredibly sad. Why is it sad? I dont' mean to derail thread, but cmon dude. You just want to play video games and watch cartoons while in college. I guess it's not fair for me to judge. It's your life to waste, not mine. Well said. It is pretty sad, dude. I think the real concern (rather than "being cool") is that social interaction with people around you is necessary. I mean, you're on this forum to glean hopefully some degree of social interaction (other than just learning about StarCraft...right?). But yeah, I understand not wanting to "be cool" or whatever, but building relationships with people is kind of important. Just a little bit.
Yep, I'm a completely antisocial shut-in who has no friends, and doesn't ever talk to anyone outside of TL.net.
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This article makes a mountain out of a molehill.
All cultures throughout time have equivalent youth culture activities. Its nothing new. What surprises me is how people are so shocked that young people are dressing up and acting goofy. Thats been going on for forever. Its not like being off the wall is some kind of thing they came up with a week ago. Its old as dirt. Hipsters are actually somewhat behind the times if you look at it from certain perspectives. If you are just now "becoming a hipster" then you are arriving quite late to the party.
Another thing that sort of bothers me is that there are people who just have strange taste. And they might grow up in a town with only 500 people and be the only weird one. And then one day a similar look comes to the mall and its given a name like "hipster", and now that person who spent years in personal anguish over being so different is now just lumped in with all the cliche "hipsters". Meanwhile, that person was only doing what they always have done, and following their own personal taste and heart. Its kinda of a shame to see a kaleidoscope of human beings made into a singular group and its most obvious traits mocked and labeled.
I say, embrace the hipsters. Why? Because they really are just the same old human fears and emotions and doubts. They arent really any different than normal people. In fact, its probably alot of fear and doubt that fuels such a narrow social identity. Besides, i know a TON of these kinds of people and really they are harmless. There are people here saying that those excluded from their hipster click are jealous... there is nothing to be jealous of. Ive witnessed these peoples lives and they arent all smiles and chic irony. In fact, most of them have minimal creative skills and lack any kind of abstract vision other than the ones predetermined by the current style they see all around them. You gotta remember that for every genuinely odd person in their group, there are 500 that are just normal people playing along so that they can have some place to feel like they belong. And instead of mocking that weakness, maybe its better to just let them play out their life how they want. In time, everyone drops their act.
Im somewhat bothered by the guy saying that modern young people are more hip and connected. I dont think being able to tweet your bowel movements counts as being hip. Nothing makes me more ill than when people confuse circumstance with substance. Yeah, modern people have alot of tricks thanks to technology, but that doesnt mean they are any more aware or capable. In fact, limitations usually spawn the best results. If young people really had something figured out these days, then where is the modern Pink Floyd? Where is the modern Beatles? Are there even any great movies or music coming out? Hardly. Its very very rare that culture spawns genius these days. Youd think that a bunch of super hip happy free thinkers would have some ideas but they actually seem to have less ideas than the 60s generation did, or even the early 90s generation. People need to stop confusing capability with actual content. Yeah, modern people have the world at their fingertips, but then how come so much of whats being created is weak drivel?
Remember not to give credit where it isnt due and remember that appearance isnt everything. All the greatest most unique and hip people ive ever known were rarely ever the ones who wore the costume that fooled everyone into thinking they were. Action matters, content matters. Fashion is what you bust out when you dont have any good ideas and need to cheat.
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On November 09 2010 11:49 dNo_O wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 11:43 CommanderFluffy wrote:On November 09 2010 11:24 Ferrose wrote:On November 09 2010 11:21 CommanderFluffy wrote:On November 09 2010 11:13 Ferrose wrote:
I don't get the whole "being cool" or "belonging to a group" thing with young people. I'm an eighteen year old college kid, but I despise other people my age. I just want to play video games, and watch anime and sports. And I'm totally happy with my life as it is.
That is incredibly sad. Why is it sad? I dont' mean to derail thread, but cmon dude. You just want to play video games and watch cartoons while in college. I guess it's not fair for me to judge. It's your life to waste, not mine. "waste"? you're wasting yours too. you're gonna die eventually. eventually everything you did becomes inconsequential. why would you say anything to anyone else about how they live their life. there's nothing wrong with someone doing the things they enjoy while they're in college.
You're right. People should be able to do whatever they enjoy while in college. If that means become a hipster that hates everything popular, thats ok too.
But i believe the college experience is a social experience, one that cannot be found anywhere else in society. For most people it's an awesome four years where you really expand your social network. For others.. Well i guess it's one's choice to exclude oneself from that.
You can play video games, watch cartoons, whenever, they will never disappear. But one's college experience only comes and goes once.
I'm going to stop derailing this thread. If you want to flame, PM me.
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Whats wrong with hipsters... around here there aren't alot unless i really stupid. And hipsters are just like a fad if i'm correct. People involved in Esports like us could be considered hipsters.
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Nobody admits to being a hipster. But anyone will admit there are hipsters.
And I see it more as a mindset than a rigid subculture, like I remember hearing the term years ago already, even if not nearly as widespread as now and a bit different guys on surface, but refering to same type of people. People who strive to be hip/cool as much as possible.
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On November 09 2010 12:04 Mellotron wrote:
This article makes a mountain out of a molehill.
All cultures throughout time have equivalent youth culture activities. Its nothing new. What surprises me is how people are so shocked that young people are dressing up and acting goofy. Thats been going on for forever. Its not like being off the wall is some kind of thing they came up with a week ago. Its old as dirt. Hipsters are actually somewhat behind the times if you look at it from certain perspectives. If you are just now "becoming a hipster" then you are arriving quite late to the party. No there hasnt been much youth culture of the current form for too long, starting around 40 or 50s. People just moved from children to adults too fast before then. Sure you had people who can be called youths but they didnt form such strong subcultures.
Im somewhat bothered by the guy saying that modern young people are more hip and connected. I dont think being able to tweet your bowel movements counts as being hip. Nothing makes me more ill than when people confuse circumstance with substance. Yeah, modern people have alot of tricks thanks to technology, but that doesnt mean they are any more aware or capable. In fact, limitations usually spawn the best results. If young people really had something figured out these days, then where is the modern Pink Floyd? Where is the modern Beatles? Are there even any great movies or music coming out? Hardly. Its very very rare that culture spawns genius these days. Youd think that a bunch of super hip happy free thinkers would have some ideas but they actually seem to have less ideas than the 60s generation did, or even the early 90s generation. People need to stop confusing capability with actual content. Yeah, modern people have the world at their fingertips, but then how come so much of whats being created is weak drivel?
There won't be a new Beatles in the current cultural state, it's just too fragmented field. That's not about musical quality but just too hard to get all these different niche subcultures to all like 1 and the same thing.
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Yo guys I'm a hipster. I smoke cigs, wear skinny jeans, hang out with a bunch of people wearing flannel and floral print dresses, listen to obscure music (preferably stuff pitchfork.com hasn't reviewed), take art history and media classes, and make fun of jocks for being clueless and uncool.
Background to make me a person (i.e. acceptably nerdy), and not just a target for flames.
+ Show Spoiler +
I identify as a hipster because to the vast majority of people I am one. I'm situated in a liberal arts college context where it's impossible not to be self-aware, and self-awareness dictates that I recognize that people would interpret my social situation and fashion signifiers as belonging to the hipster category.
At the same time, I'm nerdy as all hell. I'm majoring in computer science and read xkcd. I spend every summer playing JRPGs, and most of the time I spend in my dorm room revolves around visiting TL and watching Magic: The Gathering draft videos. I had like two close friends in high school. I got called gay a lot because I was too shy to hit on girls and started wearing skinny jeans and the occasional pink shirt when my older brother introduced me to "alt music" (lol, back when The Arcade Fire had a shred of cred).
Over time, I got hipper. Recently, my friends and I made amends with the rival hipster group in my grade, who resented us because they thought we thought we were cooler than them (which was, to some extent true -- we were better connected with older kids and were more current in our valuation of various trends). The point is, I wanted to be cool, and did it. But I'm still nerdy, and ultimately that's ok because I'll admit to it, and make it look like a self-aware and ironic statement by doing so. Protip: Admit to your nerdy tendencies without being ashamed of them. It makes it seem like you're confident that they're actually cool, even if they really aren't.
A quick point I want to make is that many of the hipsters I know are actually not that heavily into irony, but tired of it. They (and I) get really into some admittedly vapid shit because everyone needs to feel passionate about something, and there aren't many options to be original and creative.
However, whenever I read articles about hipsters or hear characterizations of them, I'm always a bit bothered by them not factually representing what is actually relevant to today's in-the-know hipster. There's that guy JWD who posts the roman numeral blogs, and while he has a good eye for classic fashion and cuts, his musical taste (which I personally don't have any problem with) is far too mainstream and outdated for a self-respecting hipster to advertise to others. Since the TL community seems somewhat under-informed, I figured I'd present a handy (if likely biased towards my geographical area and understanding of what is hip) cheat sheet on what's actually hip of the general stereotypes, and good reference points for the nerd who might want to be hipper than he is:
1. PBR: Not really trendy anymore. Miller High Life was the on-trend beer over the summer and into this fall, but is starting to fall out favor. Four Loko is obviously the biggest trend in drinking right now, but it has lost validity since coming so heavily into the media and general consciousness. Of course, Four Loko is still a solid choice and an interesting experience, but definitely not bleeding edge anymore. Viable options to explore are Bum Wines (Cisco, MD 20/20, Nighttrain) as a natural extension of Four Loko's get-you-trashed qualities, and Budweiser as an arbitrary but not actually good beer to drink.
2. Fixies: Definitely more than a year out of trend. Sure, you can still ride one, and you wont get criticized for conduct unbecoming a hipster, but bikes are really more reserved for people who actually like bikes. Skateboarding remains a viable transportation option, and is growing trendier in my estimation, but requires a strong investment into actually being able to skate (like trix and stuff too).
3. Skinny jeans: Yea everyone still wears skinny jeans. Cuffing your pants (rolling the bottom up) is however moving out of style.
4. Flannel: Definitely coming out of style, but still wearable. Hipster fashion in general is moving away from the super flamboyant (looking like you're from L.A. is not cool on the East Coast any longer) and towards a more understated look, with drab colors but excellent fit being the goal. This is why cuffing isn't cool-it suggests your pants don't fit well.
5. Converse: I don't see how converse are specific to hipsters, since tons of people wear them and punks and other subcultures do too. The more important trend was to wear leather/dress shoes and
desert boots, but since those got too popular sneakers (like Vans) are coming into style.
6. Ironic t-shirts: Graphic t-shirts are not super stylish any more at all. Old, raggedy thrift store tees are cool, but only because they look faded and drape nicely on your body. The exaggerated statement of an ironic t-shirt is too L.A. to be cool right now, unless the irony is next-level good or somewhat sincere (e.g. my Mariah Carey concert t-shirt works because it looks super ridiculous and because I actually dig Mariah Carey chopped & screwed). A random TMNT shirt is boring and outdated in today's hipsterdom. Also, wolf t-shirts aren't cool anymore.
So there's a quick list of the most iconic things. I hope someone will read it and understand that a) their stereotypes are out of date and b) it really is more about the fun of being up to date on trends than the actual trend.
Edit: scott pilgrim hip wut lol
also a dude asked if hipsters are northern. It's mostly coastal, collegiate, and Northeastern.
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On November 09 2010 12:04 Mellotron wrote:
This article makes a mountain out of a molehill.
I would actually argue that this article is trying to make a molehill out of a mountain. To me, this guy is saying "Hey all you people who are saying hipsters are an omen of society's downfall - go suck it cuz they just wanna have fun."
On November 09 2010 12:04 Mellotron wrote:
All cultures throughout time have equivalent youth culture activities. Its nothing new. What surprises me is how people are so shocked that young people are dressing up and acting goofy. Thats been going on for forever. Its not like being off the wall is some kind of thing they came up with a week ago. Its old as dirt. Hipsters are actually somewhat behind the times if you look at it from certain perspectives. If you are just now "becoming a hipster" then you are arriving quite late to the party.
People (particularly the older people who this article is aimed at) make a big deal out of it because they're reacting to something that's an integral part of (western) youth culture: rebelling against the norm. Being off the wall has always been around, but the great (and, to many, awful) thing about youth culture is that young people are always finding new ways to do it and shock the older generation. The article looks at exactly how the hipsters are different from previous versions of youth (counter)culture - it's not saying that no young people have ever shocked anyone until the hipsters came around.
On November 09 2010 12:04 Mellotron wrote:
I say, embrace the hipsters. Why? Because they really are just the same old human fears and emotions and doubts. They arent really any different than normal people. In fact, its probably alot of fear and doubt that fuels such a narrow social identity. Besides, i know a TON of these kinds of people and really they are harmless. There are people here saying that those excluded from their hipster click are jealous... there is nothing to be jealous of. Ive witnessed these peoples lives and they arent all smiles and chic irony. In fact, most of them have minimal creative skills and lack any kind of abstract vision other than the ones predetermined by the current style they see all around them. You gotta remember that for every genuinely odd person in their group, there are 500 that are just normal people playing along so that they can have some place to feel like they belong. And instead of mocking that weakness, maybe its better to just let them play out their life how they want. In time, everyone drops their act.
I'd argue that there's plenty to be jealous of - they're getting a TON of media attention. And I think you're right - the fear and doubt does fuel the narrow social identity. However, in this case it's the old people (and "uncool people") who are expressing the fear and doubt, which is a bonafide way to make more kids embrace hipsterdom, because that's what youth counterculture is about (according to McInnes).
On November 09 2010 12:04 Mellotron wrote:
Im somewhat bothered by the guy saying that modern young people are more hip and connected. I dont think being able to tweet your bowel movements counts as being hip. Nothing makes me more ill than when people confuse circumstance with substance. Yeah, modern people have alot of tricks thanks to technology, but that doesnt mean they are any more aware or capable. In fact, limitations usually spawn the best results. If young people really had something figured out these days, then where is the modern Pink Floyd? Where is the modern Beatles? Are there even any great movies or music coming out? Hardly. Its very very rare that culture spawns genius these days. Youd think that a bunch of super hip happy free thinkers would have some ideas but they actually seem to have less ideas than the 60s generation did, or even the early 90s generation. People need to stop confusing capability with actual content. Yeah, modern people have the world at their fingertips, but then how come so much of whats being created is weak drivel?
You might not think that being able to tweet stupid stuff is hip, but that's because you know twitter well and understand that it's not some kind of magic bullet for being cool. There are a ton of people out there who don't understand twitter and, therefore, fear it and doubt it, or think it's really hip.
I would argue that modern young people are more aware and, sometimes, capable than their/our predecessors. With technology, I can know about all kinds of interesting or scandalous or boring current events at the click of a mouse. Having this kind of awareness capability is, I think, part of what makes hipsters so unique - they can incorporate styles or music tastes or whatever from more cultures, time periods, and sources in general than anyone (in general) could ever before.
Part of why I liked this article was that the title was a Pink Floyd reference. To answer your point, though, who's to say that there isn't an indie band out there that'll be the new Pink Floyd or Beatles? Who's to say that modern music or movies are worse than that which we've seen before? Modern movies are certainly better than old movies, in general - look at the way technology and modern film techniques have expanded cinematography and allowed film makers to create works that express unbelievably complex ideas with incredible clarity (the world of Avatar, for example, or the mind boggling situations of Inception). These are innovative works that would not have been possible even 10 years ago. Are they masterpieces of cinema in the grand scheme of things? Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell.
Look at the StarCraft eSports scene, even. It's not a hipster thing (yet, lol), but it would not be possible without the technology and expanded awareness of the modern era and modern young people.
On November 09 2010 12:04 Mellotron wrote:
Remember not to give credit where it isnt due and remember that appearance isnt everything. All the greatest most unique and hip people ive ever known were rarely ever the ones who wore the costume that fooled everyone into thinking they were. Action matters, content matters. Fashion is what you bust out when you dont have any good ideas and need to cheat.
I think McInnes would agree with you - hipsterdom, like youth culture in general, is 90% hot air, and he's saying we should recognize it as such.
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Look at the StarCraft eSports scene, even. It's not a hipster thing (yet, lol), but it would not be possible without the technology and expanded awareness of the modern era and modern young people.
I'm trying man.
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Cuticle - thank you very much for your hipster perspective ... I was really hoping to get something like that in the discussion for this article. And also thank you for your efforts in popularizing SC eSports among the hipsters.
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Yea man I think they're both really fun communities that could benefit from an open exchange of culture and perspective.
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screw getting esports popular in china, just get it popular among hipsters and we're golden
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All I got to say to this article is, trying to be cool for the sake of being cool has never been cool. All of these hipster indicators like indie music, film, whatever. The reason it's cool to do these things now is that cool people did it when it wasn't. It's cool to start trends, not to follow them.
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Basically I'm incredulous that this discussion exists. Who the fuck cares...?? But I had to read it because I'm addicted to the absurd and meaningless. This is not meant AT ALL to belittle the discussion or the participants; I just had to situate my post.
Cuticle, that is a hugely useful post. What an upright and cool thing.
Now, to my point. Does this actually matter to many people? Or do many people even realize it goes on? Literally, truly, I went around town the other day with a wool plaid shirt over a wolf t-shirt, and rolled up cuff jeans, and I had no idea these could be relevant fashion memes, especially in combination. They are just clothes. Am I wrong to assume most people feel this way...?
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Intro to the article that peanut did not post:
The reason I attend these talks is to tell everyone to shut the fuck up and as Nickelodeon says, “Let kids be kids.” There’s this notion that youth culture is irrelevant if it’s not dripping with liberal activism. I don’t want kids to get into politics. They’re stupid. I want them to stick with what they’re good at, which is basically just fucking. Youth culture is about music and fashion and both are inexorably linked to sex. To provide more analysis than that is to waste brain cells.
and... that's why we have youth violence and truancy. no wonder why people hate hipsters. it's cool to be degenerates and failures.
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OBEY
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/SE6Zu.png)
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hipsters look gay to me so, well....guess it takes a special kind of girl to find a guy cool who seems like a pussy o-O
geeks....and nerds...well i can get behind that as the coolest generation  !
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EPT
