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On November 05 2010 07:30 simme123 wrote:
Btw guys Europe isn't a country there's a lot that differs from country so stop putting us together.
The Scandinavian countries are very similar but there's still diffrences and comparing us to the 10 year old romanian and shit just shows that your knowledge of the world is very limited.
Go visit New York City or Los Angeles, and then go visit Salt Lake City. Then tell me if the stark contrast means we shouldn't talk about America as a whole.
And I'm not comparing Scandinavians to the poor 10-year old. I'm comparing Europeans to the, well, European responses that border on racism in that thread, which come from many different European countries.
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On November 05 2010 06:02 Scruffy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 05:58 trainRiderJ wrote:On November 05 2010 05:40 Scruffy wrote:
I prefer the American system of health care (pre-Obamacare). I am 24 years old. I have basic catastrophic coverage (train wreck insurance), that has high deductibles in the event (although highly unlikely) that I get very sick or hurt. I pay 80 USD a month, and it covers some of the costs of prescriptions. I pay 40 USD per visit to go to the doctor THAT DAY, and would never have to wait for surgery if my life was at risk. My family doctor is awesome, and I wouldn't trade him for anything. So yes, I would rather pay for my own health insurance than pay for mine and YOURS. I would rather not have government bureaucrats decide what I should do with my healthcare, or if I should have healthcare at all. I pay maybe 8 percent of my income on healthcare, and I don't even have my CPA yet (and am barely above the poverty line probably). Is that really so bad? Actually it sounds like you have pretty bad insurance, assuming you are a healthy 24-year-old. Having priced private insurance for myself I was able to find much better deals (i.e. cheaper doctor visits for a lower monthly premium). Maybe it has to do with where you live (I'm in Texas). Its because companies are allowed to have monopolies in certain states. Here its Blue Cross Blue Shield. If I was able to buy across state lines (Shriek! A Republican idea!), I'd be able to get a better deal. BCBS has like a 95 percent market share. So they charge whatever they want, and I pretty much have to get it. So much for Democrats wanting me to get the best healthcare for the best price. Even though it sucks, it is more than adequate for me right now (young, no real health problems).
This change would not affect the drastic high prices of healthcare. While it is an issue, this change would solve so little that it is completely laughable that Republicans suggested it. This would lower cost probably only for a couple months and the prices would continue to skyrocket.
Seriously, we need Healthcare REFORM, not Healthcare MINOR ADJUSTMENT. The republicans suggested a bunch of ridiculously minor changes, and refused every point of actually changing the system.
Whoa crap, let's get back on topic. Though this is a good example of how Americans span the spectrum from very liberal to very conservative.
On November 05 2010 06:04 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 05:59 DoubleReed wrote:On November 05 2010 05:51 domovoi wrote:By the way, here is a good example of European xenophobia, so it's not like y'all are that progressive/enlightened: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=166401If an American made those sort of comments about the American underclass, they'd (rightly) be called a racist. What? I don't understand this post at all. Not only because the underclass isn't a race (so its not really an analogue to Roma), but also because I honestly don't understand this post. I'm sure you've noticed the racial disparities in the American underclass. Should I just outright and say it? If an American said something like poor African-Americans are basically animals, they would be called a racist. God forbid a politician ever saying it, his career would be ruined. Yet in Europe, such feelings appear to be quite common toward the Roma. My point is that Europeans can pretend to be all high-minded compared to "insane", "right-wing" "rassist" Americans, yet we are all the same species with the same irrational fears.
Uh... not really... I'm pretty sure there are more poor white people than poor black people in America. I think that's just a stereotype.
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Uh... not really... I'm pretty sure there are more poor white people than poor black people in America.
Seeing as there are far more white people than black people in America, this is obviously going to be true. The white poverty rate is much, much lower than the black poverty rate though.
http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparebar.jsp?ind=14&cat=1
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On November 05 2010 06:33 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 04:47 yema1 wrote:
1) Both sides are quite right wing on economic issues, which is always good.
You're from Iceland, right? Funny you say that considering how ultra liberal policies and financial capitalism have screwed up your country. Sigh...
You're right, but the situation in Iceland was different. It's mainly because of loans why we crashed. Ordinary people took loans in euros (which was very beneficial at the time) but when the krona crashed then the loans went up 100-150%, thus a lot of people could pay off their loans leading to bankruptcy. That is a big problem, the bigger problem however is how we responded.
...yes. We elected a Socialist government which is comprised of former communists and their minions. If our economy was a burning house - then we spilled oil onto the fire. The best thing we could do at this point is to vote back the liberal conservatives and start rebuilding our economy. Nothing can get fixed when we have a government which is hostile towards business and foreign investments.
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On November 05 2010 07:50 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +
I'm sure you've noticed the racial disparities in the American underclass. Should I just outright and say it? If an American said something like poor African-Americans are basically animals, they would be called a racist. God forbid a politician ever saying it, his career would be ruined.
Yet in Europe, such feelings appear to be quite common toward the Roma. My point is that Europeans can pretend to be all high-minded compared to "insane", "right-wing" "rassist" Americans, yet we are all the same species with the same irrational fears.
Uh... not really... I'm pretty sure there are more poor white people than poor black people in America. I'm pretty sure that's just a stereotype.
I should have said the ethnic American underclass, not simply underclass. And blacks are disproportionately represented amongst the poor, that much is true. Regardless, there are many more poor Europeans than poor Roma. And my point is that in America, we would never call poor Blacks animals or trash or whatever other despicable names are being used in that thread. We would never advocate forcibly removing them, which is what France recently did to some Roma (contrary to EU policies on freedom of movement).
Reading this thread, you get the impression that Europeans view Americans as backward, ignorant racists. Yet they fail to realize those "right-wing" attitudes are present within their own society, and often more extreme than American attitudes.
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I see American politics as having two right wing parties. One slightly more to the left than the other. Neither close to the middle of the spectrum. So basically I see it as picking the republican party or the republican party that calls itself the democrats.
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My whole view on abortion is libertarian, if anything. I don't care what you do with your own body. While I think it is wrong to murder a future human being, if you can live with it, then go ahead. I bet we are all glad that our parents chose not to abort us.
I see adoption as a better option if you want to keep your soul intact.
I remember seeing some dumb b-i on MTV who got an abortion "because it interfered with her partying lifestyle." Here's an idea: don't let random dudes nut in you slutbag. Geez. Its these types that are somewhere below the level of human to me.
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On November 05 2010 07:55 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +Uh... not really... I'm pretty sure there are more poor white people than poor black people in America. Seeing as there are far more white people than black people in America, this is obviously going to be true. The white poverty rate is much, much lower than the black poverty rate though. http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparebar.jsp?ind=14&cat=1
Oh shit those are facts! All right then, point proven.
Reading this thread, you get the impression that Europeans view Americans as backward, ignorant racists. Yet they fail to realize those "right-wing" attitudes are present within their own society, and often more extreme than American attitudes.
Oh I actually didn't know that Europeans consider us racist. This makes more sense now. Personally I think that's pretty laughable. You're shunned as a racist surprisingly fast in America, even if you just make an off-color joke.
After seeing some of various European countries actions against minorities, I'm thankful for The Supreme Court.
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On November 05 2010 07:57 Yurie wrote:
I see American politics as having two right wing parties. One slightly more to the left than the other. Neither close to the middle of the spectrum. So basically I see it as picking the republican party or the republican party that calls itself the democrats.
My opinion and lots of people I know, is the same as Yurie's, there ain't no left in the us, just one right and one that is slightly more right.
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My big question is why was the U.S. so successful with capitalism before all of the big govt spending/socialist policies? (Hint: Hard work, smart people, entrepreneurship, low taxes, smaller govt, etc. IE: people didn't ask for/want a handout)
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On November 05 2010 07:41 skurj wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 06:37 jungsu wrote:On November 05 2010 06:14 skurj wrote:On November 05 2010 06:09 trainRiderJ wrote:On November 05 2010 06:01 domovoi wrote:On November 05 2010 05:58 trainRiderJ wrote:On November 05 2010 05:40 Scruffy wrote:
I prefer the American system of health care (pre-Obamacare). I am 24 years old. I have basic catastrophic coverage (train wreck insurance), that has high deductibles in the event (although highly unlikely) that I get very sick or hurt. I pay 80 USD a month, and it covers some of the costs of prescriptions. I pay 40 USD per visit to go to the doctor THAT DAY, and would never have to wait for surgery if my life was at risk. My family doctor is awesome, and I wouldn't trade him for anything. So yes, I would rather pay for my own health insurance than pay for mine and YOURS. I would rather not have government bureaucrats decide what I should do with my healthcare, or if I should have healthcare at all. I pay maybe 8 percent of my income on healthcare, and I don't even have my CPA yet (and am barely above the poverty line probably). Is that really so bad? Actually it sounds like you have pretty bad insurance, assuming you are a healthy 24-year-old. Having priced private insurance for myself I was able to find much better deals (i.e. cheaper doctor visits for a lower monthly premium). Maybe it has to do with where you live (I'm in Texas). This is a good point. I'm a healthy 28-year-old, but I have what some people describe as "cadillac coverage." My deductibles are low because of corporate tax incentives, but it boggles my mind why I even need insurance for things like eyeglasses and periodic doctor checkups and dentist appointments. That's another good issue for debate regarding our current healthcare system. Much of what we call "insurance" is more like a "health club". Insurance is by definition a risk-mitigating service for unexpected events that you might not be able to afford to pay for out of pocket. Insurance companies pool everyone's money, run risk tables to see how much they should expect to pay out, and then charge extra for some profit as they run a high-demand business. Obviously, yearly wellness exams and eyeglasses are not exactly "unexpected events". Why is there even a need to include the insurance companies in the mix? Government regulation makes this worse and Obamacare will exacerbate it. They force health insurance policies to cover certain items so you will have to buy expensive and comprehensive insurance even if you don't want it. This will cause people to consume more health services that they don't need and increase health care price inflation. The policies won't be expensive because everyone will have them. The U.S. spends more money per capita than many countries, with fewer results. Socialized medicine saves money, and we have working examples to compare it to. My country is retarded. Anyone in Europe have a spare room I could use? Sigh. I prescribe for you one semester of microeconomics. This should cure your leftism.
I find theses kind of arguments so fucking offensive that it really pisses me off.
I prescribe you a cure of real life. Ultra-liberalism and the bullcrap of hortodox economy a-la-Friedman has lead to the worst crisis since 1929, and the most socialist country in the world are the one who succeed the best: Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland.
I've heard this exact bullshit for years about France and England, how English were realistic and how France was living in the past, and blablabla and the economic science etc... and the result is that after 2 decades of Tatcherism and improved tatcherism versus two decades of socialism, England is ten times more in the shit than France.
Be a right winger if you like it, but PLEASE just don't come with your "science" to prove your ideology right. Because that's just lame, and that's just wrong.
Thanks.
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On November 05 2010 07:55 yema1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 06:33 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 05 2010 04:47 yema1 wrote:
1) Both sides are quite right wing on economic issues, which is always good.
You're from Iceland, right? Funny you say that considering how ultra liberal policies and financial capitalism have screwed up your country. Sigh... You're right, but the situation in Iceland was different. It's mainly because of loans why we crashed. Ordinary people took loans in euros (which was very beneficial at the time) but when the krona crashed then the loans went up 100-150%, thus a lot of people could pay off their loans leading to bankruptcy. That is a big problem, the bigger problem however is how we responded. ...yes. We elected a Socialist government which is comprised of former communists and their minions. If our economy was a burning house - then we spilled oil onto the fire. The best thing we could do at this point is to vote back the liberal conservatives and start rebuilding our economy. Nothing can get fixed when we have a government which is hostile towards business and foreign investments.
That's funny I have an other version.
Your country got into most hardcore of financial ultra liberalism, building its whole economy on speculation and banking without having any kind of real industry or non-virtual economic activity.
Theses neo-viking idiots have just ruined your people.
Now what you are saying is basically that you support the people who put you in the shit because supporting the other ones is like putting oil on the fire. What's your solution? To start one more time to try to become the paradise of every big financial hedge fund and speculative bank?
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On November 05 2010 08:32 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I find theses kind of arguments so fucking offensive that it really pisses me off.
I prescribe you a cure of real life. Ultra-liberalism and the bullcrap of hortodox economy a-la-Friedman has lead to the worst crisis since 1929, and the most socialist country in the world are the one who succeed the best: Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland.
I've heard this exact bullshit for years about France and England, how English were realistic and how France was living in the past, and blablabla and the economic science etc... and the result is that after 2 decades of Tatcherism and improved tatcherism versus two decades of socialism, England is ten times more in the shit than France.
Be a right winger if you like it, but PLEASE just don't come with your "science" to prove your ideology right. Because that's just lame, and that's just wrong.
Thanks.
You sound like an IDer or climate change denier. I thought Europeans were supposed to approve of the scientific method? Because at least economists attempt to model the real world and do empirical studies about it, as opposed to whatever "science" your viewpoint is based off of.
And actually, highly "socialist" countries like Greece, Iceland, Ireland, and France have done the worst in this recession. England is doing way better than France.
Also, it's very ironic that you laud Scandinavian countries while criticizing Thatcherism and Friedman. You do realize that the Scandinavian countries went through many neo-liberal reforms as well? They are among the most capitalist countries today.
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On November 05 2010 07:56 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 07:50 DoubleReed wrote:
I'm sure you've noticed the racial disparities in the American underclass. Should I just outright and say it? If an American said something like poor African-Americans are basically animals, they would be called a racist. God forbid a politician ever saying it, his career would be ruined.
Yet in Europe, such feelings appear to be quite common toward the Roma. My point is that Europeans can pretend to be all high-minded compared to "insane", "right-wing" "rassist" Americans, yet we are all the same species with the same irrational fears.
Uh... not really... I'm pretty sure there are more poor white people than poor black people in America. I'm pretty sure that's just a stereotype. I should have said the ethnic American underclass, not simply underclass. And blacks are disproportionately represented amongst the poor, that much is true. Regardless, there are many more poor Europeans than poor Roma. And my point is that in America, we would never call poor Blacks animals or trash or whatever other despicable names are being used in that thread. We would never advocate forcibly removing them, which is what France recently did to some Roma (contrary to EU policies on freedom of movement). Reading this thread, you get the impression that Europeans view Americans as backward, ignorant racists. Yet they fail to realize those "right-wing" attitudes are present within their own society, and often more extreme than American attitudes.
You keep telling yourself that if it makes you sleep better.
The homogeneous europe is probably only jealous that the U.S. is the country Jesus loves most.
In other news: People in this thread give their opinions because they were asked for them. You might wanna ask yourself why those opinions are so negative...
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Your country got into most hardcore of financial ultra liberalism, building its whole economy on speculation and banking without having any kind of real industry or non-virtual economic activity
Hong Kong and Singapore are dominated by their financial industries. They are very low-tax and low regulation. But they're doing way better than any European country in terms of GDP/capita, education, health outcomes, etc.
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On November 05 2010 08:48 Monsen wrote:
You keep telling yourself that if it makes you sleep better.
The homogeneous europe is probably only jealous that the U.S. is the country Jesus loves most.
In other news: People in this thread give their opinions because they were asked for them. You might wanna ask yourself why those opinions are so negative...
I ask Europeans to reflect on their own biases, and you get all defensive. Typical non-enlightened right-winger.
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On November 04 2010 06:00 l0st_romantic wrote:
How does your country view US politics? Is there much discussion at all? Americans, what do you want to explain about your political system to the rest of the world?
US Politics kinda enrages me if I am honest.
The country is without a doubt the most prosperous and affluent in the world, and yet it seems to be forever on the brink of succumbing to complete and utter morons. Everything between the east and west coasts, we perceive, as a forgotton land of idiots who sadly have equal votership and a propensity for rabidly support any hack who can shout about claiming back 'freedoms' and constitutional rights.
I was discussing with a friend the other day, how fucking awesome America would be (and consequently the world system of economics and politics) if we just transplanted Scandinavian style governmental policy and good common-sense social values. We would be living in some kind of eutopia.
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On November 05 2010 08:45 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 08:32 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I find theses kind of arguments so fucking offensive that it really pisses me off.
I prescribe you a cure of real life. Ultra-liberalism and the bullcrap of hortodox economy a-la-Friedman has lead to the worst crisis since 1929, and the most socialist country in the world are the one who succeed the best: Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland.
I've heard this exact bullshit for years about France and England, how English were realistic and how France was living in the past, and blablabla and the economic science etc... and the result is that after 2 decades of Tatcherism and improved tatcherism versus two decades of socialism, England is ten times more in the shit than France.
Be a right winger if you like it, but PLEASE just don't come with your "science" to prove your ideology right. Because that's just lame, and that's just wrong.
Thanks. Also, it's very ironic that you laud Scandinavian countries while criticizing Thatcherism and Friedman. You do realize that the Scandinavian countries went through many neo-liberal reforms as well? They are among the most capitalist countries today.
Ehm.. what?
You might want to re-think that statement.
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On November 05 2010 08:45 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 08:32 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I find theses kind of arguments so fucking offensive that it really pisses me off.
I prescribe you a cure of real life. Ultra-liberalism and the bullcrap of hortodox economy a-la-Friedman has lead to the worst crisis since 1929, and the most socialist country in the world are the one who succeed the best: Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland.
I've heard this exact bullshit for years about France and England, how English were realistic and how France was living in the past, and blablabla and the economic science etc... and the result is that after 2 decades of Tatcherism and improved tatcherism versus two decades of socialism, England is ten times more in the shit than France.
Be a right winger if you like it, but PLEASE just don't come with your "science" to prove your ideology right. Because that's just lame, and that's just wrong.
Thanks. You sound like an IDer or climate change denier. I thought Europeans were supposed to approve of the scientific method? Because at least economists attempt to model the real world and do empirical studies about it, as opposed to whatever "science" your viewpoint is based off of. And actually, highly "socialist" countries like Greece, Iceland, Ireland, and France have done the worst in this recession. England is doing way better than France. Also, it's very ironic that you laud Scandinavian countries while criticizing Thatcherism and Friedman. You do realize that the Scandinavian countries went through many neo-liberal reforms as well? They are among the most capitalist countries today.
It seems to me that economy is not a science at all, and this is not a very original thought. First one to have proven it a very simple way was Karl Marx, and that's 150 years ago. The fact that economist disagree so much (there are left wing economist, right win economist, liberal, socialist, ultra liberal economists etc...) on very simple issues, negates the possibility of saying that a claim is scientifically true because it matches with economic hortodoxy.
England is doing better than France? Hum, no. That's just not true. England is doing absolutely horrible right now. Government has to cut the equivalment of 1 000 000 jobs, and between 10% and 40% in all its sectors. The country has a bigger debt than France and the social situation is much worst.
Iceland has suffered from the crisis because they have tried to become the quivalent of the City: a financial place without any backup. Iceland is the perfect example of how riht wing policies can fuck up a country.
Greece is a special case. They can't get their taxes in, that has nothing to do with socialism, it's rather a cultural problem.
Scandinavian countries are the places were the healthcares, the state pensions, the social security and the taxation is the highest in the world.
We won't go very far if you just answer with "facts" which are all plainly wrong. Nothing in your post was actually true.
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EPT
