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How do foreigners view US politics? - Page 26

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domovoi
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1478 Posts
November 04 2010 21:24 GMT
#501
This British guy would fit well with the Republicans:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=166427

Europeans need to focus more on the prejudices of their own people (of which history provides us with many examples, oftentimes with horrifying results) before judging Americans.
VanGarde
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden755 Posts
November 04 2010 21:25 GMT
#502
On November 05 2010 05:55 Scruffy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2010 05:50 VanGarde wrote:
Well... It is always dangerous to start generalizing between communities and I can't speak for the entire world but I can tell what factors differ between Europeans and Americans in general when it comes to politics and thus results in very I guess polarized views on american politics.

First of all Europe is in practice way way more secularized than America. We have way way more unbelievers and of those who follow a faith, they are way more toned down than most american Christians. I think there are quite obvious historical psychological reasons for why it turned out this way.

The US was founded on the basis of freedom of religion, to a large extent, the people who came to america were people who were persecuted for their religious beliefs elsewhere and found refuge to practice their faith in america. For that reason religion has always had a positive connotation in america and that is why presidential candidates apparently need to utter stuff like "god bless america" to gain the favor of the people.

But because of this fact america has always had a plethora of religious groups who kind of all cancel each other out in the sense that no one group gets any real influence over politics, at least not until recently. Thus a society, historically with freedom of religion.

Europe on the other hand have experienced something that the United States so far and for these reasons have not had to deal with. That is Europe has experienced a society where one religion gains dominance and eventual influence over politics. Traditionally the people of Europe were suppressed by a religious elite of the kings and the church and the people were eventually able to liberate themselves from the church. For that reason any religion that starts to become a bit too vocal tends to make Europeans way more uncomfortable, especially the further north and the further west you are in Europe.

If the swedish prime minister were to end a speech with "god bless sweden", then that would for most people bring on an uneasy feeling comparable to if he had said "sieg heil".

I don't pretend to speak for everyone but I think this is the majority situation at the very least in Scandinavia, and then obviously when you watch american politics and see this constant influx of religion into politics in america it creates the same feeling of unease as if you are watching a theocracy in the making.

I think that at the very core, social differences are not the biggest factor but rather that Americans are more interested in defending their freedom of religion, while Europeans are very passionate about defending their freedom from religion. And this core leads to all the different and usually negative views on the other sides politics.


I sir, think you are spot on. And this is coming from an "evil" conservative




Actually, I find it quite ironic at the same time because at closer inspection this perceived difference is actually probably at the core a very fundamental common trait in america and Europe.

I mean, with saying that Europeans value freedom from religion I obviously do not mean that we want to outlaw faith, lots of Europeans are religious and I don't think anyone has a problem with it. It is rather about keeping politics free from religion in the sense that no faith based belief is going to have the power to affect me in my everyday life through law or social policy or whatever.

In reality, it is a very idealogical defense among the population against oppression of individual freedom. In reality when in any way shape or form religion makes advances to get involved in politics in Europe people react exactly like Americans in general react to the prospect of the government grabbing more power.

Its the exact same principle and passion behind the curtains and a fear and determination to never be oppressed again. Only for Americans it is the state that is seen as the potential threat while in Europe it is the church. The unconquerable will to be free as individuals and not have our decisions forced upon us is probably and has probably always been the common ideology between both societies. Just, historically and sociologically these struggles have taken on very different tones and methods as a result of having to deal with different obstacles.
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
trainRiderJ
Profile Joined August 2010
United States615 Posts
November 04 2010 21:27 GMT
#503
On November 05 2010 06:25 VanGarde wrote:
Its the exact same principle and passion behind the curtains and a fear and determination to never be oppressed again. Only for Americans it is the state that is seen as the potential threat while in Europe it is the church. The unconquerable will to be free as individuals and not have our decisions forced upon us is probably and has probably always been the common ideology between both societies. Just, historically and sociologically these struggles have taken on very different tones and methods as a result of having to deal with different obstacles.

Very well said.
Minzy
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia387 Posts
November 04 2010 21:31 GMT
#504
Politics in general is just pure entertainment for me, high school all over again, people vying for popularity and attention and seeing the things they will do for said popularity and attention always amuses me (though there is sometimes someone with something intelligent to say, but this is quite rare nowadays).
Huh...
trainRiderJ
Profile Joined August 2010
United States615 Posts
November 04 2010 21:32 GMT
#505
On November 05 2010 06:31 Minzy wrote:
Politics in general is just pure entertainment for me, high school all over again, people vying for popularity and attention and seeing the things they will do for said popularity and attention always amuses me (though there is sometimes someone with something intelligent to say, but this is quite rare nowadays).

This is a pretty naive view, since those people vying for popularity and attention can do things like raise your taxes, outlaw your video games, or whatever else you don't want to happen. Conversely, some of them might even do something you want, so you should try and learn about them and vote for them.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7951 Posts
November 04 2010 21:33 GMT
#506
On November 05 2010 04:47 yema1 wrote:

1) Both sides are quite right wing on economic issues, which is always good.


You're from Iceland, right? Funny you say that considering how ultra liberal policies and financial capitalism have screwed up your country.

Sigh...
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
Lovin
Profile Joined May 2009
Denmark812 Posts
November 04 2010 21:34 GMT
#507
I find this obsession with 'founding fathers' and, like KwarK so nicely put it, who has ever made a deal out of Abortion? Only in America.. And this somewhat irrational fear of socialism that anyone with a vote for GOP seems to have.

I remember seeing a video with a friend of Jon Steward's, forgot his name, actually talking sense a couple of month ago, in front of a bunch of politicians, ("The gentleman is correct in sitting!").
What struck me about that video is that people is even ALLOWED to talk when a speaker is on the chair, without permission, instead of having to ask permission first or something along those lines.
And the problem is, that seems to be the problem with your politics, and media aswell. Everybody is trying to shout louder than the other guy, because the people listen to that bs, and because there is no 'code of politeness' to be seen anywhere for me :/. People just shout to drown out the other ones shouting, and hope to be heard.
AKA SuddenSalad
domovoi
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1478 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-04 21:36:57
November 04 2010 21:35 GMT
#508
On November 05 2010 06:34 Lovin wrote:
I remember seeing a video with a friend of Jon Steward's, forgot his name, actually talking sense a couple of month ago, in front of a bunch of politicians, ("The gentleman is correct in sitting!").
What struck me about that video is that people is even ALLOWED to talk when a speaker is on the chair, without permission, instead of having to ask permission first or something along those lines.
And the problem is, that seems to be the problem with your politics, and media aswell. Everybody is trying to shout louder than the other guy, because the people listen to that bs, and because there is no 'code of politeness' to be seen anywhere for me :/. People just shout to drown out the other ones shouting, and hope to be heard.

Err, in general, within the Congressional assemblies, the one speaking is never interrupted to the extent his speech is drowned out. There are rules regarding decorum. You should watch more C-SPAN if you don't believe me.

Are you talking about Stephen Colbert's testimony in front of Congress? I don't recall there being any interruptions.

And I guess you've never seen "Ask the PM"? That is way more confrontational and impolite than anything in the US outside of campaigning.
jungsu
Profile Joined February 2010
United States279 Posts
November 04 2010 21:37 GMT
#509
On November 05 2010 06:14 skurj wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2010 06:09 trainRiderJ wrote:
On November 05 2010 06:01 domovoi wrote:
On November 05 2010 05:58 trainRiderJ wrote:
On November 05 2010 05:40 Scruffy wrote:
I prefer the American system of health care (pre-Obamacare). I am 24 years old. I have basic catastrophic coverage (train wreck insurance), that has high deductibles in the event (although highly unlikely) that I get very sick or hurt. I pay 80 USD a month, and it covers some of the costs of prescriptions. I pay 40 USD per visit to go to the doctor THAT DAY, and would never have to wait for surgery if my life was at risk. My family doctor is awesome, and I wouldn't trade him for anything. So yes, I would rather pay for my own health insurance than pay for mine and YOURS. I would rather not have government bureaucrats decide what I should do with my healthcare, or if I should have healthcare at all. I pay maybe 8 percent of my income on healthcare, and I don't even have my CPA yet (and am barely above the poverty line probably). Is that really so bad?

Actually it sounds like you have pretty bad insurance, assuming you are a healthy 24-year-old. Having priced private insurance for myself I was able to find much better deals (i.e. cheaper doctor visits for a lower monthly premium). Maybe it has to do with where you live (I'm in Texas).

This is a good point. I'm a healthy 28-year-old, but I have what some people describe as "cadillac coverage." My deductibles are low because of corporate tax incentives, but it boggles my mind why I even need insurance for things like eyeglasses and periodic doctor checkups and dentist appointments.


That's another good issue for debate regarding our current healthcare system. Much of what we call "insurance" is more like a "health club".

Insurance is by definition a risk-mitigating service for unexpected events that you might not be able to afford to pay for out of pocket. Insurance companies pool everyone's money, run risk tables to see how much they should expect to pay out, and then charge extra for some profit as they run a high-demand business.

Obviously, yearly wellness exams and eyeglasses are not exactly "unexpected events". Why is there even a need to include the insurance companies in the mix?


Government regulation makes this worse and Obamacare will exacerbate it. They force health insurance policies to cover certain items so you will have to buy expensive and comprehensive insurance even if you don't want it. This will cause people to consume more health services that they don't need and increase health care price inflation.


The policies won't be expensive because everyone will have them. The U.S. spends more money per capita than many countries, with fewer results. Socialized medicine saves money, and we have working examples to compare it to.

My country is retarded. Anyone in Europe have a spare room I could use? Sigh.
go nony
teacash
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada494 Posts
November 04 2010 21:44 GMT
#510
Oh my lord... I pay a fair bit of attention to US politics, and it is absolutely the saddest and most ridiculous thing going on...
So little rationality, so much idealism, so much time wasted on trivial issues, so much bullshit everywhere.
So many people who aren't qualified to captain a speedboat, let alone govern a district or state.
There are some bright spots, but they're altogether insignificant compared to the wretched whole.

Add in the Citizens united ruling which allows infinite anonymous funding of politicians by corporations..
And you've got one big clusterfuck with no way out any time in the next few decades.

Clusterfuck is the only word to describe the american political system.
domovoi
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1478 Posts
November 04 2010 21:46 GMT
#511
Add in the Citizens united ruling which allows infinite anonymous funding of politicians by corporations..

It allows funding from all sorts of organizations toward ad campaigns, not toward the politician. Note that unions have used it the most. Do Europeans hate unions now?
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32106 Posts
November 04 2010 21:47 GMT
#512
They think it's sad/a joke. Can't say I blame them!

They also think we are all gun toting cowboys

PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
KaRnaGe[cF]
Profile Joined September 2007
United States355 Posts
November 04 2010 21:50 GMT
#513
On November 04 2010 06:06 KwarK wrote:
I find it absurd to the point of amusement until I remember the global position of the US and then I die a little inside. The importance of religion in American politics (how is abortion an important issue for anyone anywhere ever?!?!?!) and a Cold War fear of socialism are rather quaint from a European perspective.


How does abrtion have anything to do with religion? I am against abortion and i'm not religious. I feel like it is murder.
"We must remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school." - Athenian General Thucydides Quantum Gaming
pfods
Profile Joined September 2010
United States895 Posts
November 04 2010 22:07 GMT
#514
On November 04 2010 06:33 DrN0 wrote:
I get the feeling due to that stereotype of americans being dumb its like watching a senior citizen driving a hummer... A lot of power in the hands of a spastic retiree complaining about lack of respect of religion. I kid of course, the UK loves American politics and pretty much covers as if it were its own, so I guess we respect it....?


.



we love you guys too! nothing is better than prime ministers questions.
HULKAMANIA
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States1219 Posts
November 04 2010 22:15 GMT
#515
On November 05 2010 06:08 Monsen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2010 05:24 PacketOverflow wrote:
I find it pretty funny that Europeans are about as dumb as Americans...
...it really demonstrates a lack of understanding of our political system, our history, and the nation itself.
America has a LOT of different demographics and is no where near as homogeneous as Europe or Canada.

and is no where near as homogeneous as Europe or Canada

near as homogeneous as Europe or Canada

as homogeneous as Europe




Care to elaborate, Monsen?
If it were not so, I would have told you.
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
November 04 2010 22:19 GMT
#516
politics aside, awesome videos ha
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Mizzet
Profile Joined June 2010
Singapore47 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-04 22:23:24
November 04 2010 22:21 GMT
#517
When I think about American politics I get depressed. Republicans, religion in politics (sigh), I don't know, it's like I'm living in some bizarro world . And the worst bit is I don't see a solution anytime soon. Just chiming in, there's nothing much I can say that hasn't already been said a dozen times here, and then some.

Clusterfuck is the only word to describe the american political system.
simme123
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Sweden810 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-04 22:36:44
November 04 2010 22:30 GMT
#518
Btw guys Europe isn't a country there's a lot that differs from country so stop putting us together.

The Scandinavian countries are very similar but there's still diffrences and comparing us to the 10 year old romanian and shit just shows that your knowledge of the world is very limited.
AkatjaN
Profile Joined September 2010
France6 Posts
November 04 2010 22:38 GMT
#519
On November 05 2010 06:07 Scruffy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2010 06:05 AkatjaN wrote:
On November 05 2010 05:48 domovoi wrote:
I am curious to see how they will accept the fact that U.S will not stay the first economy of the world.

Probably not well, but it's not going to happen for at least another two decades.


atm, the United States growth stay at 2% because of the debt.
If China decide to ask the money back, it change everything,
And it can appened in 5 or 10 years, (when China wont need american consumption anymore)


I've read many articles that China's growth in unsustainable (no duh) and that in the long term, they will have many problems (such as pollution and qualified workforce).


Exactly, there is different reason for China to stop being a creditor for the United States

On November 05 2010 06:09 domovoi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2010 06:05 AkatjaN wrote:
On November 05 2010 05:48 domovoi wrote:
I am curious to see how they will accept the fact that U.S will not stay the first economy of the world.

Probably not well, but it's not going to happen for at least another two decades.


atm, the United States growth stay at 2% because of the debt.
If China decide to ask the money back, it change everything,
And it can appened in 5 or 10 years, (when China wont need american consumption anymore)

I don't think you understand how this works.

Ok, let's say US growth stays at 2%. China would still need like 40 years to beat the US in total GDP, assuming they maintain their current rate of 8% (which even they think is a little too high). China can't "ask for the money back," that's not how a loan works. In fact, China doesn't want the money back, it made those investments under the assumption the principal would be paid over a long period of time with interest. Generally, when one gives out loans they don't like it when the borrower repays early.


I agree with that. This system is good for both China & United States at the moment, but not forever. One time, United States will have to get the money back.
skurj
Profile Joined September 2010
United States87 Posts
November 04 2010 22:41 GMT
#520
On November 05 2010 06:37 jungsu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2010 06:14 skurj wrote:
On November 05 2010 06:09 trainRiderJ wrote:
On November 05 2010 06:01 domovoi wrote:
On November 05 2010 05:58 trainRiderJ wrote:
On November 05 2010 05:40 Scruffy wrote:
I prefer the American system of health care (pre-Obamacare). I am 24 years old. I have basic catastrophic coverage (train wreck insurance), that has high deductibles in the event (although highly unlikely) that I get very sick or hurt. I pay 80 USD a month, and it covers some of the costs of prescriptions. I pay 40 USD per visit to go to the doctor THAT DAY, and would never have to wait for surgery if my life was at risk. My family doctor is awesome, and I wouldn't trade him for anything. So yes, I would rather pay for my own health insurance than pay for mine and YOURS. I would rather not have government bureaucrats decide what I should do with my healthcare, or if I should have healthcare at all. I pay maybe 8 percent of my income on healthcare, and I don't even have my CPA yet (and am barely above the poverty line probably). Is that really so bad?

Actually it sounds like you have pretty bad insurance, assuming you are a healthy 24-year-old. Having priced private insurance for myself I was able to find much better deals (i.e. cheaper doctor visits for a lower monthly premium). Maybe it has to do with where you live (I'm in Texas).

This is a good point. I'm a healthy 28-year-old, but I have what some people describe as "cadillac coverage." My deductibles are low because of corporate tax incentives, but it boggles my mind why I even need insurance for things like eyeglasses and periodic doctor checkups and dentist appointments.


That's another good issue for debate regarding our current healthcare system. Much of what we call "insurance" is more like a "health club".

Insurance is by definition a risk-mitigating service for unexpected events that you might not be able to afford to pay for out of pocket. Insurance companies pool everyone's money, run risk tables to see how much they should expect to pay out, and then charge extra for some profit as they run a high-demand business.

Obviously, yearly wellness exams and eyeglasses are not exactly "unexpected events". Why is there even a need to include the insurance companies in the mix?


Government regulation makes this worse and Obamacare will exacerbate it. They force health insurance policies to cover certain items so you will have to buy expensive and comprehensive insurance even if you don't want it. This will cause people to consume more health services that they don't need and increase health care price inflation.


The policies won't be expensive because everyone will have them. The U.S. spends more money per capita than many countries, with fewer results. Socialized medicine saves money, and we have working examples to compare it to.

My country is retarded. Anyone in Europe have a spare room I could use? Sigh.



I prescribe for you one semester of microeconomics. This should cure your leftism.
I'd rather be zerg rushing
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