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Dullahx
France62 Posts
France Japan South Korea Vietnam Iraq When you give so much power (weapons+hierarchy and country support) to mentally unbalanced people, no matter what nationality they are, they will commit thoses rapes/murders. There is a german movie out there illustrating my thought, "Das Experiment" ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0250258/ ) | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On September 30 2010 15:36 unavailable wrote: We do. Unthinking killing drone image of the US Military is a myth (except for the Corps, har har.) As an Infantry guy I am constantly encouraged to think for myself and judge a situation. This isn't Viet Nam, there are ROE and the cost of violating them is hefty for us. It actually reached the point late in Iraq where contracted civilian investigators would come out to the scene of a firefight and do their best to ensure that there was no foul play. That being said, it is combat and combat is a shitty place. Not because of a lack of thought but because of lack of information and I don't mean in an Military Intelligence sense of the term. Let me frame it like this: You have been in a city full of people who either love, hate or feel indifferent to you. The ones who love you and who are indifferent tend not to say a thing to you. The ones who hate you try to kill you, blow you up, scam you lie to you they will kill their own civilians who they are trying to liberate from our evil western clutches to get to you... Each of these three groups look the same, all of them dress the same and speak the same language, they go to the same religious centers they mingle together all the time. Some of the worst ones fight along your side for a time. So you as an individual, ANY individual no matter training or nationality, are prone to become a bit paranoid. Maybe your friend got blown up last week because some twelve year old boy tossed an RKG into his Hummvee after receiving some of the humanitarian rations that are given out (small scale "hearts and minds" stuff) and now some mob of kids are running up to you begging for candy and food and money while a group of adults stand across the street giving you dirty looks. What do you do? What if one of them seems to be throwing something? Even less horrific a scene than that is some of the standard training we do get. We are mean, we need to be. Australians are too. If you are invading a house to snatch up a guy who is coordinating mortar attacks on your FOB you are going to kick over tables, raid closets, knock people to the floor, yell and scream and be vicious. That sort of presence actually keeps an already bad situation from becoming a blood bath. And you know what. Sometimes you get the wrong house. Unfortunate. That sort of stuff happens and 99% of the time the right call is made. People get skittish, even professional tough guys. It is not a lack or training or sensitivity, it is the brutal and sad reality of combat. No one wants it. There's a lot of truth in this I'm sure, but the particular case in the OP seems to be going far beyond just making the wrong call. From what the article says this was completely planned and premeditated murder, so I don't think these particular soldiers can be excused in that way. | ||
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braammbolius
179 Posts
On September 30 2010 02:30 drewcifer wrote: k throwing that puppy was crossing the line Sadly though it's not surprising at all to hear people are doing dumb shit in a war with no purpose or enemy. I'm even pretty sure I'd throw a fucking puppy and record it if i was in a desert with my friends for 2 years with nothing to do. also I think these kind of heinous acts of boredom have always been around during war. The only reason you finally get to see it is cus we invented some cool shit recently called cameras and youtube. Dude, the whole video is "crossing the line", jezus christ. Also wtf. | ||
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Sensang
Germany8 Posts
Unless youre in it you wont understand it. Since this isn't the first crazy shit soldiers pull off, you might wanna notice a pattern. Those guys dont even have to be terribly evil. Its just an unreal situation where life, as protected as we know it, doesnt exist. Where you have to behave in a certain way to survive. And that certain way affects the way you look at things. How surprising is it that people, that are away from civilization put into a place where its as uncivilized as it can get, dont behave all that civilized anymore. Its just war. But ofc its more comfortable to point at some single soldiers instead of at the institutionalized thing, that some countries just cant let go. | ||
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enzym
Germany1034 Posts
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BaltA
Norway849 Posts
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unavailable
United States9 Posts
On September 30 2010 20:11 tomatriedes wrote: There's a lot of truth in this I'm sure, but the particular case in the OP seems to be going far beyond just making the wrong call. From what the article says this was completely planned and premeditated murder, so I don't think these particular soldiers can be excused in that way. Yes, those guys are assholes. I was referring more to the specifics of the question posed and I tend to ramble and get a bit dramatic sometimes.  | ||
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Diuqil
United States307 Posts
On September 30 2010 20:37 braammbolius wrote: Dude, the whole video is "crossing the line", jezus christ. Also wtf. That fucking video pisses me off so much. If I was to see these people in person I would kill them with my bare hands | ||
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TheGreatWhiteHope_
United States335 Posts
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LlamaNamedOsama
United States1900 Posts
On September 30 2010 21:47 BaltA wrote: People are getting killed without media touching it, it's good that they finally start bashing the US millitary down in Iraq, so they can't do whatever the please Finally? They've been documenting incidents like this in the media for a looong time. | ||
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Meiya
Australia1169 Posts
On October 01 2010 12:23 Diuqil wrote: That fucking video pisses me off so much. If I was to see these people in person I would kill them with my bare hands Righto tough guy, you should know that some people take such talk seriously. I would suppose that people whose job can involve killing human beings wouldn't be particularly impressed with your sentiment, if that's who you're trying to impress. | ||
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darkwing.Huzow
United States35 Posts
On September 30 2010 15:36 unavailable wrote: We do. Unthinking killing drone image of the US Military is a myth (except for the Corps, har har.) As an Infantry guy I am constantly encouraged to think for myself and judge a situation. This isn't Viet Nam, there are ROE and the cost of violating them is hefty for us. It actually reached the point late in Iraq where contracted civilian investigators would come out to the scene of a firefight and do their best to ensure that there was no foul play. That being said, it is combat and combat is a shitty place. Not because of a lack of thought but because of lack of information and I don't mean in an Military Intelligence sense of the term. Let me frame it like this: You have been in a city full of people who either love, hate or feel indifferent to you. The ones who love you and who are indifferent tend not to say a thing to you. The ones who hate you try to kill you, blow you up, scam you lie to you they will kill their own civilians who they are trying to liberate from our evil western clutches to get to you... Each of these three groups look the same, all of them dress the same and speak the same language, they go to the same religious centers they mingle together all the time. Some of the worst ones fight along your side for a time. So you as an individual, ANY individual no matter training or nationality, are prone to become a bit paranoid. Maybe your friend got blown up last week because some twelve year old boy tossed an RKG into his Hummvee after receiving some of the humanitarian rations that are given out (small scale "hearts and minds" stuff) and now some mob of kids are running up to you begging for candy and food and money while a group of adults stand across the street giving you dirty looks. What do you do? What if one of them seems to be throwing something? Even less horrific a scene than that is some of the standard training we do get. We are mean, we need to be. Australians are too. If you are invading a house to snatch up a guy who is coordinating mortar attacks on your FOB you are going to kick over tables, raid closets, knock people to the floor, yell and scream and be vicious. That sort of presence actually keeps an already bad situation from becoming a blood bath. And you know what. Sometimes you get the wrong house. Unfortunate. That sort of stuff happens and 99% of the time the right call is made. People get skittish, even professional tough guys. It is not a lack or training or sensitivity, it is the brutal and sad reality of combat. No one wants it. Excellent post, I hope everyone reads it. For the record, I am an American progressive, completely opposed to the war in Iraq. I believe invasion was a terrible decision, made for a combination of morally bankrupt and factually/logically flawed reasons. I believe that this action, more than anything else that has happened (certainly far more than 9/11), has made America far less safe and less able to protect its interests abroad. Worse, it has caused the loss of untold numbers of innocent lives. I am sure that history will view the American invasion of Iraq as a huge mistake. That said, I believe that our soldiers are deserving of nothing but respect and compassion. They are not the ones who made the decision to go to Iraq. After Iraqi civilians, American (and coalition) soldiers are the ones who suffer the most for this cynical and unrealistic war. The conduct depicted in this video (and in many other incidents) is despicable. It makes me sick to my stomach. But these people perpetrating these actions are perhaps the most deserving of compassion, because their experience in war has stolen their humanity from them. They have turned into monsters, and I am sure their life is a nightmare. They cover it up with bravado and humor, but they are sick. We need to do more to ensure that we are screening soldiers and providing them with help when they are heading down this path. And we need to remember that 99% of our soldiers are trying as hard as they can to do the right thing. Condemning the 99% for the sick actions of the 1% is the same as condemning all Muslims for the actions of Al Qaeda and other extremists. Whoever uses the actions of a few sick individuals to judge an entire group is responsible for the continuation of hostility, misunderstanding, and hate. | ||
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Kobepeng
Australia50 Posts
some just less documented than others, at times of war, its easy to let your emotion get the best of you. whether ego, pride, vengeance who knows. | ||
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hizBALLIN
United States163 Posts
Occupying Armies have throughout history been known to act in inhumane ways. It is certainly not isolated to the U.S. Armed Forces. It's a shame that the recruitment policies of all the branches of the USAF target people whom lack opportunity, or at least seem to. If any foreign power were to be actively occupying Afghanistan at the moment, be it France, Libya, Brazil, China, or any other country, a portion of said military would be mentally unstable, engage in illegal drug use, and commit inhuman acts like this. On September 30 2010 20:10 Dullahx wrote: US military history is full of rape/violence/abuse/murder cases towards civilian populations. I fucking lol'd. You mean to say "Military History is full of rape/violence/abuse/murder cases towards civilian populations." Compared to the track record of much more aged nations, the US is much less noteworthy with regards to their transgressions. Which is not to say that any inhuman transgression is anything less than noteworthy. | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
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Dagobert
Netherlands1858 Posts
...and here comes the bullshit train. As if hashish caused it. Fucking biased idiots. | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
Anyone remembers the weapons of mass destruction supposed to be found in Iraq? Inspectors found nothing. Saddam's biggest mistake was not allowing inspectors to do their job, US and Britain used this to claim that Iraqi government is not complying with the UN's instructions, and used this along with a Security Council resolution that is about the First Gulf War to start a completely unjustified invasion. The resolution allowed use of force against Iraq to take it out of Kuwait, which was invaded by Iraq at that time. It is this resolution that allowed use of force in 2003 Invasion. What can we do? Nothing, US has the power, money, the military, the technology, and it will continue to crush those not doing what is expected of them to do. Regarding all these, I can give quotations etc from International Law sources if anyone is interested. Those soldiers should be tried for war-crimes and punished accordingly. Being in a hostile environment with fear of dying for a prolonged period time would play with your mind and drive you insane/crazy and act brutally. I really feel sad for those soldiers who think they're doing a good thing by joining the war, they should protest their goverment and start taking steps to govern their own country, rather than rich bureaucrats and investors. TLDR: Soldiers are soldiers, there are maniacs everywhere and US soldiers are no expection. My advice, don't forget why and how they got there, and question what's going on in the world. Your soldiers are not dying for your freedom or anything, your soldiers are killing so that you can have more hamburgers and oil for your gas guzzling automobiles. | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
In a year from now, someone will stumble upon this thread and be shocked because he never heard of it in the first place, then bump it. Afterwards it'll get closed because by then this will be irrelevant since so much worse has happened since this. | ||
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Ricjames
Czech Republic1047 Posts
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Kim_Hyun_Han
706 Posts
japanese soldiers nanjing 1937 brazil paraguay war 1864 | ||
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