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On September 29 2010 12:32 Zecias wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 08:48 RoyW wrote:
This happens frequently in war.
That fact is not justification, nor does it mean that one should not be affected by its happening. It does mean that one should use it as a strong reminder that the nation as a whole should not be entering into these needless wars, which have no discernable net benefit to the country, aside from fueling the nilitary-industrial complex and prison slave-labour system that exists in the states.
Reports of this occurring are relatively frequenyt, and to those giving out to the media for sensationalising it, this is more of a result of the fact that the majority of occurances of a lest blatant scale are suppressed as a whole in the media.
These soldiers should be treated for and helped, as they have most probably beeen shaped into the mindframe that would facilitate this. They don't need to be sent to prision for life, or sentenced to death, this wont solve anything, and this wont prevent occurances such as this from happening in the future. the war is hardly needless, but the reason that we entered the war in the first place is idiotic. The countries in the UN are supposed to prevent genocide. when saddam came to power, there was a genocide in iraq, but we didn't intervene until the gas prices started going up. when afghanistan was invaded by russia, the US supplied the taliban with weapons to prevent the spread of communism. the russians killed plently of afghan, but the taliban was even worse(genocide of the hazara ethnic group) and they also end up attacking US embassies.
Actually, it's completely fucking needless. Thanks for giving reasons why it is needed.
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The US did much more than just support Wepaons to the Taliban when the Russians were there...
Actually the US fucked up the whole middle east... Well otherwise the Russians would probably have done it, but the shithole it is now is basically selfmade by the USA/West/Russia and their conflicts...
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On September 29 2010 23:41 Velr wrote:
The US did much more than just support Wepaons to the Taliban when the Russians were there...
Actually the US fucked up the whole middle east... Well otherwise the Russians would probably have done it, but the shithole it is now is basically selfmade by the USA/West/Russia and their conflicts...
I'm pretty sure the Middle east was in a very delicate position before russia and the US intervened.
I say this because I've experienced it: It's very easy to critique large countries like the US and Russian when you're from a small country like Switzerland, who believes that if we just talk with each other enough we can all get along, and has no real political strength.
Though i wonder how Switzerland would act if it had the power to, given that it had invasion plans to attack Gadaffi, and proved itself rather unaccepting of muslims by baning minarets
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Well this shouldn't be a new 'news' for anyone of us. It was kinda obvious that there is people just for the sake of killing (not only the targets) and doing shit like this. Its sad but what you can do.
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On September 28 2010 09:56 wadadde wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 09:45 sikyon wrote:
Do you think the military is made up of people in the top 10% of their class in high school or the bottom 10%?
People are not nice. The world is not a nice place. Worse shit than this happens everywhere in the world. That doesn't make it excusable, but it happens. I am willing to tolerate, to a certain extent, a violation of my morals to ensure that I can keep on living my comfortable life.
Does valuing myself, my family, and my friends, and my countrymen over strangers make me a bad person? Possibly, but it doesn't bother me much as long as I just compartmentalize it. Great. So the implied message is that wars like this one keep you safe and wealthy. How delightfully insightful. I would say that ranking the lives of strangers based on whether they're part of your imaginary club makes you a real dick indeed. Many people are dicks, probably most of them. I do find it dishonest to put friends and family in the same category as countrymen, even if you really feel that way. There's a real and extremely crucial difference between people you've a personal connection to and ones you don't.
its not like our opinions will ever change things. the US goes to war for personal interest and not any of our opinions will stop this.
this government is set in the status quo and having almost basically half the population buying into the lie that this country is a democratic state, they've succeeded.
we can keep arguing about how bad it is, but i'm gonna have to agree with the poster about war is ugly. there is NO clean war in the history of man. just compartmentalize the information away because getting riled up over this has no effect on the situation.
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On September 28 2010 11:34 JamesJohansen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 11:18 bitter[KALT] wrote:On September 28 2010 11:09 JamesJohansen wrote:
We might not agree with the policies, but its our godammed job to do what we're told.
But thats not newsworthy so who cares If you do not agree with them then - for god's sake - don't sign up for the job. Even more so if the job includes killing people! And, by the way, this is the same excuse every soldier in the history of time used for every military crime. This job does not include killing innocent people... Taking down radical muslims who want nothing more than the subjugation of the west is fine by me. They're threat is very underestimated by people And there is no way you're ever going to agree with every foriegn policy put forth but its vital to respect those above you or there would be no discipline, no chain of command, and no effectiveness whatsoever. Comparing that to "war crimes" is not applicable and starts to touch on godwin's law
oh yes, the radical muslims are the reason why we are there. not. gotta love the contracts, potential market to open up and putting up our own interest are the main reason we are there.
you are just another puppet the military loves to have.
every war kills innocent people. the US army, i can't think of one major conflict they were involved with that hasn't had war crime material.
it's just with the advent of media from vietnam on, people actually started to give 2 cents bout it.
your job is to follow orders blindly no matter how fucked up it is. you don't have a choice.
who cares if they are radical muslims. they are in their own goddamn country and we have no right to interfere with the workings of separate government.
the US needs to stop taking this hypocritical highly idealistic stance on why they are in other countries and just come out honestly stating, oh, we want to be there. we have financial reasons. thank god we could spin a few terrorist attacks into going into war with multiple countries with enough backing so the rest of the world doesnt act.
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that first guy who got interviewed got lies all over this face.. Extreme what people do for attention these days. :o
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On September 28 2010 14:23 enzym wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 14:16 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On September 28 2010 13:49 nard wrote:On September 28 2010 13:29 jacen wrote:
Maybe because not enough of them are involved? The us has the most soldiers deployed there no? No. Nearly 70% of the currently employed soldiers are private contractors. Most of the soldiers are not fighting for the illusion of bringing democracy but for their paychecks. Source please? Also "While 70 percent of contractors and 93 percent of private security contractors in Afghanistan are Afghan nationals." So this 70% isn't made up of British and French and whatnot that are supposed to be so much better behaved on average, it's made up of Afghani troops. By the way, a lot of people seem to have the idea that Afghanistan was peaceful and it was upset by the US invasion. Afghanistan has been in a state of civil war for decades. 10,000 people died in combat in Afghanistan the year before the US arrived. Every year since the US arrived, less than 10,000 people have been killed. Just a couple years later it was down to 4,000. This past year has been the worst year since US troops arrived and it reached 7,000. It will probably be above 10,000 the year after the US leaves, assuming they leave soon. thats why i seriously hope that they will not leave and make it a second vietnam. it isnt just any civil war (if that wouldnt be bad enough already) but one side are militant religious fundamentalists oppressing the population with force based on shariah law, hacking, slashing, and pouring acid over the face of people whereever they see fit. the us(military) certainly is very far off from being the best role model you can get, but they are still 100x more bearable than that stoneage mentality.
Unless you are going to be the next one who is being raped with battery acid in front of your family.
That, I take for granted sir.
On September 28 2010 11:05 Jonoman92 wrote:
There are evil murderers amongst us that make up a minute amount of every population. Unfortunately a few of them join the US military.
"Military personnel are supposed to be used as pawns in foreign policy." H. Kissinger
And having military 'bring democracy' is asinine beyond everything.
According to your constitution (which is the best one there is.) you shouldn't even be overseas.
Your supposed to protect your lands between your borders, sir.
Your congress hasn't approved any foreign action/vengeance/ (aka WAR) since WW II.
Why is that? Might as well research Golf of Tonkin and other staged events and be aware that
executive branch is pretty much overarching for a long time, sir.
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On September 28 2010 10:47 nard wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 09:54 Fa1nT wrote:
What I am saying is that every nation likes pointing fingers at US troops, because they are supposed to be perfect or something?
They are supposed to stay at home and keep suppressing their own people, kkthx Aah, freedom.
huge +1
also, if you go to the military, you know you'll be trained for killing people, so is like premeditated murder... i mean you have to be fucked up to going into in the first place.
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What makes this any worse than any other deaths of afghans or iraqis? Military or civilian, they are all innocent.
America are the aggressors here, I think sometimes you all forget that. No WMD or Al quaeda, just Imperialism.
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US soldiers are wasting my tax money running around doing stupid shit. I'm not afraid of any Afghanis
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On September 29 2010 22:45 braammbolius wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Sheep get flashbanged, puppies get thrown, this one you gotta watch.
k throwing that puppy was crossing the line
Sadly though it's not surprising at all to hear people are doing dumb shit in a war with no purpose or enemy. I'm even pretty sure I'd throw a fucking puppy and record it if i was in a desert with my friends for 2 years with nothing to do.
also I think these kind of heinous acts of boredom have always been around during war. The only reason you finally get to see it is cus we invented some cool shit recently called cameras and youtube.
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On September 28 2010 10:00 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2010 09:59 RiB wrote:
Things to account for when thinking about this story:
1) War's effects on the human psyche (isolation, fear of death, killing another human being)
2) The power of "chain of command"
3) Tangible objectives of war
So how's that spread of democracy going? It's going fine, thank you. We've achieved stability in Iraq and we think we can do the same in Afghanistan.
Wait, what? Which news channel are you watching? Oh, I think I know...
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Wow. You US guys can be so proud. You bring peace and democracy to the world.
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On September 30 2010 05:20 eiswand wrote:
Wow. You US guys can be so proud. You bring peace and democracy to the world.
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How about you try posting something useful instead of flamebaiting.
I have a few thoughts on the videos I have just watched. It is a reality that the US military has a system that does not promote a great deal of individual thought and initiative on the part of private soldiers, as opposed to the way, for example, Australian soldiers are trained to think as inidividuals within the unit. This has its advantages, but it does mean that US soldiers can do some very insensitive things (I'm not referring to murder here) that could be avoided if they just thought about it a bit more. I suspect something along the lines of more detailed media, information warfare, 'hearts and minds' training that gave soldiers a clearer understanding of the potential impact of stupid actions, particularly those caught on film, would help them out here.
I don't know if the US Army already has these things in place, or if it has taken action since these videos were filmed, if perhaps a US soldier who might browse here could enlighten me.
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On September 30 2010 05:20 eiswand wrote:
Wow. You US guys can be so proud. You bring peace and democracy to the world.
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Germany huh?...yea...
Like the poster above me said, poor attempt at a flamebait.
1/10
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That's one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen.
We've all read the books and heard the stories, war fucks with a person. Seeing how utterly dehumanized people can be (and how they can dehumanize others) is something entirely different.
I had a friend in high school who couldn't wait to enlist. As long as I can remember, even as a kid, he wanted to be in the army. I've no idea why, nobody in his family was in the military; but he dreamed about it like people dream about going into space, flying planes, etc. It was his passion, I guess.
After high school he enlisted. Eventually he was sent overseas.
He came back traumatized. He's never been the same since. He never saw combat - he just saw the leftovers, and the same type of shit depicted in that video. He can't hold down a job, he's socially inept, and he can't stop thinking about all the "awful shit" that he saw people do. He used to be a totally, fun, normal, balanced guy.
Fucking retarded.
The question for me is:
Do people get fucked up by war and/or the army; or does the army tend to draw on some small demographic of people who might be more apt to be desensitized in such a way? Perhaps people are just people regardless - and some of them are going to be sick fucks no matter where they are or what they're doing; the army just gives them guns.
I've no idea; but that's fucked up shit.
Aside from the puppy and the sheep - I can't believe some fucking adult would park in front of a destitute kid with disabilities and just poke fun at him. How unbelievably sad.
I just don't get it.
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I've met a number of people who have been deployed overseas on combat operations and while you can usually tell the difference between soldiers who have deployed and those who have not, generally they don't come back as wrecks though some of course do. Different experiences effect different people in different ways, and I've met people who are clearly disturbed by the thought that they have killed people and others who really aren't concerned about it but are far from psychopaths.
It is just my personal theory that the issue lies in how they are trained, or how they are not trained, and I imagine the demographic that the US Army tends to appeal to is an issue as well. Again, I would like to hear from a US soldier on the issue myself.
As a side note, I am not saying US soldiers are stupid, but some of them certainly are and they seem to be the people responsible for these sorts of actions.
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Why is it all the cereal killers have to come from my state...
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EPT
