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On August 06 2010 02:48 stafu wrote:
It's not you though, is it? Watch Moon, for example. There can only be one who is born naturally, and that matters a lot to your psyche if something like this did happen. It seems like so many of you aren't considering what it would feel like to be essentially an ersatz human/creation — the knowledge that I am now about because the real, original me died via teleportation would be way too much to handle.
Imagine the lack of true reality; imagine the feeling that comes with knowing you are created as a replacement for someone real, purely by scientific methods, not the will (or love) of two people. That is not something you just shrug off.
That is entirely a matter of perception. I'm guessing it would be more cultural than anything. If people were convinced it was normal they'd live their lives the same way as before.
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This is basically like sending a fax with a machine that shreds the document after faxing on the sending machine, the piece of paper on the other end will be exactly the same as the one that was sent but it won't ACTUALLY BE the same one, just a replica.
You would die, and another you would come into existence to replace you, but you yourself will not be transferred to the new body. So no, I would never use this teleporter.
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On August 06 2010 03:20 B1nary wrote:
It seems like some people who say they would use it don't understand that they will be volunteering to die... Consciousness is just a function of brain activity and ceases when you're disintegrated.
I would never use a teleporter, even if the designers claim that you will actually be "teleported" over instead of dying and a clone being created at the destination. The scary thing is that there is absolutely no way to know for sure whether you die or not. The clone will be an exact copy of you, so as far as the clone is concerned, he was successfully "teleported" to the destination. Like in The Prestige, the guy has no idea whether the guy standing on the machine is transported and a copy is left behind or a copy is transported and the one standing on the machine is left behind. That's what makes it so scary.
The scary thing is there's absolutely no way to know if you die every moment and are reborn the next moment as a different person.
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For anyone elses eyes it is exactly me walking out of the teleporter. Even the clone walking out of the teleporter thinks that it's the same person that walked into the teleport, he's got my memories after all.
But I'd think that my brain, my mind, that is HERE, would stop existing, the perfect copy would be another entity even if it's identical to me and thinks it is the proper me.
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if this machine constructed another replica of me without killing me, and i was standing next to my clone, i wouldn't be seeing out of its eyes, or feeling what it's feeling. this to me is proof that just because it's the same as me, doesn't make it me. so in that instant when i'm standing next to my clone, if u kill me, u have killed me and i'm dead. so it doesn't make a difference if u kill me at the exact same time that the clone comes into existence. the clone isn't me.
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On August 06 2010 03:20 hypercube wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 02:48 stafu wrote:
It's not you though, is it? Watch Moon, for example. There can only be one who is born naturally, and that matters a lot to your psyche if something like this did happen. It seems like so many of you aren't considering what it would feel like to be essentially an ersatz human/creation — the knowledge that I am now about because the real, original me died via teleportation would be way too much to handle.
Imagine the lack of true reality; imagine the feeling that comes with knowing you are created as a replacement for someone real, purely by scientific methods, not the will (or love) of two people. That is not something you just shrug off. That is entirely a matter of perception. I'm guessing it would be more cultural than anything. If people were convinced it was normal they'd live their lives the same way as before.
Perhaps, but I still think the fact that there is only one true human that lives until they first undergo this process would live in the minds of everyone who is aware. It's a bit of a scary thought in my opinion.
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On August 06 2010 03:19 Zeromaxx wrote:
I would use it to teleport to the fridge and back if it got me my beer/sandwich faster.
Not only would I use it but I would use it for everything that could possibly be beneficial.
Rofl so you would die for a sandwich/beer. You will die so your clone can have a sandwich.
People who would use it have really messed up mind in my opinion or don't really understand the topic. It's not even comparable with gradual replacement. If the difference in replacement size doesn't matter to you then why haven't you tried killing yourself? Teleportation will do it to you and you are fine with it. Or is the purpose of life only to carry over your genes and ideas? I thought it was enjoying your life.
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Sanya12364 Posts
LOL teleporting for a sandwich/beer.
Think about that for a second. You have a matter replicator that can apparently create a sandwich and beer.
A. Lugging around that device would be harder than carrying an entire fridge around.
B. If you have a matter replicator and it could create a sandwich/beer economically, why would you bother having a fridge at all.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
lol this turned into a good thread!
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On August 06 2010 04:01 Crawler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 03:19 Zeromaxx wrote:
I would use it to teleport to the fridge and back if it got me my beer/sandwich faster.
Not only would I use it but I would use it for everything that could possibly be beneficial. Rofl so you would die for a sandwich/beer. You will die so your clone can have a sandwich. People who would use it have really messed up mind in my opinion or don't really understand the topic. It's not even comparable with gradual replacement. If the difference in replacement size doesn't matter to you then why haven't you tried killing yourself? Teleportation will do it to you and you are fine with it. Or is the purpose of life only to carry over your genes and ideas? I thought it was enjoying your life.
What do you mean by, "haven't you tried killing yourself" if I kill myself my conciousness ends, I cease to exist. If a reassembled me continues after I have been disassembled then conciousness continues and I continue to exist.
How about this. What if everything in your body was destroyed except for your brain and you transplanted your brain to a exact replica of a body. Is that body still you? Or say you completely die, through brain death, and by some process you are reanimated and brought back to life. Is that body or person the original you, even though that person is already technically dead by your definition?
If its only the sudden replacement of molecules that gets to you heres another hypothetical situation: What if you are disassembled into your base molecules, those molecules are brought to another location and then reassembeled to be exactly the same as before, would you count that as a new person or the same person?
Delving even deeper, say your body dies but I transfer your brain into a computer and store it there until a new body can be made for you. Then I transfer the brain file into your new body, is deleting that brain file the same as deleting the existance of a human?
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On August 06 2010 04:28 RifleCow wrote:
What do you mean by, "haven't you tried killing yourself" if I kill myself my conciousness ends, I cease to exist. If a reassembled me continues after I have been disassembled then conciousness continues and I continue to exist.
This is the very point that's being argued here. Just because you're being cloned doesn't mean your consciousness is being transferred to the new body. It just means a new consciousness is being created. This new consciousness, while possessing your memories is not necessarily your own. Really, the OP's question amounts to:
"If it was possible to create a perfect physical clone of yourself, would you care about dying so long as the clone continued to exist?"
Or
"If you died, but a perfect physical clone of you suddenly appeared in a different place at the same time, did you really die in the first place?"
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On August 06 2010 04:09 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
lol this turned into a good thread!
I knew it would work out  . The title is impossible not to click on, it can't be sidetracked into "but what if something goes wrong" (dead end) and the ship of theseus is always irresistable.
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Fuck it, I'd jump in with both feet. Your going to die sooner or later anyway. This is a pretty kick ass way to go, and it will let you experience so much more shit in life before your body dies. Imagin being able to teleport to other planets and stuff. If there no afterlife I won't really give a crap if im dead, and if there is a afterlife me and my cloneselfs are going to have a alot of stuff to talk about. Who knows maybe your conciousness/soul will transfer over if your body is remade, and if that happens even better.
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Sanya12364 Posts
The is a conundrum. If you cloned someone with this device instead of teleporting across some distance and we assumed that everything was recreated perfectly and exactly as it was before then both the original and the clone would think of themselves as the same person. Their sense of identity would be exactly the same.
At that instant there would be two copies of the same person. Only after the cloning process would their identities start diverging.
So the question that needs to be answered is if there is some special property of life that cannot be replicated by by perfect matter replication.
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On August 06 2010 04:37 InToTheWannaB wrote:
Fuck it, I'd jump in with both feet. Your going to die sooner or later anyway. This is a pretty kick ass way to go, and it will let you experience so much more shit in life before your body dies. Imagin being able to teleport to other planets and stuff. If there no afterlife I won't really give a crap if im dead, and if there is a afterlife me and my cloneselfs are going to have a alot of stuff to talk about. Who knows maybe your conciousness/soul will transfer over if your body is remade, and if that happens even better.
In that case, if you could die in order to teleport someone else you've never met to distant planets so that they could have loads to talk about, would you do it?
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On August 06 2010 04:37 InToTheWannaB wrote:
If there no afterlife I won't really give a crap if im dead, and if there is a afterlife me and my cloneselfs are going to have a alot of stuff to talk about. Who knows maybe your conciousness/soul will transfer over if your body is remade, and if that happens even better.
I like the optimism ^^ The absolute best-case scenario would be that the consciousness gets transfered over.
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On August 06 2010 04:43 B1nary wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 04:37 InToTheWannaB wrote:
If there no afterlife I won't really give a crap if im dead, and if there is a afterlife me and my cloneselfs are going to have a alot of stuff to talk about. Who knows maybe your conciousness/soul will transfer over if your body is remade, and if that happens even better. I like the optimism ^^ The absolute best-case scenario would be that the consciousness gets transfered over.
Well considering the fact that the OP clearly states that the machine kills you, I think the assumption is that your consciousness isn't actually getting transferred over.
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On August 06 2010 04:44 LegendaryZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 04:43 B1nary wrote:On August 06 2010 04:37 InToTheWannaB wrote:
If there no afterlife I won't really give a crap if im dead, and if there is a afterlife me and my cloneselfs are going to have a alot of stuff to talk about. Who knows maybe your conciousness/soul will transfer over if your body is remade, and if that happens even better. I like the optimism ^^ The absolute best-case scenario would be that the consciousness gets transfered over. Well considering the fact that the OP clearly states that the machine kills you, I think the assumption is that your consciousness isn't actually getting transferred over.
What do you mean by "consciousness transfered over". If the other you has been reassembled to be you, then you have the same consciouness, you only begin to differ if both individuals continue to exist after they step out of the machine. If one is destroyed then it is not death but teleportation.
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To discuss the point that some have made that the constant molecular change that organisms undergo should be no less threatening than total molecular decomposition:
As someone mentioned, total decomposition introduces the unique problem of discontinuity. Once the organism is completely decomposes, it ceases to be qualified, at least in the scientific, biological sense, as a living thing. It is no longer alive. For previously sentient organisms, sentience, along with immediate consciousness and long-term memories, are destroyed.
To answer all versions of the original question:
Termination of my life via disintegration of my body is final. I desire continued survival, and am opposed to any arrangement involving my body's total destruction.
True recreation of any being is impossible as it implies the recreation of a state of being which requires absolute control over the universe itself.
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On August 06 2010 03:19 Zeromaxx wrote:
I would use it to teleport to the fridge and back if it got me my beer/sandwich faster.
Not only would I use it but I would use it for everything that could possibly be beneficial.
Use it to transport the beer to you^^. Who cares if it's the same beer or merely a copy of that beer if it tastes the same. 
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EPT
