A while ago I went to a certain unnamed grocery store. I mostly wanted to buy their 15lb avg seedless watermelon for $2.99 each. Of course, I also bought a few extra things and ended up spending about 15 dollars.
Because I had quite a few things to carry, I didn't check the receipt carefully until I got on the bus. Then I realized that the cashier forgot to scan the watermelon so I practically took it for free (by accident!).
YUM YUM. Aren't free stuffs more delicious than usual?
Free watermelon aside, I want to ask a more serious question. That is, assuming for the moment that I have no intention of going back to the grocery store to give them three dollars (or return the watermelon) in the foreseeable future, does my action constitute theft?
Here's my own opinion. I am not a lawyer nor in training for law, so don't bash me too hard for this.
I think this may constitute theft. Theft is usually defined as an act that deprives one's property as well as mens rea. In this case I did take an watermelon without paying. Also, assuming that I have no intention of going back to the grocery store to return the item after I learn that the cashier did not scan it, I am knowingly keeping it by fraudulent means since I did not pay for it.
My major concern is whether or not the cashier's mistake is meaningful at all in this incident.
No really, i think it's their mistake if the checker didin't scan it. But there's people who just want to be friendly and all that shit and they else pay for it later or return that stuff.
As for legality... enforcement is part of the law, so if it isn't enforced, you'll never be found guilty. In fact, admitting it on this website probably raises your miniscule probability of persecution by a hair.
However, if you're asking about legality, you're asking the wrong question. Laws are an approximation to what constitutes ethical behavior. Society is NOT held together by a list of laws... The people who help each other out of kindness... The people who sacrifice their well-being for others... The simple gesture of "thank you" to a complete stranger... Wouldn't you rather be in a world where people think about what's right and wrong instead of consulting a list of laws and trying to get out on technicalities?
On August 01 2010 11:37 StRyKeR wrote: As for legality... enforcement is part of the law, so if it isn't enforced, you'll never be found guilty. In fact, admitting it on this website probably raises your miniscule probability of persecution by a hair.
However, if you're asking about legality, you're asking the wrong question. Laws are an approximation to what constitutes ethical behavior. Society is NOT held together by a list of laws... The people who help each other out of kindness... The people who sacrifice their well-being for others... The simple gesture of "thank you" to a complete stranger... Wouldn't you rather be in a world where people think about what's right and wrong instead of consulting a list of laws and trying to get out on technicalities?
Remember Abe!
There's definitely a line I wouldn't cross, for sure. If I found out that I forgot to pay for something in California and then moved to Chicago, I wouldn't go all the way back to pay for it. Please don't mistake me -- I'm not trying to speak from a position of superiority, just common sense / vague moral musings.
I obviously don't think I will be thrown to jail because of this (if I did, posting it here would be somewhat stupid). I am just pondering if my action is technically illegal assuming I am not returning it.
I also agree that morally I should return the item and tell the cashier if it is feasible or easy to do. In fact that if I saw it right-a-way I'd have told her. To be honest, though, I am only interested in legal aspects right now. For example, what if the unscanned item was not a 3 dollar watermelon, but something that is worth $30,000?
If you didn't knowingly leave without paying then I wouldn't hold you at all to blame. They made a basic human error, it happens and to be honest I expect the store knows it happens. They most likely have a small part of their budget marked cashier error, the cost of which is represented in miniscule increases in prices across the board. It all works out in the end.
Accidental theft is still theft. Even if it's accidental. Hence, accidental "theft."
How much more innocent is involuntary manslaughter compared to premeditated murder? I don't know. But in both cases, someone dies. How much more innocent is accidental theft to good ol' fashioned five finger discounts? I don't know. But either way, someone gets a watermelon from the store without paying the cashier.
I do think, though, that what really matters is what the person does after realizing the accident that determines wrong or right.
EDIT: I will admit, though... If it were me, I'd be like, "Well, it's just a 3 dollar watermelon. I mean, come on. They probably don't really mind it, wouldn't really care that much if I come back to pay for it, and I really don't want to drive all the way back there." Yeah, I know. I'm terrible. But at least I'm honest, too.
You're going to jail buddy! I'm an undercover agent ^^
Seriously, if you care about it enough to post on TL.net you should definately return and pay the 3$ And ofcourse they can't sue you because they forgot to bill you (except in America). If it was a larger amount of money I doubt this would have happened, if you were spending 30,000$ I think you'd check the receipt
Most grocery stores have to do physical inventory in fresh departments regularly (the store i worked at did them once a month, and twice a year for our non fresh departments). Considering they have to count everything on the sales floor as well as in the back, its really hard to keep track of produce because imagine 2 pallets of watermelons (whole watermelons in those big bins). Even if someone counted them all, there is time between counting them and entering them into the system, therefore between you counting and inventory finishing/finalizing, someone could have ran by and bought 10 watermelons and you can't track that right away.
The way we did it was we just cut off a time period of a slow day and stopped sales for inventory (in the system, but you were open and all orders done after the cut off were put in a kind of wait line to be taken out of the system until inventory finished). But the same problem occurs if someone buys an item you haven't counted yet, it just ends up not being counted and its not a huge deal.
Also, it's the cashiers job to make sure you pay for everything, and if they miss something then its more their fault than yours, unless of course you are intentionally trying to hide something =P. I used to train my cashiers to check to make sure the person put all there groceries up on the counter before putting bagged product back in, if someone misses something small its normally not a big deal, the grocery store won't even notice small items gone until inventory anyway.
On August 01 2010 11:50 The_Pacifist wrote: How much more innocent is accidental theft to good ol' fashioned five finger discounts? I don't know. But either way, someone gets a watermelon from the store without paying the cashier.
well if you look at it from the opposite side, is an accidental gift still a gift? If intention is what matters, then it is not theft. If results is the only thing that matters, then the fact is you went to pay for it and she handed it to you for free. So thats also not theft.
so, playing devil's advocate, you can enjoy watermelon guilt free :D
This happened to me once with some razors... I just didn't bother either. I suppose it's probably technically illegal, but that's just what I assume. Either way, nothing you'd ever actually get charged with.
You told the store what items you were purchasing, and they told you the cost, and you paid the cost. The watermelon is now yours. It's not your responsibility to decide what they charge you for their merchandise.
It would be polite/neighborly for you to try to correct their mistake after the fact, but $2.99 doesn't really matter.
I know that this was disgused in Sweden and basicaly it goes like this:
If the shop is dumb enough to give you stuff for free you have no obligation to correct them, at least if you do not spot the mistake immidietly. Having to go back just to pay $3 is not required.
Now, if the amount is much bigger, say that you bought ten supercars and got one for free without knowing then the judge can assume that you noticed the mistake and since the amount of money in this case is considerable you can be charged of theft.
The rule of thumb is that if the shop gives you stuff for free you don't really have to worry about it.
well if they forgot to scan it then that technically means the shop is giving it to you for free doesn't it.
you go to restaurant ,waiters too dumb to check the receipt, you eat the food and leave. don't think you stole the food since you never had the intention of eating without paying
I work for certain, unnamed retailers and wholesalers and relax. You will be scoffed at for explaining to the girls at the customer service desk that you either one; are returning the watermelon, or two; ponying up the cash for something that you already left with. Beside produce is probably not merchandised the same way other products are. When they go bad they get scanned out and thrown away, sometimes resold as compost to a third party company.
All that aside though the cashier is the one who will be at fault come evaluation time. Given she missed a big ass watermelon, its not a stretch to think her drawer will be off a time or two and get fired.
I don't think you are going to go to federal ass pounding prison... or prison at all. Use the grocery store as normal and if they say anything to you about it just say oh yea i wonder why the bill was cheaper problem solve, also i would not think anyone in law enforcement would see it as theft it is like stealing sips at a fill your own slushie thing.
The cashier is the primary responsible. It was her responsibility to scan properly all items and inform you of the price.
If you had done anything to prevent her from scanning the watermelon, such as hiding it, then it would have been considered theft.
You can only blame yourself ethically. If you realized you owe a company some money, then you should pay back to be an honest person. But really, it is not a big deal at all considering the price of the good. Plus, you would have to go back there, get another watermelon under the same price, have it scanned to register in their system and pay for it before placing it back in the shelf. Most likely, each water melon has a distinctive code bar, and might count as double sale in their registries... so really, it is not worth the trouble.
Just keep your watermelon, and if you are honest enough to have at least considered giving it back, maybe you deserve a free watermelon.
It's probably "theft" by definition, but who the fuck cares? Just eat the damn thing already, or ship it to me. A fucking small-ass watermelon here costs like 15$
Why do you even care if its illegal? Nobody is going to take legal action over a 3$ cashier mistake. It would cost you more than $3 to drive back to the store and give them $3 for said watermelon.
I'll let Audrey Hepburn from 1949 answer your question for you. I don't know about you guys, but I think that she's more reputable than any joe schmo in this thread.
Its only stealing if you get caught. Same with everything in life really. If no one sees your good deeds then they might as well have been God's will or luck for someone else. This is an interesting realization for me...
On August 01 2010 12:36 Confuse wrote: Its only stealing if you get caught. Same with everything in life really. If no one sees your good deeds then they might as well have been God's will or luck for someone else. This is an interesting realization for me...
its still considered stealing if you intend to take the item without paying for it and NOT get caught.
On August 01 2010 12:36 Confuse wrote: Its only stealing if you get caught. Same with everything in life really. If no one sees your good deeds then they might as well have been God's will or luck for someone else. This is an interesting realization for me...
its still considered stealing if you intend to take the item without paying for it and NOT get caught.
If a tree falls in a forest and no one hears it... are you 100 % sure it makes a sound? : )
You must have a guilty state of mind for it to be considered a crime, you did it without intending to, not a crime. yay google.
Actually by realising the mistake and keeping the item, without attempting to return it to the rightful owner, his appropriation becomes dishonest and the mens rea for the offence is present at that time.
It wasn't a theft when he left the store, it became a theft when he gets home, realises the mistake and decides to keep it anyway!
On August 01 2010 12:36 Confuse wrote: Its only stealing if you get caught. Same with everything in life really. If no one sees your good deeds then they might as well have been God's will or luck for someone else. This is an interesting realization for me...
its still considered stealing if you intend to take the item without paying for it and NOT get caught.
Yes it is still stealing, but in this case it is not, as the person who took it without paying did not intend to do it.
A) legality is irrelevant. Most people here seem to agree on this. B) there's no 'fault' worth apportioning. It happened, nobody had any malicious intent, and the harm is negligible. Doesn't matter if it's the cashier's fault or not. That shouldn't affect your view of the event and it shouldn't alter your decision on the point below C) the real question is what you should do now. To my mind, the moral action is to optimize the benefit of everyone. At this point, explaining the issue and paying them is probably going to introduce more net hassle into the system than pleasure/profit. So I would say the most moral course of action is to eat the melon, and enjoy it.
(On the other hand, if you'd just left the counter when you discovered the mistake, ideally you would go back and give them some money.)
On August 01 2010 12:43 UniversalSnip wrote: The way I view it
A) legality is irrelevant. Most people here seem to agree on this. B) there's no 'fault' worth apportioning. It happened, nobody had any malicious intent, and the harm is negligible. Doesn't matter if it's the cashier's fault or not. That shouldn't affect your view of the event and it shouldn't alter your decision on the point below C) the real question is what you should do now. To my mind, the moral action is to optimize the benefit of everyone. At this point, explaining the issue and paying them is probably going to introduce more net hassle into the system than pleasure/profit. So I would say the most moral course of action is to eat the melon, and enjoy it.
(On the other hand, if you'd just left the counter when you discovered the mistake, ideally you would go back and give them some money.)
Really? Its so hard to go back and say, hey i didnt get charged for this the other day, i realised when i got home, heres 3 dollars
It all depends on how polite you are and how happy the people at the store are. They are able to put a $3 watermelon on your criminal record regardless of your alibi. As long as you don't get caught, stolen goods will taste sweeter.
On August 01 2010 12:43 UniversalSnip wrote: The way I view it
A) legality is irrelevant. Most people here seem to agree on this. B) there's no 'fault' worth apportioning. It happened, nobody had any malicious intent, and the harm is negligible. Doesn't matter if it's the cashier's fault or not. That shouldn't affect your view of the event and it shouldn't alter your decision on the point below C) the real question is what you should do now. To my mind, the moral action is to optimize the benefit of everyone. At this point, explaining the issue and paying them is probably going to introduce more net hassle into the system than pleasure/profit. So I would say the most moral course of action is to eat the melon, and enjoy it.
(On the other hand, if you'd just left the counter when you discovered the mistake, ideally you would go back and give them some money.)
Really? Its so hard to go back and say, hey i didnt get charged for this the other day, i realised when i got home, heres 3 dollars
Well, I think it wouldn't give much pleasure to either person to do that unless you got the same cashier. I also wouldn't go back to the store and get/cut in line specifically to do that.
On August 01 2010 12:36 Confuse wrote: Its only stealing if you get caught. Same with everything in life really. If no one sees your good deeds then they might as well have been God's will or luck for someone else. This is an interesting realization for me...
its still considered stealing if you intend to take the item without paying for it and NOT get caught.
Yes it is still stealing, but in this case it is not, as the person who took it without paying did not intend to do it.
well who is it to judge whether the person who took it without playing is with intention or not..:/
On August 01 2010 12:36 Confuse wrote: Its only stealing if you get caught. Same with everything in life really. If no one sees your good deeds then they might as well have been God's will or luck for someone else. This is an interesting realization for me...
its still considered stealing if you intend to take the item without paying for it and NOT get caught.
Yes it is still stealing, but in this case it is not, as the person who took it without paying did not intend to do it.
well who is it to judge whether the person who took it without playing is with intention or not..:/
I don't know the legislation in the US, but under the common law, the grocery store can sue under conversion. On the other hand, if you didn't take the watermelon but the girl planted it in your trolley, then they could still claim under unjust enrichment.
Actually, that could be all wrong since I studied torts ages ago
Whether it is theft or not is not really the point, but if you feel guilty about it, there is an easy way to feel better about it... The next time you are at that grocery store and find you were overcharged for something that was on sale, or forgot a coupon and paid full price, just remember that watermelon and let it pass.
On August 01 2010 12:36 Confuse wrote: Its only stealing if you get caught. Same with everything in life really. If no one sees your good deeds then they might as well have been God's will or luck for someone else. This is an interesting realization for me...
its still considered stealing if you intend to take the item without paying for it and NOT get caught.
Yes it is still stealing, but in this case it is not, as the person who took it without paying did not intend to do it.
well who is it to judge whether the person who took it without playing is with intention or not..:/
A jury of the alleged offender's peers?
And it could take place in a court room! In front of a judge!
On August 01 2010 11:31 illu wrote: A while ago I went to a certain unnamed grocery store. I mostly wanted to buy their 15lb avg seedless watermelon for $2.99 each. Of course, I also bought a few extra things and ended up spending about 15 dollars.
Because I had quite a few things to carry, I didn't check the receipt carefully until I got on the bus. Then I realized that the cashier forgot to scan the watermelon so I practically took it for free (by accident!).
YUM YUM. Aren't free stuffs more delicious than usual?
Free watermelon aside, I want to ask a more serious question. That is, assuming for the moment that I have no intention of going back to the grocery store to give them three dollars (or return the watermelon) in the foreseeable future, does my action constitute theft?
Here's my own opinion. I am not a lawyer nor in training for law, so don't bash me too hard for this.
I think this may constitute theft. Theft is usually defined as an act that deprives one's property as well as mens rea. In this case I did take an watermelon without paying. Also, assuming that I have no intention of going back to the grocery store to return the item after I learn that the cashier did not scan it, I am knowingly keeping it by fraudulent means since I did not pay for it.
My major concern is whether or not the cashier's mistake is meaningful at all in this incident.
Just saw your edit with the spoiler so I thought I'd respond further (and I am a criminal lawyer and have been practicing here in Aus for three years):
You're pretty much spot on. A criminal offence is the combination of actus reus and mens rea (action with criminal intent). Specifically, theft is a dishonest appropriation with an intention to permanently deprive the owner of the good. An appropriation can be constituted by taking it, by using it in any fashion as if you were the owner and so forth (appropriation is widely defined and I wont go over it all here).
In this instance, you did not commit a theft when you took the item home by accident without paying as you did not at that time possess the mens rea for the offence. That is the extent to which the cashier's mistake vitiates your responsibility. However upon realising the error of the store worker, you make the choice to exercise control (rights of an owner) over the item and keep it (thus making a dishonest appropriation with the intention of permanently depriving the store of the item). It is at that time that you commit the theft.
But, like I said earlier and like many others have said.. who cares at this point
On August 01 2010 12:26 Cambium wrote: It's probably "theft" by definition, but who the fuck cares? Just eat the damn thing already, or ship it to me. A fucking small-ass watermelon here costs like 15$
LOL hahahah fukcing japanese watermelons actually just everything in japan is so damn expensive.
I love when cashiers fuck up, take it and be happy.
Back when I was in to trading cards I once bought 3 cases, and the cashier scanned one of them twice, then went back to delete it and deleted more than she should of so I ended up getting 3 cases for the price of one, not sure of she didn't notice the 300-400$ different in pricing.
Keep the watermelon and don't look back. Grocery store cashiers press down on the scale to increase the price you pay for produce that is priced per weight. OP, you are just a little closer to getting an honest deal.
On August 01 2010 11:31 illu wrote: A while ago I went to a certain unnamed grocery store. I mostly wanted to buy their 15lb avg seedless watermelon for $2.99 each. Of course, I also bought a few extra things and ended up spending about 15 dollars.
Because I had quite a few things to carry, I didn't check the receipt carefully until I got on the bus. Then I realized that the cashier forgot to scan the watermelon so I practically took it for free (by accident!).
YUM YUM. Aren't free stuffs more delicious than usual?
Free watermelon aside, I want to ask a more serious question. That is, assuming for the moment that I have no intention of going back to the grocery store to give them three dollars (or return the watermelon) in the foreseeable future, does my action constitute theft?
Here's my own opinion. I am not a lawyer nor in training for law, so don't bash me too hard for this.
I think this may constitute theft. Theft is usually defined as an act that deprives one's property as well as mens rea. In this case I did take an watermelon without paying. Also, assuming that I have no intention of going back to the grocery store to return the item after I learn that the cashier did not scan it, I am knowingly keeping it by fraudulent means since I did not pay for it.
My major concern is whether or not the cashier's mistake is meaningful at all in this incident.
Just saw your edit with the spoiler so I thought I'd respond further (and I am a criminal lawyer and have been practicing here in Aus for three years):
You're pretty much spot on. A criminal offence is the combination of actus reus and mens rea (action with criminal intent). Specifically, theft is a dishonest appropriation with an intention to permanently deprive the owner of the good. An appropriation can be constituted by taking it, by using it in any fashion as if you were the owner and so forth (appropriation is widely defined and I wont go over it all here).
In this instance, you did not commit a theft when you took the item home by accident without paying as you did not at that time possess the mens rea for the offence. That is the extent to which the cashier's mistake vitiates your responsibility. However upon realising the error of the store worker, you make the choice to exercise control (rights of an owner) over the item and keep it (thus making a dishonest appropriation with the intention of permanently depriving the store of the item). It is at that time that you commit the theft.
But, like I said earlier and like many others have said.. who cares at this point
Good to know
On August 01 2010 11:35 Aukai wrote: Can't you just eat the god damn watermelon?
I haven't eaten the watermelon yet Not that I am worried about legalities, but I also bought strawberries so I am eating those first.
On August 01 2010 14:01 Zealotdriver wrote: Keep the watermelon and don't look back. Grocery store cashiers press down on the scale to increase the price you pay for produce that is priced per weight. OP, you are just a little closer to getting an honest deal.
That would be a bitch thing to do. Why would a lowly cashier even give a shit about making extra cash for a store.
On August 01 2010 14:01 Zealotdriver wrote: Keep the watermelon and don't look back. Grocery store cashiers press down on the scale to increase the price you pay for produce that is priced per weight. OP, you are just a little closer to getting an honest deal.
Are you kidding? The vast majority of cashiers don't get paid nearly enough to care about ripping you off.
On August 01 2010 14:01 Zealotdriver wrote: Keep the watermelon and don't look back. Grocery store cashiers press down on the scale to increase the price you pay for produce that is priced per weight. OP, you are just a little closer to getting an honest deal.
That would be a bitch thing to do. Why would a lowly cashier even give a shit about making extra cash for a store.
The only explanation would be that the cashier also owns the store.
I actually went to a reasonably big grocery store chain in Canada. What you said is definitely not valid here.
The obvious right thing to do is mention it next time you go to the store and offer to pay for it.
Assuming the store doesn't "deserve" its losses, but let the employees decide that...
Come to think of it, there probably isn't a mechanism in place to track the lost inventory - perhaps zero revenue loss will indicate that all went well, but for larger purchases there is nothing keeping a disgruntled employee from pocketing your money and making you an unknowing accomplice to theft.
Marge Simpsons ate some grapes in the grocery store, Lisa asked her to check out the two grapes she ate. Cashier: Can I get a price check on two grapes? "two measly grapes?" :p On a Black Friday in Fry's Electronics,I got a wireless PS2 controller for free. Wasn't intentional, i put everything on the table and the clerk missed it. Turns out i walked out for free. I found out by noticing the controller was missing on the receipt.
In a CVS (pharmacy), I bought a deodorant along with other stuff, as I got home, i found out the deodorant was scanned twice. (Fuck my $3.00)
for the topic, I wouldnt care much because they have no proof I got out for free (maybe they have to count every inventory, go over security cams, etc), as well as I have no proof when I walked out the store I had purchase one or two deodorant. (maybe some hoodlum will try this, but for 3.00 or something small i would let it go.)
On August 01 2010 14:01 Zealotdriver wrote: Keep the watermelon and don't look back. Grocery store cashiers press down on the scale to increase the price you pay for produce that is priced per weight. OP, you are just a little closer to getting an honest deal.
Since when? I used to work as one and every scale I ever used refused to give you a reading if the weight changed while it was measuring. They measure to hundredths of a pound, it's IMPOSSIBLE to press down on a scale with sufficiently consistent pressure.
Well they made the mistake, not you! demanding that you go through extra work to return something as cheap as a watermelon obviously doesn't make sense.
In order for you to be convicted of a theft charge, there first must be someone that witnesses the suspect intentionally concealing an object with the intent to take it without paying for it. In addition, the suspect must demonstrate they were going to leave the store intentionally without paying for it (such as concealing it, then walking past open cash registers towards the exit). No matter how hard a prosecution tried, you would not be able to be prosecuted for theft.
I am now imagining someone stuffing a watermelon in their shorts and trying to sneak out of the store with it. Out of everything in a grocery store, I think a 15 lb watermelon is probably the hardest item to steal.
Yeah, I also think it's theft. Let's put it this way: you somehow found an expensive luxury item on the corner of street. If you don't return it and decide to keep it, you'd be found guilty for owning something that's not yours. But still, legally, your case won't end up in court or anything even if you get caught, assuming you live in america.
I'm no lawyer but this is what happens in my work place.
For the sake of argument, if OP wasn't about a water melon but a 30K necklace then OP will definitely be liable should this occur.
However, from memory, OP's obligation extends no beyond the act of informing the concerned party of the situation and assuming that it is the retailer who made the mistake, then it is up to retailer to reimburse any time/cost spend on retrieving the item.
Example would be that I was mistakenly given a $500 dollar smart phone instead of the $120 Nokia brick and then I moved interstate. The retailer found out and contacted me about it but refused to pay for shipping then I have every right to hold onto the phone and after a statute period the phone would be legally mine.
Similar things happen all the time in retail. Customer paid less for an item because the ticket scanned wrong or this and that. I'm pretty sure unless the retailer can prove that it is a deliberate act( e.g. tempering the ticket.) on customer's part then it is up to them to offer an acceptable compensation for the customer.
Of course, in most cases, common sense will prevail as the cost of retrieval out weights 99.99% the product. But in case where the value of the item far exceeds the cost of retrieval, then they will come after you.
If you refuse to return a 30K necklace and retailer is willing to offer you adequate compensation for your time then retailer will sue as they are in a position where they have undergone all possible settlement and you are being a twat and the retailer will win. This is when it becomes theft.
I very much doubt that it will be a criminal case at first though, it will most likely be a civil case as the interaction between retailer and customer is bound by contract law and if you still don't comply and skip the country with the 30K necklace then it will become a criminal case.
Eat your watermelon, son. It's the store's fault, and their loss. They ain't gonna put you in jail for it, nor are they gonna black list you or anything -.-. If anyone ever says anything, just tell them you didn't look at the receipt and you didn't know ._., but honestly who the hell is going to press legal charge for a slice of watermelon for 2.99$ a piece -_-;
Don't worry, grocery stores are making so much money right now in the recession. Seriously, as someone who works in this industry I cannot think of a single grocery store chain in my state that isn't doing incredibly well during the recession (unless things like Fresh Market count as grocery stores).
I once did this with a water bottle, I was buying stuff and walked 2 miles back home from Wal-Mart. I didn't even notice I got the water bottle so I went back and gave it to Wal-Mart (I didn't drink from it.)
The lady just opened it and started drinking it, she didn't seem to care that I stole it, but at least I did what my parents would tell me to do :D
That happened to me several time, only once i saw it immediately and told it the woman who was scanning the stuff; she gave me a "i cant believe how dumb you are" stare.
So i thought "fuck you all, i was just being honest, it's your job and i don't mind paying my food" and since then i always enjoy having unscanned item. Especially the time the guy forgot to scan a ps2 game and a pad.
In the end it felt like being honest isn't worth shit. So yeah your free stuff IS more delicious than the paid one.
On August 01 2010 19:43 Badjas wrote: Pretty sure your shopping earned them a net profit regardless
That's an interesting question. Considering I only bought discount items, I'd say probably they did not earn a net profit
this is totally irrelevant to anything, but you know stores get credits from factories for putting things on sale right? They actually get a bit extra than the discount because the clerks are expected to stock the items more frequently (I guess they use this money to hire more ppl??)
On August 01 2010 14:01 Zealotdriver wrote: Keep the watermelon and don't look back. Grocery store cashiers press down on the scale to increase the price you pay for produce that is priced per weight. OP, you are just a little closer to getting an honest deal.
Watermelons almost always have a fixed price as opposed to being weighed, not only that but most grocery store scales can detect if it's simply being pressed down and it will rule the weight unstable. Our cashiers get chewed out for missing items since we're a private store and we cannot afford any unnecessary losses as careless as one like this. $3.00 obviously seems like nothing but so does ten cents for a paper bag. We spend $50,000 a year on handled bags, it adds up. Just my opinion, I think you should go give them the $3.00. Course I'm biased
I work in a grocery store. If the CASHIER forgets to scan your item and GIVES it to you, then its NOT theft. It would be considered a mistake of the cashier.
Once I went to buy some food and beer. Once I got to home I was wondering how the items were so cheap. I checked the receipt I noticed that cashier had only taken one bottle of beer into account when I bought 12-pack of them I say it's not my fault and heck no I was not going to ride back with a bike to the shop.
If the cashier tricks me to carry 11bottles of beers to my home I could as well drink those beers as a payment for that!
On August 02 2010 03:26 Qeet wrote: americans so brainwashed, whatever they do they think it's a crime
I think we should invent a new game called failscrabble. Your post is high scoring because you packed so much stupidity into only eleven words, and you get a triple phrase score because the OP isn't even american.
I will be watching your future plays with considerable interest.
I do that so often. Never notice until I get home because I don't check receipts. I don't think it's my problem because the person did a bad job. If I notice that she doesn't scan it then I tell her but I'm not always paying attention.
If you're not going to admit you were referring to residents of the US, I'm not going to waste my time forcing you to. It's obvious to everyone, and it's equally obvious how graceless you are in defeat.
if i would refer to us residents i would write us-americans like everyone else but you wrote that he isn't from the continent america, lol it's like telling germans they are not europeans
so what, both your links state that american refers to us-americans and/or the citizens of the whole continent, and if your language doesn't distinguish between them, almost every other does, seen in the wikipedia link under "international use"
You expect me to believe that when you referred to americans you were describing your stereotype of the residents of brazil, canada, jamaica, argentina and chile in addition to those of the united states?
On August 02 2010 08:10 Qeet wrote: so what, both your links state that american refers to us-americans and/or the citizens of the whole continent, and if your language doesn't distinguish between them, almost every other does, seen in the wikipedia link under "international use"
btw: the stupidity of you guys supports my point
Oh god here we go again...
In English the accepted term for someone from the US is 'American' In many other languages they use the equivalent of "United Statesian" or "US-American" In English though neither of those really work, so for the last ~250 years at least in the UK, US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand 'American' has been the correct word for someone from the US.
Can we not discuss how to call certain things and certain people? Look, in Dutch, orange is referred to as "sinaasappel", or China's apple. Are we going to make a big deal out of that as well?
I once went out of the shop with a 100$ trousers. I realized it like 10 meters after the exit. No one had noticed, but I came back to pay it. I know I sound retarded
This one time I went to change a vest for a larger size. So I give her the vest, she gives me the money, I say I want to exchange it for this one. "Oh, ok", types some stuff in, gives me the vest. I walk out with my money and a new vest.
@OP You sir are a good person for making a thread about this and discussing this and would be willingly to go back and pay them back if you really thought it was theft (didn't read most of post so I skipped all pages :p).
This also happened to me. I bought a pack of Red bull when I did my groceries and it costs about 5 euro's (don't know exact price). Normally I don't watch the receipt but when I payed I just took the receipt and went home. When I was at home I saw the cashier priced 2 times my Red bull :@ so I payed double the price for 1 amount.
Ofcourse I went like, im not bothering a 15 min walk back but I'm pissed I payed too much.
Then the 2nd time. I bought some stuff for my groceries which I do every few days. I payed and went home and then checked receipt cuz I saw I had waaay too much money for things I buy every few days. There I saw that there were multiple items not scanned so I got them for free but were over 5 euro's (about 6.5 dollars?). And funny part is that it was done by the same cashier (who I don't know btw). Karma ? :p
On August 01 2010 11:39 illu wrote: I am only interested in legal aspects right now. For example, what if the unscanned item was not a 3 dollar watermelon, but something that is worth $30,000?
On August 01 2010 11:50 The_Pacifist wrote: Accidental theft is still theft. Even if it's accidental. Hence, accidental "theft."
How much more innocent is involuntary manslaughter compared to premeditated murder? I don't know. But in both cases, someone dies. How much more innocent is accidental theft to good ol' fashioned five finger discounts? I don't know. But either way, someone gets a watermelon from the store without paying the cashier.
I do think, though, that what really matters is what the person does after realizing the accident that determines wrong or right.
EDIT: I will admit, though... If it were me, I'd be like, "Well, it's just a 3 dollar watermelon. I mean, come on. They probably don't really mind it, wouldn't really care that much if I come back to pay for it, and I really don't want to drive all the way back there." Yeah, I know. I'm terrible. But at least I'm honest, too.
Yes. If you knowingly refuse to return the watermelon, it is theft.
However, I think you should take into account, the effort involved in returning the item. You would have had to get off the bus, ride another bus back to the store, ride a third bus back home, and spend possibly an hour of your time (and maybe money for another fare) for a cashier's mistake.
Even if you told your story to the police, they wouldn't charge you with a crime, so I would rest easy.
Ownus is on the store. It's their shrinkage to deal with and is done through the store's loss prevention (if they have any). That's both training employees and doing whatever else, bag checks etc.
On August 03 2010 08:10 RedTerror wrote: You took something without paying for it, they didn't intentionally give it to you for free so in my book it is technically theft.
Well actually there is mental culpability to account for here.
To steal something you have to intentionally or knowingly want to deprive someone of its value to count as theft. If the cashier had made an error and he had never checked the reciept than he could never really be charged for Theft in reality because he never INTENDED to steal the object...the cashier simply made a mistake.
Whether or not this changes after he checked the reciept is up to a bit more debate. I personally think that this depends on the value of the object itself if it's after the fact like this.
The cashier made the error and this isnt at all a matter of theft.
You made a contract with the cashier of one watermelon for the price of 2.99. The cashier made a contract with you containing one watermelon for free. (practically a gift, but not quite)
With that said, there was never a contract both parties agreed to beforehand making the contract in itself void ("Offer and agreement have to be the same"). However the melon still became your property the moment you left the store ( §929.1 BGB "german law").
Since you got an "advantage" out of the cashiers mistake, you have to either pay the price of the melon, or give the melon back to the store (§818 BGB i.V.m §812 I, §433 BGB).
However this error has to be made apparent by the party that got "disadvantegeous". Otherwise its just assumed that the (void) contract is tolerated and the cashier was allowed (by the store owner) to agree to a price differing from the pricetag.
(If you buy something in the store, you make the offer and the cashier agrees. The pricetag is only an "invitatio ad offerendum". [You could say, that you made the offer of one melon for free and the clerk agreed. But this would be bad for your credibillity.])
So, in short, if they want the money, they are going to tell you. Otherwise you dont need to care about it. Most of the time a cashier might make the mistake of scanning something twice so you are probably in the green anyways.
Oh, and if you tell the store owner your story, it might give him the right to fire the clerk and you dont want someone to lose a job because of this right?
The moment you realize that you didn't pay for it and make the decision not to go back and do so, you stole it.
If I was you, and had a guilty conscious about it, I would just call up the store and report it to the manager. Make it seem like you are mostly just doing customer feedback on the cashier (did you catch the name?), the manager will tell you if you should come back and pay for it, or if your information is worth the loss.
On August 03 2010 20:55 CharlieMurphy wrote: The moment you realize that you didn't pay for it and make the decision not to go back and do so, you stole it.
If I was you, and had a guilty conscious about it, I would just call up the store and report it to the manager. Make it seem like you are mostly just doing customer feedback on the cashier (did you catch the name?), the manager will tell you if you should come back and pay for it, or if your information is worth the loss.
You need to think a bit more about the possible consequences. Doing what you proposed might make you seem less credible in a way that could make you get charged for theft.
The story could go like this: You deliberately hid an item from the cashier in order to steal it. When you got home, your "guilty conscious" made you aware of your crime so you came to return (or pay for) the melon and concealed your crime by making up a story about a cashier not scanning said melon.
There is no need for you to be guilty because you havent commited a crime. What happened is something that will be handled on a "civil sector". You wont be going to jail because someone else is too stupid to do his job.
If you want to tell the store owner of this, just say: "Your Cashier didnt scan one of the items i bought, if you want it back you can send someone over". Dont say something else, your credibility will hurt. Of course you can also pay for the melon, but only agree to something that will not inconvenience you in any way whatsoever, because after all, the error wasnt made by you.
Oh and as i said before, dont make someone lose his job over this.
I was in this shop one time and bought lots of food, then I checked the receipt and the dude had totally missed two packs of hot dogs and a block of cheese.
On August 03 2010 20:55 CharlieMurphy wrote: The moment you realize that you didn't pay for it and make the decision not to go back and do so, you stole it.
If I was you, and had a guilty conscious about it, I would just call up the store and report it to the manager. Make it seem like you are mostly just doing customer feedback on the cashier (did you catch the name?), the manager will tell you if you should come back and pay for it, or if your information is worth the loss.
You need to think a bit more about the possible consequences. Doing what you proposed might make you seem less credible in a way that could make you get charged for theft.
The story could go like this: You deliberately hid an item from the cashier in order to steal it. When you got home, your "guilty conscious" made you aware of your crime so you came to return (or pay for) the melon and concealed your crime by making up a story about a cashier not scanning said melon.
There is no need for you to be guilty because you havent commited a crime. What happened is something that will be handled on a "civil sector". You wont be going to jail because someone else is too stupid to do his job.
If you want to tell the store owner of this, just say: "Your Cashier didnt scan one of the items i bought, if you want it back you can send someone over". Dont say something else, your credibility will hurt. Of course you can also pay for the melon, but only agree to something that will not inconvenience you in any way whatsoever, because after all, the error wasnt made by you.
Oh and as i said before, dont make someone lose his job over this.
Why would someone deliberately steal something and then call to tell the store owner it was an accident? And I'm not saying you should be guilty, but the op seems to think this way.
Anybody watched that King of Queens episode in which Carrie purchased an IPod without being charged because the cashier was too busy talking on the cellphone?
Then she felt all guilty because of the priest and tried to make things right? In the end, she got called a thief, the cashier lost her job, the IPod never got charged for anyway and was "donated" to the priest.
I think there is some sort of moral lesson here.
Me, I'd totally take the watermelon and run. My local food store once overcharged me a dollar for a pack of ice cream and I didn't bother to complain. It's only fair that I get a watermelon to call it even.
On August 03 2010 20:55 CharlieMurphy wrote: The moment you realize that you didn't pay for it and make the decision not to go back and do so, you stole it.
If I was you, and had a guilty conscious about it, I would just call up the store and report it to the manager. Make it seem like you are mostly just doing customer feedback on the cashier (did you catch the name?), the manager will tell you if you should come back and pay for it, or if your information is worth the loss.
And what if the manager demands that you come back to the store and pay for it and the cost it takes you to get there exceeds the cost for the product? You'll lose money because someone else screwed up. (Not that it's a likely scenario) It have to be a little more complicated than that.
According to dutch law this wouldn't constitute theft. It would require you had the intention to remove something from someone's ownership/posession and add it to your own without a legal base.
However while the good exists the owner can revindicate it and demand it back since title of ownership did not pass upon you taking it.
Due diligence? :D The actus reus was there but no mens rea, you didn't go there with the mindset that you were going to steal that watermelon, you went there with the mindset that you were going to buy what you had once you were at the cashier. Therefore you are not at fault? (i think there is a part talking about basically trying to not commit a crime but in the end committing it)
I too am not a lawyer or anything like that, but I did take a grade 11 law course lol (which was years ago, so everything is rusty). :D
I find that the cashier often overcharges you on many things by incorrectly scanning or applying the wrong price. Imagine how many times you have paid THEM extra money considering you don't seem the type to check your receipts immediately after purchasing items.
On August 01 2010 11:45 KwarK wrote: If you didn't knowingly leave without paying then I wouldn't hold you at all to blame. They made a basic human error, it happens and to be honest I expect the store knows it happens. They most likely have a small part of their budget marked cashier error, the cost of which is represented in miniscule increases in prices across the board. It all works out in the end.
All stores also have a budget specifically marked for theft and spoiled food. Which is usually significantly higher than real figures due to often inflated crime figures in relation to supermarkets. (Ie, going by items rather than type of items and such inflating it to reflect an average cost.
i work as a cashier and accidental theft is taken as daily property loss. no1 really cares about it, like damaged goods in an aisle. as long as its not like a TV or anything 10+ dollars.
1) That watermelon is now shrinkage. This encompasses cashier error, as well as outright theft. It basically any non-legitimate loss. (ie. didnt sell all the milk we stocked before it went out of date).
2) Why the hell did you not put the watermelon on the belt? It's not too heavy right? Cause you got it into your car, and into your house and onto the cutting board..... don't be lazy.
3) If you were going to be lazy, did you inform the cashier that you had a watermelon in your cart? If you did not, then why not? Just forgot?
4) Why did the cashier not put the items in your cart? He obviously would have seen the watermelon then. At our store, cashiers check and put the bags on the back of the register until you finish clearing out the cart. When you are done with the cart they put the stuff they check currently into the cart. Discretion to the cashier if they also want to put the stuff on the back of the register into the cart as well.
Point is, the cashier should have checked your cart. Perhaps if this is not how your local grocery store does things // policy then w/e. However, speaking from both a LE-track perspective and a customer service rep (@ a grocery store no less) perspective, mistakes happen. This isn't more YOUR mistake or more THE CASHIERS mistake. Just a series of events that needed both people to do or not do certain things for the event to come out this way.
Customer service isn't going to bother you for 3 dollars if you come back in for it, unless you really really want to pay for it to make yourself feel better. They will just tell you to put the watermelon up on the belt next time. Or tell the cashier about it. After you leave they might give the cashier a little bit of a hard time for not checking the cart.
Legally, it is technically theft. However, the grocery store will never press charges. Not for a $3.88 watermelon. Even a police officer standing in the store watching you check out would not know if the cashier keyed it in or not without checking your receipt which he has no legal right to do (but funnily enough, store security could...).
Everybody saying mens rea is not fulfilled is stupid. Mens Rea is not required for all types of crimes, nor for all situations for other crimes. Further, one could argue that not putting the watermelon on the belt and not informing the cashier is willful negligence. Then lastly, when one discovers the mistake and takes no actions to make it right, this is also the guilty mind. Basically, you do not have to have to think "I AM GOING TO STEAL THIS WATERMELON". It is possible to fulfill mens rea by deciding "I will not put this up on the belt, i'll just let him know about it", and then not letting him know about it due to just forgetting.
Mens Rea is also fulfilled the instant you decide not to take corrective actions.
On August 04 2010 02:24 DefMatrixUltra wrote: Turn the story around for a different perspective on the same problem.
If the cashier accidentally charged you twice for some item, is that theft?
I think what you did is fine/acceptable. A mistake was made, and there was no malicious intent.
Actually, yes it is. This is why if you can demonstrate it to customer service they will speedily give you a refund.
As a grocery bagger, there have been times that i have noticed something staying in the cart and not getting scanned, or something missing being scanned, and i let it go anyways. That has a lot more to do with my hatred of that store/my boss, than anything though. I don't feel too bad about it.
On August 07 2010 08:43 Tdelamay wrote: Whoa, 3$? Watermelon are 6$ here ;_;
Where do you live...?
On August 07 2010 03:31 Comeh wrote: As a grocery bagger, there have been times that i have noticed something staying in the cart and not getting scanned, or something missing being scanned, and i let it go anyways. That has a lot more to do with my hatred of that store/my boss, than anything though. I don't feel too bad about it.
On August 07 2010 02:58 dogabutila wrote: Few issues here.
1) That watermelon is now shrinkage. This encompasses cashier error, as well as outright theft. It basically any non-legitimate loss. (ie. didnt sell all the milk we stocked before it went out of date).
2) Why the hell did you not put the watermelon on the belt? It's not too heavy right? Cause you got it into your car, and into your house and onto the cutting board..... don't be lazy.
3) If you were going to be lazy, did you inform the cashier that you had a watermelon in your cart? If you did not, then why not? Just forgot?
4) Why did the cashier not put the items in your cart? He obviously would have seen the watermelon then. At our store, cashiers check and put the bags on the back of the register until you finish clearing out the cart. When you are done with the cart they put the stuff they check currently into the cart. Discretion to the cashier if they also want to put the stuff on the back of the register into the cart as well.
Point is, the cashier should have checked your cart. Perhaps if this is not how your local grocery store does things // policy then w/e. However, speaking from both a LE-track perspective and a customer service rep (@ a grocery store no less) perspective, mistakes happen. This isn't more YOUR mistake or more THE CASHIERS mistake. Just a series of events that needed both people to do or not do certain things for the event to come out this way.
Customer service isn't going to bother you for 3 dollars if you come back in for it, unless you really really want to pay for it to make yourself feel better. They will just tell you to put the watermelon up on the belt next time. Or tell the cashier about it. After you leave they might give the cashier a little bit of a hard time for not checking the cart.
Legally, it is technically theft. However, the grocery store will never press charges. Not for a $3.88 watermelon. Even a police officer standing in the store watching you check out would not know if the cashier keyed it in or not without checking your receipt which he has no legal right to do (but funnily enough, store security could...).
Everybody saying mens rea is not fulfilled is stupid. Mens Rea is not required for all types of crimes, nor for all situations for other crimes. Further, one could argue that not putting the watermelon on the belt and not informing the cashier is willful negligence. Then lastly, when one discovers the mistake and takes no actions to make it right, this is also the guilty mind. Basically, you do not have to have to think "I AM GOING TO STEAL THIS WATERMELON". It is possible to fulfill mens rea by deciding "I will not put this up on the belt, i'll just let him know about it", and then not letting him know about it due to just forgetting.
Mens Rea is also fulfilled the instant you decide not to take corrective actions.
On August 04 2010 02:24 DefMatrixUltra wrote: Turn the story around for a different perspective on the same problem.
If the cashier accidentally charged you twice for some item, is that theft?
I think what you did is fine/acceptable. A mistake was made, and there was no malicious intent.
Actually, yes it is. This is why if you can demonstrate it to customer service they will speedily give you a refund.
thank god someone who actually knows what they're talking about posted in a thread like this!
i hate it so much when a bunch of people who think they know how anything works posts when they have no idea and base it around their own system of what they think is right as if it was the law or something
i mean everyone can share their opinion, but when the op specifically asks what does the law say i look through the whole thread eagerly awaiting a post like this!
On August 07 2010 02:58 dogabutila wrote: Few issues here.
1) That watermelon is now shrinkage. This encompasses cashier error, as well as outright theft. It basically any non-legitimate loss. (ie. didnt sell all the milk we stocked before it went out of date).
2) Why the hell did you not put the watermelon on the belt? It's not too heavy right? Cause you got it into your car, and into your house and onto the cutting board..... don't be lazy.
3) If you were going to be lazy, did you inform the cashier that you had a watermelon in your cart? If you did not, then why not? Just forgot?
4) Why did the cashier not put the items in your cart? He obviously would have seen the watermelon then. At our store, cashiers check and put the bags on the back of the register until you finish clearing out the cart. When you are done with the cart they put the stuff they check currently into the cart. Discretion to the cashier if they also want to put the stuff on the back of the register into the cart as well.
Point is, the cashier should have checked your cart. Perhaps if this is not how your local grocery store does things // policy then w/e. However, speaking from both a LE-track perspective and a customer service rep (@ a grocery store no less) perspective, mistakes happen. This isn't more YOUR mistake or more THE CASHIERS mistake. Just a series of events that needed both people to do or not do certain things for the event to come out this way.
Customer service isn't going to bother you for 3 dollars if you come back in for it, unless you really really want to pay for it to make yourself feel better. They will just tell you to put the watermelon up on the belt next time. Or tell the cashier about it. After you leave they might give the cashier a little bit of a hard time for not checking the cart.
Legally, it is technically theft. However, the grocery store will never press charges. Not for a $3.88 watermelon. Even a police officer standing in the store watching you check out would not know if the cashier keyed it in or not without checking your receipt which he has no legal right to do (but funnily enough, store security could...).
Everybody saying mens rea is not fulfilled is stupid. Mens Rea is not required for all types of crimes, nor for all situations for other crimes. Further, one could argue that not putting the watermelon on the belt and not informing the cashier is willful negligence. Then lastly, when one discovers the mistake and takes no actions to make it right, this is also the guilty mind. Basically, you do not have to have to think "I AM GOING TO STEAL THIS WATERMELON". It is possible to fulfill mens rea by deciding "I will not put this up on the belt, i'll just let him know about it", and then not letting him know about it due to just forgetting.
Mens Rea is also fulfilled the instant you decide not to take corrective actions.
On August 04 2010 02:24 DefMatrixUltra wrote: Turn the story around for a different perspective on the same problem.
If the cashier accidentally charged you twice for some item, is that theft?
I think what you did is fine/acceptable. A mistake was made, and there was no malicious intent.
Actually, yes it is. This is why if you can demonstrate it to customer service they will speedily give you a refund.
thank god someone who actually knows what they're talking about posted in a thread like this!
i hate it so much when a bunch of people who think they know how anything works posts when they have no idea and base it around their own system of what they think is right as if it was the law or something
i mean everyone can share their opinion, but when the op specifically asks what does the law say i look through the whole thread eagerly awaiting a post like this!
thank you
No prob. I was just gonna pass it over, cause....well, its not really a big deal. But I saw so much random crap being thrown around I just thought I'd write a little bit to correct some of the people. And then a little bit turned into an essay :-/.
I do have to note that this is for US law only. I'm not sure how it applies in canada. As demonstrated by some german guy earlier, its different in different parts of the world.
It isnt theft if they dont charge you for it. Its the emplyee's/stores own damn fault. They may have the legal right to bill you for the watermelon (or anything or that matter) but you had no intention of stealing when checking out. Just claim ignorance, and their isnt shit a cop can do.
EDIT: If you failed to put it on the belt, you fucked up. I thought op would of put it on the belt and the cashier just scanned 2 when theres 3 ect ect.
On September 14 2010 06:37 NotGood- wrote: It isnt theft if they dont charge you for it. Its the emplyee's/stores own damn fault. They may have the legal right to bill you for the watermelon (or anything or that matter) but you had no intention of stealing when checking out. Just claim ignorance, and their isnt shit a cop can do.
EDIT: If you failed to put it on the belt, you fucked up. I thought op would of put it on the belt and the cashier just scanned 2 when theres 3 ect ect.
It was on the belt. It went through the scanner, too. It was probably not positioned correctly so the scanner did not recognize it.
If only I got a penny every time some one posted something like this.... Seriously tho I don't return free stuff like that, and don't have any remorse about it, and I don't think you should regret it either.
Heh, I remember this thread. Pretty interesting read.
All I have to say on this issue has already been stated in the topic, so now my question is: What did you decide to do? Did you return to the store and apologize?
EPT
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