EPTInteresting link 1
Interesting link 2
And how is that not a prisoner's dilemma? Slightly changed from the one in the links, but it's still it.
[Philosophy] Profound prisoner's dilemma. - Page 18
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Manit0u
Poland17685 Posts
Interesting link 1 Interesting link 2 And how is that not a prisoner's dilemma? Slightly changed from the one in the links, but it's still it. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On July 23 2010 12:02 JinMaikeul wrote: Didn't know that, but it figures... *Edit: http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/archive/t-616712.html That's the only other forum I could find and it looks like you were the one that posted it... *Edit 2: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/47/science-math-philosophy/profound-prisoners-dillema-832186/ Nevermind.. found another one.. -_-  | ||
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catamorphist
United States297 Posts
On July 23 2010 16:59 Manit0u wrote: The thread title should be changed as it's not philosophy but rather psychology... Interesting link 1 Interesting link 2 And how is that not a prisoner's dilemma? Slightly changed from the one in the links, but it's still it. The whole point of the prisoner's dilemma is that each participant is independently better off defecting, but as a whole they would be both better off if they cooperated. The mishmash in this thread doesn't seem to have that property, at least not as far as I can tell (although in the interest of being confusing, the fellow kept redefining the "payoffs" for pulling the lever or staying put.) | ||
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fredd
Estonia256 Posts
OP posts pretentious bullshit 18 pages of arguing ensues what | ||
KwarK
United States43646 Posts
On July 23 2010 12:48 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: That doesn't mean he's a troll. But I hated this thread. Glad its like won't be posted again. Close? I thought I'd leave it open because a few people started making decent posts after his meltdown. If everyone keeps talking about him then I'll close it but if people can get any kind of discussion going then I'll let it slowly die and get bumped down like other topics. If you don't have anything to say then don't post and, assuming it's bad, the topic will remove itself without my intervention. | ||
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101TFP
420 Posts
I think it would play out like this: This video exaggerates a lot of course, but I still find that it can make you think. On July 23 2010 22:49 catamorphist wrote: The whole point of the prisoner's dilemma is that each participant is independently better off defecting, but as a whole they would be both better off if they cooperated. The mishmash in this thread doesn't seem to have that property, at least not as far as I can tell (although in the interest of being confusing, the fellow kept redefining the "payoffs" for pulling the lever or staying put.) I think that one thing you are missing here is the dilemma between staying in a prison for the rest of your life or dying. Some might consider death the better alternative. The prisoner might even do the other one a favor by pulling the lever. But if there is no way of communication between the prisoners, they will never know what the other one thinks. | ||
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Quanticfograw
United States2053 Posts
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
On July 19 2010 07:22 mahnini wrote: the solution is to wait for batman to stop the joker obviously Thread over. I award you 1 (one) Internet. PM me to collect your prize. | ||
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catamorphist
United States297 Posts
On July 24 2010 02:22 101TFP wrote: I think that one thing you are missing here is the dilemma between staying in a prison for the rest of your life or dying. Some might consider death the better alternative. The prisoner might even do the other one a favor by pulling the lever. But if there is no way of communication between the prisoners, they will never know what the other one thinks. OK, but the difference between that and the PD is that the PD poses an interesting, objective question about rational cooperation, amenable to discussion and argument. The other "dilemma" is all about whether you prefer death or a lot of suffering, which is just a topic suitable for a lot of bullshitting that nobody will ever agree on or learn anything from. | ||
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Whyzguy
Canada263 Posts
There are some things I wanna say but first, you Norwegians are hilarious. One of you said you'd pull the lever twice which made me lol irl and another one said to just stab the mage in the eye... which made me lol irl after I pictured that in my head. Anyways, on to more serious things. I didn't take a methodical approach to this, so none of this scientific stuff, game theory, utilitarianism etc. I kinda jsut... thought about it. The situation was actually quite interesting to me and maybe it's because I wasn't getting all serious about it. Most people saw the situation as either pull or not pull (this applies to both situation... which was mighty confusing when he introduced the version 1.0 or wtvr the fuck it was). I pretty much fell into this group of people except for the fact that my first reaction was "Who is this mage and why is this mage all-powerful?". But as the discussion went on, many interesting points were brought up. My favourite being how the idea of free will and the idea of being alive might lead you to kill yourself. Also, I assumed that we were put into this prison from the outside world meaning I would have all my life experiences etc. Not once did I think that I started off in this prison and it's all I know. But I think that drastically changes the scenario and requires a completely different... "solution"? maybe "course of action" fits better. In the end I couldn't come up with a solid answer and was just grateful that I'm not actually in that sort of situation. I know that this freestyle sort of thinking might be a huge waste of time but it was definately interesting and it made me stay for 18 pages and part of me wants to believe that that's what OP was looking for... be it true or not lol. | ||
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slained
Canada966 Posts
Suppose prisoner B pulls it instantly, and B pulls it in some time, or B never pulls the lever The solution to all the situations is to pull the lever before B in order to live. Cause in all situations he has some malicious intent to kill you, or will force to make you suffer for eternity in the last case. In all cases it is justified to pull the lever, and kill the person that wants to kill you, or make you suffer. If you do not pull the lever, than you are choosing to be a martyr and suffer for an unknown person, or die to unknown person. In my opinion, the only people who would choose be, are those people that have a incredible sense of ethics, or are very religious. There is also another view if you are considering this problem on a theoretical basis a) You don't know if the mage is telling you the truth. - Maybe there is no second prisoner. - Maybe the lever kills you and sets the other prisoner free. - You really can't 100% know the levers function without pulling it for sure. b) You are identical to the other prisoner - Theoretically you'll pull the lever at the same time, or go through the same thought process, as long as you're not dead, and regardless of a) holding. That means the other person hasn't pulled the lever either, meaning he is still thinking about it, or at least he is considering it ethically. c) If you have only one choice, pull the lever, or not pull the lever over an infinite amount of time, you are in actuality forced to pull it, there is no choice. This is considering if the other prisoner exists and is identical in everyday to you or that he doesn't exist at all. Considering a b c, if you are not dead then there is no reason again not to pull the lever right away. If a holds and there is no other prisoner, it sets you free. If there is another prisoner, you'll either set the prisoner free, or even the prisoner kills you, either case acceptable. Since there is no reason to believe there is another prisoner without being dead yourself pull. If b or c holds, you're fucked no matter what, you both die, or you both stay in prison forever, or you never really had a choice. | ||
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Ruthless
United States492 Posts
On July 19 2010 16:57 RhaegarBeast wrote: The original prisoner may die, but he's more than just a prisoner after he's made his choice. He has found something akin to free will and perhaps something will remain in his place... Not that he can experience. He is dead therefore anything that comes of his choice will be of no significant or pleasure to him. All he knows is nothing. Even if you like these leaving something behind ideas they are not satisfactory to the selfish person. Also it doesn't take choosing who dies to acquire free will so I would hardly consider it a benefit here. I don't know how to express what I don't like about the statement you made other than I feel its a stretch. | ||
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