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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6633 Posts
On July 16 2010 00:37 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: maybe we are the only alien race to send out radio signals/space ships etc Or they've already explored all of the inner galaxy and now it's time for them to pay us a visit. Interesting event here, probably some kind of weird military ship that went off course or something, don't think it's likely to be an alien craft but the possibility is there :O | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On July 16 2010 00:56 Empyrean wrote: I'm actually arguing from our perspective. From our current understanding of physics, ftl travel is impossible. To argue that it's possible given much more advanced technology is a dangerous argument to make, because it opens the doors for literally anything to be possible, as long as it's sufficiently advanced technologically. That's not the entirety of the argument, though. Even if FTL travel isn't possible, it still doesn't take into account alternative methods. Worm holes, warp drives, shifts in matter state, etc On July 16 2010 01:00 Ossian wrote: they would have invisibility long before they had FTL travel (I would say FTL is impossible but w/e) so there's no reasonable argument for them being there; either they don't want to be found and they use invisibility -> we can't see them or they do want to be seen in which case they could just land at the nearest public place and introduce themselves This talks about what they do or do not want to do. Are you an alien from somewhere else in the universe? | ||
Empyrean
16953 Posts
On July 16 2010 01:00 jello_biafra wrote: Or they've already explored all of the inner galaxy and now it's time for them to pay us a visit. Interesting event here, probably some kind of weird military ship that went off course or something, don't think it's likely to be an alien craft but the possibility is there :O The possibility is there, I suppose, but it's infinitesimal. It's much more probable that it's of terrestrial origins. | ||
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Lann555
Netherlands5173 Posts
[B] But lets say some aliens manages to get here, how come they are always the same size as us? The chances of that happening is so slim it'd be more likley for us to start a zombie apocalypse. As someone who has spent alot of time in the UFO-community, I have to point out this is not true. The aliens that people claim exist come in all shapes and sizes. In fact, the list of potential aliens is hilariously long and kind of silly. | ||
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Empyrean
16953 Posts
On July 16 2010 01:01 travis wrote: That's not the entirety of the argument, though. Even if FTL travel isn't possible, it still doesn't take into account alternative methods. Worm holes, warp drives, shifts in matter state, etc Wormholes: "There is no observational evidence for wormholes, but on a theoretical level there are valid solutions to the equations of the theory of general relativity which contain wormholes. The first type of wormhole solution discovered was the Schwarzschild wormhole which would be present in the Schwarzschild metric describing an eternal black hole, but it was found that this type of wormhole would collapse too quickly for anything to cross from one end to the other. Wormholes which could actually be crossed, known as traversable wormholes, would only be possible if exotic matter with negative energy density could be used to stabilize them (many physicists such as Stephen Hawking[1], Kip Thorne[2], and others[3][4][5] believe that the Casimir effect is evidence that negative energy densities are possible in nature). Physicists have also not found any natural process which would be predicted to form a wormhole naturally in the context of general relativity, although the quantum foam hypothesis is sometimes used to suggest that tiny wormholes might appear and disappear spontaneously at the Planck scale.[6][7] It has also been proposed that if a tiny wormhole held open by a negative-mass cosmic string had appeared around the time of the Big Bang, it could have been inflated to macroscopic size by cosmic inflation.[8]" (from wikipedia) Warp drives are a form of faster than light travel, and shifts in matter state I don't know how to address. All I'm saying is that it's likelier that FTL travel on a macro scale does not exist than that it does. | ||
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Go0g3n
Russian Federation410 Posts
Humans for the most part don't interact with less intelligent forms of life, why should they? All we do with animals is observe and exploit for our benefit, so it should work out about the same for them. | ||
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Empyrean
16953 Posts
On July 16 2010 01:08 Go0g3n wrote: I would guess, that if aliens exist and do have the technology and means to get to Earth (or wherever) in reasonable time, they are probably holding us to the level of ants. Humans for the most part don't interact with less intelligent forms of life, why should they? Curiosity? Remember burning ants with a magnifying glass when you were little? | ||
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Go0g3n
Russian Federation410 Posts
On July 16 2010 01:08 Empyrean wrote: Curiosity? Remember burning ants with a magnifying glass when you were little? Well, that was probably it, fly over in a craft, flick on a bright light, observe the reaction and fly out. | ||
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Ossian
Sweden88 Posts
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Empyrean
16953 Posts
On July 16 2010 01:11 Go0g3n wrote: Well, that was probably it, fly over in a craft, flick on a bright light, observe the reaction and fly out. Haha, I was just addressing your point as to when humans interact with ants. It was completely out of context with the thread and I probably should've made that clear XD | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On July 16 2010 01:08 Go0g3n wrote: I would guess, that if aliens exist and do have the technology and means to get to Earth (or wherever) in reasonable time, they are probably holding us to the level of ants. Humans for the most part don't interact with less intelligent forms of life, why should they? All we do with animals is observe and exploit for our benefit, so it should work out about the same for them. I don't hold that view of other creatures and I hold myself to be more intelligent than my average peer. What makes you think that more intelligent creatures would have similar views to something much less intelligent than them? Do we hold the same views of the universe as monkeys? (I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it's silly to postulate such a view like you actually have some sort of solid basis for it... "they're like us, just because") | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6633 Posts
On July 16 2010 01:08 Go0g3n wrote: I would guess, that if aliens exist and do have the technology and means to get to Earth (or wherever) in reasonable time, they are probably holding us to the level of ants. Humans for the most part don't interact with less intelligent forms of life, why should they? All we do with animals is observe and exploit for our benefit, so it should work out about the same for them. You're assuming though that these aliens will actually be more intelligent and evolved than us, when in fact they may have the same mental capacity as human beings and it's just their technology that's allowed them to accomplish what they have. They wouldn't necessarily consider us as the level of ants but perhaps in the same kind of way we'd consider tribes people who'd never had any contact with civilization or the outside world. What I'm saying is that the aliens could be just as intelligent as we are only better educated and with superior technology. | ||
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ProjectVirtue
Canada360 Posts
On July 16 2010 01:12 Ossian wrote: if they had the technology to travel to earth in reasonable time they would also not need to use what we call the visible spectra to observe us; they'd be watching us in any number of frequencies most likely not 'visible light' simply because it pierces almost nothing and gives them almost no information; also they'd use a fucking camera not a huge array of spotlights on the underside of their ship Isn't that speculation based on the modern glorified perception of aliens? Theres no substantial evidence that would instigate that extraterrestial life are all super fancy etc. They could just as well use visual receptors in their version of a cerebral cortex to translate information. And why would the 'technology' to travel to earth affect their visual reception. Consider us traveling to mars, or even jupiter a hundred or 2 hundred years down the roar. Our technology advanced SO much, yet we still rely on our eyes. or even in the past 17 years when the internet first came out and we still had windows 3.1, then bam. look how much our technlogy has increased. compared to speculations at the time. But we still rely on translation of the visible spectra in our occipital lobe. | ||
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Dance.jhu
United States292 Posts
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Aeronor
United States12 Posts
On July 16 2010 01:18 jello_biafra wrote: You're assuming though that these aliens will actually be more intelligent and evolved than us, when in fact they may have the same mental capacity as human beings and it's just their technology that's allowed them to accomplish what they have. They wouldn't necessarily consider us as the level of ants but perhaps in the same kind of way we'd consider tribes people who'd never had any contact with civilization or the outside world. It would be more likely that this alien race is completely different from us in thought and mind (having taken completely separate steps of evolution), and so we would both probably seem somewhat animalistic to each other. The fact that they have incredibly high technology levels would reinforce this especially on their side. They may not mean us any harm, but we would be considered lesser beings. The lesser beings are always made to serve the greater, just look at cattle, fish, plants, even bacteria. Interaction between two alien races of drastically different technological levels would most likely mean bad news for the lesser advanced race. Even if the aliens were largely benevolent (like the first Europeans to America) they still pose massive economic and physical danger to the inhabitants. Eventually the less developed people are either assimilated or destroyed, it has happened many many times when cultures collide. And that's the same species. | ||
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Jayson X
Switzerland2431 Posts
Whatever it is, it's cool to look at. Probably some new fuel? Is it possible to tell how fast it is flying and how far away / high it is? | ||
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Empyrean
16953 Posts
On July 16 2010 01:23 Aeronor wrote: It would be more likely that this alien race is completely different from us in thought and mind (having taken completely separate steps of evolution), and so we would both probably seem somewhat animalistic to each other. The fact that they have incredibly high technology levels would reinforce this especially on their side. They may not mean us any harm, but we would be considered lesser beings. The lesser beings are always made to serve the greater, just look at cattle, fish, plants, even bacteria. Interaction between two alien races of drastically different technological levels would most likely mean bad news for the lesser advanced race. Even if the aliens were largely benevolent (like the first Europeans to America) they still pose massive economic and physical danger to the inhabitants. Eventually the less developed people are either assimilated or destroyed, it has happened many many times when cultures collide. And that's the same species. Life as we conceive of it would still probably be either carbon or silicon based, and have some means of passings its genetic information (or equivalent) on to the next generation. So at a very basic level, there would probably be some similarities. But yeah, other life is probably going to be wildly different from anything on Earth. As for your benevolence issue, if there were a benevolent alien species advanced enough to develop FTL travel, they probably know not to interfere with the lives of lesser species. Star Trek's Prime Directive, anyone? | ||
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AdamBanks
Canada996 Posts
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MadVillain
United States402 Posts
Some one already posted the Carl Sagan quote, so I won't repeat it but yeah, there isn't an inkling of extraordinary evidence here. So its a UFO, and UNIDENTIFIED flying object, immediately labeling it of alien origin is just rash and isn't taking some basic logic skills into account. First: There is absolutely no hard/physical evidence, maybe there will be in the future when they are done investigating, ie particles taken from its 'smoke trail', radiation readings, debris maybe. Pictures are NOT evidence that its an alien craft, hell the videos didn't even show it doing anything that a normal craft couldn't do. Second: I'm sure you've heard the principel of Occam's razor which states that theory with the least assumptions is often the correct one. So lets apply that here. Theory 1: It's some sort of human made craft, maybe government, maybe private (who knows it could be some guys aircraft he made in his backyard). Theory 2: An alien spacecraft from hundreds to thousands of light years across the universe, after some how 'surveying' us, despite the fact that our radio signals have only traveled about 70 lyrs, decided to come to the Earth. This statement hides all the assumptions that are needed to make it reasonable. Theory 2 assumptions: 1. Aliens exist (ok this assumption, in my opinion borders on fact given its extremely unlikely that aliens DON'T exist given the 200 billion starts int he galaxy) 2. These aliens evolved into highly sentient beings. 3. These aliens have survived for the thousands upon millions of years necessary to develop such technology, technology that according to our understanding of physics is impossible. (this statement in itself is backed by even more assumptions) 4. The aliens despite the infinitesimal chances found our planet and decided to visit it. So which of these 2 theories seems more, likely, reasonable? I really want to believe that aliens have visited earth because the thought that we'll never make contact with anything that hasn't originated on this planet makes me a little sick and sad. But it is a little silly to assume that every UFO is an alien craft. | ||
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
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