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Thread Rules
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On February 16 2019 02:15 solidbebe wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by asking how it's used within algorithmics. If you've come up with a new algorithm and are publishing a paper about it, it is common to provide analysis of its runtime complexity through the Big O, Big Theta, Big Omega, benchmarks, and what have you. These are all properties of algorithms that are very useful to know about. Yes Big O is a theoretical concept, what's wrong with that?
To use a personal example: a while back I was parsing a dataset of about 300k records. For each unique IP address I needed to store relevant information, but multiple records could correspond to the same IP address. After implementing a dumb solution in 5 minutes, where I first made a pass to collect each unique IP, and then for each unique IP collects its corresponding information in another pass, it took more than a minute to run before I stopped it. I realized I had just implemented a solution of which the runtime scaled in the square of the input, when I could very simply just do it in a single pass and get a linear solution. I didn't explicitly think of the Big O notation, but I did basically use it.
ah , ok. interesting stuff. thanks for the response.
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java and c# are what you get when you want to market smalltalk to c programmers
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On February 20 2019 08:47 Frolossus wrote:java and c# are what you get when you want to market smalltalk to c programmers
I know a couple of guys who tried to avoid maintaining some old xBase systems in their native languages by using Cincom smalltalk. They spent many months trying to compile exes that could chew through some data. They never got anything to work reliably. I bit the bullet.. swallowed hard.. and kept modifying and maintaining those ancient database systems with Visual Foxpro and Clipper. Its pretty sad that I had to do that, but at least it worked.
All that glitters is not gold.
( the lady in stairway to heaven is wrong )
It was a smart move by Cincom to try to fill that void in the marketplace. No one wants to code in 10+ year old languages that are dead. Unfortunately, when the rubber hit the road the transmission fell out of the car.
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Speaking of languages, I've had my first real interactions with Scala. I'm the only person in the company that knows what has to be done in some projects but have never really worked with Scala before, what could go wrong?
Anyway, I've managed to refactor stuff and everything is working now but boy was I surprised... Scala is supposedly super safe and everything. Still, even if you have imports from non-existent files it compiles and runs tests just fine. Boggled my mind.
+47 −1,112
Feels good.
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Just wanted some opinions from everyone else here as to what people think is the better option.
I had two options that my manager offered me.
1. Progression within current seniority level (Level 2, progression 2 to Level 2, progression 3)
2. Higher pay now within current seniority level, to top end of pay within grade (higher than option 1, with progression occurring 6 months later instead)
I said the money now would be more helpful, as job responsibilities don't change either way.
I'm debating whether or not I made the right choice - It's too late to change it now, but for the future if a similar situation arises.
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Money now is always better than a title change. You're never going to hear your manager tell you that you can't do some work because you're not a senior developer or grade Z or anything related to your title.
In the worst case scenario, you can use your pay jump as leverage to another job with an even higher salary.
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Where the heck do you work where progression is so strictly based on age (seniority?) instead of ability that they're giving you several progression systems to choose from? Almost sounds like you're in the army or something.
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On February 21 2019 02:19 Excludos wrote:
Where the heck do you work where progression is so strictly based on age (seniority?) instead of ability that they're giving you several progression systems to choose from? Almost sounds like you're in the army or something.
It's fairly normal in big companies. Although there are always ways of getting fast-tracked when the company wants.
I would go for the money, but there are two reasons not to, that I can think of:
1. there are other perks that you want and that come with promotion (more freedom in office hours, parking nearer to the office, a better category health insurance, or what-have-you).
2. you plan on finding a different job soon and would like the promotion reflected on your resumé (and the money doesn't matter as you expect to earn more when you swap anyway)
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On February 21 2019 02:19 Excludos wrote:
Where the heck do you work where progression is so strictly based on age (seniority?) instead of ability that they're giving you several progression systems to choose from? Almost sounds like you're in the army or something.
I work for SAP (big company as Acrofales guessed)
It is based on ability, if I wasn't skilled enough I wouldn't be up for a promotion/progression, and a raise would be small (evaluations occur twice a year, March/September). Promotion (Level 2 -> 3) would somewhat change my day-to-day responsibilities/expectations, progression does not (level 2-2 to level 2-3). My manager gave me the options so that she knows which one I prefer, because she knows that I'd be doing the same stuff day-to-day. I'm not planning on jumping in the next year, so it makes little difference (Unless I hit senior - level 3-1 which is the next time I can change my title in my resume), so maximizing the amount of money I get now seems to be the smartest thing I can do. Thanks guys for the opinions
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Zurich15355 Posts
How long have you been with SAP? Worth it to take the golden handshake currently up and look for another job maybe?
Better yet, take the money, then push the button and take the buyout based on your new salary.
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That kinda assumes, that he even intends to change companies. I've heard (even in IT) some people like to remain with their employer instead of doing the usual 3 year job roulette.
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On February 21 2019 03:59 Lmui wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2019 02:19 Excludos wrote:
Where the heck do you work where progression is so strictly based on age (seniority?) instead of ability that they're giving you several progression systems to choose from? Almost sounds like you're in the army or something. I work for SAP (big company as Acrofales guessed) It is based on ability, if I wasn't skilled enough I wouldn't be up for a promotion/progression, and a raise would be small (evaluations occur twice a year, March/September). Promotion (Level 2 -> 3) would somewhat change my day-to-day responsibilities/expectations, progression does not (level 2-2 to level 2-3). My manager gave me the options so that she knows which one I prefer, because she knows that I'd be doing the same stuff day-to-day. I'm not planning on jumping in the next year, so it makes little difference (Unless I hit senior - level 3-1 which is the next time I can change my title in my resume), so maximizing the amount of money I get now seems to be the smartest thing I can do. Thanks guys for the opinions
Are there any time in grade requirements to get moved up a level? For example, if you turn down 2-3 now will you have to be 2-3 for X months before they'll consider moving you to 3-1 or can you just move directly from 2-2 to 3-1 (or does your time at 2-2 count for your move up to senior). If you're going to stay there and pick up senior then it may be worthwhile to take a 'paycut' to be eligible sooner as senior is typically a much larger pay increase (at least here) so getting there faster can be better. All that would depend on how your company works though.
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There's no hard time at grade requirement, but I can realistically hit senior here inside of 4-4.5 years total, so ~1-1.5ish years from now if I keep the progression rate I've been going at. If I jumped now, getting the senior title in the same timespan is difficult - some of my knowledge is domain/SAP specific so that'd add a year or two to move up pretty much whereever else I go.
In Vancouver, the biggest 3 employers are SAP, Amazon and Microsoft, and all 3 have similar progression scales, so since I didn't jump once I hit Level 2, there's not much benefit to jumping til I reach the senior title IMO.
Just so it's clear, I enjoy working here - until Amazon opens their new office ~2021-2022, SAP's the most convenient to transit to, and the work-life balance is better with my current team than what some of my friends at the other companies are subjected to.
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On February 21 2019 04:18 mahrgell wrote:
That kinda assumes, that he even intends to change companies. I've heard (even in IT) some people like to remain with their employer instead of doing the usual 3 year job roulette.
Best part of being a consultant is that changing job every year/other year is part of the job description 
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On February 21 2019 05:47 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2019 04:18 mahrgell wrote:
That kinda assumes, that he even intends to change companies. I've heard (even in IT) some people like to remain with their employer instead of doing the usual 3 year job roulette. Best part of being a consultant is that changing job every year/other year is part of the job description
You described very well why I refused to go into consulting :D
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Zurich15355 Posts
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I'm way too young for that. It's usually 1 year of salary from what I heard and generally for people who're in their late 50s/60s. If it's the same as the last round that I was here for, they let a bunch of older employees go, and pretty shortly after hired young blood back in, sometimes in the same roles as before.
Pretty much boils down to the older people grew up with on-premise, server-client software, and the next hottest thing right now is AI/machine learning/cloud etc. They can either train/hope experienced people learn as required, or pay a junior developer half as much, who's starting from almost the same place.
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On February 21 2019 01:46 Lmui wrote:
Just wanted some opinions from everyone else here as to what people think is the better option.
I had two options that my manager offered me.
1. Progression within current seniority level (Level 2, progression 2 to Level 2, progression 3)
2. Higher pay now within current seniority level, to top end of pay within grade (higher than option 1, with progression occurring 6 months later instead)
I said the money now would be more helpful, as job responsibilities don't change either way.
I'm debating whether or not I made the right choice - It's too late to change it now, but for the future if a similar situation arises.
i'd go for higher pay now always. your employer is not your friend. you have no real guarantee down the road that you will get those promotions in a year or later with the pay they said to get you in the door.
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I agree with other guys. Always go for the money if you can.
I'm working for a pretty big company and what I've learned is that your title means jack shit. In theory I'm a senior ruby developer but over the course of a year within the company I had to do devops work, refactor code in languages that I'm not really good with (Python, Scala) and in general forced to do a lot of stuff that theoretically isn't anywhere close to my job description. Personally I don't mind as it gives me a great opportunity to learn about stuff I wouldn't normally touch in the production environment, but it is off putting for quite a lot of people.
Most people I work with are senior developers and they're all polyglots thanks to this approach.
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On February 21 2019 08:12 Lmui wrote:
Pretty much boils down to the older people grew up with on-premise, server-client software, and the next hottest thing right now is AI/machine learning/cloud etc. They can either train/hope experienced people learn as required, or pay a junior developer half as much, who's starting from almost the same place.
seeing as you are from Canada I'll give you more of a Canada specific response.
I think the 2 year community college "database programmers" are vulnerable to the change you bring up. They do not know enough about math. I'm watching 40-somethings and 50-something college guys slowly get replaced and its kinda sad. Nice people.... just not ruthless enough. It hurts watching them go. Some of these people have helped me so much the last 5 years.
A Waterloo co-op student at 1 of the places I work made over 25K in a 4 month work term. If you want to replace these older guys with a young hot-shot it ain't cheap. There are lots of Waterloo co-op program grads walking into 90K+ jobs.
Once you include extended healthcare benefits the cost to an employer is only slightly lower for a young, new hotshot, I'd say the biggest difference employers experience is they can get these unmarried, unattached 22 year olds to live, eat and breathe their software project. These young guys will run through a brick wall if you tell them. They'll easily work 65 hours a week and not even blink. Its how they've been living the last 4+ years any way. Inertia baby 
On the other extreme of the education spectrum if you've got a 5-year BSE from Waterloo I'd say you are almost 100% immune to these changes and also in a great position to take advantage of them.
Take-away: Get a good education in Math or GTFO before they tell you to GTFO
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EPT
