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On June 10 2010 03:52 samalie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2010 07:07 Jibba wrote:If you're going to compare the big boys, you should really just use the Envy 17, MSI GX740 or Asus G73 to the 17" Macbook Pro. Between the Macbook and an Alienware, I'd take the MBP. Envy 17 is like $1600, GX740 is $1400 and the different G73 models go from $1400-1900. You can also get good Bing Cashback deals on all the PC laptops. HP sometimes does 25%. Anyways, not sure where the OP went but he should really pose his question here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/what-notebook-should-i-buy/Most people on TL don't know what they're talking about. >.> You'll get less biased answers there, with less PC and Mac fanboys, and people are up to date. You won't get anyone recommending their 3 year old Thinkpad, or people trying to win arguments with image macros... >.> Just priced the Envy 17, for the hell of it (again, trying to compare as directly as is possible). I won't go as deep in the analysis as I did last time, but with a quad-core I7 instead of the dual-core in the MBP/Alien, and the ATI 5850 GFX card, adding in the photo editing & other nicities that come with the MBP (or at least a PC equivalant) came out to $2,374 USD. At today's exchange, that works out to $2,474.06 CAD. THis time, a savings of $150 over the education store at apple for a similar MBP, give or take. Yes, the Envy is a better deal...but I would argue that overall the MBP is the better notebook. Face it, bottom line, while the MBP definetely commands a premium pricetag, once you get down and dirty the premium isn't that huge...at most 10-15%. Factor in the fact that you can easily sell a well taken care of MBP 3 years later for 25% of its original value...and the "Apple Tax" vanishes entirely. PC's will always be cheaper up-front, but Mac's Total Cost of Ownership is way less. Again, credentials, I'm a PC guy & database developer (Microsoft) for 15 years...I love the PC...but Mac's aren't the piles of crap they once were on a price comparative basis anymore.
out of curiosity, how did you manage that? care to list out the specs of both the hp and the mbp? my numbers are not even remotely close to these, and i'm totally ignoring the fact that envy's video card absolutely destroys MBPs (treating them as equal)
there are many things you can argue in favor of apple's notebooks. price/value isn't one of them.
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The 5850M is actually a much better card than the Nvidia Optimus 330M GT that comes with the macbook pros. Much better and on completely different tiers.
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If your willing to learn a little about computers / OSes I would suggest building a desktop that will do the heavy lifting of your computing needs and a netbook / small laptop that is for the portability (mainly for battery and remoting into your desktop).
All this won't be a huge sink in your wallet because you can build a decent desktop that can run most high end games for under $1000 and a netbook is under $300.
I just got a netbook for $230 from woot and its so far what i payed for. Mainly got it for the battery life and portability when I go back to school later this year.
Windows 7 is actually pretty nice been using it since it was in beta. One of the big thing is its really user friendly. And some schools give you free OS. I go to Rochester Institute Technology (RIT) and got bunch of keys from MSDNAA
If your going into a math program you prob want a windows machine because you will run a lot of programs that where made for windows then maybe ported to mac.
EDIT: Oh and learning to reformatting is really useful skill to have because it fixes all windows problems its not that hard either.
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On June 07 2010 12:04 Mykill wrote:Cons:
Processing power (I cant run iTunes, Safari, Msn together)
**NOTE** People seem to have an issue with my arguement, i honestly try to watch youtube talk on msn and have itunes as well as limewire to download music and it freezes up. im not sure why maybe ill take it into the apple store **
The reason for the freezing up is probably because of the SSD. (I assume this is the macbook pro)
Standard JMicron MLC SSDs have atrocious multitasking capabilities, SLCs are only slightly better, and the only viable SSD is the new Intel X-25 Series which costs a fortune. Right now SSD has so many trade-offs, so you are still better off with a stock standard 2.5in laptop HD. Usually they are 5400 rpm, but you can get 7200 rpm ones or even 10,000 rpm ones (they might overheat though).
![[image loading]](http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/thessdanthology_031809001858/18643.png)
Western Digital Caviar SE16 (standard 7200 rpm HD): 1.26 MB/s
JMicron JMF602B MLC (SSD): 0.02 MB/s
Fast boot time can be achieved easily with Windows XP if you use nliteXP and remove programs and services that don't matter, boot times can become insanely fast after that. One problem is how windows installs programs which pretty much requires you to reformat every 6 months, but one thing you can do is use as many portable programs as possible, rather than installers, it should make a big difference to maintaining your boot time.
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I got a Macbook Pro just because it was the only decent high-end laptop available at the medium I bought it at (I wouldn't have to pay tax).
After like a day on the Mac OS, I installed Windows 7 lol. It does have some driver issues (headphones won't work unless you already have them plugged in before launching a game, stuff like that) but otherwise works pretty well.
I love the Mac laptop keyboard too.
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On June 10 2010 07:02 JeeJee wrote:
out of curiosity, how did you manage that? care to list out the specs of both the hp and the mbp? my numbers are not even remotely close to these, and i'm totally ignoring the fact that envy's video card absolutely destroys MBPs (treating them as equal)
there are many things you can argue in favor of apple's notebooks. price/value isn't one of them.
The vidoe card absolutely destorys the MBP...100% agreed...and in this case the processor is better too.
My numbers came from a custom built system using HP's own online ordering system, and also included some photo editing/CD software to try to compare somewhat to the iLife suite on the MBP.
But I will still argue that, when you factor in the Total Cost of Ownership, Apple can and does often beat out a Windows PC (TCO factors in the "extra" software you all but need on a PC, resale value, etc). The Mac will ALWAYS cost more upfront than the same WinPC, but in the long term (3+ years) the Mac will usually win on TCO.
Usually.
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I am a PC user and always have been. I'm also a college student.
For college, get a Mac laptop.
They have big screens and are very easy to use. If you watch netflix on them, you will be very pleased. They are the potentate for graphics design as well, so if you decide to do some art classes, you'll be good.
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On June 08 2010 08:56 Mykill wrote:thanks for all the advice guys! I will probably be buying a Sager, Lenovo or an MSI Getting iPhone 4G though. its too amazing to pass up 
Great choice. Jibba gave you some insightful answers as to where to look. Notebookreview is a great site to look, since there's a lot of information there. I actually posted 2 user reviews on that site, both were Sager laptops.
I own myself a Sager NP2096 (http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/293753-sager-np2096-user-review.html). Been using since then, and I've never had any problems with it. Runs semi-hot when playing, but what laptop doesn't.
My only regard is the size. Personally, if I could get a 14", I would. A bunch of books + computer is quite heavy.
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I had the same debate about a year and a half ago, and I eventually decided on a ThinkPad (not IdeaPad) for slightly under $1000 CAD, it was about $400 cheaper than a MBP with similar specs.
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On June 11 2010 00:39 samalie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2010 07:02 JeeJee wrote:
out of curiosity, how did you manage that? care to list out the specs of both the hp and the mbp? my numbers are not even remotely close to these, and i'm totally ignoring the fact that envy's video card absolutely destroys MBPs (treating them as equal)
there are many things you can argue in favor of apple's notebooks. price/value isn't one of them. The vidoe card absolutely destorys the MBP...100% agreed...and in this case the processor is better too. My numbers came from a custom built system using HP's own online ordering system, and also included some photo editing/CD software to try to compare somewhat to the iLife suite on the MBP. But I will still argue that, when you factor in the Total Cost of Ownership, Apple can and does often beat out a Windows PC (TCO factors in the "extra" software you all but need on a PC, resale value, etc). The Mac will ALWAYS cost more upfront than the same WinPC, but in the long term (3+ years) the Mac will usually win on TCO. Usually.
numbers, not words please. again i can't even come close to replicating MBPs price with envy's, there's always a 500+ premium on the mbp.
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I've played around with boot camp on a Mac and the one thing I hate is that the laptop gets hot as hell and the fan is always on full blast making it one of the noisiest things in my house. I'd rather get something that can monitor the hardware better in Windows.
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If your PC keeps crashing on you, then you're an idiot and you don't know the first thing about PC maintenance or repair. Also, PCs have the best (free) support in the world. It's called the internet. Any problem you have with a PC can be solved on the internet. Whether it be on forums like this, or FAQs posted online.
Also, I don't know is Apple still does this, but I believe they may charge fees for updates to their OS.
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PC if you don't have enough money for a Mac. Mac if you want quality.
How's that for a biased opinion?
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On June 11 2010 12:10 im a roc wrote:
PC if you don't have enough money for a Mac. Mac if you want quality.
How's that for a biased opinion?
Pretty biased, I would say.
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On June 10 2010 07:15 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2010 12:04 Mykill wrote:Cons:
Processing power (I cant run iTunes, Safari, Msn together)
**NOTE** People seem to have an issue with my arguement, i honestly try to watch youtube talk on msn and have itunes as well as limewire to download music and it freezes up. im not sure why maybe ill take it into the apple store **
The reason for the freezing up is probably because of the SSD. (I assume this is the macbook pro) Standard JMicron MLC SSDs have atrocious multitasking capabilities, SLCs are only slightly better, and the only viable SSD is the new Intel X-25 Series which costs a fortune. Right now SSD has so many trade-offs, so you are still better off with a stock standard 2.5in laptop HD. Usually they are 5400 rpm, but you can get 7200 rpm ones or even 10,000 rpm ones (they might overheat though). time.
JMicron does not manufacture NAND Flash. SLC/MLC have nothing to do with freezing up, nor does it have anything to do with multitasking. SLC vs MLC is a completely different issue.
What you are talking about is the controller itself, or the brain of the SSD that dictates what goes where. The older JMicron drives were absolutely terrible because the controllers were terrible, and would allocate data inefficiently causing low random reads/writes which caused a freeze. Now, there is the relatively old Intel X25-M (the first decent SSD), but there are also real alternatives to the Intel SSD. There are the Indilinx Barefoot controllers, Sandforce controllers, and even the new JMicron (when it doesn't brick the drive with bad firmware).
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Once you get a MAC, you'll know. It's just better , holds its value and it lastes... just try it and you wont go back (laptops)
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I'm no laptop/computer expert, but I can add 2 cents:
1) Don't get an HP. They're just eh from my experience.
2) Imo, Macs give you the same specs, speed, etc as Windows computers, but cost ~$500 more.
My honest opinion about Apple's products is that they're somewhat gimmicky. People have run to Apple because Apple's released a lot of shiny convenient products (iPods) and now all those iPod users think the shiny laptops are great stuff too. I really don't like Macs, I don't find anything special about them after using them, they're just really expensive toys. And now that Windows 7 has replaced the terrible Vista, PCs don't really fail in any particular category in my experience.
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On June 11 2010 15:15 InfeSteD wrote:
Once you get a MAC, you'll know. It's just better , holds its value and it lastes... just try it and you wont go back (laptops)
especially once you use the track pad
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On June 11 2010 00:46 ragnasaur wrote:
I am a PC user and always have been. I'm also a college student.
For college, get a Mac laptop.
They have big screens and are very easy to use. If you watch netflix on them, you will be very pleased. They are the potentate for graphics design as well, so if you decide to do some art classes, you'll be good.
Yeah screw those pc laptops being be-riddled with confusing mazes and complex encryptions required to use word documents and the internet.
And god damn when are pc's finally gonna get those 'big screens' ive been waiting 2 years for my custom big screen
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On June 11 2010 15:15 InfeSteD wrote:
Once you get a MAC, you'll know. It's just better , holds its value and it lastes... just try it and you wont go back (laptops)
Just about everyone I know that has owned a Mac would disagree... In truth, there's very little substance behind the Mac hype. Just buy whichever computer you like more. These days, they're all pretty much the same... Unless you absolutely NEED to use some Mac-specific software, there's really little reason to go that route, though. Of course there are those who appreciate the aesthetics or REALLY like OSX, which is fine.
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EPT
