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On May 31 2010 17:04 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 15:50 QibingZero wrote:
The sad thing is I'm pretty sure the Israeli Army actually has their people believing every aid convoy is really a secret plot to try to arm the Palestinian resistance. Ugh. -.- Wonder what in the past would cause that sort of paranoia. Jeez those palestinians are pretty smart to make all those rockets out of nothing neh?
qft, If it was the red cross it would be a different story. the ignorance is in the aid worker's eyes for thinking they can just waltz in to the most fragile part of the world without saying anything..
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On May 31 2010 17:01 EmeraldSparks wrote:
I feel like the international water thing is overblown. These were ships that were going to be entering Israeli water in a few hours, by their own admission, and I hardly think it makes a significant "moral" difference (letter of the law aside) that they were boarded the night before they were going to enter rather than the morning of.
Israel offered to have the aid transported to Gaza if the ships would drop the supplies off at Ashdod to be searched; they declined. But you are correct; it is all about keeping up the Israeli blockade, because a blockade that can be flouted at will loses all potency.
You talk as if the blockade was a good thing for everyone, without acknowledging the suffering of the Palestinian people and the creation of new terrorist cells. I understand Israel needing to feel safe, but this has gone far beyond any reasonable measures.
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On May 31 2010 17:09 Emon_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 17:01 EmeraldSparks wrote:
I feel like the international water thing is overblown. These were ships that were going to be entering Israeli water in a few hours, by their own admission, and I hardly think it makes a significant "moral" difference (letter of the law aside) that they were boarded the night before they were going to enter rather than the morning of.
Israel offered to have the aid transported to Gaza if the ships would drop the supplies off at Ashdod to be searched; they declined. But you are correct; it is all about keeping up the Israeli blockade, because a blockade that can be flouted at will loses all potency. You talk as if the blockade was a good thing for everyone, without acknowledging the suffering of the Palestinian people and the creation of new terrorist cells. I understand Israel needing to feel safe, but this has gone far beyond any reasonable measures.
Maybe if they didn't launch rockets aimlessly at israel, israel would be a little more lenient about random ships coming through.
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The difference between the West and Israel is that Israel plays to win. Also all the rational groups that want peace are being outbred by the religious extremists. So yeah peace, humanity and a good outcome are not likely to be found soon barring some dramatic event.
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On May 31 2010 16:43 Mystlord wrote:
Time to pull aid from Israel!
Please? This is just ridiculous.
Lol, Israel once attacked a US ship and killed dozens of americans in international waters. If that can be overlooked then there is no chance this is going to change our relations with Israel.
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These guys have even publicly stated that they aren't really so much interested in bringing aid to gaza, as they are in stirring up a shit storm and pointing out israel as the big bad guy.
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On May 31 2010 17:09 Emon_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 17:01 EmeraldSparks wrote:
I feel like the international water thing is overblown. These were ships that were going to be entering Israeli water in a few hours, by their own admission, and I hardly think it makes a significant "moral" difference (letter of the law aside) that they were boarded the night before they were going to enter rather than the morning of.
Israel offered to have the aid transported to Gaza if the ships would drop the supplies off at Ashdod to be searched; they declined. But you are correct; it is all about keeping up the Israeli blockade, because a blockade that can be flouted at will loses all potency. You talk as if the blockade was a good thing for everyone, without acknowledging the suffering of the Palestinian people and the creation of new terrorist cells. I understand Israel needing to feel safe, but this has gone far beyond any reasonable measures.
I am simply elaborating on Israel's position; I do not support the blockade, nor the Gaza campaign, nor the settlement building. My ideal solution is Israel's acceptance the ten-year ceasefire with Hamas offered a while back, in exchange for the withdrawal of all settlements (I believe these were the terms,) and subsequent normalization and establishment of the two-state solution.
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goddamn some jews are alright, but i just can't stand israel at all
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A flotilla full of activists and supplies gets boarded. Do you really think they aren't going to board the ship to at the very least check it out and make sure these activists aren't up to any bullshit?
An official said the soldiers were attacked with knives and clubs as they boarded the six vessels.
The Israeli military said the violence turned deadly after one of the activists grabbed a weapon from one of the commandos. The weapon discharged, though it wasn't clear whether the activist fired it or if it went off accidentally.
I think the key thing to take from this is:
Don't attack commandos with knives and clubs and then attempt to take their weapons, otherwise you might get fucking blown away.
Did any of you even read the article?
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On May 31 2010 17:17 hifriend wrote:
These guys have even publicly stated that they aren't really so much interested in bringing aid to gaza, as they are in stirring up a shit storm and pointing out israel as the big bad guy.
Well they tried to avoid Israeli waters until day so they could get more publicity, just tells you that's they were not in it for aid but for other reasons.
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On May 31 2010 15:58 illu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 15:48 EmeraldSparks wrote:
I believe the Israeli response was disproportionate.
My guess as to Israeli policy was:
Non-resistance will be met by non-violence. Non-lethal resistance ill be met by non-lethality. Lethal resistance will be met by lethality.
I agree with that. That ship looks perfectly harmless and it's certainly not a battleship. However, all of the suicide bombers look 'harmless' too. They either go by themselves, or drive a car (which is not a conventional weapon).
Read the article, suppsedly people had knives clubs, and one of the commandos weapons was taken. That qualifies as more than enough reason to start blowing people away if you are a small team of commandos in a large group of activists.
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On May 31 2010 17:32 Wr3k wrote:A flotilla full of activists and supplies gets boarded. Do you really think they aren't going to board the ship to at the very least check it out and make sure these activists aren't up to any bullshit? Show nested quote +
An official said the soldiers were attacked with knives and clubs as they boarded the six vessels.
The Israeli military said the violence turned deadly after one of the activists grabbed a weapon from one of the commandos. The weapon discharged, though it wasn't clear whether the activist fired it or if it went off accidentally.
I think the key thing to take from this is: Don't attack commandos with knives and clubs and then attempt to take their weapons, otherwise you might get fucking blown away. Did any of you even read the article?
Who says they attacked first? "They tried to grab a gun." is the oldest trick in the book. Do you believe everything an involved party says? The commandos boarded the ship to forcefully stop them.
Another horrible act of Israel that will go unpunished.
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They brought cement! Stop that flotilla at all costs!
>_>
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On May 31 2010 17:40 ShAsTa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 17:32 Wr3k wrote:A flotilla full of activists and supplies gets boarded. Do you really think they aren't going to board the ship to at the very least check it out and make sure these activists aren't up to any bullshit?
An official said the soldiers were attacked with knives and clubs as they boarded the six vessels.
The Israeli military said the violence turned deadly after one of the activists grabbed a weapon from one of the commandos. The weapon discharged, though it wasn't clear whether the activist fired it or if it went off accidentally.
I think the key thing to take from this is: Don't attack commandos with knives and clubs and then attempt to take their weapons, otherwise you might get fucking blown away. Did any of you even read the article? Who says they attacked first? The commandos boarded the ship to forcefully stop them. Another horrible act of Israel that will go unpunished.
Well, yes, ships that attempt to enter a country's waters and ignore orders to stop get boarded.
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On May 31 2010 17:42 EmeraldSparks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 17:40 ShAsTa wrote:On May 31 2010 17:32 Wr3k wrote:A flotilla full of activists and supplies gets boarded. Do you really think they aren't going to board the ship to at the very least check it out and make sure these activists aren't up to any bullshit?
An official said the soldiers were attacked with knives and clubs as they boarded the six vessels.
The Israeli military said the violence turned deadly after one of the activists grabbed a weapon from one of the commandos. The weapon discharged, though it wasn't clear whether the activist fired it or if it went off accidentally.
I think the key thing to take from this is: Don't attack commandos with knives and clubs and then attempt to take their weapons, otherwise you might get fucking blown away. Did any of you even read the article? Who says they attacked first? The commandos boarded the ship to forcefully stop them. Another horrible act of Israel that will go unpunished. Well, yes, ships that attempt to enter a country's waters and ignore orders to stop get boarded.
If you feel this attack is justified, imagine what the people in Gaza must be thinking.
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On May 31 2010 17:33 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 17:17 hifriend wrote:
These guys have even publicly stated that they aren't really so much interested in bringing aid to gaza, as they are in stirring up a shit storm and pointing out israel as the big bad guy. Well they tried to avoid Israeli waters until day so they could get more publicity, just tells you that's they were not in it for aid but for other reasons.
I don't see how that's mutually exclusive. If you're trying to give aid to somebody and somebody else is preventing you then it only makes sense to try to publicize the fact that people are preventing you in giving aid.
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On May 31 2010 17:46 ShAsTa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 17:42 EmeraldSparks wrote:On May 31 2010 17:40 ShAsTa wrote:On May 31 2010 17:32 Wr3k wrote:A flotilla full of activists and supplies gets boarded. Do you really think they aren't going to board the ship to at the very least check it out and make sure these activists aren't up to any bullshit?
An official said the soldiers were attacked with knives and clubs as they boarded the six vessels.
The Israeli military said the violence turned deadly after one of the activists grabbed a weapon from one of the commandos. The weapon discharged, though it wasn't clear whether the activist fired it or if it went off accidentally.
I think the key thing to take from this is: Don't attack commandos with knives and clubs and then attempt to take their weapons, otherwise you might get fucking blown away. Did any of you even read the article? Who says they attacked first? The commandos boarded the ship to forcefully stop them. Another horrible act of Israel that will go unpunished. Well, yes, ships that attempt to enter a country's waters and ignore orders to stop get boarded. If you feel this attack is justified, imagine what the people in Gaza must be thinking.
Well yeah, they think Israel should implode. Anyway, I believe Israel attempted to board without killing anyone, before encountering violent resistance, mostly because for Israel to do anything else would be completely pants-on-head retarded.
Mostly I'll wait for more information, though.
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On May 31 2010 17:40 ShAsTa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 17:32 Wr3k wrote:A flotilla full of activists and supplies gets boarded. Do you really think they aren't going to board the ship to at the very least check it out and make sure these activists aren't up to any bullshit?
An official said the soldiers were attacked with knives and clubs as they boarded the six vessels.
The Israeli military said the violence turned deadly after one of the activists grabbed a weapon from one of the commandos. The weapon discharged, though it wasn't clear whether the activist fired it or if it went off accidentally.
I think the key thing to take from this is: Don't attack commandos with knives and clubs and then attempt to take their weapons, otherwise you might get fucking blown away. Did any of you even read the article? Who says they attacked first? "They tried to grab a gun." is the oldest trick in the book. Do you believe everything an involved party says? The commandos boarded the ship to forcefully stop them. Another horrible act of Israel that will go unpunished.
well german newspapers reported there were two deaths on the turkish ship and its highely likely that the other 8 deaths were on different ships too. Its unlikely they all grabbed a gun. I do believe the israeli soldiers encountered resistance but nothing they couldnt have handled without killing. Israeli soldiers were always a bit fast when it comes too killing.
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Its so terrible. This conflict will never end as long as the country of Israel is in this location. I think the people who decided to build Israel on this place surrounded by Muslims and on muslim land are either the most stupid or the biggest trolls ever.
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EPT
