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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
Let's face it, alot of kids only do stupid shit just to act more rebellious, the number of people getting cocane and heroin will only increase. Marijuana being legal will not reduce cocane and heroin users because its already more accssible and cheaper in the first place. Drug cartel will no doubt change their business to survive, turning into those more lethal substances, driven down price with bigger supply and become more accessible to everyone. | ||
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TheGiz
Canada708 Posts
Imagine not drug cartels but corporations pushing highly addictive drugs on people. They'd also have marketing on their side, much like the tobacco industry and its propaganda. It would result in a LOT of people getting sucked in and addicted. Government could tax these drugs huge like they do with cigarettes (in some countries), giving them incentive to allow people to get addicted. There is a huge monetary upside, but no real upside aside from weakening the cartels, who would still be in business because they'd be selling the cheaper stuff. Even the legalization of marijuana is probably not smart. Tobacco companies would be all over it. They'd capitalize huge, and you'd have an already lazy, do-nothing, fast-food-gobbling society being LAZIER and eating MORE FAST FOOD. At least people who smoke DO stuff. | ||
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Bowdz
United States202 Posts
On May 25 2011 04:27 furymonkey wrote: My fear is that once marijuana becomes legal, it loses it's rebellious properties. Getting high on marijuana are not longer as cool, and people will turn to more lethal stuff like cocane and heroin. Let's face it, alot of kids only do stupid shit just to act more rebellious, the number of people getting cocane and heroin will only increase. Marijuana being legal will not reduce cocane and heroin users because its already more accssible and cheaper in the first place. Drug cartel will no doubt change their business to survive, turning into those more lethal substances, driven down price with bigger supply and become more accessible to everyone. Which is why all drugs should be legalized. Make them similar to alcohol in the sense that you need an age limit to purchase, public intoxication would be illegal, and driving or operating machinery under the influence of any drug would be illegal. Have a government standard for all of the drugs to ensure that the companies are producing the proper enantiomers in each case, ensure that the drugs are chemically pure, and make sure that people are getting exactly what they are expecting. This alongside a better campaign about the hazards of each drug throughout primary school would allow people to understand the risks associated with doing each drug. The added bonus is that the government gets to tax all of the drugs to hell and back. With respect to this thread, legalizing everything would deal a serious blow to the Cartels, at least with respect to America. Why would anyone turn to the Cartels when you could get a higher quality, more readily available (not to mention legal) version of the substance around the corner? History has proven that a black market will inevitably emerge wherever there is a law prohibiting the purchase or sale of an item. With any luck, legalizing drugs as a whole will have the same effect on the Cartels as it did on the 1920s mobs in America. On May 25 2011 04:43 TheGiz wrote: You can't legalize cocaine or herion. Why? Imagine not drug cartels but corporations pushing highly addictive drugs on people. They'd also have marketing on their side, much like the tobacco industry and its propaganda. It would result in a LOT of people getting sucked in and addicted. Government could tax these drugs huge like they do with cigarettes (in some countries), giving them incentive to allow people to get addicted. There is a huge monetary upside, but no real upside aside from weakening the cartels, who would still be in business because they'd be selling the cheaper stuff. Even the legalization of marijuana is probably not smart. Tobacco companies would be all over it. They'd capitalize huge, and you'd have an already lazy, do-nothing, fast-food-gobbling society being LAZIER and eating MORE FAST FOOD. At least people who smoke DO stuff. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled. Legalizing drugs would allow much more money to be pumped into rehabilitation programs instead of on trying to wage a war (and subsequently waste billions of dollars per year) on drugs that will inevitably be done whether they are legal or illegal. | ||
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Daimiru
74 Posts
The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled. That's very interesting. Do you have primary sources other than the Cato Institute? (This is a serious question, I'm not trying to spring some kind of trap). | ||
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trevf
United States237 Posts
On May 25 2011 04:43 TheGiz wrote: Even the legalization of marijuana is probably not smart. Tobacco companies would be all over it. They'd capitalize huge, and you'd have an already lazy, do-nothing, fast-food-gobbling society being LAZIER and eating MORE FAST FOOD. At least people who smoke DO stuff. LOL. Way to base a policy decision on generalizations. You're an idiot. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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BlackFlag
499 Posts
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On May 25 2011 04:43 TheGiz wrote: You can't legalize cocaine or herion. Why? Imagine not drug cartels but corporations pushing highly addictive drugs on people. They'd also have marketing on their side, much like the tobacco industry and its propaganda. It would result in a LOT of people getting sucked in and addicted. Government could tax these drugs huge like they do with cigarettes (in some countries), giving them incentive to allow people to get addicted. There is a huge monetary upside, but no real upside aside from weakening the cartels, who would still be in business because they'd be selling the cheaper stuff. Even the legalization of marijuana is probably not smart. Tobacco companies would be all over it. They'd capitalize huge, and you'd have an already lazy, do-nothing, fast-food-gobbling society being LAZIER and eating MORE FAST FOOD. At least people who smoke DO stuff. You could forbid any marketing like advertisements on TV, radio, websites, billboards, etc. It could also be forbidden to have drugs on display in shops. Imagine people would have to ask at the pharmacy what products are available to get to see the different brands and producers. As an example, tobacco commercials on TV and radio are banned in Germany since the 1970s. | ||
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archangel967
Canada111 Posts
On May 25 2011 04:43 TheGiz wrote: You can't legalize cocaine or herion. Why? Imagine not drug cartels but corporations pushing highly addictive drugs on people. They'd also have marketing on their side, much like the tobacco industry and its propaganda. It would result in a LOT of people getting sucked in and addicted. Government could tax these drugs huge like they do with cigarettes (in some countries), giving them incentive to allow people to get addicted. There is a huge monetary upside, but no real upside aside from weakening the cartels, who would still be in business because they'd be selling the cheaper stuff. Even the legalization of marijuana is probably not smart. Tobacco companies would be all over it. They'd capitalize huge, and you'd have an already lazy, do-nothing, fast-food-gobbling society being LAZIER and eating MORE FAST FOOD. At least people who smoke DO stuff. Legalize cocaine! Put the coke back in Coke! Seriously though, my feelings on this are that legalizing any drugs that are illegal right now would lead to problems that we can't conceive of right now. (And don't ask me what the problems are...I haven't conceived them yet.  ) It's hard to tell which way things would end up going but my gut feeling is that it wouldn't change much of the current landscape. The government would just be able to make a little more money by taxing what is sold.And let's not fool ourselves. It would likely be illegal for anyone besides government authorized corporations to produce the drugs. If this is true there is still going to be room for drug cartels to operate. | ||
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CakeOrI)eath
United States327 Posts
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Dagobert
Netherlands1858 Posts
On May 25 2011 04:27 furymonkey wrote: My fear is that once marijuana becomes legal, it loses it's rebellious properties. Getting high on marijuana are not longer as cool, and people will turn to more lethal stuff like cocane and heroin. Let's face it, alot of kids only do stupid shit just to act more rebellious, the number of people getting cocane and heroin will only increase. Marijuana being legal will not reduce cocane and heroin users because its already more accssible and cheaper in the first place. Drug cartel will no doubt change their business to survive, turning into those more lethal substances, driven down price with bigger supply and become more accessible to everyone. Right, that's why you see the exact opposite trend here in the Netherlands (NDM, 2009). And it's not even completely legal yet (just mostly tolerated). Facts, dude, you should get some. | ||
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IntoTheBush
United States552 Posts
On May 24 2011 23:58 DharmaTurtle wrote: Props then dude. Of course, this only applies to tokers in the US. I live in the U.S. and I only smoke hydro. Think of the U.S. Legalized Marijuana how much $ the Cartels will lose because of the better product available in the United States. Pot smokers only buy weed from dealers because the High Grade isn't always available or its too expensive. Legalization or Decriminalization of marijuana would cause a decline in other drug use. The only people with blood on their hands are the Cartels, and the U.S. government who lets this happen. O yeah and BTW the DEA, and CIA are all involved with the smuggling of narcotics into the United States. So before you start insulting a group of people and saying they have blood on their hands maybe you should do a little research yourself, and discover how this country has used cartels to fund private wars, and operations. my QUICK 2 cents. u dont want me to actually spend time on my post sir. | ||
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DharmaTurtle
United States283 Posts
DEA, and CIA are all involved with the smuggling of narcotics into the United State Source please. | ||
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WinterNightz
United States111 Posts
On May 25 2011 04:43 TheGiz wrote: You can't legalize cocaine or herion. Why? Imagine not drug cartels but corporations pushing highly addictive drugs on people. They'd also have marketing on their side, much like the tobacco industry and its propaganda. It would result in a LOT of people getting sucked in and addicted. Government could tax these drugs huge like they do with cigarettes (in some countries), giving them incentive to allow people to get addicted. There is a huge monetary upside, but no real upside aside from weakening the cartels, who would still be in business because they'd be selling the cheaper stuff. Seriously? There is so much poor logic in there. 1. Commercials pushing a poisonous product on people is never going to be as bad as the drug cartels who openly murder law enforcement. We have plenty of poisonous habits in America: particularly alcohol and tobacco. Has any tobacco or alcohol company ever hired thugs to murder a police officer? No, not since prohibition ended. 2. You can say that "a LOT" of people would get addicted, but I challenge you to ask every single person you know: if heroin or cocaine were legalized tomorrow, would you even try it? Most people would be smart enough to say no. 3. Apparently you don't understand what giant corporations do. They mass produce a product so that they can make that product as cheap as possible. If Cocaine Incorporated were a Forbes 500 company, I guarantee you its product would be both cheaper and better than anything produced in Mexico. I'm gonna use marijuana as an example, since we're definitely not going to legalize cocaine or any other narcotic before marijuana. First of all, marijuana is incredibly easy to grow. So much so that upon decriminalization, you can expect a metric fuckton of local grow/dispensary operations (this is already the case in California, Colorado, Washington state and probably a whole bunch of other states). When this happens, the market becomes flooded by the local supply, and this local marijuana will be 1. cheaper (easier to grow/transport -> less production cost) and 2. much higher quality (everyone know's california weed's better than mexico weed!). The only options available to the drug cartels are then to a) abandon marijuana altogether and focus on other markets (narcotics, slavery, etc.). b) try and sell larger quantities of lower quality marijuana for even cheaper prices (which, as local US production and transportation becomes more efficient, would simply become non-viable). Without black market prices to make their sell-price incredibly higher than the production-cost, there won't be any viable business option besides abandoning marijuana for other ventures. And that's really what it's going to come down to. If you want the drug war to stop tearing Mexico apart and leaving blood in the streets, you need to change our legislation so that narcotic sales is no longer a viable sales model. The only other option is launching full-scale mechanized warfare against the drug cartels. For general narcotics, we already have giant corporations that produce opiates completely legally. Hydrocodone, oxycodone, codeine, methadone. While you can get these whenever you need them medically (for not-insane prices), these prescription meds get resold in bulk at ridiculous black market prices. And just like above, they're going to be much higher quality than anything produced by Mexican drug cartels. I don't know if they're cheaper, but they're cheap enough that people will pay for the increased quality even while it's criminalized. Imagine if you could go up to the pharmacist and just buy a bottle of codeine syrup for normal price. No drug addict would ever need to go to some dealer on the street selling rocks they need to smoke or snort or shoot up. It's especially ridiculous to think that the drug cartels would be able to compete with the American drug manufacturers in terms of both production capacity and price. p.s. unless I'm reading incorrectly, you're implying that the government will tax drugs heavily, then spend those taxes trying to get more people addicted? I'm sorry but you really must not understand how taxes work. A hard-working productive citizen is going to make way more in tax revenue (and just general help to the economy) than any non-functioning drug addict. And if someone manages to be a functioning addict, then good for them: that's their right as a free individual. p.p.s. as a little side note, it took a grand total of 2 undergraduate chemistry students from my college to produce enough meth-amphetamines to supply the entire LA area, and do so with the purest quality product that the DEA ever saw on the streets. It's not difficult to produce drugs that are better and cheaper than the stuff that's out there. It's just that almost everyone who tries is a complete moron. | ||
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qzlsecret
Mexico126 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
1.) If Mexico legalized the drug it would have zero if any effect on crime due to the sole fact that Cartels are the force behind crime not marijiunia. That and the U.S. is the largest import/customer and so much so that it dictates prices, of marijiunia, not of all drugs though I think that is debatable. 2.) Until the U.S. does so first any effect would as stated above be minimal and legalization would have the Cartel's biggest customer, and it's very bug cash crop, vanish. Mexican Cartels are already having to fight for dominance when it comes to American growers. | ||
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Dagobert
Netherlands1858 Posts
On May 25 2011 11:32 SeCReTT wrote: dude dont you see ? like really legalization for goverments its fake since we know it thats why Mexico reject legalization such a other contrys cause the ones who wants to legalizate it or w.e is written wants to have the control of it cause they now the maount of money this moves, all say legalize so they (goverment) controls the whole thing they dont care about people example tobaco alchol is not same as drugs but it harm people health and they dont mind they let it go and push it It's not cannabis that harms people, it's the fact that they smoke it. You can also ingest it. Stronger effect, so you'll have to dilute it, but there's one harmless way of getting that effect. Both tobacco and alcohol harm way more people and in a much more dangerous way than cannabis. | ||
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MediumSpicy
United States20 Posts
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zorrillo1
22 Posts
The gunfight took place at a crossroads near Ruiz in the Pacific coast state of Nayarit, some 800km (500 miles) north-west of Mexico City. http://neglectedwar.com/blog/archives/5005 | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico – The new police chief in Mexico's deadliest city says bringing crime down and cleaning up the police force should be much easier than it was in Tijuana, where he spent three years as the top cop. Julian Leyzaola, 51, took the Juarez job in March, and he predicted during an interview with The Associated Press on Tuesday that residents will begin seeing results in six months. He said that what he learned in calming Tijuana will help him do the same faster in this city across the border from El Paso, Texas. With more than 3,100 homicides last year, Juarez is one of the deadliest cities in the Western Hemisphere. Leyzaola, a retired army lieutenant colonel, has started a purge of the police ranks. So far, 160 officers have either quit, been fired or arrested, and he predicted that a total of 400 officers will be dismissed this year. His pacification strategy for the city includes taking over one neighborhood at a time with overwhelming police force to drive out criminals. "We will harass them. They will see us everywhere, even in their soup," Leyzaola said. "When there is a murder, it won't be one unit that responds, there will be 30." Source | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
MEXICO CITY – Two of the weapons troops found in the home of the flamboyant former mayor of Tijuana are linked to homicides, prosecutors said Friday. The federal attorney general's office did not specify whether the results of the ballistics tests will result in new criminal charges against 55-year-old Jorge Hank Rhon, who currently faces illegal weapons possession charges. It is up to Baja California state to seek any prosecution for the homicides, the federal attorney general said in a press statement. The two weapons — a .44-caliber revolver and a shotgun — are linked to two killings, said an official with the state attorney's general office who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case publicly. The murders were not high-profile, he said. A photograph of the revolver sent by the federal attorney general shows Hank Rhon's full name engraved on the barrel. "The thing here is the family says they didn't know about the weapons and at least two (guns) have his name on them," said spokesman for the federal attorney general, Ricardo Najera. Hank Rhon's spokesman, Francisco Ramirez, said he was unaware of the development and had no comment. The former mayor's attorney, Fernando Benitez, did not immediately respond to a phone message. Soldiers raided Hank Rhon's home on Saturday and arrested him and 10 other men. The raid yielded an arsenal of illegal weapons including 40 rifles, 48 handguns, 9,298 bullets, 70 ammunition clips and a gas grenade. Only 10 of those weapons were licensed. Source | ||
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