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I like how everyone thinks they are the most compassionate. The Greece answers are hilarious.
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On May 15 2013 17:44 Yuljan wrote:I like how everyone thinks they are the most compassionate. The Greece answers are hilarious.
I like how Poland said that Germany is both the most trustworthy and the least trustworthy. Also, in the report itself there's a table about inequality (of the rich-poor kind) and Germany had the second lowest % of people who thought that the rich-poor gap is a very big problem but by far the highest % of people who thought it should the rich-poor gap should be the government's biggest (economic) priority. Although I guess this can be attributed to the relative strength of the German economy. All the other countries said lack of jobs should be the government's priority.
It seems weird asking Brits about questions like whether or not they are in favour of their government offering financial support to struggling European economies. Britain doesn't use the Euro which makes a big difference in whether or not they should help out.
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On May 15 2013 17:44 Yuljan wrote:I like how everyone thinks they are the most compassionate. The Greece answers are hilarious.
the most arrogant and least arrogant country for france is... france.
haha all the answers are just golden :D
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On May 14 2013 21:08 iloveav wrote:
Economy is mostly based upong the "feeling" on the streets.
You have to realize that money in itself is worth nothing. Its us that give it value.
Thats how the offer-Demand system works:
Money is just a way we have created to exchange goods with a more precise price.
Now, with electronical money, we have done the same thing the Romans did with their coins (changed its value), and due to that, humans had to react in a way. The more intelligence disparity that there is between the educated classes and those that are not, the bigger the potencial for Economical crysis.
1 easy example: Lets assume that a bank is starting to have problems economicly speaking, and we are assuming a big city.
Person A) is afraid that they wont be able to take their money out of the bank, and tries to go get that money out.
Person B) tries to get the population to calm down so the bank can recover from its problems
Person C) spends their money on goods that can be later traded on for other things.
Person D) tries to take away their money to another country.
So who would be the smart one? In my books, person B. Any other option leads to a possible break in the monetary system in the long run and even the guy with the goods wont do much when those goods are forcefully taken away from him.
However. If the intelligance disparity is insignificant, and all the population choose the same option, there is no crysis at all.
Even if every human gets 10 Euros from the bank instead of 10.000, prices will simply adjust to what people can spend.
(again we will give things their value related to money).
The economy on the entire world is a well constructed lie, but telling the truth now would be even worse :D.
And yeah, im kinda looking only at the big picture and excluding isolated events, but its jsut one point of view.
It's not a question of intelligence at all. Most of the time, the best course of action collectively is not the same as the course of action individually : not everybody lose money during a "crisis" you know... some even gain money. There are also problem of information and risk management (in economy the prisonner dilemma is the primary exemple of that, but all the theory around information asymetry can also describe such situations, with the principal agent problem for exemple) that makes the most efficient action almost impossible to achieve.
You also start with the idea of a "feeling of the street" but don't push to it to what it means : there are situations of mimicry, where positives or negatives feelings will spread themselves amongst people and those feelings will have, by themselves, the power to change the situation so that the feeling become reality - the idea of fullfilling prothecy described by Keynes. Those situations aren't really following economical "laws" but rather psychological or sociological mecanisms which makes a lot of what the economists have to say about "crisis" (but you can replace crisis with most of the biggest economical subject like "market" or "economy") rather off and incomplete - see for exemple what Fischer said about the 1997 crisis in Asia and how Stiglitz disagreed with him.
On May 15 2013 18:13 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 17:44 Yuljan wrote:I like how everyone thinks they are the most compassionate. The Greece answers are hilarious. the most arrogant and least arrogant country for france is... france. haha all the answers are just golden :D
I'm sad Britain don't like us.
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On May 14 2013 21:08 iloveav wrote:
Economy is mostly based upong the "feeling" on the streets.
You have to realize that money in itself is worth nothing. Its us that give it value.
Thats how the offer-Demand system works:
Money is just a way we have created to exchange goods with a more precise price.
Now, with electronical money, we have done the same thing the Romans did with their coins (changed its value), and due to that, humans had to react in a way. The more intelligence disparity that there is between the educated classes and those that are not, the bigger the potencial for Economical crysis.
1 easy example: Lets assume that a bank is starting to have problems economicly speaking, and we are assuming a big city.
Person A) is afraid that they wont be able to take their money out of the bank, and tries to go get that money out.
Person B) tries to get the population to calm down so the bank can recover from its problems
Person C) spends their money on goods that can be later traded on for other things.
Person D) tries to take away their money to another country.
So who would be the smart one? In my books, person B. Any other option leads to a possible break in the monetary system in the long run and even the guy with the goods wont do much when those goods are forcefully taken away from him.
However. If the intelligance disparity is insignificant, and all the population choose the same option, there is no crysis at all.
Even if every human gets 10 Euros from the bank instead of 10.000, prices will simply adjust to what people can spend.
(again we will give things their value related to money).
The economy on the entire world is a well constructed lie, but telling the truth now would be even worse :D.
And yeah, im kinda looking only at the big picture and excluding isolated events, but its jsut one point of view.
This is a classical economics problem.
Person A is correct. Everyone else is an idiot. If a bank is experiencing troubles paying it's depositors, then the rational thing to do is to take your money out. In fact, even if it wasn't true that the bank was in trouble, say, it turned out to be a false rumor, the fact that other people will take their money out, will cause the bank to get into trouble. The rational thing to do is to take your money out, because other people will take their money out, so that if you don't take your money out but others do, then the bank will collapse and you won't get paid back. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
As far as I can tell, no bank run has ever been halted by telling people to calm down. The only way to stop it is to have the central bank lend, which is how it usually works, or as in the recent case of Cyprus, close the banks, and block all capital outflows.
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NYTimes: The Eurozone shrinks for the 6 quarter in a row and France returns to recession.
Meanwhile, Krugman has a long article today on "How the Case for Austerity Has Crumbled":
It’s a terrible story, mainly because of the immense suffering that has resulted from these policy errors. It’s also deeply worrying for those who like to believe that knowledge can make a positive difference in the world. To the extent that policymakers and elite opinion in general have made use of economic analysis at all, they have, as the saying goes, done so the way a drunkard uses a lamppost: for support, not illumination. Papers and economists who told the elite what it wanted to hear were celebrated, despite plenty of evidence that they were wrong; critics were ignored, no matter how often they got it right.
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Euroland's credit crunch has been getting some much needed press lately. Some highlights.
Not only is lending shrinking, but lending terms are often getting harder as well - particularly in the periphery:
+ Show Spoiler +
Link
Clearly the securitization market is still shot to hell:
+ Show Spoiler +
Link
Also, How to kill the European repo market in 10 easy steps.
The ECB is partially to blame here, but political decisions, especially regarding national bailouts, play a roll as well.
+ Show Spoiler +The credit crunch now suffocating peripheral Europe is not just the endogenous consequence of weak growth or the Greek crisis; it is also rooted in deliberate policy choices. In October of 2010, Nicholas Sarkozy and Angela Merkel had their famous walk on the beach in Deauville, France and decided that Greece, and sovereign debt more generally, would no longer be sacrosanct: investors in such debt could be subject to default. In July, 2011, such “private sector involvement” (PSI) became official euro zone policy: holders of sovereign debt would have to accept haircuts as a condition of future bailouts. At the same time, the European Banking Authority began its “capital exercise”: European banks would undergo a second round of stress tests, and those found wanting would have to boost capital ratios. But since weak banks couldn’t turn to weak sovereigns or some pan-European fund for new capital, they would have to reduce loans instead.Mario Draghi, the ECB's president, later called the PSI decisions Europe’s Lehman.
Link
In any case, and whatever the cause or solution, the situation needs to be fixed. Otherwise it's just more bad news for Europe's economy.
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On May 15 2013 18:13 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 17:44 Yuljan wrote:I like how everyone thinks they are the most compassionate. The Greece answers are hilarious. the most arrogant and least arrogant country for france is... france. haha all the answers are just golden :D
In a way this couldn't be more fitting ^^
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Some updates:
Italy will leave EUs 'crisis list' after cutting deficit
A fast walkthrough of some of the most important things happening financially in europe outside of Ireland, Greece, Cyprus and Portugal (who are not even close to meeting the requirements):
In general:
These are recommandations of the commission to the EU countries, mostly suggested by the countries themself.
Most courtries get a push for diferent formulations of "reduction of red tape" in some form
Most countries get a recommandation of "increasing pension age" or similar.
Many countries get a push for reform of education system.
Nothing important is mostly weaving on some smaller reforms or the above themes.
Austria (not a deficit country)
Nothing important
Belgium (reducing budget deficit: Should end 2016):
• Establish concrete and time-specific proposals for shifting taxes from labour to less growth-distortive tax bases (Environmental and private use of company cars)
Bulgaria (not a deficit country):
• Prevent "irregularities" in management of EU funds
Czech Republic (not a deficit country):
• Establish concrete and time-specific proposals for shifting taxes from labour to less growth-distortive tax bases (houses and used cars)
• Stamp out corruption in the civil service, including in the management of EU funds
Denmark (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2013)
Nothing important
Estonia (not a deficit country)
• Impose several environmental taxes
Finland (not a deficit country)
Nothing important
France (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2016)
Nothing importat!
Gernany (not a deficit country)
Nothing important
Hungary (not a deficit country)
• Take appropriate measures against corruption
Italy (not a deficit country)
• Reduce debt
• Reduce income tax and increase property, environmental or VAT'
• Reduce shadow economy
Latvia (not a deficit country)
• Reduce income tax and increase property tax
• Increase social security network to fight poverty
Lithuania (not a deficit country)
• Increase tax on property and introduce transport taxes
• Fight poverty (unspecified)
Luxembourg (not a deficit country)
• Increase taxation on energy products for transport
Malta (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2017)
Nothing important
Netherlands (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2015)
• Reform the housing market!
Poland (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2016)
• Massively invest in infrastructure
Romania (not a deficit country)
• Prevent "irregularities" in management of EU funds
Slovakia (not a deficit country)
• Almost a complete rebuild of democratic institutions (courts, administration and ministries)
Slovenia (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2017)
• Make new banking laws, reform existing state asset management and aid failing banks!
Spain (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2018 or later since the report looks at 2013-2017)
• Close holes in tax-system and reduce spending
• Reduce shadow economy
• Reduce the number and shorten licensing procedures, including for industrial activities, and spread the use of the "express licence" approach to activities other than retail
Sweden (not a deficit country)
Nothing important
United Kingdom (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2015)
• Reduce poverty of children and help low wage families
• Take several actions to ensure more housing supply
Be aware that the end of reducing budget deficit is the medium term target for eus financial pact in my numbers but not in Euobservers!
source
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On May 31 2013 05:46 radiatoren wrote:Some updates: Italy will leave EUs 'crisis list' after cutting deficitA fast walkthrough of some of the most important things happening financially in europe outside of Ireland, Greece, Cyprus and Portugal (who are not even close to meeting the requirements): In general: These are recommandations of the commission to the EU countries, mostly suggested by the countries themself. Most courtries get a push for diferent formulations of "reduction of red tape" in some form Most countries get a recommandation of "increasing pension age" or similar. Many countries get a push for reform of education system. Nothing important is mostly weaving on some smaller reforms or the above themes. Austria (not a deficit country) Nothing important Belgium (reducing budget deficit: Should end 2016): • Establish concrete and time-specific proposals for shifting taxes from labour to less growth-distortive tax bases (Environmental and private use of company cars) Bulgaria (not a deficit country): • Prevent "irregularities" in management of EU funds Czech Republic (not a deficit country): • Establish concrete and time-specific proposals for shifting taxes from labour to less growth-distortive tax bases (houses and used cars) • Stamp out corruption in the civil service, including in the management of EU funds Denmark (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2013) Nothing important Estonia (not a deficit country) • Impose several environmental taxes Finland (not a deficit country) Nothing important France (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2016) Nothing importat! Gernany (not a deficit country) Nothing important Hungary (not a deficit country) • Take appropriate measures against corruption Italy (not a deficit country) • Reduce debt • Reduce income tax and increase property, environmental or VAT' • Reduce shadow economy Latvia (not a deficit country) • Reduce income tax and increase property tax • Increase social security network to fight poverty Lithuania (not a deficit country) • Increase tax on property and introduce transport taxes • Fight poverty (unspecified) Luxembourg (not a deficit country) • Increase taxation on energy products for transport Malta (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2017) Nothing important Netherlands (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2015) • Reform the housing market! Poland (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2016) • Massively invest in infrastructure Romania (not a deficit country) • Prevent "irregularities" in management of EU funds Slovakia (not a deficit country) • Almost a complete rebuild of democratic institutions (courts, administration and ministries) Slovenia (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2017) • Make new banking laws, reform existing state asset management and aid failing banks! Spain (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2018 or later since the report looks at 2013-2017) • Close holes in tax-system and reduce spending • Reduce shadow economy • Reduce the number and shorten licensing procedures, including for industrial activities, and spread the use of the "express licence" approach to activities other than retail Sweden (not a deficit country) Nothing important United Kingdom (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2015) • Reduce poverty of children and help low wage families • Take several actions to ensure more housing supply Be aware that the end of reducing budget deficit is the medium term target for eus financial pact in my numbers but not in Euobservers! source
Basically I see two ideas : reduce debt and reduce taxation on labor and social security contribution.
Great plan... lol.
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From the Irish Times:
County’s makeover plan branded ‘a big lie’ as reality of recession is hidden
Hundreds of thousands of pounds have been spent on a Fermanagh facelift as the county prepares for the G8 summit in just under three weeks’ time, but locals complain the work paid for by the local council and the Stormont Executive is little more than skin deep.
More than 100 properties within range of the sumptuous Lough Erne resort which hosts the world’s wealthiest leaders, have been tidied up, painted or power-hosed. ...
Just a few weeks ago, Flanagan’s – a former butcher’s and vegetable shop in the neat village – was cleaned and repainted with bespoke images of a thriving business placed in the windows. Any G8 delegate passing on the way to discuss global capitalism would easily be fooled into thinking that all is well with the free-market system in Fermanagh. But, the facts are different. ...
The butcher’s business has been replaced by a picture of a butcher’s business. Across the road is a similar tale. A small business premises has been made to look like an office supplies store. It used to be a pharmacy, now relocated on the village main street. ...
Elsewhere in Fermanagh, billboard-sized pictures of the gorgeous scenery have been located to mask the occasional stark and abandoned building site or other eyesore.
Link
I don't think that pretending things are good is the way to go (didn't work for Europe's banks)...
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On May 31 2013 06:11 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 05:46 radiatoren wrote:Some updates: Italy will leave EUs 'crisis list' after cutting deficitA fast walkthrough of some of the most important things happening financially in europe outside of Ireland, Greece, Cyprus and Portugal (who are not even close to meeting the requirements): In general: These are recommandations of the commission to the EU countries, mostly suggested by the countries themself. Most courtries get a push for diferent formulations of "reduction of red tape" in some form Most countries get a recommandation of "increasing pension age" or similar. Many countries get a push for reform of education system. Nothing important is mostly weaving on some smaller reforms or the above themes. Austria (not a deficit country) Nothing important Belgium (reducing budget deficit: Should end 2016): • Establish concrete and time-specific proposals for shifting taxes from labour to less growth-distortive tax bases (Environmental and private use of company cars) Bulgaria (not a deficit country): • Prevent "irregularities" in management of EU funds Czech Republic (not a deficit country): • Establish concrete and time-specific proposals for shifting taxes from labour to less growth-distortive tax bases (houses and used cars) • Stamp out corruption in the civil service, including in the management of EU funds Denmark (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2013) Nothing important Estonia (not a deficit country) • Impose several environmental taxes Finland (not a deficit country) Nothing important France (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2016) Nothing importat! Gernany (not a deficit country) Nothing important Hungary (not a deficit country) • Take appropriate measures against corruption Italy (not a deficit country) • Reduce debt • Reduce income tax and increase property, environmental or VAT' • Reduce shadow economy Latvia (not a deficit country) • Reduce income tax and increase property tax • Increase social security network to fight poverty Lithuania (not a deficit country) • Increase tax on property and introduce transport taxes • Fight poverty (unspecified) Luxembourg (not a deficit country) • Increase taxation on energy products for transport Malta (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2017) Nothing important Netherlands (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2015) • Reform the housing market! Poland (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2016) • Massively invest in infrastructure Romania (not a deficit country) • Prevent "irregularities" in management of EU funds Slovakia (not a deficit country) • Almost a complete rebuild of democratic institutions (courts, administration and ministries) Slovenia (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2017) • Make new banking laws, reform existing state asset management and aid failing banks! Spain (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2018 or later since the report looks at 2013-2017) • Close holes in tax-system and reduce spending • Reduce shadow economy • Reduce the number and shorten licensing procedures, including for industrial activities, and spread the use of the "express licence" approach to activities other than retail Sweden (not a deficit country) Nothing important United Kingdom (reducing budget deficit. Should end 2015) • Reduce poverty of children and help low wage families • Take several actions to ensure more housing supply Be aware that the end of reducing budget deficit is the medium term target for eus financial pact in my numbers but not in Euobservers! source Basically I see two ideas : reduce debt and reduce taxation on labor and social security contribution. Great plan... lol.
The recommandations for Spain, Poland and Italy are laugheable. The Spanish recommandations are certain to be insufficient, Demanding of Poland to invest more in infrastructure while they are undergoing budgetary disciplinary shrinking is atrocious and Italys recommandation is completely ignoring their growing long-term recession.
As for the overall view, I think the recommandations I chose illustrated how different each country is trying to act. These "recommandations" are not as much recommandations as they are what each country is promising to do since I know at least Denmark has 3 completely untouched problematic topics: Housing tax reform (remove or make it market-value dependant. We cannot keep a frozen tax based on 2005 valuations...), private debt reform (so many payment-free loans and so much flexi-rate lending that it will kill off a lot of peoples economy if the rates increase) and reform of safety net in terms of reducing bureaucracy, which hasn't happened with the new reform.
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On June 01 2013 01:07 JonnyBNoHo wrote:From the Irish Times: Show nested quote +County’s makeover plan branded ‘a big lie’ as reality of recession is hidden
Hundreds of thousands of pounds have been spent on a Fermanagh facelift as the county prepares for the G8 summit in just under three weeks’ time, but locals complain the work paid for by the local council and the Stormont Executive is little more than skin deep.
More than 100 properties within range of the sumptuous Lough Erne resort which hosts the world’s wealthiest leaders, have been tidied up, painted or power-hosed. ...
Just a few weeks ago, Flanagan’s – a former butcher’s and vegetable shop in the neat village – was cleaned and repainted with bespoke images of a thriving business placed in the windows. Any G8 delegate passing on the way to discuss global capitalism would easily be fooled into thinking that all is well with the free-market system in Fermanagh. But, the facts are different. ...
The butcher’s business has been replaced by a picture of a butcher’s business. Across the road is a similar tale. A small business premises has been made to look like an office supplies store. It used to be a pharmacy, now relocated on the village main street. ...
Elsewhere in Fermanagh, billboard-sized pictures of the gorgeous scenery have been located to mask the occasional stark and abandoned building site or other eyesore. LinkI don't think that pretending things are good is the way to go (didn't work for Europe's banks)...
wth that sounds so incredibly stupid and deceitful it makes me angry
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On June 01 2013 04:26 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 01:07 JonnyBNoHo wrote:From the Irish Times: County’s makeover plan branded ‘a big lie’ as reality of recession is hidden
Hundreds of thousands of pounds have been spent on a Fermanagh facelift as the county prepares for the G8 summit in just under three weeks’ time, but locals complain the work paid for by the local council and the Stormont Executive is little more than skin deep.
More than 100 properties within range of the sumptuous Lough Erne resort which hosts the world’s wealthiest leaders, have been tidied up, painted or power-hosed. ...
Just a few weeks ago, Flanagan’s – a former butcher’s and vegetable shop in the neat village – was cleaned and repainted with bespoke images of a thriving business placed in the windows. Any G8 delegate passing on the way to discuss global capitalism would easily be fooled into thinking that all is well with the free-market system in Fermanagh. But, the facts are different. ...
The butcher’s business has been replaced by a picture of a butcher’s business. Across the road is a similar tale. A small business premises has been made to look like an office supplies store. It used to be a pharmacy, now relocated on the village main street. ...
Elsewhere in Fermanagh, billboard-sized pictures of the gorgeous scenery have been located to mask the occasional stark and abandoned building site or other eyesore. LinkI don't think that pretending things are good is the way to go (didn't work for Europe's banks)... wth that sounds so incredibly stupid and deceitful it makes me angry
What did you expect? Ireland is supposed to be the model "country turned around through austerity!" Sad thing, the country isn't doing all that great, especially when you talk about the average person/family/business. There has been a recent move by some companies, mostly pharma, but some tech, that abuse the laws of Ireland to off-shore profits in branches that have no employees, like a complicated Swiss bank account of 2013. Props up GDP, but the economy in terms of employment and wages doesn't grow (much), so they have to fill in the gaps artificially to tell the same success story.
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On June 01 2013 05:16 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 04:26 JieXian wrote:On June 01 2013 01:07 JonnyBNoHo wrote:From the Irish Times: County’s makeover plan branded ‘a big lie’ as reality of recession is hidden
Hundreds of thousands of pounds have been spent on a Fermanagh facelift as the county prepares for the G8 summit in just under three weeks’ time, but locals complain the work paid for by the local council and the Stormont Executive is little more than skin deep.
More than 100 properties within range of the sumptuous Lough Erne resort which hosts the world’s wealthiest leaders, have been tidied up, painted or power-hosed. ...
Just a few weeks ago, Flanagan’s – a former butcher’s and vegetable shop in the neat village – was cleaned and repainted with bespoke images of a thriving business placed in the windows. Any G8 delegate passing on the way to discuss global capitalism would easily be fooled into thinking that all is well with the free-market system in Fermanagh. But, the facts are different. ...
The butcher’s business has been replaced by a picture of a butcher’s business. Across the road is a similar tale. A small business premises has been made to look like an office supplies store. It used to be a pharmacy, now relocated on the village main street. ...
Elsewhere in Fermanagh, billboard-sized pictures of the gorgeous scenery have been located to mask the occasional stark and abandoned building site or other eyesore. LinkI don't think that pretending things are good is the way to go (didn't work for Europe's banks)... wth that sounds so incredibly stupid and deceitful it makes me angry What did you expect? Ireland is supposed to be the model "country turned around through austerity!" Sad thing, the country isn't doing all that great, especially when you talk about the average person/family/business. There has been a recent move by some companies, mostly pharma, but some tech, that abuse the laws of Ireland to off-shore profits in branches that have no employees, like a complicated Swiss bank account of 2013. Props up GDP, but the economy in terms of employment and wages doesn't grow (much), so they have to fill in the gaps artificially to tell the same success story.
That's actually in Northern Ireland, part of the UK.
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LONDON — The unemployment rate across the 17 European countries that use the euro hit a record 12.2 percent in April, and the number of unemployed is on track to reach 20 million by year's end.
The worsening jobs crisis points to the recession that has gripped the euro alliance. Many countries are struggling to stimulate growth while grappling with a debt crisis that's led governments to slash spending and raise taxes.
Unemployment in the eurozone rose in April from the previous record of 12.1 percent set in March, Eurostat, the European Union's statistics office, said Friday. In 2008, before the worst of the financial crisis, the rate was far less – around 7.5 percent.
The number of unemployed rose 95,000 to 19.38 million. The currency bloc's population is about 330 million.
Private companies in the eurozone haven't managed to fill the vacuum created by drastically reduced government spending. In the United States, by contrast, governments have imposed far milder spending cuts and tax increases. Unemployment, at 7.5 percent, is far lower. And consumers and private companies have kept spending, steadily if modestly.
The unemployment rate for the overall eurozone masks sharp disparities among individual countries. Unemployment in Greece and Spain top 25 percent. In Germany, the rate is a low 5.4 percent.
Source
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On June 01 2013 11:04 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +LONDON — The unemployment rate across the 17 European countries that use the euro hit a record 12.2 percent in April, and the number of unemployed is on track to reach 20 million by year's end.
The worsening jobs crisis points to the recession that has gripped the euro alliance. Many countries are struggling to stimulate growth while grappling with a debt crisis that's led governments to slash spending and raise taxes.
Unemployment in the eurozone rose in April from the previous record of 12.1 percent set in March, Eurostat, the European Union's statistics office, said Friday. In 2008, before the worst of the financial crisis, the rate was far less – around 7.5 percent.
The number of unemployed rose 95,000 to 19.38 million. The currency bloc's population is about 330 million.
Private companies in the eurozone haven't managed to fill the vacuum created by drastically reduced government spending. In the United States, by contrast, governments have imposed far milder spending cuts and tax increases. Unemployment, at 7.5 percent, is far lower. And consumers and private companies have kept spending, steadily if modestly.
The unemployment rate for the overall eurozone masks sharp disparities among individual countries. Unemployment in Greece and Spain top 25 percent. In Germany, the rate is a low 5.4 percent. Source
European Commission has also recently extended the deadline for countries to implement austerity measures. One would think that if you're walking along a street and you see a gunman, the correct response isn't to continue walking towards the gunman more slowly, the correct response is to run the other way.
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On June 01 2013 12:27 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 11:04 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:LONDON — The unemployment rate across the 17 European countries that use the euro hit a record 12.2 percent in April, and the number of unemployed is on track to reach 20 million by year's end.
The worsening jobs crisis points to the recession that has gripped the euro alliance. Many countries are struggling to stimulate growth while grappling with a debt crisis that's led governments to slash spending and raise taxes.
Unemployment in the eurozone rose in April from the previous record of 12.1 percent set in March, Eurostat, the European Union's statistics office, said Friday. In 2008, before the worst of the financial crisis, the rate was far less – around 7.5 percent.
The number of unemployed rose 95,000 to 19.38 million. The currency bloc's population is about 330 million.
Private companies in the eurozone haven't managed to fill the vacuum created by drastically reduced government spending. In the United States, by contrast, governments have imposed far milder spending cuts and tax increases. Unemployment, at 7.5 percent, is far lower. And consumers and private companies have kept spending, steadily if modestly.
The unemployment rate for the overall eurozone masks sharp disparities among individual countries. Unemployment in Greece and Spain top 25 percent. In Germany, the rate is a low 5.4 percent. Source European Commission has also recently extended the deadline for countries to implement austerity measures. One would think that if you're walking along a street and you see a gunman, the correct response isn't to continue walking towards the gunman more slowly, the correct response is to run the other way.
Not if you invested tremendous political capital in the belief that austerity will set you free and also buy into the moral view that its 'lazy' and 'corrupt' Southerners vs the 'thrifty' and 'virtuous' Germanics. In that case it just means you have to whip harder.
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On June 01 2013 14:33 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 12:27 paralleluniverse wrote:On June 01 2013 11:04 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:LONDON — The unemployment rate across the 17 European countries that use the euro hit a record 12.2 percent in April, and the number of unemployed is on track to reach 20 million by year's end.
The worsening jobs crisis points to the recession that has gripped the euro alliance. Many countries are struggling to stimulate growth while grappling with a debt crisis that's led governments to slash spending and raise taxes.
Unemployment in the eurozone rose in April from the previous record of 12.1 percent set in March, Eurostat, the European Union's statistics office, said Friday. In 2008, before the worst of the financial crisis, the rate was far less – around 7.5 percent.
The number of unemployed rose 95,000 to 19.38 million. The currency bloc's population is about 330 million.
Private companies in the eurozone haven't managed to fill the vacuum created by drastically reduced government spending. In the United States, by contrast, governments have imposed far milder spending cuts and tax increases. Unemployment, at 7.5 percent, is far lower. And consumers and private companies have kept spending, steadily if modestly.
The unemployment rate for the overall eurozone masks sharp disparities among individual countries. Unemployment in Greece and Spain top 25 percent. In Germany, the rate is a low 5.4 percent. Source European Commission has also recently extended the deadline for countries to implement austerity measures. One would think that if you're walking along a street and you see a gunman, the correct response isn't to continue walking towards the gunman more slowly, the correct response is to run the other way. Not if you invested tremendous political capital in the belief that austerity will set you free and also buy into the moral view that its 'lazy' and 'corrupt' Southerners vs the 'thrifty' and 'virtuous' Germanics. In that case it just means you have to whip harder.
Does that mean you think that corruption isn't a huge problem in countries like greece or italy?
In that case educating yourself about the political career of berlusconi and the way taxes and any issues of the people at government offices in greece were handled for years (and for a large part still are) may help you, I've talked to enough greeks from rural and urban regions and that's not exactly a secret.
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On June 01 2013 21:00 SilentchiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 14:33 Sub40APM wrote:On June 01 2013 12:27 paralleluniverse wrote:On June 01 2013 11:04 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:LONDON — The unemployment rate across the 17 European countries that use the euro hit a record 12.2 percent in April, and the number of unemployed is on track to reach 20 million by year's end.
The worsening jobs crisis points to the recession that has gripped the euro alliance. Many countries are struggling to stimulate growth while grappling with a debt crisis that's led governments to slash spending and raise taxes.
Unemployment in the eurozone rose in April from the previous record of 12.1 percent set in March, Eurostat, the European Union's statistics office, said Friday. In 2008, before the worst of the financial crisis, the rate was far less – around 7.5 percent.
The number of unemployed rose 95,000 to 19.38 million. The currency bloc's population is about 330 million.
Private companies in the eurozone haven't managed to fill the vacuum created by drastically reduced government spending. In the United States, by contrast, governments have imposed far milder spending cuts and tax increases. Unemployment, at 7.5 percent, is far lower. And consumers and private companies have kept spending, steadily if modestly.
The unemployment rate for the overall eurozone masks sharp disparities among individual countries. Unemployment in Greece and Spain top 25 percent. In Germany, the rate is a low 5.4 percent. Source European Commission has also recently extended the deadline for countries to implement austerity measures. One would think that if you're walking along a street and you see a gunman, the correct response isn't to continue walking towards the gunman more slowly, the correct response is to run the other way. Not if you invested tremendous political capital in the belief that austerity will set you free and also buy into the moral view that its 'lazy' and 'corrupt' Southerners vs the 'thrifty' and 'virtuous' Germanics. In that case it just means you have to whip harder. Does that mean you think that corruption isn't a huge problem in countries like greece or italy? In that case educating yourself about the political career of berlusconi and the way taxes and any issues of the people at government offices in greece were handled for years (and for a large part still are) may help you, I've talked to enough greeks from rural and urban regions and that's not exactly a secret.
To be fair, corruption exists in Germany too, although probably not to the same scale (Schroeder and Gazprom is a pretty good example). The OECD has statistics on average annual hours worked in member countries, and in its most recent year (2011) Germany came only above The Netherlands. It was below Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Greece. (source)
I'm not trying to say that Germans are lazy or corrupt, just that the narrative of southern countries being lazy and corrupt doesn't really tell the whole story.
Also, Greece is a special case. It isn't fair to treat Spain and Portugal the same as Greece. I think Italy is somewhere in the middle :p
Edit: I meant in the middle in terms of how fair the corruption narrative is, but it also works geographically 
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EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKOVsWRCUAALTst.png:large)
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