|
Welp, we always knew they'ed find some way out out of the levy, there is a reason they control the world. However, the Reuters article suggests it isn't as bad as some people in this thread seem to think it is,it doesn't look like the ultra-rich were able to get all their money out. Key point
Chris Pavlou, who was vice chairman of Laiki until Friday, said while some money was withdrawn over a period of several days it was in the order of millions of euros, not billions.
and it is also important to note that their assets were completely frozen, so they won't be getting any more than what they salvaged, which, if the above quote is not a lie, should still generate a lot of revenue for the EU.
Maybe people losing trust in banks is a good thing in the long term, look at how these ones screwed up.
|
On March 27 2013 08:44 Kaitlin wrote:
First, you seem to have missed the point entirely. Second, why do you automatically assume such a person is underpaid ? She may have been overpaid, in fact.
I'm not missing your point, I'm making fun of the fact that you think there's a designated person for opening up new accounts. I know she's underpaid, because I work at a bank myself and have a decent clue. Of course it's a different country, but considering the fact that the vast majority people working behind the counter at a bank have no higher education, I'd say it's very unlikely that she's overpaid. It's probably comparable to working at McDonalds.
|
The point was that people aren't going to be opening accounts at Cyprus banks. Nobody in their right mind, at least. You making fun of a comedic construct assuming that I believe such a person exists whose sole job it is to set up new accounts is also silly. Further, if the vast majority of people working behind the counter have no higher education, and it's comparable to working at McDonald's, it follows that it would be quite difficult to underpay such a person with no substantive job skills. Such a person may not be highly paid, but that's very different from being underpaid. Underpaid means they are worth more than that, but as you put it, their job is quite simple and requires really no talent whatsoever. Anyways, take the comment for what it was, a comment about Cyprus screwing over their system, instead of turning everything into a "struggle" for higher pay.
|
So I wonder if there are estimates on how much depositors withdrew on the first day?
Banks in Cyprus have ended their first day of business after nearly two weeks of a lockdown, with the foreign minister saying capital controls could remain in force longer than expected.
"A number of restrictions will be lifted and gradually, probably over a period of about a month according to the estimates of the central bank, the restrictions will be fully lifted," Ioannis Kasoulides told reporters on Thursday.
Kasoulides's comments came as Cypriot banks reopened for the first time after the government was forced to accept a tough EU rescue package to avoid bankruptcy.
Cypriots queued calmly to withdraw limited amounts of cash, but there was no sign of a run on deposits, as had been feared.
Banks were shut for nearly two weeks while the government negotiated a $13bn international bailout from the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank and European Union.
Cyprus is the first country in Europe's single currency zone to impose losses on bank depositors.
The government initially said the controls would remain in place for a week, subject to review.
Economists say they will prove hard to lift as long as the economy is in crisis.
Source
|
On March 29 2013 11:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:So I wonder if there are estimates on how much depositors withdrew on the first day? Show nested quote +Banks in Cyprus have ended their first day of business after nearly two weeks of a lockdown, with the foreign minister saying capital controls could remain in force longer than expected.
"A number of restrictions will be lifted and gradually, probably over a period of about a month according to the estimates of the central bank, the restrictions will be fully lifted," Ioannis Kasoulides told reporters on Thursday.
Kasoulides's comments came as Cypriot banks reopened for the first time after the government was forced to accept a tough EU rescue package to avoid bankruptcy.
Cypriots queued calmly to withdraw limited amounts of cash, but there was no sign of a run on deposits, as had been feared.
Banks were shut for nearly two weeks while the government negotiated a $13bn international bailout from the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank and European Union.
Cyprus is the first country in Europe's single currency zone to impose losses on bank depositors.
The government initially said the controls would remain in place for a week, subject to review.
Economists say they will prove hard to lift as long as the economy is in crisis. Source
I don't think you're allowed to take very much out of the bank with the capital controls in place.
That really sucks. Imagine getting a paycheck, trying to cash it at the bank, but they only give you a tiny fraction of the cash and the rest gets stuck. Does anyone know how much people are allowed to take out/get from checks?
|
On March 29 2013 12:34 fight_or_flight wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 11:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:So I wonder if there are estimates on how much depositors withdrew on the first day? Banks in Cyprus have ended their first day of business after nearly two weeks of a lockdown, with the foreign minister saying capital controls could remain in force longer than expected.
"A number of restrictions will be lifted and gradually, probably over a period of about a month according to the estimates of the central bank, the restrictions will be fully lifted," Ioannis Kasoulides told reporters on Thursday.
Kasoulides's comments came as Cypriot banks reopened for the first time after the government was forced to accept a tough EU rescue package to avoid bankruptcy.
Cypriots queued calmly to withdraw limited amounts of cash, but there was no sign of a run on deposits, as had been feared.
Banks were shut for nearly two weeks while the government negotiated a $13bn international bailout from the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank and European Union.
Cyprus is the first country in Europe's single currency zone to impose losses on bank depositors.
The government initially said the controls would remain in place for a week, subject to review.
Economists say they will prove hard to lift as long as the economy is in crisis. Source I don't think you're allowed to take very much out of the bank with the capital controls in place. That really sucks. Imagine getting a paycheck, trying to cash it at the bank, but they only give you a tiny fraction of the cash and the rest gets stuck. Does anyone know how much people are allowed to take out/get from checks?
If I remember correctly, I saw in the newspaper that citizens were allowed to take out 300 € / day. But don't quote me on the precise number. The important part is : It is indeed a very small amount.
|
On March 29 2013 16:04 Bermuda wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 12:34 fight_or_flight wrote:On March 29 2013 11:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:So I wonder if there are estimates on how much depositors withdrew on the first day? Banks in Cyprus have ended their first day of business after nearly two weeks of a lockdown, with the foreign minister saying capital controls could remain in force longer than expected.
"A number of restrictions will be lifted and gradually, probably over a period of about a month according to the estimates of the central bank, the restrictions will be fully lifted," Ioannis Kasoulides told reporters on Thursday.
Kasoulides's comments came as Cypriot banks reopened for the first time after the government was forced to accept a tough EU rescue package to avoid bankruptcy.
Cypriots queued calmly to withdraw limited amounts of cash, but there was no sign of a run on deposits, as had been feared.
Banks were shut for nearly two weeks while the government negotiated a $13bn international bailout from the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank and European Union.
Cyprus is the first country in Europe's single currency zone to impose losses on bank depositors.
The government initially said the controls would remain in place for a week, subject to review.
Economists say they will prove hard to lift as long as the economy is in crisis. Source I don't think you're allowed to take very much out of the bank with the capital controls in place. That really sucks. Imagine getting a paycheck, trying to cash it at the bank, but they only give you a tiny fraction of the cash and the rest gets stuck. Does anyone know how much people are allowed to take out/get from checks? If I remember correctly, I saw in the newspaper that citizens were allowed to take out 300 € / day. But don't quote me on the precise number. The important part is : It is indeed a very small amount.
300 EUR per day, thats their quota. In addition to this, they cannot take more than 1000 EUR abroad. It is all being a means to keep as much cash in the banks as possible.
|
Cyprus ofshore banking is completely death and will never recover from this.
Maybe its not such a bad thing.What people should not forget though is that this can basicly happen in every european country, even germany,
What i dont like about the cyprus deal is that the bond holders again escape. (as far as i know)
Deposits should always come before bondholders, and to now make deposits loose 20% while some bondholders still get 100% back simply does not feel right.
300 a day is not much but its enough to do all your daily shoppings, if you have bigger expenses you can but you need to get permission for them.It is an absolute horror for the people, specially the richer ones as poor people probs dont even have 1k in the bank (their monthly paycheck..)
The poor people (thoose with less then 1-2k in the bank) wont switch banks because of this but everyone who has over 20k might. Still cyprus banks should be safe now, after the bailout.
It would be annoying to now take the 80% of your monney wich you got left to say malta, and then see a crisis happening there and get taxed 20% once more lol.
|
|
|
Maybe it's the medicine that's needed...to knock some of these havens on the head.
|
Yeah, they are gambling (and leeching taxes) a lot more worse than Cyprus ever has. Not much one can do about it though. That's also one of the reasons why Jean-Claude Juncker (MP of Luxemburg and former head of Euro group) was so vocal about the deposit levies used for the Cyprus bail-out, he knows what is going to happen to Luxemburg should their banking sector ever start to stumble.
|
they want no rogue banks in the EU; submission of the banking system.
|
On March 29 2013 23:55 sc4k wrote:Maybe it's the medicine that's needed...to knock some of these havens on the head.
If we are going to shut down tax havens to consolidate the one currency zone... well... let's just say we'll have a lot of work on our hands.
Luxembourg obviously. But also Malta. Monaco. Lichtenstein. Andorra. Isn't there also a tiny british island ? Anh what will we do about Vatican ? Not really a tax haven, but still a fiscal oddity.
There's also the possibility to abuse fiscal loopholes in different countries : you can settle a dual company with two heads (one in the Netherlands, one in Ireland) and never pay any tax at all. Even my own country is considered by some fiscal friendly because there is no tax on market gain (shares value). Although it might be considered more political than anything. But still there's vast cultural differences between EU countries when it comes to banking / tax politics.
I guess my question is : will the one currency to rule them all actually force us to a fiscal union despite the fact that nobody has the courage anymore to even talk about it since it is such a political bomb. The difficulty from those tax havens might just be the symptom...
|
On March 29 2013 18:08 Rassy wrote:
Cyprus ofshore banking is completely death and will never recover from this.
Maybe its not such a bad thing.What people should not forget though is that this can basicly happen in every european country, even germany,
What i dont like about the cyprus deal is that the bond holders again escape. (as far as i know)
Deposits should always come before bondholders, and to now make deposits loose 20% while some bondholders still get 100% back simply does not feel right.
300 a day is not much but its enough to do all your daily shoppings, if you have bigger expenses you can but you need to get permission for them.It is an absolute horror for the people, specially the richer ones as poor people probs dont even have 1k in the bank (their monthly paycheck..)
The poor people (thoose with less then 1-2k in the bank) wont switch banks because of this but everyone who has over 20k might. Still cyprus banks should be safe now, after the bailout.
It would be annoying to now take the 80% of your monney wich you got left to say malta, and then see a crisis happening there and get taxed 20% once more lol.
My understanding is that bondholders (all classes) will be affected.
Alphaville article:
3) It’s also a senior bank bond bail-in.
Holders of Laiki’s senior unsecured debt look fully wiped out. There’s barely more than €100m of it floating around. Hardly world-shattering but a victory for creditor hierarchy. Senior bondholders of BoC get a haircut (or will make a “contribution”, in the lifeless 3am Eurogroupese), avoiding total wipeout because it’s not in full wind-down. Again, there’s not much of this paper there either, but it is a sign of a step forward. I found Olli Rehn’s insistence that there was “no change of doctrine” here pretty unconvincing. While I guess Irish citizens who watched Anglo pay out its senior bonds for all that time will be pretty miffed. Link
Eurogroup Statement on Cyprus (25 March):
1. Laiki will be resolved immediately - with full contribution of equity shareholders, bond holders and
uninsured depositors - based on a decision by the Central Bank of Cyprus, using the newly adopted Bank Resolution Framework. ...
5. BoC will be recapitalised through a deposit/equity conversion of uninsured deposits with full contribution of equity shareholders and bond holders. Link
Unless something changed (again!).
|
On March 29 2013 12:34 fight_or_flight wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 11:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:So I wonder if there are estimates on how much depositors withdrew on the first day? Banks in Cyprus have ended their first day of business after nearly two weeks of a lockdown, with the foreign minister saying capital controls could remain in force longer than expected.
"A number of restrictions will be lifted and gradually, probably over a period of about a month according to the estimates of the central bank, the restrictions will be fully lifted," Ioannis Kasoulides told reporters on Thursday.
Kasoulides's comments came as Cypriot banks reopened for the first time after the government was forced to accept a tough EU rescue package to avoid bankruptcy.
Cypriots queued calmly to withdraw limited amounts of cash, but there was no sign of a run on deposits, as had been feared.
Banks were shut for nearly two weeks while the government negotiated a $13bn international bailout from the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank and European Union.
Cyprus is the first country in Europe's single currency zone to impose losses on bank depositors.
The government initially said the controls would remain in place for a week, subject to review.
Economists say they will prove hard to lift as long as the economy is in crisis. Source I don't think you're allowed to take very much out of the bank with the capital controls in place. That really sucks. Imagine getting a paycheck, trying to cash it at the bank, but they only give you a tiny fraction of the cash and the rest gets stuck. Does anyone know how much people are allowed to take out/get from checks?
I dont think anybody in europe still gets paychecks ....
|
On March 30 2013 01:19 Skilledblob wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 12:34 fight_or_flight wrote:On March 29 2013 11:37 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:So I wonder if there are estimates on how much depositors withdrew on the first day? Banks in Cyprus have ended their first day of business after nearly two weeks of a lockdown, with the foreign minister saying capital controls could remain in force longer than expected.
"A number of restrictions will be lifted and gradually, probably over a period of about a month according to the estimates of the central bank, the restrictions will be fully lifted," Ioannis Kasoulides told reporters on Thursday.
Kasoulides's comments came as Cypriot banks reopened for the first time after the government was forced to accept a tough EU rescue package to avoid bankruptcy.
Cypriots queued calmly to withdraw limited amounts of cash, but there was no sign of a run on deposits, as had been feared.
Banks were shut for nearly two weeks while the government negotiated a $13bn international bailout from the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank and European Union.
Cyprus is the first country in Europe's single currency zone to impose losses on bank depositors.
The government initially said the controls would remain in place for a week, subject to review.
Economists say they will prove hard to lift as long as the economy is in crisis. Source I don't think you're allowed to take very much out of the bank with the capital controls in place. That really sucks. Imagine getting a paycheck, trying to cash it at the bank, but they only give you a tiny fraction of the cash and the rest gets stuck. Does anyone know how much people are allowed to take out/get from checks? I dont think anybody in europe still gets paychecks ....
Only the french I think still use check regularly. If you want to have some fun, try to ask a frenchie to make an european bank transfert over internet.
There's a really good chance that hilarity will ensue. 
|
Difference between luxembourg and cyprus is that luxembourg is verry rich and always has been verry rich. Cyprus itself always has been one of the poorest countrys in the eu. Dont think something similar will happen to luxembourg.
There are capital restrictions already on dutch banks btw,You can not use your bankcards outside europe annymore unless you go to the bank to arrange it wich is no standard procedure.
Officially it is to avoid fraud but personally i am thinking that it is done simply because banks from outside europe dont trust the dutch banks for 100% annymore to get their monney back (if you make a payment outside europe, or get cash from the cash dispenser it are the local banks who give it to you, and they then have to get it back from the dutch banks).
Today i read that dutch banks have a safings shortage of 270 billion euro (wich is like halve the gdp of the netherlands)
Basicly another 270b is needed to make the banks completely healthy and make the basel 3 requirements. (wich is needed by 2019)
Commerz bank in germany is not in good shape either and might need to be bailed out sooner or later.
|
On March 30 2013 02:15 Rassy wrote:
Difference between luxembourg and cyprus is that luxembourg is verry rich and always has been verry rich. Cyprus itself always has been one of the poorest countrys in the eu. Dont think something similar will happen to luxembourg.
There are capital restrictions already on dutch banks btw,You can not use your bankcards outside europe annymore unless you go to the bank to arrange it wich is no standard procedure.
Officially it is to avoid fraud but personally i am thinking that it is done simply because banks from outside europe dont trust the dutch banks for 100% annymore to get their monney back (if you make a payment outside europe, or get cash from the cash dispenser it are the local banks who give it to you, and they then have to get it back from the dutch banks).
Today i read that dutch banks have a safings shortage of 270 billion euro (wich is like halve the gdp of the netherlands)
Basicly another 270b is needed to make the banks completely healthy and make the basel 3 requirements. (wich is needed by 2019)
Commerz bank in germany is not in good shape either and might need to be bailed out sooner or later.
Do you still have the source for that? I'd like to read it. Anyway a big problem for banks liquidity wise is that you can't just transfer saving from for example the US to NL because of protectionism.
|
So 300 euros is what, 390ish dollars a day....? What about Businesses or small business in this case, in the US were apathetic as hell when it comes to being screwed over but if such a thing happened here there might be riots in the street.
What about food prices, inflation? Rent?
Question to any Finnish TL'ers:
+ Show Spoiler +
Are you pissed that after having joined the EU you are now having pay for other countries, better to have stayed out?
|
On March 30 2013 04:00 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 02:15 Rassy wrote:
Difference between luxembourg and cyprus is that luxembourg is verry rich and always has been verry rich. Cyprus itself always has been one of the poorest countrys in the eu. Dont think something similar will happen to luxembourg.
There are capital restrictions already on dutch banks btw,You can not use your bankcards outside europe annymore unless you go to the bank to arrange it wich is no standard procedure.
Officially it is to avoid fraud but personally i am thinking that it is done simply because banks from outside europe dont trust the dutch banks for 100% annymore to get their monney back (if you make a payment outside europe, or get cash from the cash dispenser it are the local banks who give it to you, and they then have to get it back from the dutch banks).
Today i read that dutch banks have a safings shortage of 270 billion euro (wich is like halve the gdp of the netherlands)
Basicly another 270b is needed to make the banks completely healthy and make the basel 3 requirements. (wich is needed by 2019)
Commerz bank in germany is not in good shape either and might need to be bailed out sooner or later. Do you still have the source for that? I'd like to read it. Anyway a big problem for banks liquidity wise is that you can't just transfer saving from for example the US to NL because of protectionism.
Yes, if you could find the source on that, I would be interested as well.
All I know is that ING had a 1 billion EUR loan from the Dutch governement. They repaid it. They had to sell their Asia insurance business (not sure they sold it all yet) due to a decision from some Europe institution. And they had an exposure to Spain bonds which they were trying to take care of (But Spain seems out of the headlines right now, but maybe not forever).
If you have any more information on the Dutch banking sector, I would be interested. Especially that 270 billion figure.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
