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The European Debt Crisis and the Euro - Page 116

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JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
April 05 2013 03:25 GMT
#2301
On April 05 2013 11:56 fight_or_flight wrote:
Europe in a nutshell right now:


Damn! Once again Europeans show their epic road trip superiority :D
HellRoxYa
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden1614 Posts
April 05 2013 03:29 GMT
#2302
On April 03 2013 06:57 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2013 05:39 RvB wrote:
On April 03 2013 05:34 Elorun wrote:
On April 02 2013 22:48 Bermuda wrote:
On March 31 2013 20:18 Rassy wrote:
It was a bit difficult to find and i cant find the original article annymore.
Annyway:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-10/basel-iii-punishes-dutch-over-risk-that-isn-t-mortgages.html

Scroll down a bit to the paragraph about the funding gap , its even 300b here.

Also in dutch:

http://www.mejudice.nl/artikelen/detail/nederlandse-banken-hoog-niveau-leningen-ten-opzichte-van-spaartegoeden-

6 more months till the german elections,then we will know how they eurozone will handle the crisis and the economy for the next few years.
I do hope and expect the europeans to change the austerity policy to a policy of monetary easing the day after merkel has been reelected.
There is definatly room for monetary easing, as japan and the usa do it at a huge scale already.
Maybe euro can go back to 1.20 or even 1.10 after the elections. Atm euro is undervalued imo, it should be like ~ 1.40 if current euro austerity combined with usa and japan monetary easing was here to stay.


Thank you. After reading the Bloomberg article, here is what I understand :

The Dutch banks have high quality loans (Because, historically, the Dutch repay their debt and are near 0 default. So they are really good quality assets). But, because of the Basel III rules, those cannot be used to fulfill the new liquidity obligations.

At the same time, worst assets (including spanish loans that have a way higher default rate) can be used.

It is important to understand that the Dutch banks don't have "a hole" of 270 billions. They have those 270 billions in high quality assets (mortgage backed securities from some of the best loans of the planet). But they cannot use it to fulfill their new european obligations because those loans were given at 95% the value of the home (Basell III rules accept only loans up to 80% the value of the home to count toward the new liquidity obligation).

It is problematic of course, but not as problematic as if they actually had to find 270 billions out of nothing. Because, even if they cannot use those loans for the new liquidity rules, the loans are still there. They still possess them.

Possible solutions :

1) They ask for a change in Basel III rules, because that part of the rules is stupid. Seriously, accounting risky spanish loans while refusing ultra secured dutch loans... wtf.

2) They sell those mortgage backed securities (possibly at a discount) to some private investors. In that case, they will have to come with the rest of the money (the discount). But it will never be 270 billions, it will be far less. And there will be buyers because those are high quality assets. The real problem being that no european banks can buy it, since it is not taken into account for Basel III (so they will have to sell at a discount to private investors).

TL;DR : yeah it is stupid and problematic but not as problematic as a 270 billion deficit. The actual amount missing is just the discount they will have to accept (probably a small % of the total 270 billion).


I think the main issue facing the Dutch banks right now is that the Dutch property bubble is on the verge of exploding. I found a nice article that explains it better than I ever could

The Netherlands falls prey to economic crisis

A big part of it is also because the laws surrounding mortgages have been changed 3 times in a year which caused a lot of confusion on the market and a lot f people obv won't buy a house when they don't know what the politicians will decide in 3 months time concerning the biggest financial transaction in your life.


Its not the mortgage laws but the overall insane house prices. And whenever the stupidly high prices drop a tiny bit the brokers all scream the sky is falling.


And how do insane house prices come along again?

Would the prices be insane if noone could get a loan for the houses?
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
April 05 2013 09:54 GMT
#2303
On April 05 2013 11:56 fight_or_flight wrote:
Europe in a nutshell right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ilh5iUQIb4s


fitting 1 ton of gold in a car yeah right >_>
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
April 05 2013 12:12 GMT
#2304
More like Italian tax evasion in a nutshell.
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
SilentchiLL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany1405 Posts
April 05 2013 12:16 GMT
#2305
On April 05 2013 18:54 JieXian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 11:56 fight_or_flight wrote:
Europe in a nutshell right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ilh5iUQIb4s


fitting 1 ton of gold in a car yeah right >_>


Pure gold is VERY heavy.
possum, sed nolo - Real men play random. ___ "Who the fuck is Kyle?!" C*****EX
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-05 12:27:02
April 05 2013 12:24 GMT
#2306
that whole car has about 1,2 - 1,4 tones ... (without the gold in it).
I doubt the tone of gold too.
1 tone = 1000kg
Metric ton (tonne): 2204 pounds (1000 kg)
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Sulphurized
Profile Joined January 2013
Austria8 Posts
April 05 2013 12:37 GMT
#2307
since ton is a measure for mass, which initially has to be diversified from volume I can't see a problem fitting a ton of gold into a car of average size. gold has pretty high density, so it needs less volume to put just as much as other materials on the scales - capiche?
there's just to find out if the car and its axles can handle so much weigh and such.
RCMDVA
Profile Joined July 2011
United States708 Posts
April 05 2013 13:33 GMT
#2308
The report in the video is wrong. It wasn't a ton. It was close to 300lbs of gold. 12 or so bars at 25lbs - 12.5kg each.

A ton of gold would be ~80 bars and be worth $50 million. Now that COULD fit into the car. But that car with 5 people in it would be slammed to the pavement and the suspension shocks/springs would be fully compressed.
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4742 Posts
April 05 2013 14:09 GMT
#2309
Yeah the problem isnt the amount of space, but the weight of that gold. Still 100kg of gold =6milion $
Pathetic Greta hater.
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
April 05 2013 15:21 GMT
#2310
On April 05 2013 21:37 Sulphurized wrote:
since ton is a measure for mass, which initially has to be diversified from volume I can't see a problem fitting a ton of gold into a car of average size. gold has pretty high density, so it needs less volume to put just as much as other materials on the scales - capiche?
there's just to find out if the car and its axles can handle so much weigh and such.


hahaha I think tu non capiche la situazione
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Sulphurized
Profile Joined January 2013
Austria8 Posts
April 05 2013 17:42 GMT
#2311
On April 06 2013 00:21 JieXian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 21:37 Sulphurized wrote:
since ton is a measure for mass, which initially has to be diversified from volume I can't see a problem fitting a ton of gold into a car of average size. gold has pretty high density, so it needs less volume to put just as much as other materials on the scales - capiche?
there's just to find out if the car and its axles can handle so much weigh and such.


hahaha I think tu non capiche la situazione


sure I do, but my little smartassery is just refering to a bs discussion about wether a ton of gold fits into a car with half of the people talking about mass and the other half about volume and all together is totally irrelevant anyway ...
your don has spoken.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 06 2013 22:34 GMT
#2312
Portugal's government says the constitutional court's rejection of austerity measures from this year's budget creates serious difficulties in meeting international bailout commitments.

Luis Marques Guedes, state decretary for cabinet affairs, said on Saturday that the decision "jeopardises the country's hard-earned credibility" gained with its European partners and lenders and would have a negative impact on the austerity programme under way.

He said that Pedro Passos Coelho, the Portuguese prime minister, had requested an emergency meeting with President Anibal Cavaco Silva to discuss the complex situation.

The court ruled late on Friday that some of the unpopular pay cuts in this year's state budget were unlawful, denying the government about 1.4bn euros ($1.8bn) of predicted revenue.

The government said that it would accept the ruling after it held an extraordinary cabinet meeting on Saturday.

The constitutional court's decision delivers a setback to the austerity strategy agreed between the government and foreign creditors who lent Portugal 78bn euros ($101.5bn) in a bailout two years ago.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
radiatoren
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Denmark1907 Posts
April 07 2013 17:03 GMT
#2313
Earlier someone mentioned Luxembourg as being a tax haven like Cyprus. A german newspaper caught the leash and tried to push Luxembourg a bit. Somewhat surprisingly the finance minister mentioned a willingness to increase international cooperation against tax evasion:

main source (german)
The beeps version
Repeat before me
theinfamousone
Profile Joined February 2011
United States103 Posts
April 08 2013 07:24 GMT
#2314
LOL. Cyprus thinks this is actually a good thing. Their entire economy depends on the security they offer with their banks. They just killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. They'll need more bailouts sooner rather than later and when they do, there won't be any easy sources of billions of dollars.
Roman666
Profile Joined April 2012
Poland1440 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-08 13:44:20
April 08 2013 13:39 GMT
#2315
On April 08 2013 16:24 theinfamousone wrote:
LOL. Cyprus thinks this is actually a good thing. Their entire economy depends on the security they offer with their banks. They just killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. They'll need more bailouts sooner rather than later and when they do, there won't be any easy sources of billions of dollars.

Yeap, their only hope now is to make money out of tourism. Which in fact will proabably hit the top, as in the current situation they will become a much cheaper country for tourists. I dont see any other way for them to get back on their feet, their whole economy was based on two branches - banks and tourism, where the bank branch was substantially larger and now it is pretty much defunct. There will be no more 5h working days, as there is nothing at this point to support that salary/hour ratio without government leeching on low taxed large deposits.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-09 17:14:57
April 09 2013 17:14 GMT
#2316
Greece is considering slapping a €162 billion invoice on Germany as compensation for the Second World War.

Athens has compiled a top-secret report that says the cash - enough to solve the Greeks' debt crisis - is owed in war reparations, Der Spiegel reported.

But the Greeks are said to be reluctant to take on mighty Germany over the debt, for fear of antagonising its Eurozone paymaster.

The Greek media is said to be more bullish, with the To Vima newspaper headlined: "What Germany Owes Us".

It set out a number of possible ways that Germany could repay the cash, after a panel of experts spent months preparing the 80-page classified report.

Details of its findings were leaked to To Vima, Der Spiegel said.

Its conclusion was that "Greece never received any compensation, either for the loans it was forced to provide to Germany or for the damages it suffered during the war."

A wealth of archive material was studied as part of the assessment, and the total includes cash for the reconstruction of infrastructure, and the repayment of 'forced loans'.

Athens, whilst reserving the right to take action in the future, was said to be wary of pressing ahead with a demand for payment.

Der Spiegel quoted a senior government official saying: "This is no time to pick a fight with Berlin."


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
frontliner2
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Netherlands844 Posts
April 09 2013 17:22 GMT
#2317
On April 10 2013 02:14 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Greece is considering slapping a €162 billion invoice on Germany as compensation for the Second World War.

Athens has compiled a top-secret report that says the cash - enough to solve the Greeks' debt crisis - is owed in war reparations, Der Spiegel reported.

But the Greeks are said to be reluctant to take on mighty Germany over the debt, for fear of antagonising its Eurozone paymaster.

The Greek media is said to be more bullish, with the To Vima newspaper headlined: "What Germany Owes Us".

It set out a number of possible ways that Germany could repay the cash, after a panel of experts spent months preparing the 80-page classified report.

Details of its findings were leaked to To Vima, Der Spiegel said.

Its conclusion was that "Greece never received any compensation, either for the loans it was forced to provide to Germany or for the damages it suffered during the war."

A wealth of archive material was studied as part of the assessment, and the total includes cash for the reconstruction of infrastructure, and the repayment of 'forced loans'.

Athens, whilst reserving the right to take action in the future, was said to be wary of pressing ahead with a demand for payment.

Der Spiegel quoted a senior government official saying: "This is no time to pick a fight with Berlin."


Source


Oh dear, this tells me this could be a big issue in EUpolitik
I had a bad dream. Don't be afraid, bad dreams are only dreams. What a time you chose to be born in...
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4742 Posts
April 09 2013 17:23 GMT
#2318
No its not. Anyone bringing WWII into current disscusion will be ridiculed and nothing more. (unless You are being sarcastic, in that case, YEAH).
Pathetic Greta hater.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22145 Posts
April 09 2013 17:28 GMT
#2319
Yeah i cant see that getting anything other then an FU as a responce.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Yuljan
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
2196 Posts
April 09 2013 17:28 GMT
#2320
And there is no legal basis for this anyway. No reparations without a peace treaty and since we already have something like a peace treaty with the 4+2 agreement we will certainly not make peace separately with all the 40+ nations who were at war with us. The greece might use this as an argument for not repaying their debt though.
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