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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
Now a little earlier this year, a student was prosecuted for something he did at home with footage taken from his school computer used as evidence against him. Do you guys think the school should be allowed to do this? Here's a link to an article with some extra information: http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: boingboing/iBag (Boing Boing) | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blake_J._Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District | ||
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Chen
United States6344 Posts
99.99% sure this is blatantly illegal, esp if they didn't tell you that they were there, probably still illegal if they did tell you | ||
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laLAlA[uC]
Canada963 Posts
How can that be legal? Invasion of privacy? | ||
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Conquest101
United States1395 Posts
First off, they give you laptops to use? Cool. Second, lol no, school absolutely should not be allowed to do this. WTF. Seriously, what if some underage girl is like changing clothes in front of said webcam? Child pornography right there. | ||
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LOLMARINE
United States28 Posts
Schools shouldn't be allowed to do this, its just creepy, how do they know some pedo teacher won't be spying on high school chicks? I would've sued too, pretty sure this is illegal. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
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Conquest101
United States1395 Posts
Upon a report of a suspected lost, stolen or missing laptop, the feature was activated by the District's security and technology departments. The tracking-security feature was limited to taking a still image of the operator and the operator's screen. This feature has only been used for the limited purpose of locating a lost, stolen or missing laptop. The District has not used the tracking feature or web cam for any other purpose or in any other manner whatsoever. Isn't that total BULLSHIT, since they apparently used it to get some incriminating evidence against said student? He was at home, so obviously the laptop was not "lost, stolen, or missing". lol they are so screwed. | ||
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Chen
United States6344 Posts
On February 19 2010 12:52 LOLMARINE wrote: this is YOUR school? I'd be scared for about 5 minutes, and then get revenge (uninstall the camera drivers and dl lots of porn, or start talking to your teachers over the camera and be like "I KNOW YOUR THERE!".) Schools shouldn't be allowed to do this, its just creepy, how do they know some pedo teacher won't be spying on high school chicks? I would've sued too, pretty sure this is illegal. the wikipedia article says there is reason to believe that some people actually did that. good god this is fucked up, the school better get whats coming to them "many of the images captured and intercepted may consist of minors and their parents or friends in compromising or embarrassing positions" including "various stages of undress". | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
Letter from Dr. McGinley to parents/guardians regarding laptop security Dear LMSD Parents/Guardians, Our history has been to go to great lengths to protect the privacy of our students; whether it comes to student health, academic or other records. In fact, many of you may remember the heated debate over whether to have security cameras monitor some of our food vending machines. Privacy is a basic right in our society and a matter we take very seriously. We believe that a good job can always be done better. Recent publicity regarding the District's one-to-one high school laptop initiative, and questions about the security of student laptops prompted our administration to revisit security procedures. Laptops are a frequent target for theft in schools and off school property. District laptops do contain a security feature intended to track lost, stolen and missing laptops. The security feature, which was disabled today, was installed to help locate a laptop in the event it was reported lost, missing or stolen so that the laptop could be returned to the student. Upon a report of a suspected lost, stolen or missing laptop, the feature would be activated by the District's security and technology departments. The security feature's capabilities were limited to taking a still image of the operator and the operator's screen. This feature was only used for the narrow purpose of locating a lost, stolen or missing laptop. The District never activated the security feature for any other purpose or in any other manner whatsoever. As a result of our preliminary review of security procedures today, I directed the following actions: * Immediate disabling of the security-tracking program. * A thorough review of the existing policies for student laptop use. * A review of security procedures to help safeguard the protection of privacy; including a review of the instances in which the security software was activated. We want to ensure that any affected students and families are made aware of the outcome of laptop recovery investigations. * A review of any other technology areas in which the intersection of privacy and security may come into play. We are proud of the fact that we are a leader in providing laptops to every high school student as part of our instructional program. But we need to be equally as proud of the safeguards we have in place to protect the privacy of the users, as well as to safeguard district-owned property while being used by students. We regret if this situation has caused any concern or inconvenience among our students and families. If you have any questions or concerns, please email us at info@lmsd.org. Additional information has been posted on our website, www.lmsd.org. Thank you for your time and attention. Sincerely, Dr. Christopher W. McGinley Superintendent of Schools Lower Merion School District http://www.lmsd.org/sections/news/default.php?m=0&t=today&p=lmsd_anno&id=1138 | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
On February 19 2010 12:55 LunarDestiny wrote: I think it is unconstitution for the school to do this. But I have one question: did the school warn the student about not to use the laptop to do those "unlawful" things? They said nothing of the sort. Only today did the school say the school only does this if a laptop is stolen or lost and the student that started all this hadn't paid his issuance and thus the computer may have been assumed to have been stolen, but the fact that they used what they got as evidence to get him in trouble makes this extremely questionable. | ||
alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
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Fen
Australia1848 Posts
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The6357
United States1268 Posts
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ggrrg
Bulgaria2716 Posts
And the principal should already be thinking how to get along with the inmates in your local state prison... | ||
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LOLMARINE
United States28 Posts
On February 19 2010 12:58 The6357 wrote: lol am i the only one wondering what the kid did to get displinary action? probably porn+fap | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
On February 19 2010 12:58 The6357 wrote: lol am i the only one wondering what the kid did to get displinary action? Definetly not :S but this is some serious shit, the school is in big trouble :o any half-decent lawyer could win this case (unless the thing the kid got in trouble for was that he didn't return the labtop while the labtop camera saw that he was definetly still owning it). | ||
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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
http://www.lmsd.org/sections/news/default.php?m=0&t=today&p=lmsd_anno&id=1138 tl;dr We didn't do anything wrong. We don't spy on our students. | ||
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seRapH
United States9776 Posts
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sRapers_ValkS
United States644 Posts
I personally had heard from teachers very early in the school year about how they can the cameras to find lost or stolen computers, so the information was NOT unknown or secret. really crazy shit to be honest, i rarely use my laptop at home though so I never thought much about it. | ||
DivinO
United States4796 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On February 19 2010 13:05 DivinO wrote: This can't be legal. Gotta wonder what the kid did though... Whatever happens afterward, that kid's life had been screwed. | ||
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Mastermind
Canada7096 Posts
On February 19 2010 12:47 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: Do you guys think the school should be allowed to do this? Of course not. That is a massive violation of privacy. I am wondering how much footage they have of naked children and I am hoping they do so they can be charged with child porn. | ||
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LuMiX
China5757 Posts
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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
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SanguineToss
Canada815 Posts
On February 19 2010 12:59 ggrrg wrote: I bet you can squeeze out tons of money by suing the shit out of that school. And the principal should already be thinking how to get along with the inmates in your local state prison... omfg lololololololol | ||
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Athos
United States2484 Posts
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
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Eben
United States769 Posts
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Chen
United States6344 Posts
On February 19 2010 13:24 Athos wrote: I remember playing you guys in football when I was in high school. This is a really fucked up situation especially since you really don't need a laptop for high school at all. i personally found a laptop invaluable for AP art history. 90 minute lectures every day means ~15 pages of notes per day. my friends had cramped hands every day for the first 2 weeks cause of that class. The only reason this isnt a major felony is if there is a small print somewhere that says we reserve the right to use this webcam to check to see if it is stolen, and by borrowing it you void your right to privacy. | ||
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eXNewB
Canada291 Posts
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SleepSheep
Canada344 Posts
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Nal_rAwr
United States2611 Posts
yeah that shit is against the law | ||
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JadeFist
United States1225 Posts
On February 19 2010 13:23 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: It is. Not to be a smartass but it's right outside of phili in the suburbs. I live in the same county, rival school etc. Also, tell ben to play more starcraft k thx bye. Also, wow Lower Merrion must be rich as shit cuz Cheltenham could never afford that kind of crap. | ||
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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
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ZidaneTribal
United States2800 Posts
edit: maybe the principal is a terrorist | ||
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sRapers_ValkS
United States644 Posts
and regardless of what they have the "right" to do, it still makes my skin crawl that every time i open up that computer there could be someone watching me. | ||
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
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randombum
United States2378 Posts
Then again you guys are high school students so you guys practically have less rights than animals. They pretty much screwed themselves either way if the fine prints (if they have any) says for in case of stolen/blah blah, but they use it as evidence for a student doing something wrong, that basically says they are doing more than just using it to track stolen computers. Either way, this is just crazy. | ||
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Chen
United States6344 Posts
On February 19 2010 13:47 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: technically the school has the right to anything that is on the computer and has the right to confiscate or use the computer because of these forms we signed in the beginning of the year. and since the cameras are built in, some people are claiming they have a right to use the cameras remotely. that changes things. if they specifically say that we reserve the right to spy on you because this is our shit and in order to borrow it you must abide by our rules. if they do anything short of getting your signature explicitly letting them do what they did, it is highly illegal. | ||
micronesia
United States24723 Posts
On February 19 2010 13:47 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: technically the school has the right to anything that is on the computer and has the right to confiscate or use the computer because of these forms we signed in the beginning of the year. and since the cameras are built in, some people are claiming they have a right to use the cameras remotely. Having the right to own the stuff on the computer while it's at students' houses is different than having the right to do anything with that stuff. I don't know how the law will interpret this case though. | ||
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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
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snotboogie
Australia3550 Posts
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mmp
United States2130 Posts
Because it's illegal, nothing obtained should be solely used against you. Any evidence obtained from the unlawful surveillance cannot be the basis for prosecution. In practice, law enforcement will cite other "suspicions" as the basis of an investigation and it's very hand-wavy if the information will be permissible in court - you could argue that without the controversial evidence there is no case at all - but it comes down to the persuasiveness of the legal entities, and the experience of the judge. Consider an extreme example: the school witnesses a murder and informs the police. Upon discovery, a missing person investigation (and subsequently homicide upon discovery of the corpse) is launched, and the evidence is then fair game. No citizen wants a murder to go unpunished, so common sense says the suspicions were a reasonable basis for prosecution. In practice, "common sense" is necessary to solve these issues, but aggressive (good) prosecution will knowingly try to break the rules and persuade a judge to allow it - it's up to the experience and alertness of the judge to do the right thing in common sense situations. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
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reit
Canada209 Posts
Delicious loli buds mhmmmm | ||
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skippy2591
United States46 Posts
On February 19 2010 12:47 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: So my school has recently been discovered to have been spying on its students through the built in webcams in school issued computers. These computers were given out to each and every student to take home and use for the entirety of the school year for both school work and personal use. Now a little earlier this year, a student was prosecuted for something he did at home with footage taken from his school computer used as evidence against him. Do you guys think the school should be allowed to do this? Here's a link to an article with some extra information: http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: boingboing/iBag (Boing Boing) I'd say the school is allowed to do this, especially if they love lawsuits!  nah, therez a reazon why you have to sign all thoze annoying release forms when you get involved in school activities, and that reason is so the school can avoid lawsuits when students are recorded preforming certain activities (like therater, or dance). addressing the school's letter of "omg, we'll cut it off, plz don't sue", I would have to say that there is a pretty defined line between security and privacy invasion, and i just pray that the sewing parties at least see this as a security measure gone arry, and don't end up doing something stupid like having the cameras in the school taken down for "privacy invasion"... a little farfetched, but it could happen damit! >.< | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On February 19 2010 13:47 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: technically the school has the right to anything that is on the computer and has the right to confiscate or use the computer because of these forms we signed in the beginning of the year. and since the cameras are built in, some people are claiming they have a right to use the cameras remotely. You CAN NOT sign away certain rights no matter what. I'm not a lawyer and all I know is from Business Law class, but it sounds like you guys signed an illegal contract. Illegal contracts are unenforceable. | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
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ToeJam
United States282 Posts
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MyStiC_Chaos
United States499 Posts
On a side note: I only know of this school cause Kobe Bryant went there. | ||
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Fen
Australia1848 Posts
On February 19 2010 13:56 Chen wrote: that changes things. if they specifically say that we reserve the right to spy on you because this is our shit and in order to borrow it you must abide by our rules. if they do anything short of getting your signature explicitly letting them do what they did, it is highly illegal. Doesnt change shit. You cant just write whatever you want in small print at think it will hold up. Regardless if the students signed a form allowing this to happen, this is still illegal and the school will go down in flames for this. | ||
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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
On February 19 2010 15:13 MyStiC_Chaos wrote: Dumb school IMO. Why would you even think of doing this? I don't see how they will lose this case. The statement on the website is just a lie. They used it to get a student in trouble. Clearly it wasn't just so they could keep an eye on the laptops... On a side note: I only know of this school cause Kobe Bryant went there. Lower Merion High School is now famous for two things: 1. Kobe Bryant and 2. Spying on its kids through the computers it provided | ||
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Chen
United States6344 Posts
On February 19 2010 15:17 Fen wrote: Doesnt change shit. You cant just write whatever you want in small print at think it will hold up. Regardless if the students signed a form allowing this to happen, this is still illegal and the school will go down in flames for this. If the students waived their right to privacy, then they cant sue. edit, the lawyer a couple posts up probably knows more. i have no idea what constitutes an illegal contract and what doesnt. | ||
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EmeraldSparks
United States1451 Posts
They are pretty fucked. And no, signing a form with small fine print does not make the aforementioned legal. Period. | ||
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anch
United States5457 Posts
maybe the principal wants a SC2 key. | ||
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ghermination
United States2851 Posts
Maybe he smoked a bowl on camera? Fucked his girlfriend? What could he possibly have done that would have been so bad that the school didn't even think about getting sued when they "disciplined" him. | ||
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fight_or_flight
United States3988 Posts
For years I put tape over my laptop's webcam. I guess my paranoia isn't actually paranoia now? What really bugs me about my pc is that when I turn the sound volume all the way up, I get a feedback tone from the mic. wtf? My mic is disabled in the sound control panel. | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2394 Posts
On February 19 2010 12:51 Conquest101 wrote:Seriously, what if some underage girl is like changing clothes in front of said webcam? Child pornography right there. I like the way it's only if a girl is changing that it's pornography XD Hope you're not projecting. | ||
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BlueRoyaL
United States2493 Posts
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LaSt)ChAnCe
United States2179 Posts
On February 19 2010 12:51 Conquest101 wrote: Lawsuit already arrived actually =p. First off, they give you laptops to use? Cool. Second, lol no, school absolutely should not be allowed to do this. WTF. Seriously, what if some underage girl is like changing clothes in front of said webcam? Child pornography right there. i wonder how many girls at that school got caught on candid camera diddling their skittles | ||
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Suc
Australia1569 Posts
Again, I'm not advocating the spying aspect, they should have definitely not gone the webcam route and they should have notified the students if they were being monitored at all. | ||
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LaSt)ChAnCe
United States2179 Posts
On February 19 2010 13:47 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: technically the school has the right to anything that is on the computer and has the right to confiscate or use the computer because of these forms we signed in the beginning of the year. and since the cameras are built in, some people are claiming they have a right to use the cameras remotely. that won't hold up in court | ||
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
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DorF
Sweden961 Posts
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DorF
Sweden961 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17399 Posts
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Jayve
155 Posts
Solution: Sticker --> Ontop of webcam Caveman approach works everytime. | ||
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KurtistheTurtle
United States1966 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On February 19 2010 17:43 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: i wonder how many girls at that school got caught on candid camera diddling their skittles AHAHA I have never heard that slang before, but it made me burst out laughing. Whoever revealed themselves by using that recorded evidence from a webcam was really stupid too. On February 19 2010 19:06 Jayve wrote: There's a simpler way to deal with it than uninstalling drivers. Solution: Sticker --> Ontop of webcam Caveman approach works everytime. Hi me caveman too! | ||
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Gnosis
Scotland912 Posts
On February 19 2010 19:24 KurtistheTurtle wrote: lol could somebody from the school give us a better view of the situation? what did the kid do/what caused them to monitor the footage? there is so much hate for the school when really it was probably 1 or 2 people who fucked it up for everybody or just an unfortunate situation. I mean, the principal going to jail? seriously? Did you get paid to post this? The school entered into the home of its students uninvited then proceeded to record their lives in certain circumstances (doesn't matter if it's a still photograph or not). The school has already shot itself in the foot by punishing this kid for something that happened inside his home. | ||
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iFU.pauline
France1653 Posts
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Piste
6180 Posts
very, very disturbing... | ||
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daemos
United States8 Posts
Legal? Maybe. If the laptops are school property or if there is a signed agreement between the student and the school regarding use of the laptop, the school is in the right to be able to use the software. The issue of spying is something completely different though | ||
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pyrogenetix
China5098 Posts
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Fen
Australia1848 Posts
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/digitalnation/learning/schools/how-google-saved-a-school.html The above video has a segement at about 4mins in where the principal of a school demonstrates that he can view students using the remote camera feature. He then even goes on to say that a lot of students use the laptops like they would mirrors etc. He even gloats about how students are not aware thay they are watching. I'm really surprised this type of activity could have flown under the radar for so long. Its just soo easy to abuse. | ||
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KwarK
United States43187 Posts
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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
On February 19 2010 20:01 Gnosis wrote: Did you get paid to post this? The school entered into the home of its students uninvited then proceeded to record their lives in certain circumstances (doesn't matter if it's a still photograph or not). The school has already shot itself in the foot by punishing this kid for something that happened inside his home. No one knows exactly what the kid did in front of the camera, but the general consensus seems to be that the kid was blazing up or something like that, but who knows. Also, the school wasn't constantly monitoring him, it was just one or two pictures. Also, for all of you saying that we should just uninstall the webcam drivers, the computers are MacBooks first of all and secondly, we are not allowed to install anything on these computers. They have disabled the disk mounter and you cannot copy any form of program onto the computer. | ||
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Craton
United States17262 Posts
Also, for all of you saying that we should just uninstall the webcam drivers, the computers are MacBooks first of all and secondly, we are not allowed to install anything on these computers. They have disabled the disk mounter and you cannot copy any form of program onto the computer. Always ways to get around security limitations, especially when you have complete access to the hardware. technically the school has the right to anything that is on the computer and has the right to confiscate or use the computer because of these forms we signed in the beginning of the year. and since the cameras are built in, some people are claiming they have a right to use the cameras remotely No they don't -- not even in the slightest. They would [probably] have the right to search the contents of the laptop, but never to right to use it as an intermediary for peeping. Do you think a school would ever be allowed to install a security camera in a student's house? Just because the methodology is different doesn't change the result. | ||
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EvilSky
Czech Republic548 Posts
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SiDX
New Zealand1975 Posts
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Tomer
United States105 Posts
On February 19 2010 12:51 Chen wrote: invasion of privacy and first amendment rights. get together with everyone else that got a computer and sue their ass to hell. 99.99% sure this is blatantly illegal, esp if they didn't tell you that they were there, probably still illegal if they did tell you QFT I hope the people responsible from the schools get a hardcore banhammer coming down on them! | ||
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CaptainPlatypus
United States852 Posts
Also, now that you all know about this, you've put pieces of tape over the webcams or something, right? | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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Zhek
Canada342 Posts
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Jackafur
United States116 Posts
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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Hyperbola
United States2543 Posts
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crabapple
United States397 Posts
On February 19 2010 12:47 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: So my school has recently been discovered to have been spying on its students through the built in webcams in school issued computers. These computers were given out to each and every student to take home and use for the entirety of the school year for both school work and personal use. Now a little earlier this year, a student was prosecuted for something he did at home with footage taken from his school computer used as evidence against him. Do you guys think the school should be allowed to do this? Here's a link to an article with some extra information: http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: boingboing/iBag (Boing Boing) Alex jones was crazy. Alex jones is an extremist. Alex jones is a conspiracy nut. Alex jones is simply looking at tucked away info, using is head and putting 2 and 2 together folks. Alex jones is not even a prophet. | ||
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Gnosis
Scotland912 Posts
On February 19 2010 22:37 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: No one knows exactly what the kid did in front of the camera, but the general consensus seems to be that the kid was blazing up or something like that, but who knows. Also, the school wasn't constantly monitoring him, it was just one or two pictures. Also, for all of you saying that we should just uninstall the webcam drivers, the computers are MacBooks first of all and secondly, we are not allowed to install anything on these computers. They have disabled the disk mounter and you cannot copy any form of program onto the computer. It's irrelevant what the kid was doing. Here are three problems: 1) the school was monitoring him long enough to take "one or two pictures," (which is one or two pictures too many, by the way) allowing any lawyer with half a brain to ask "how many times did they watch, how long, and who?" and 2) the school took pictures without informing anyone that these web cams can be remotely activated at any time (you know, "consent forms"), allowing the school to monitor anyone in the vicinity of the computer (not just the student) and 3) anyone with the proper know how can have access to these web cams, potentially compromising the safety of a student and his family. Just Imagine every home came installed with its very own camera and microphone and that these can be activated at any time by government, your employee or any hacker who wants a laugh. You won't consent to it unless you're living in Oceania and have no choice, or stupid. The school's "right" to protect its property does not supersede the privacy rights of its students and their families, especially in their homes off of school property. I have to wonder about anyone who feels the school is in any way justified, even if the student was engaging in some sort of illegal activity. I also have to wonder why the school turned on his web cam while he was at home in the first place. They're going to lose any lawsuit thrown at them as they've already admitted what they've done, it's just a question of how much. If I had been given a laptop in high school (too old for that) the first thing I would have done is format it, I don't care how many "do not's" they would have listed. I'm not one to trust school boards. | ||
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Sulli
Canada236 Posts
The fact that the school only took photos doesn't make them any less incriminating. Since the laptop hadn't been stolen, their actions are only explained by random surveillance. It is possible that they either take random snapshots, or they could potentially take snapshots from all the laptops at set times. Out of the hundreds of staff members, someone out there is spying into your privacy. Who knows what they do with all the unreported data they collect? That is just plain creepy and fucked up. And please don't suggest formatting the computers. Even though the schools are in blame for this case, if you decide to wipe out the computer software, you're destroying school property and you're 100% at fault. You might as well just toss the laptop into a box and close it with a lid. | ||
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daz
Canada643 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
Not to mention that infants (what the law calls minors) can get out of any contracts they sign, unless the court determines that they are abusing the hell out of that privilege. | ||
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PanN
United States2828 Posts
On February 19 2010 22:37 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: No one knows exactly what the kid did in front of the camera, but the general consensus seems to be that the kid was blazing up or something like that, but who knows. Also, the school wasn't constantly monitoring him, it was just one or two pictures. Also, for all of you saying that we should just uninstall the webcam drivers, the computers are MacBooks first of all and secondly, we are not allowed to install anything on these computers. They have disabled the disk mounter and you cannot copy any form of program onto the computer. Have you heard of a thing called tape? Alex jones was crazy. Alex jones is an extremist. Alex jones is a conspiracy nut. Alex jones is simply looking at tucked away info, using is head and putting 2 and 2 together folks. Alex jones is not even a prophet. Ok crabapple, you're way too much of a conspiracy nut. And I lol'd so hard at "alex jones is not even a prophet" lollolol | ||
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SARS
United States25 Posts
I remember seeing kids smoke right on the skirt of the school boundary but custodians unable to do anything about it b/c they were not on the school ground. On February 19 2010 13:47 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: technically the school has the right to anything that is on the computer and has the right to confiscate or use the computer because of these forms we signed in the beginning of the year. and since the cameras are built in, some people are claiming they have a right to use the cameras remotely. The school may have the right to confiscate since the laptops are bought under the school's name. BUT they do not have the right to invade people's privacy. Just imagine what would happen if Steve Jobs spied on people with webcams through macbooks. EDIT: stupid spacing. | ||
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PanN
United States2828 Posts
On February 20 2010 03:04 SARS wrote: Honestly, since when did High School have any right on students out of the school boundary? I remember seeing kids smoke right on the skirt of the school boundary but custodians unable to do anything about it b/c they were not on the school ground. The school may have the right to confiscate since the laptops are bought under the school's name. BUT they do not have the right to invade people's privacy. Just imagine what would happen if Steve Jobs spied on people with webcams through macbooks. He'd panic and then create a webcam 5x bigger, call it the iBig, and SNL would actually have material for about a week. | ||
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SARS
United States25 Posts
wait, that's iPad.. | ||
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thompzn
Sweden42 Posts
If it were illegal then what does the school have to do with it shouldn't the police handle it? How the hell can a school discipline someone for something done at home? | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
On February 20 2010 03:19 SARS wrote: He should also create an iPod Touch 5x bigger, and call it iTod.. wait, that's iPad.. Yeah, because why the heck would you buy a 50" tv when you can paste 4 25" tvs together? You can even watch 4 different channels with that setup! | ||
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Pika Chu
Romania2510 Posts
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
On February 19 2010 22:17 KwarK wrote: I can't imagine how someone didn't stop and point out how retarded this idea is. It's possible for one guy to get so caught up in his own enthusiasm he just doesn't notice he's forgotten something really important but the first time he told anyone else his plan to spy on children they should have pointed out to him the flaw. Maybe they are all pedos. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On February 19 2010 19:06 Jayve wrote: There's a simpler way to deal with it than uninstalling drivers. Solution: Sticker --> Ontop of webcam Caveman approach works everytime. lol I do this every time I get a new cpu/laptop no matter what. I never use it anyways. | ||
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Danzepol
United States211 Posts
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cgrinker
United States3824 Posts
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Gedrah
465 Posts
On February 19 2010 13:53 sRapers_ValkS wrote: just to clear it up; the school did not buy the laptops for us, they got a grant from apple. and regardless of what they have the "right" to do, it still makes my skin crawl that every time i open up that computer there could be someone watching me. Make a statement, smash it on the pavement in front of the school with a sledge hammer like the guy did when he bought O.J. Simpson's Heisman Trophy.  | ||
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Gedrah
465 Posts
On February 19 2010 22:37 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: Also, the school wasn't constantly monitoring him, it was just one or two pictures. Okay, Crazazyasian1337, let me ask you a question. If I snuck a camera into your home and remotely took a few photos of your child without permission, if it was only a few, well then that'd be okay, right? As long as it was just to keep the laptop safe? Oh by the way, I see that box of Havanas on the living room table. Say hello to the feds for me. ... | ||
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Achromic
773 Posts
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Gedrah
465 Posts
technically the school has the right to anything that is on the computer and has the right to confiscate or use the computer because of these forms we signed in the beginning of the year. and since the cameras are built in, some people are claiming they have a right to use the cameras remotely You should go to wikipedia and read about Yellow Dog Contracts. Their modern equivalent is using some form of duress to get people to sign something they would never sign, to give up rights no sane person would give up. This is commonly done via end-user license agreements which developers like to pretend function as signatures. But in this case, your entire school gets a laptop. The curriculum depends on this laptop. Presumably this is a public school, so you have to go here. Furthermore, the simple social consequences of refusing to sign the document are HUGE. Within a school district, all the parents that are on the dick of the district--the PTA parents who holler "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" and haven't done much with the constitution except wipe their asses--do their best to make themselves a loud and obnoxious presence in every way possible. Like most people who think they're right about something, these people have no qualms about denying the will of a large number of other people. After all, they're right! My point is, just because they coerce you into signing something doesn't mean they can do whatever the fuck they want. Even if you signed a paper saying they could. Duress is at play if your failure to sign the document would negatively impact the quality of your education or your chances at social ingratiation. | ||
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Gnosis
Scotland912 Posts
On February 20 2010 02:47 andrewlt wrote: I think they did sign consent forms. It's just that there is no consent form in the world that would make child pornography legal. Not to mention that if the kid shares his bedroom with somebody else or puts the laptop in his parents' bedroom or anywhere else in the house, the school can spy on people who did not sign the consent forms. Not to mention that infants (what the law calls minors) can get out of any contracts they sign, unless the court determines that they are abusing the hell out of that privilege. Right, and as the other poster(s?) have pointed out, certain rights can't be waived, no matter what's signed. | ||
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Gedrah
465 Posts
The school wants to have a particular power over you that the law does not provide them. They offer you a contract under duress, and you sign it. Regardless if this is legal or not, if you should take the laptop home they could still then take your picture with it because the hardware provides them that capability. They should not legally possess that capability, but through duress and de facto practices they give themselves illegal power to take your photo and used that power to gain knowledge of the student's actions illegally. The waiver you signed does not change this! Someone's going to fucking captial-p Prison! | ||
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wishbones
Canada2600 Posts
thats just dumb.. i wud seriously jerk off right in front of my laptop asap. jizz on their comp, say heres ur piece of shit comp back, now fuck urself! + Show Spoiler [Dont look Anger Rage!] + i want to smash a few laptops plz. let me break the fucking thing ill fucking kill the cocksucker who did this. | ||
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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
This is illegal on every level...who the fuck thought of this? Do they have no knowledge of law, human rights, the constitution, or common sense? Seriously who thought or heard of this plan and was like "Oh my, this is a fantastic idea, let's start right away! There can't possibly be any legal risk by filming hundreds of students in their homes! As someone above said wow 1984 I thought that was required reading in high school? The staff/administration/students should know this. | ||
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
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Archaic
United States4024 Posts
On February 19 2010 12:55 Chen wrote: the wikipedia article says there is reason to believe that some people actually did that. good god this is fucked up, the school better get whats coming to them "many of the images captured and intercepted may consist of minors and their parents or friends in compromising or embarrassing positions" including "various stages of undress". Oh, those high school boys... and those old high school administrators... Wait, ughhh. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
or am I wrong about this? it doesn't seem to be very clear. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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Gedrah
465 Posts
Despite that they were not legally permitted to take those photos, they MIGHT be able to get away with punishing the student at school, having learned that he was smoking marijuana. I don't know how that works or what the school's power is on that matter, as far as punishing a student that they know to have smoked pot, but I know that if you beat someone up on your way to or from school, the school is legally allowed to punish and\or suspend\expel you for it, because it's been held up in court that you're somehow the school's responsibility and under its jurisdiction (schools have jurisdiction?) at those times. The laptop wasn't reported as stolen, per se, but they have an insurance policy in place that the kids have to buy else they aren't allowed to take the laptop off campus. He took it with him anyway and this somehow made them believe it was stolen. However, the principal's posting did state that they use the photos for the SOLE PURPOSE and NO OTHER REASON than to recover wayward laptops. Upon seeing that the student to whom it was assigned had it, they could perhaps punish him for taking it without permission, but they have no business looking at, studying, or drawing conclusions or levying punishments based on ANYTHING else in the image, according to the posting he made. I don't doubt that personnel who review candid photos like this (and changing rooms, medical lobbies, etc) chuckle and swear and jerk off and generally have a good old time looking at photos they had no right to ever see. Such people have black sewage for blood and I hope they get crabs. | ||
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AlienAlias
United States324 Posts
On February 20 2010 08:37 HazMat wrote: So what would happen to the school district if they lost the law-suit? (which they will) Would it get closed down and the kids who lived in the district had to go to some other one? Why would the school district be closed down? O.o | ||
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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
On February 20 2010 09:36 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: lol, It won't be closed down. I'm not actually sure what is going on, but it won't be anything crazy like that. Probably just some money paid somewhere. I'm guessing a lot of people will be fired? | ||
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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
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MamiyaOtaru
United States1687 Posts
On February 20 2010 07:59 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: the software on the computer is designed so that if a computer is reported as stolen, it takes 2 pictures and sends it to the school when the computer is turned on. One picture of what is on the screen at the time and one from the webcam to see who is using the computer and again, this is only done when a computer is lost or stolen. the kid who got the picture taken of him hadn't paid for the insurance on the laptop, and therefore wasn't allowed to leave school with it, which he did anyway. Thus, the school thought that it was stolen and activated the camera, and the kid just happened to be doing something wrong in front of the camera at the time, and was thus disciplined for it. If what he did wrong (that the pic provided evidence of) is taking the laptop out of school when he hadn't paid the insurance, then the school is not in the wrong at all. EDIT if that's the case they should say so and end the shitstorm | ||
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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
yet another update on the situation | ||
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Fen
Australia1848 Posts
The laptop WAS stolen. The kid who took it did not have permission to do so. The laptop then automatically took a picture, rather than being controlled by someone else. The activity that the kid was being punished for is most likely the taking home of school properety. Therefore the school has a strong defence. Still 3. Were students and families explicitly told about the laptop security system? * No. There was no formal notice given to students or their families. The functionality and intended use of the security feature should have been communicated clearly to students and families. Thats going to cause them some troubles. | ||
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Sulli
Canada236 Posts
And Gedrah, are you an English major or something like that? Your posts read like essays. | ||
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SanguineToss
Canada815 Posts
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Craton
United States17262 Posts
but I know that if you beat someone up on your way to or from school There has to be some tie to the school, like waiting at a bus stop or using their transportation; it's not just carte blanche. | ||
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
And wtf. 1000 dollar laptop to let students borrow for free? 2620 purchased? 262000 dollars spent total? WTF ARE WE DOING WITH OUT TAX MONEY?!?!?! HOLY SHIT. THIS IDEA IS DUMB, STUPID, INVASION OF PRIVACY, AND A BIG WASTE OF MONEY! NO WONDER WHY AMERICA IS IN A DEPRESSION AND HAS A HARD TIME GETTING OUT OF IT! I mean I just got a brand new laptop with pretty nice hardware and it only costed me 600 dollars after buying it off about 200 dollars off. I want to spend 1000 dollars on a laptop. Then I might be able to buy a laptop with the same hardware capabilities but with a graphics card instead of an itegrated one. -_- | ||
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KurtistheTurtle
United States1966 Posts
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WhuazGoodJaggah
Lesotho777 Posts
On February 20 2010 19:17 MuffinDude wrote: Dude. Hell no. Shut the school down. And wtf. 1000 dollar laptop to let students borrow for free? 2620 purchased? 262000 dollars spent total? WTF ARE WE DOING WITH OUT TAX MONEY?!?!?! HOLY SHIT. THIS IDEA IS DUMB, STUPID, INVASION OF PRIVACY, AND A BIG WASTE OF MONEY! NO WONDER WHY AMERICA IS IN A DEPRESSION AND HAS A HARD TIME GETTING OUT OF IT! I mean I just got a brand new laptop with pretty nice hardware and it only costed me 600 dollars after buying it off about 200 dollars off. I want to spend 1000 dollars on a laptop. Then I might be able to buy a laptop with the same hardware capabilities but with a graphics card instead of an itegrated one. -_- yeah, spending 1000$ on a kids education is clearly the reason why you are in a depression. get some brain, ok? | ||
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Queequeg
Germany263 Posts
On February 20 2010 19:17 MuffinDude wrote: And wtf. 1000 dollar laptop to let students borrow for free? 2620 purchased? 262000 dollars spent total? For maths this advanced you should have used your brand new laptop. It's really hard to multiply by 1000. | ||
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Suc
Australia1569 Posts
On February 20 2010 19:17 MuffinDude wrote:And wtf. 1000 dollar laptop to let students borrow for free? 2620 purchased? 262000 dollars $2,620,000 and yeah, that is a lot for some school to use | ||
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
On February 20 2010 20:33 Queequeg wrote: For maths this advanced you should have used your brand new laptop. It's really hard to multiply by 1000. Whoops, I somehow thought that laptops costed 100. I guess doing math at 3 am is not easy. On February 20 2010 20:05 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote: yeah, spending 1000$ on a kids education is clearly the reason why you are in a depression. get some brain, ok? Dude, 1000 per laptop, I did my math incorrectly, but 2620000 dollars on one school. With 1000 dollars, you can get really nice laptops, which is completely unnecessary for a good education, just get them like a $500 laptops and cut costs by half. Its little things like these that adds up to the huge debt that America has right now. You're an idiot for thinking that kids need $1000 laptops for education when $500 laptop is good enough. | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On February 19 2010 22:48 Tomer wrote: QFT I hope the people responsible from the schools get a hardcore banhammer coming down on them! Fourth. Fourth Amendment. It really bugs me that no one pointed that out in the first four or five pages. They aren't inhibiting their ability to protest, or speak freely, etc, they're invading privacy, which is the fourth amendment. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." On February 21 2010 05:46 MuffinDude wrote: Whoops, I somehow thought that laptops costed 100. I guess doing math at 3 am is not easy. Dude, 1000 per laptop, I did my math incorrectly, but 2620000 dollars on one school. With 1000 dollars, you can get really nice laptops, which is completely unnecessary for a good education, just get them like a $500 laptops and cut costs by half. Its little things like these that adds up to the huge debt that America has right now. You're an idiot for thinking that kids need $1000 laptops for education when $500 laptop is good enough. What the fuck would anyone NEED a laptop in high school for? The material is so ridiculously easy anyway. You can literally sleep in all of your classes and get 3.5 at least (I know this, because I did it). You hardly even have to take notes, the only thing laptops will get used for in high school is browsing facebook and stuff. In college, the majority of kids I've seen with laptops are not using them to take notes, but rather to browse the internet while the prof speaks. Throw in that these schools are buying insanely overpriced Macbooks? Wtf? Link Holy shit, I just saved a single school over a million dollars, like you suggested. There is absolutely NO need for $1000 laptops, it's a complete misallocation of resources. Anyone defending the school is a tard. | ||
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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
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SARS
United States25 Posts
I believe school should be able to punish the kid for STEALING the laptop, but they should not be able to punish him for anything else. And $1,000 for a laptop, rly? a laptop for highschool education, should be like a netbook that's about $200~$300, what are they going to do with the laptop? edit videos and fold proteins to find cure for cancer? | ||
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Gedrah
465 Posts
On February 20 2010 16:30 Sulli wrote: Crazazyasian1337, you should edit your opening post and include the update. If the new information is true, then it does indeed change things. And Gedrah, are you an English major or something like that? Your posts read like essays. Once upon a time. :O | ||
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Craton
United States17262 Posts
On February 21 2010 07:32 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: the school got the laptops through a grant with apple There's always these little behind-the-scenes deals you don't know about -- my school distract had IP phones in every room and fully-equipped switch closets due to a partnership with CISCO and Comcast. The rub, of course, was they basically got/get to operate unregulated in my area. | ||
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Gedrah
465 Posts
On February 21 2010 07:32 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: the school got the laptops through a grant with apple Schools have been doing this since I was in 6th grade. The apple computers they used to "teach" us were piece of shit PowerPC and Performas and using them didn't prepare us in the slightest for using real computers out in the real world where a Mac isn't thought of us much else than a toy, regardless of the truth of the matter of how useful they are. For example, if something goes wrong on a PC, you troubleshoot it and call someone when you aren't sure you can fix it. If something goes wrong on a Mac, as we were taught, you call someone, period. Very different philosophy right there. In either case your school got soaked which means we all got soaked. | ||
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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
update to the whole situation. apparently hundreds of pictures were taken O.o | ||
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Gnosis
Scotland912 Posts
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maxor
England59 Posts
If i signed a piece of paper saying it was ok to murder me it would still be murder and illegal although not quite the same level the legal position is the same. Sue them to hell and back as a group then have the people in the pictures sue them further for what ever they like, if there are images of under age nakeness on their data bases then it will be prison time for all concerned really how naive can a school board be. | ||
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XeliN
United Kingdom1755 Posts
He told me he hid the webcam inside a lever arch file on a shelf with it capturing through one of the large circular hole in the file, made me laugh although the idea of stealing from a childs charity is quite deplorable. | ||
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seRapH
United States9776 Posts
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Lysis
United States147 Posts
Reading the background of the case on wiki, it seems like no one was notified of the software on the computers, and the tech-support employed by the school praised the software numerous times (though in hindsight he seems like a total pedo). And with a Macbook it's near impossible to remove any unwanted software, especially if you don't know about it. I wonder if anyone decided to just remove the hard drive and get a new one, lol | ||
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
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Crazazyasian1337
United States362 Posts
On April 19 2010 03:10 semantics wrote: Adn this is why my webcam always points to the ceiling when not in use it's very easy to hijack a webcam its a built in laptop webcam... wouldn't be very feasible to always have your monitor facing upwards like that | ||
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HeadhunteR
Argentina1258 Posts
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SilentCrono
United States1420 Posts
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milo
116 Posts
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Flames
United States105 Posts
On April 19 2010 04:06 Crazazyasian1337 wrote: its a built in laptop webcam... wouldn't be very feasible to always have your monitor facing upwards like that Just put a piece of paper taped over the lens. I know that it's possible to hijack a webcam, but that shouldn't be a reason to not get a laptop with a built in one. On topic....there's no way the school can win this lawsuit. That's completely ridiculous, they will probably lose because they didn't fully inform the families. I'm expecting a out of court settlement or a court order to specify what the school intends to do with the laptops. EDIT: Oh snap, I didn't know the kid actually stole it. Huh, school has a better chance now... | ||
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