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On January 19 2010 06:06 Maenander wrote:
To be honest that sounds like a healthy development. In a stable democracy, one party shouldn't be in charge for over 20 years. It´s good when the opposition comes to power once in a while, especially in what are essentially 2-party-systems. Both sides represent one part of the population each, and there needs to be some balance. As long as both sides are moderate, I don´t see a problem here.
Of course the times under Pinochet were horrible, and should never ever be allowed to happen again. But there are several examples of post-dictatorial party remnants, who are now an integral part of a democracy, like the left-wing party here in germany, or the conservative PP in spain.
Its not one party, its a political block formed by 3 parties, the last 2 presidents were socialists, the actual candidate was from the christian democracy party.
You know? i am not actually scared of the government or anything else, im pretty sure that this will be politically good at long term, and the right wing will never be again in the government after this for a long long time, so in the end this could tourn into a good thing.
I am actually worried about 3 things:
1.- Privatization of the remaining minerals plus the 50% of CODELCO, the biggest cooper mine in the world, that now is property of the state and responsible of the 20% of the GDP Sold that is a lot of money in short term and a long poverty while spreading our legs to the US and some global companies.
2.- The enviroment. While the minning produces the public money, that goes into the services and into the people in the cities, we have a huge landscape full of natural resources such as water and eternal ice, many endogenic species and some of the best fruit and vegetables in the whole world. Go and buy chilean grape, chilean apples, chilean wine in your local market, and you will know what i am talking about. With the minning comes the money to the city and the destruction for the country. I have seen it here many times, but we still have many clean places, that we are risking. Mono-cultive, minning and fish farms, pork farms, chicken farms. The right wing will try to make more industry development at any price, and that isnt something where you can walk back if you want. You pollute a river and kill the whole valley.
3.- The streets. They have been telling the people for years that main the problem is the crime. That we need more jails, and harder laws. That we need more patrolling, more control and more security. In 10 years the half of the parks that use to be open, they look like a jail. And that is going further now.
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well, a party which is called christian isnt a good thing
I wonder when the fuck are we (the whole world) remove the religion from the politics.
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On January 19 2010 07:16 Vernom wrote:
well, a party which is called christian isnt a good thing
I wonder when the fuck are we (the whole world) remove the religion from the politics.
Chile's Christian Democrat party has very little Christian left in it.
There is another party in Chilean politics which is quite identified with Christianity, however. It's the Union Democrata Independiente (UDI), and they're the partners of Renovacion Nacional in the right-wing Coalicion por el Cambio. Although I can't forgive their religious inclinations, the party is otherwise fine.
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Actually, the UDI is thightly related to the opus dei
edit: oh yes, and they won. Thats why this sucks.
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On January 18 2010 15:16 Saturnize wrote:
Is there a country in latin america that isn't run by drug lords?
ban plz.....
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For you own sake you better hope your new guy doesn't have any ideas about taxing your bananas :D
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On January 19 2010 07:35 coltrane wrote:
Actually, the UDI is thightly related to the opus dei
edit: oh yes, and they won. Thats why this sucks.
seriously?
opus deis is the worst thing ever, gl to chile, you need that
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On January 18 2010 15:16 Saturnize wrote:
Is there a country in latin america that isn't run by drug lords?
well, usa is run by armament lords.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/18/world/americas/18chile.html?ref=americas
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8464136.stm
a couple of english articles, nothing outstanding though...
is funny to see ppl from US talking about democracy when they live in a country where some people's votes worth more than other people's vote, and where a candidate with more votes lost to other with less (Bush anyone?), not talking about war and dictatorships they have contructed (Saddam for ex).
Im kinda bored seeing ppl talking that know nothing about.
I considered myself a freethinker, so i have my reserves (nothing big though) over Sebastian Piñera, but i trust our stability and hope for the best.
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conservative? does that mean fewer ling allins?
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+WTB money-spent-on-election-campain statistics
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On January 19 2010 07:02 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2010 06:46 Glaucus wrote:
lightman, Venezuelans disagree. So do neutral politician commentators in Europe. It's only the rich in Venezuela and the Americans that complain.
If you made 1200 millions during a military junta how are you not corrupt?
Also, the fact that his supporters try to gloss over the human rights violations or even claim the junta was great is very telling.
The fact that the military junta in Chile is demonized is telling as well. Honestly, it did great things, and terrible things. It was great in terms of development and preparing country for the future. It probably wasn't so great if you were one of the people who was assassinated or tortured by the regime. By the time I had the ability to reason (7 years or so), Chile was already in a democracy, so I probably don't know the bad parts of the military government as well as the good ones. Either way, the military government ended 20 years ago. I was just trying to teach non-chilean TL readers a little Chilean history. Augusto Pinochet is dead, the chilean army is a thoroughly professional and non-political force nowadays, and the military regime is in the past now. I just want it to be remembered fairly, with all its flaws and successes. I'm not intimately familiar with Venezuela, but if the poor people there don't complain, it's because they don't know any better. Their future is being crushed and they're having food shortages. I voted for Piñera, because I know he's personally and intellectually very capable. He's surrounded himself with over 2,000 young professionals in the grupos Tantauco in order to elaborate a good government plan. The faults in the Concertacion's governments have only grown worse with the years, and their presidential candidate is intellectually limited, much like G.W. Bush was. We'll have to wait and see how well Piñera does, but in all honesty, there's not a whole lot of people I'd rather have in government than him.
1- I love how your little bit of chilean history sounds like objetive when in fact is way more biased than this threads op. I dont really care that much about the military government since I dont think things could have been different. However, dodging how Pinochet and partners made a huge amount of money (yeah i mean 17 million dol http://www.lanacion.cl/prontus_noticias/site/artic/20050415/pags/20050415104133.html) for a guy that gets paid as president is like a lot no¿) with fraud and ilicit business is quite telling about you. Not even gonna talk about Allendes government because i could put you on serious trouble there.
2- I also love how you intentionally dodge all the bad facts about Piñera, i mean he is very smart thats for sure, but his main ability is to get rich himself, not to make better jobs or companies.
Just answer:
-what do you think about Piñeras half fraud using private information on stocks buying¿
-what do you think about getting legal cover from the military government when accused of fraud¿
These are 100% facts about Piñera btw. Proof from wiki
+ Show Spoiler +Businesses
Piñera owns 100% of Chilevisión, a terrestrial television channel broadcasting nationwide; 27% of LAN Airlines (LAN), 13% of Colo-Colo,[6] a football (soccer) club; and holds significant stock positions in companies such as Quiñenco, Enersis, and Soquimich.
Piñera is a self-made billionaire with an estimated fortune of US$1 billion as of March 2009 according to Forbes magazine.[7] His wealth is attributed in great part to his involvement in the introduction of credit cards to Chile in the late 1970s and his subsequent investments, mainly in LAN Airlines stock. Piñera acquired shares of the formerly state-owned company from Scandinavian Airlines in 1994, as part of a joint venture with the Cueto family.[7][8]
In 1982 an arrest warrant was issued against Piñera. He was accused of violating the Banking Law during his time as general manager of the Bank of Talca. Piñera spent 24 days in hiding, while his lawyers appealed the order. A writ of habeas corpus was first rejected by the Appeals Court, but then approved by the Supreme Court, acquitting Piñera.[9]
In July 2007 Piñera was fined approximately US$680,000 by Chile's securities regulator (SVS) for not withdrawing a purchase order after he received privileged information (an infraction very similar to insider trading) of LAN Airlines stock in mid-2006.[10] Piñera denied any wrongdoing, and argued that the whole process was part of a political attack to damage his image. He did not appeal arguing that the court process could take years and interfere with his intention to run again for president in late 2009. Later that month he resigned from the boards of LAN and Quintec.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastián_Piñera
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So sad people, i really think you need more history lessons.
Or just read another newspaper, or watch another channel, hopefully not controlled by the future goverment....
Oh i forgot, there isn't.
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On January 19 2010 08:42 Malongo wrote:
Just answer:
-what do you think about Piñeras half fraud using private information on stocks buying¿
-what do you think about getting legal cover from the military government when accused of fraud¿
- I think he was a fool to try that, because it was an unnecessary risk and he didn't really need to pull that stunt, particularly when he knows that the Concertacion would give him hell about it- the persecution of Lavin between 1999 (when he almost won the presidency) and 2005 for the next elections was disgusting, and I'm frankly surprised Piñera didn't get something of the kind for this.
- What the hell do I care if the military government endorses him? Maybe they thought he was honestly innocent. Maybe they had ulterior motives for doing so. Either way, I don't see what's the big deal about this. You make it sound like the guy's a freaking drug lord, when he's mostly OK.
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On January 19 2010 08:16 Vernom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2010 07:35 coltrane wrote:
Actually, the UDI is thightly related to the opus dei
edit: oh yes, and they won. Thats why this sucks. seriously? opus deis is the worst thing ever, gl to chile, you need that
Some people in UDI have close ties to Opus Dei. Others couldn't care less for them. It's a big party, so it's bound to be heterogenous- but the party's official stance on many issues is strongly influenced by religion (contraception methods, abortion, and others I can't think of at this hour in the morning). UDI is also a party that identifies itself strongly with the poorest and neediest, and it's the fastest-growing and biggest political party in Chile.
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So, you know what is the meaning of demagogy?
all party leaders are opus dei. And are them, not the poorest and neediest who are voting our laws.
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On January 19 2010 23:31 coltrane wrote:
So, you know what is the meaning of demagogy?
all party leaders are opus dei. And are them, not the poorest and neediest who are voting our laws.
Clearly, you don't know UDI then. Because I do, and while some of them are in fact Opus Dei (most notably Lavin, the failed UDI presidential candidate for 1999 and 2005, and failed senatorial candidate for 2009), other important figures of UDI couldn't be farther from being Opus Dei- Andrés Chadwick, Jovino Novoa and Evelyn Matthei, I can vouch for in that sense. I don't know any other UDI leaders besides Lavin who are openly Opus Dei. Maybe you do?
I don't think so.
I know a younger, rising figure in UDI (José Antonio Kast)- who I wouldn't consider to be a party leader- happens to be a religious nut and has ties to Opus Dei as well. But seriously, while the official party stance on some issues is influenced by Christian values, members who belong to the Opus Dei (party leaders or not) are in the minority.
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EPT
