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Today in my country a president election has concluded.
Piñera and the conservative/rich sector won.
We are so fucking screwed! The same sector that kill and made torture in the recent past will lead my country again.
Im so sad and worried. Piñera its a businessman, one of the richest people in Chile, and now the president. The productive sector, education, radio, tv, etc are in the hands of the richest people, and besides the growing of our economy Chile its one of the most imbalanced countries in the world.
I hope something happened in the future, i hope my people ope their eyes, we need a true change.
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I'm sad to hear that 
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who cares anyone here :/ ?
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Most likely rigged the election....
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On January 18 2010 09:59 OsdeN wrote:
who cares anyone here :/ ?
I do. I'm interested in the political developments in Latin America as of late. There has been a swing to the left in large parts of the area. Except in Colombia and Chile it seems.
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Thats awful... there's not alot of information out there on the state of Chile right now though and I didn't know it was so bad for you guys.
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On January 18 2010 10:02 MetalMarine wrote:
Most likely rigged the election....
What a ridiculous thing to say
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On January 18 2010 10:02 MetalMarine wrote:
Most likely rigged the election....
Why bother with all that rigmarole and illegality when you can just vastly outspend your opponent on advertising and politcal advice. The media is already in the hands of people who will benifit from you being in power, what more of an advantage do you need?
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You are screwed! Your president is gonna build a bunch of speedlings and kill everyone!
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On January 18 2010 09:51 No_eL wrote:
Today in my country a president election has concluded.
Piñera and the conservative/rich sector won.
We are so fucking screwed! The same sector that kill and made torture in the recent past will lead my country again.
Im so sad and worried. Piñera its a businessman, one of the richest people in Chile, and now the president. The productive sector, education, radio, tv, etc are in the hands of the richest people, and besides the growing of our economy Chile its one of the most imbalanced countries in the world.
I hope something happened in the future, i hope my people ope their eyes, we need a true change.
Sucks. I'm obliged to say that as a liberal. Sucks even more that the stupid Haiti thing is drowning out everything else that's happening in the world. Blarg.
Though I'm not exactly surprised that people would want to elect a conservative leader. I mean, 50 years of the same liberal presidents combined with an economic downturn probably led the masses to go for Pinera.
I really don't see a doomsday scenario at all, especially considering how your Congress is still split evenly.
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come to america
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while Im not chilean or in Chile, I do have many many chilean ones, and about 80% are happy about this.. and they were unhappy with the last president
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On January 18 2010 10:24 Mystlord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2010 09:51 No_eL wrote:
Today in my country a president election has concluded.
Piñera and the conservative/rich sector won.
We are so fucking screwed! The same sector that kill and made torture in the recent past will lead my country again.
Im so sad and worried. Piñera its a businessman, one of the richest people in Chile, and now the president. The productive sector, education, radio, tv, etc are in the hands of the richest people, and besides the growing of our economy Chile its one of the most imbalanced countries in the world.
I hope something happened in the future, i hope my people ope their eyes, we need a true change. Sucks. I'm obliged to say that as a liberal. Sucks even more that the stupid Haiti thing is drowning out everything else that's happening in the world. Blarg.
Though I'm not exactly surprised that people would want to elect a conservative leader. I mean, 50 years of the same liberal presidents combined with an economic downturn probably led the masses to go for Pinera.
I really don't see a doomsday scenario at all, especially considering how your Congress is still split evenly.
I dont understand that statement at all. As for the liberal-conservative discussion im not really sure where Piñera belongs. What i really dont like about this guy is that his fortune is about 1200 million dollars and he is still looking for more power. He claims to be an entrepreneur that started from practically 0 and massed his fortune by hard work but everyone in Chile knows he was involved with the militar government and abused the late 80s before the return to democracy to buy state companies at a ridiculous low price. As for the entrepreneur claim he is for sure not one: he owns several companies but he has started very few in reality. He has been accused for abusing the use of privileged information to invest in a company before the price raise and multed for that, he has been caught spying against other politicians and got banned from politics some years, he is by far one of the less reliable guys to put in charge of a country.
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On January 18 2010 10:24 Mystlord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2010 09:51 No_eL wrote:
Today in my country a president election has concluded.
Piñera and the conservative/rich sector won.
We are so fucking screwed! The same sector that kill and made torture in the recent past will lead my country again.
Im so sad and worried. Piñera its a businessman, one of the richest people in Chile, and now the president. The productive sector, education, radio, tv, etc are in the hands of the richest people, and besides the growing of our economy Chile its one of the most imbalanced countries in the world.
I hope something happened in the future, i hope my people ope their eyes, we need a true change. Sucks. I'm obliged to say that as a liberal. Sucks even more that the stupid Haiti thing is drowning out everything else that's happening in the world. Blarg. Though I'm not exactly surprised that people would want to elect a conservative leader. I mean, 50 years of the same liberal presidents combined with an economic downturn probably led the masses to go for Pinera. I really don't see a doomsday scenario at all, especially considering how your Congress is still split evenly.
Chile are very well in economic terms, the global economic crisis nearly dont reach our country the two last years. Indeed, we are an example in the region for our good shape after the global drowning... we have inequality, but our arks are full of money now. Our problem its the lack of memory and the pandemic stupidity because the TV and press mental control, we are like a little USA.
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i see O.O thats crazy, im gonna ask them why they did not like her
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On January 18 2010 10:52 mAKiTO wrote:
while Im not chilean or in Chile, I do have many many chilean ones, and about 80% are happy about this.. and they were unhappy with the last president
The last president (Michelle Bachelet) was the most popular president in the actual history, she reached more than 70% percent of approvation!. Maybe you have only friends in the aristocratic sector, idk.
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Hey No_eL you can always move if you hate it that bad, I'm sure there's other countries out there you'd like a lot more then Chile.
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This is why politics should not mix with religion.
Look at what has happened to America. Not one single fucking atheist in the history of presidency.
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none of my friends are on, so can someone explain to me what was so great about her? what has she done for chile that everyone approves so much?
excuse my ignorance ._.
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On January 18 2010 11:06 Whiplash wrote:
Hey No_eL you can always move if you hate it that bad, I'm sure there's other countries out there you'd like a lot more then Chile.
fat american hamburger
shtu the fuck up
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On January 18 2010 11:14 mAKiTO wrote:
none of my friends are on, so can someone explain to me what was so great about her? what has she done for chile that everyone approves so much?
excuse my ignorance ._.
Nothing great, but no mistakes, was the first women being chilean president, and made a great job mainting a good economy in the middle of a global economic crisis.
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Chilean ppl is really stupid... yeah they only want a "new face" and they dont see that actually they are choosing the same guys that were happy with Pinochet.
Ugh when I think on our next goverment with people of the UDI and RN... im going to puke brb
They dont realize that our country is in a really good shape thanks to our last goverments... they just want a "new face" ... a guy got like 23% and he was independent just cus he was "new".
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so why did he get elected? whats going on here?
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if you have such a fucking problem with it and your gonna sit here and complain, fucking kill him
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On January 18 2010 11:35 StarsPride wrote:
if you have such a fucking problem with it and your gonna sit here and complain, fucking kill him
Lol, best solution so far.
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On January 18 2010 11:31 mAKiTO wrote:
so why did he get elected? whats going on here?
Piñera just invested a lot of money and people in Chile is retarded enough to buy his movie made image. Since the other guy is not really reliable either because he was president like 10 years ago and made a lot of stupid moves the election turned into a 50/50 with a lot of people like me that really dont care. Piñera wins with like 51.5% of the votes. Thats like 200.000 people difference in a 6.900.000 universe. Official page:
http://www.elecciones.gov.cl/Sitio2009/index.html
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thats sucks ._.
is there such thing as a re election in chile? like in Colombia there wasnt but Uribes popularity was so huge they did a referendum and he was re elected.
Was that ever talked in Chile regarding Bachelet?
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On January 18 2010 09:51 No_eL wrote:
Today in my country a president election has concluded.
Piñera and the conservative/rich sector won.
We are so fucking screwed! The same sector that kill and made torture in the recent past will lead my country again.
Im so sad and worried. Piñera its a businessman, one of the richest people in Chile, and now the president. The productive sector, education, radio, tv, etc are in the hands of the richest people, and besides the growing of our economy Chile its one of the most imbalanced countries in the world.
I hope something happened in the future, i hope my people ope their eyes, we need a true change.
Ok, to clarify and de-dramatize the situation, chilean politics is like this:
As in alot of political system we will say that there a right, a left and a center.
Years ago, a dictator had the power and of course did horrible things, this guy coming from the military was from the right side (extreme right)
now there have been something like 20 years of left governament, each one of those getting closer to center political views as time passed.
In the more modern elections, the last round took place between this slightly left polititians and the slightly right politicians.
this year is no diferent, the only diference is that the other dude (the one from the right side) won.
So, i can't aggre with puting the modern right politicians in the same basket as dictator pinochet because they are in a comon (but very large) sector. Keep in mind that right governement are nothing new, US has a political system dominated by right ideology and they don't go around torturing peope (well... they still kinda...), China is dominated by a left ideology and are alot closer to this abusive society you're trying to paint here. Saying Piñera is in the same sector that the guy that tortured and killed people is as dumb as saying Frei, or Bachelet is the same as those like Mao or Staline.
So, the rest about saying that the country needs a change is kinda true actually, Chile's financial stability is dependent of copper's market value and there is very little efforts to diversificate economic sectors, education is very poor, and the country is in the last worldwide place of inecualitys between the richest and the poorest.
that being said, 20 years of left governements have done very little toward these isssues.
lastly, concerning the wealth of the guy is completly aberant, don't forget that his opponent in the last round is also a rich mofo, mostly getting his money from his family's legacy.
So yeah, not trying to start an argument about whose politic is the best, if that question had a simple answer, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have those elections. just don't go around saying stuff that are... basicaly...
+ Show Spoiler +
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Dominican Republic463 Posts
On January 18 2010 11:06 BraveNewWorld wrote:
This is why politics should not mix with religion.
Look at what has happened to America. Not one single fucking atheist in the history of presidency.
You mean no public atheist, im sure.
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On January 18 2010 11:02 No_eL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2010 10:52 mAKiTO wrote:
while Im not chilean or in Chile, I do have many many chilean ones, and about 80% are happy about this.. and they were unhappy with the last president The last president (Michelle Bachelet) was the most popular president in the actual history, she reached more than 70% percent of approvation!. Maybe you have only friends in the aristocratic sector, idk.
Does that mean something in Chile? In U.S. almost every President reaches 70%+ approval rating at some time. Bush's approval ratings reached 90% at one point and he had only 25% approval when he left office
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On January 18 2010 12:07 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2010 11:02 No_eL wrote:On January 18 2010 10:52 mAKiTO wrote:
while Im not chilean or in Chile, I do have many many chilean ones, and about 80% are happy about this.. and they were unhappy with the last president The last president (Michelle Bachelet) was the most popular president in the actual history, she reached more than 70% percent of approvation!. Maybe you have only friends in the aristocratic sector, idk. Does that mean something in Chile? In U.S. almost every President reaches 70%+ approval rating at some time. Bush's approval ratings reached 90% at one point and he had only 25% approval when he left office
I dont really know, but she was like never under 40% and she got 80% 2 months before leaving.
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On January 18 2010 12:00 SwaY- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2010 11:06 BraveNewWorld wrote:
This is why politics should not mix with religion.
Look at what has happened to America. Not one single fucking atheist in the history of presidency. You mean no public atheist, im sure.
Our founding fathers were atheist.
OK, so maybe not atheist, but they did not like Christianity in general.
Having said that... yeah, there's no way our Congress believes in the shit they cloak themselves in.
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In such a serious thread i laughed a billion times
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Don't mean to be an asshole, but Chile is one of the most decent places in Latin America, so i don't quite understand why so many chileans complain about the country (i know a few, plus my girlfriend is from there) when most of the rest of us have to live in such crappy countries.
Crappy education?, join the club, high inequiality rates?, welcome to Latin America, but if you look at the big picture you can see a pretty decent economy, not so high unemployment and 17% poverty rate (my city has over 50%, even when urban areas are supposed to be better) high human development rates anda a murder rate similar to those found in Western Europe.
By no means i'm suggesting that anyone should just shut up and be perfectly happy with everything, but at least keep mind that you weren't born a few thousand miles to the north, in the drugs capital of the world with a highest murder rate than Iraq.
PD: Chile is not going back to something even remotely similar to Pinochet's times just because you choose the right wing candidate... Wtf... One of the most solid and liberal democracies (for Latin America standards) can't go to hell that easy, people just love to be alarmist.
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well, chile is officialy on sale...
On January 18 2010 13:52 CrimsonLotus wrote:
Don't mean to be an asshole, but Chile is one of the most decent places in Latin America, so i don't quite understand why so many chileans complain about the country (i know a few, plus my girlfriend is from there) when most of the rest of us have to live in such crappy countries.
Crappy education?, join the club, high inequiality rates?, welcome to Latin America, but if you look at the big picture you can see a pretty decent economy, not so high unemployment and 17% poverty rate (my city has over 50%, even when urban areas are supposed to be better) high human development rates anda a murder rate similar to those found in Western Europe.
By no means i'm suggesting that anyone should just shut up and be perfectly happy with everything, but at least keep mind that you weren't born a few thousand miles to the north, in the drugs capital of the world with a highest murder rate than Iraq.
PD: Chile is not going back to something even remotely similar to Pinochet's times just because you choose the right wing candidate... Wtf... One of the most solid and liberal democracies (for Latin America standards) can't go to hell that easy, people just love to be alarmist.
wow is really cool to see that over there you have such a nice opinion of chile... makes me feel a little bit better...
On January 18 2010 11:35 StarsPride wrote:
if you have such a fucking problem with it and your gonna sit here and complain, fucking kill him
im planning a safe way to do it..
+ Show Spoiler + well guys... not everything is so black in our near future, we are going to win the WORLD CUP! thats not so bad
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On January 18 2010 13:52 CrimsonLotus wrote:
Don't mean to be an asshole, but Chile is one of the most decent places in Latin America, so i don't quite understand why so many chileans complain about the country (i know a few, plus my girlfriend is from there) when most of the rest of us have to live in such crappy countries.
Crappy education?, join the club, high inequiality rates?, welcome to Latin America, but if you look at the big picture you can see a pretty decent economy, not so high unemployment and 17% poverty rate (my city has over 50%, even when urban areas are supposed to be better) high human development rates anda a murder rate similar to those found in Western Europe.
By no means i'm suggesting that anyone should just shut up and be perfectly happy with everything, but at least keep mind that you weren't born a few thousand miles to the north, in the drugs capital of the world with a highest murder rate than Iraq.
PD: Chile is not going back to something even remotely similar to Pinochet's times just because you choose the right wing candidate... Wtf... One of the most solid and liberal democracies (for Latin America standards) can't go to hell that easy, people just love to be alarmist.
Ok, lets put it this way. For the last 20 years the democratic government had a major effort on positioning Chile into the global economy. And they succed.
By the other hand, inside here the things have been years after years of strugle in our parlament about social laws. The military dictatorship that we had from 1973 and 1990 changed our constitution and tied it up since 1980, so we need 2/3 of the parlament to change some "little things" as education, private property (that includes water, landscape and minerals), health, laboral laws, and our democratic system. Piñera represents the same people that made that laws, they are the same as they were before, they were the young faces of the dictatorship 20 years ago. And the people seems to forget it.
Our democratic system is tied up by something called the binominal system, that grants in most cases 2 representatives from one of the main sides each on each disctrict.
So, we always have a nearly balanced parlament, wich results in no real changes, basically while the progresism was in charge for the last 20 years we couldnt change much because the laws were rejected once and over again until it satisfies both sides, and that is politicians, not the people.
Thats Chile, just makeup. We didnt overcome poverty, we just lower the standards and give the lower classes credit and debts. We didnt overcame unemployment, we develope some obscure and un-understandable ways of explotation, based on private health care and private pensionate system (in changing those both aspects is where Bachelett did the most, and that is why she have a 80% of aproval, but we are years away to see the economical repercusion of that)
I would like rather be in any other country in latinamerica (not in colombia, nothing personal, i just think your president deals to much with the US army... i dont like that) than here, where we have credits and debts but no land, money or water.
Today Piñera won because they have been years working hard buying votes from the poor people. And that is sad, Piñera represents the people with the most, and get the voting from the people with the less. Is a modern way of feudalism or aristocracy. I am ashamed of my country and hate it today more than ever. I am so happy that i am going away soon, but i feel so wrong inside, i feel that i have to stay and fight this fucker away, fight him everywhere.
We should be talking about workers rights, abortion, education, culture and science, drug regulation. But the conservative won by talking of unemployment and crime... two things that we dont have a right to complain about when we look to other third world countries.
EDIT:@XenOsky- :I have some ideas too... plus i am leaving the country soon... so ![[image loading]](http://images.colonies.com/images/emoticons/emoticon_ninja.gif)
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On January 18 2010 14:58 skindzer wrote:
The op is way biased.
Nice opinion.
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its so sad people keep falling for these right wing nuts time and time again T_T
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Gotta say sagaz post its like the only neutral one ive read from a chilean here. Doubt anyone on TL cares about Chile tough.
I
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On January 18 2010 15:04 skindzer wrote:
Gotta say sagaz post its like the only neutral one ive read from a chilean here. Doubt anyone on TL cares about Chile tough.
I
i care :/
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nice to see so many chileans posting =)
ps: send me your iccup akas in a mp please!!
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Piñera winning is very good for Chile.
His supporters did participate on dicatorship, and that's where all good things during that regime came from, aka economical growth.
Unlike the rest of south america, Chile chose not to sell itself to lefist populist and corrupt movements, aka Venezuela and Argentina.
Op is a biased lefist with no idea about economics nor abour history.
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On January 18 2010 11:54 SagaZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2010 09:51 No_eL wrote:
Today in my country a president election has concluded.
Piñera and the conservative/rich sector won.
We are so fucking screwed! The same sector that kill and made torture in the recent past will lead my country again.
Im so sad and worried. Piñera its a businessman, one of the richest people in Chile, and now the president. The productive sector, education, radio, tv, etc are in the hands of the richest people, and besides the growing of our economy Chile its one of the most imbalanced countries in the world.
I hope something happened in the future, i hope my people ope their eyes, we need a true change. Ok, to clarify and de-dramatize the situation, chilean politics is like this: As in alot of political system we will say that there a right, a left and a center. Years ago, a dictator had the power and of course did horrible things, this guy coming from the military was from the right side (extreme right) now there have been something like 20 years of left governament, each one of those getting closer to center political views as time passed. In the more modern elections, the last round took place between this slightly left polititians and the slightly right politicians. this year is no diferent, the only diference is that the other dude (the one from the right side) won. So, i can't aggre with puting the modern right politicians in the same basket as dictator pinochet because they are in a comon (but very large) sector. Keep in mind that right governement are nothing new, US has a political system dominated by right ideology and they don't go around torturing peope (well... they still kinda...), China is dominated by a left ideology and are alot closer to this abusive society you're trying to paint here. Saying Piñera is in the same sector that the guy that tortured and killed people is as dumb as saying Frei, or Bachelet is the same as those like Mao or Staline. So, the rest about saying that the country needs a change is kinda true actually, Chile's financial stability is dependent of copper's market value and there is very little efforts to diversificate economic sectors, education is very poor, and the country is in the last worldwide place of inecualitys between the richest and the poorest. that being said, 20 years of left governements have done very little toward these isssues. lastly, concerning the wealth of the guy is completly aberant, don't forget that his opponent in the last round is also a rich mofo, mostly getting his money from his family's legacy. So yeah, not trying to start an argument about whose politic is the best, if that question had a simple answer, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have those elections. just don't go around saying stuff that are... basicaly... + Show Spoiler +
also this, most chileans like to put right wight politians as torturers or smth
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On January 18 2010 15:02 Malongo wrote:Nice opinion.
Theres not much to say about this, its like making a topic saying "OMG OBAMA GOT ELECTED AMERICA IS TURNING INTO COMMUNISM."
And before you start making assumptions, i didnt vote for him.
You people need to understand that the social inequalities in Chile or other latin american countries go way back than the good or bad governments of the past years and cant be turned over in one or two governments.
Altough i do understand that reading in the news something along the lines of "Billionaires Sebastian Piñera wins the election" (He DOES have that much money btw) makes it seem like a shady candidate, election or a banana country he has been involved in politics for a long time and we do have a solid enough constitution and "contraloria" (no fucking clue whats the english word for this) that will prevent any major corruption like "starting torturing people" or "giving it all to the high class".
Plus you still have a parliament its not like hes the fucking king.
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On January 18 2010 15:06 GoTuNk! wrote:
Piñera winning is very good for Chile.
His supporters did participate on dicatorship, and that's where all good things during that regime came from, aka economical growth.
Unlike the rest of south america, Chile chose not to sell itself to lefist populist and corrupt movements, aka Venezuela and Argentina.
Op is a biased lefist with no idea about economics nor abour history.
FFS dont you people understand that the past its not fucking black or white?
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To clarify about Piñera's being either liberal or conservative, he's more liberal.
In Chile there's basically 4 political movements:
One block is conformed by:
Right wing conservative, which is represented by UDI, and would be republicans in the USA.
Right wing liberals, which is represented by RN, where Piñera belongs and would be Democrats in the USA.
The other one is formed by:
Center-left catholic (they claim to be so) represented by DC (democracia cristiana) where Eduardo Frei belongs to (losing candidate)
And left-wing parties, represented by PS (partido socialista) PPD (partido por la democracia) and PC (partido Comunist)
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Is there a country in latin america that isn't run by drug lords?
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On January 18 2010 15:06 GoTuNk! wrote:
Piñera winning is very good for Chile.
His supporters did participate on dicatorship, and that's where all good things during that regime came from, aka economical growth.
Unlike the rest of south america, Chile chose not to sell itself to lefist populist and corrupt movements, aka Venezuela and Argentina.
Op is a biased lefist with no idea about economics nor abour history.
Cmon Gotunk, dont be bm, your biased too, all people with a politic fomation or a formed opinion its biased, its not a sin. But telling that i have no idea about economics nor history ?? cmon i have a huge academic formation than you(and im older too), and you know, just keep this kind of acusation in our forum, in our language.
His supporters and dictatorships are full of blood in their hands, theiy torturate my father for instance, and life its more important than economical growth, you must know that.
You are so selfish about your knowledge about other realities, but you need learn respect and humility before talk about other countries and cultures. Here in tl.net you can learn a lot about, but really you need to get down from your cloud, and be respectful with others opinions.
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On January 18 2010 15:16 Saturnize wrote:
Is there a country in latin america that isn't run by drug lords?
??? are you serious?? we are not for example!
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On January 18 2010 15:15 GoTuNk! wrote:
To clarify about Piñera's being either liberal or conservative, he's more liberal.
In Chile there's basically 4 political movements:
One block is conformed by:
Right wing conservative, which is represented by UDI, and would be republicans in the USA.
Right wing liberals, which is represented by RN, where Piñera belongs and would be Democrats in the USA.
The other one is formed by:
Center-left catholic (they claim to be so) represented by DC (democracia cristiana) where Eduardo Frei belongs to (losing candidate)
And left-wing parties, represented by PS (partido socialista) PPD (partido por la democracia) and PC (partido Comunist)
You are wrong. Our election system only accept 2 political blocks, even when we have more. We have way more than 4 political movements. You just named 5 or 6.
In one side you have both, UDI and RN representing the right wing conservative and neoliberals. Piñera represented both of them. (they are liberlals just in what concern the economic liberalism, fuck the society)
In the other you have DC, PPD and PS, representatives of a center left, like the european neo-socialism, progresive and liberals, they want changes in the social laws but they also want a economic liberalism. Frei was their candidate, he was a former president.
And then we have the Comunist Party, the Humanist Party and the other left wing groups that cant have any representatives unless they make pacts with the center left. And the independents. No one of here get ever elected for anything.
You are distorting truth, even when what you said was slightly correct, they way you said it is just a lie. That is how piraña won, controlling the truth
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On January 18 2010 15:19 No_eL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2010 15:16 Saturnize wrote:
Is there a country in latin america that isn't run by drug lords? ??? are you serious?? we are not for example!
actually, we are kind of now.
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On January 18 2010 15:04 nttea wrote:
its so sad people keep falling for these right wing nuts time and time again T_T
You're saying the left wing is always better? lol
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On January 18 2010 15:35 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2010 15:04 nttea wrote:
its so sad people keep falling for these right wing nuts time and time again T_T You're saying the left wing is always better? lol
Not always... but now it is for latinamerica.
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On January 18 2010 15:06 GoTuNk! wrote:
Piñera winning is very good for Chile.
His supporters did participate on dicatorship, and that's where all good things during that regime came from, aka economical growth.
Unlike the rest of south america, Chile chose not to sell itself to lefist populist and corrupt movements, aka Venezuela and Argentina.
Op is a biased lefist with no idea about economics nor abour history.
Sure Piñera is not corrupt at all and your opinion is not even slightly biased.
First Piñera may not be "corrupt" under the exact term definition, but when someone abuses private information to buy stokes from a company that will soon raise (and profit for that) or when someone gets caught spying and recording his political opponent telephone or maybe when someone gets special treatment and legal cover from the dictatorship after being accused of fraud, well you get the point, i dont know how that can be very good for Chile.
If I was you i would be a little more careful when refering about other countries, since its not that easy to give a lecture about something you dont know about. As a side note im not too sure if Venezuela or Argentina sell themselves but im sure Chile did it to the right. I mean the guy has a public television channel, (and another from theyr supporters), an airline and 1200 million dollars to spend in makeup, surgery and publicity.
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On January 18 2010 10:49 evanthebouncy! wrote:come to america
where the presidents are better lawlz
oh and where they recieve immigrant with open arms
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On January 18 2010 15:16 Saturnize wrote:
Is there a country in latin america that isn't run by drug lords?
i think you are asking about Bolivia, evo morales was well known for his cocain business... maybe im wrong , cause i dont care that much about bolivian's politics...
back to Piñera and his crew of zombies with tons of money, the problem that i see here is that they (the right wing) are the owners of almost everything, they own the papers news, TV channels, the economic power and now they have the goverment, so we are pretty much back to feudalism... but with credit cards.... we are under a really big ignorace bliss lead by the same people that will be in the goverment in next march...
well some people is calling piñera the chilean Berlusconi, make an opinion urself
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I am interested in learning about this.
what is the actual economic situation in Chile, can you please post some numbers ?
what is the min. income, average income, how much do you normally spend a month, regarding food, housing, price of cars, etc ?
From what I am informed, Chile is among the best countries in Latinamerica right now, do you guys see much of a change with this new president ? also, how long is the presidential term ? is he left-wing or right wing ?
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On January 18 2010 15:52 coltrane wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2010 15:35 Foucault wrote:On January 18 2010 15:04 nttea wrote:
its so sad people keep falling for these right wing nuts time and time again T_T You're saying the left wing is always better? lol Not always... but now it is for latinamerica.
Yeah I'm not saying I disagree with socialism necessarily, especially in South America, where so many countries have sold out their natural resources to american and international companies. You need leaders who stand up for your people and your countries and give the middle finger to the international multi-billion dollar business companies who want to take over your natural resources.
Hm, so OP really thinks this new guy is like Pinochet?
Edit: ugh so the new president is similar to Berlusconi? lol well, why are all leaders greedy and project an image of omnipotence? It's retarded. Power corrupts, yo.
And, I thought Chavez was pretty good? I mean he stands up to USA anyways. Because in all honesty american companies have been raping south america quite alot.
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Ah this is really unfortunate
I hope they'll have a briefing in the next issue of the economist.
Any quality information on the election in English?
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relax guys
Chile is like the most stable country in all latin america
The unimployement isn't hudge, the country have a stable demografic and wealthy growth. Economy is based on copper and that's not going anywhere in the next 5 years at least.
Sure, there is the inecualitys, education and health issues but let's face it... those issues are here since the birth of country and it's not going to change anytime soon.
point is, in those condition, why would a dictator like evil and corrupt son of a bitch (like some are describing him) , emerge?
the answer: he doesn't.
besides, he is not the only guy deciding everything, he has not the power (and nor the balls if I may add) to do any sort of drastic change. The majority of the voting country are just lazy christians familys and will not back up any sort of drastic changes.
The guy will just be another incompetent, like all the last presidents, make some mandatory reforms (things that country have to do at some point or another) and leave with a 70+ aproval percents.
That's politics in chile, same stuff with diferent covers, and some people screaming like madmans to pretend that it's a hudge deal.
In chile, you don't vote for the best, you vote for the less worst (or for the one that called you and shaked your hand like... 50%+ of the population).
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Admin please close thread and let discussion continue on the other one "Sebastian Piñera, new chilean president".
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my folks are in chile. things are dandy.
...
yup
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Why im bad? because i think different than you?
I never said that Piñera its like Pinochet, its a very different situation now in 2010 than 1973. Piñera is greedy and dark, but he its not a dictator nor a killer.
I'm just worried about the inequality and the concentration of power, both of this FACTS are a direct way to corruption, poverty and social problems.
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On January 19 2010 05:23 No_eL wrote:Why im bad? because i think different than you? I never said that Piñera its like Pinochet, its a very different situation now in 2010 than 1973. Piñera is greedy and dark, but he its not a dictator nor a killer. I'm just worried about the inequality and the concentration of power, both of this FACTS are a direct way to corruption, poverty and social problems.
'greedy' and 'dark'? If that's not subjective, I don't know what is.
Inequality is a fact of life in countries with high per-capita GDP. If you want a more equitative distribution of income, the most surefire way to achieve this is by making everyone poor. If you actually care about the poor, however, you'd worry more about their objective quality of life conditions- making sure they can find a job, have access to decent education and health care, and aren't overly hurt by crime- all of those, issues in which the Concertacion governments have been lacking.
As to concentration of power: Piñera is the owner of Chilevision, a TV channel that isn't terribly popular. He said he'll either sell or hand over administration of it to a blind trust (whatever that is) before he assumes as the president. If he does not distance himself from Chilevision by when he's a president, there will rightly be an outcry from the citizens on this matter.
And yes, your OP was terribad. Utterly subjective and uninformative.
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that is fault of chilean politicians
a chilean president cant be reelected after his 4 years gobernement, he has to wait to the next elections
that is stupid and you had to change that
I mean, why cant they be reelected right after their gobernement if people vote them?
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To be honest that sounds like a healthy development. In a stable democracy, one party shouldn't be in charge for over 20 years. It´s good when the opposition comes to power once in a while, especially in what are essentially 2-party-systems. Both sides represent one part of the population each, and there needs to be some balance. As long as both sides are moderate, I don´t see a problem here.
Of course the times under Pinochet were horrible, and should never ever be allowed to happen again. But there are several examples of post-dictatorial party remnants, who are now an integral part of a democracy, like the left-wing party here in germany, or the conservative PP in spain.
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On January 19 2010 06:00 Vernom wrote:
that is fault of chilean politicians
a chilean president cant be reelected after his 4 years gobernement, he has to wait to the next elections
that is stupid and you had to change that
I mean, why cant they be reelected right after their gobernement if people vote them?
This actually has to do with preventing lifetime rulers. Some countries, such as the US, will allow an immediate reelection, but ban you for life thereafter from assuming the presidency again.
Chile, instead, has a system in which immediate reelection is impossible, but subsequent reelections thereafter are possible. The Concertacion's presidential candidate was an ex-president, after all.
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On January 19 2010 06:07 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2010 06:00 Vernom wrote:
that is fault of chilean politicians
a chilean president cant be reelected after his 4 years gobernement, he has to wait to the next elections
that is stupid and you had to change that
I mean, why cant they be reelected right after their gobernement if people vote them? This actually has to do with preventing lifetime rulers. Some countries, such as the US, will allow an immediate reelection, but ban you for life thereafter from assuming the presidency again. Chile, instead, has a system in which immediate reelection is impossible, but subsequent reelections thereafter are possible. The Concertacion's presidential candidate was an ex-president, after all.
Sounds reasonable to me. Bachelet will have a good shot in 4 years and the chilean "Berlusconi" can´t stay in power as long as Berlusconi after all.
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That doesnt sound reasonable for me, as I said, that is the people which vote who decide if the president repeat or not.
Adding a law that doesnt allow to reelect is anti-democratic. What is so bad about lifetime rulers? If they do bad that is people's fault if they are reelected again.
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On January 19 2010 06:15 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2010 06:07 Zato-1 wrote:On January 19 2010 06:00 Vernom wrote:
that is fault of chilean politicians
a chilean president cant be reelected after his 4 years gobernement, he has to wait to the next elections
that is stupid and you had to change that
I mean, why cant they be reelected right after their gobernement if people vote them? This actually has to do with preventing lifetime rulers. Some countries, such as the US, will allow an immediate reelection, but ban you for life thereafter from assuming the presidency again. Chile, instead, has a system in which immediate reelection is impossible, but subsequent reelections thereafter are possible. The Concertacion's presidential candidate was an ex-president, after all. Sounds reasonable to me. Bachelet will have a good shot in 4 years and the chilean "Berlusconi" can´t stay in power as long as Berlusconi after all.
I find it unlikely that Piñera will have as much power as people think he will.
For one, Piñera's supporters control less than half the seats in both houses of parliament, so he'll have little choice but to govern by brokering with the Concertacion or with the unaligned minority in the lower house which could push him to over 50% of the votes there.
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I don't support Piñera at all, but one good thing may come out of this. Finally young people, might be given a choice after more then 40 years of people hating each other, in both sides.
Of course, another problem is the concentration of power and the conservatives principles relay on. I hope it won't be as bad as some people exepct. Its funny how, the only way to win an election it's to become a social "popular" party. Now every one seems to take about poor people, i only wish this is true.
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On January 19 2010 03:33 Foucault wrote:
And, I thought Chavez was pretty good? I mean he stands up to USA anyways. Because in all honesty american companies have been raping south america quite alot.
I lived in venezuela for a long time. +15 years, and I can tell you Chavez is one of the worse things that has happened to that country, to South America and in this world. I can post hundreds of facts explaining myself, but since this is a discussion regarding Chile, I don't feel it's necessary, unless you want me to.
I consider myself pretty neutral, neither left nor right, I just judge based on facts. Believe me it's one thing to be outside buying the image he creates and sells, totally different to live there everyday. Just let me know and I'll explain in further detail.
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lightman, Venezuelans disagree. So do neutral politician commentators in Europe. It's only the rich in Venezuela and the Americans that complain.
If you made 1200 millions during a military junta how are you not corrupt?
Also, the fact that his supporters try to gloss over the human rights violations or even claim the junta was great is very telling.
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On January 18 2010 11:06 BraveNewWorld wrote:
This is why politics should not mix with religion.
Look at what has happened to America. Not one single fucking atheist in the history of presidency.
You do know that the majority of the founding fathers were atheist...
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On January 19 2010 06:46 Glaucus wrote:
lightman, Venezuelans disagree. So do neutral politician commentators in Europe. It's only the rich in Venezuela and the Americans that complain.
If you made 1200 millions during a military junta how are you not corrupt?
Also, the fact that his supporters try to gloss over the human rights violations or even claim the junta was great is very telling.
The fact that the military junta in Chile is demonized is telling as well. Honestly, it did great things, and terrible things. It was great in terms of development and preparing country for the future. It probably wasn't so great if you were one of the people who was assassinated or tortured by the regime. By the time I had the ability to reason (7 years or so), Chile was already in a democracy, so I probably don't know the bad parts of the military government as well as the good ones.
Either way, the military government ended 20 years ago. I was just trying to teach non-chilean TL readers a little Chilean history. Augusto Pinochet is dead, the chilean army is a thoroughly professional and non-political force nowadays, and the military regime is in the past now. I just want it to be remembered fairly, with all its flaws and successes.
I'm not intimately familiar with Venezuela, but if the poor people there don't complain, it's because they don't know any better. Their future is being crushed and they're having food shortages.
I voted for Piñera, because I know he's personally and intellectually very capable. He's surrounded himself with over 2,000 young professionals in the grupos Tantauco in order to elaborate a good government plan. The faults in the Concertacion's governments have only grown worse with the years, and their presidential candidate is intellectually limited, much like G.W. Bush was. We'll have to wait and see how well Piñera does, but in all honesty, there's not a whole lot of people I'd rather have in government than him.
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On January 19 2010 06:06 Maenander wrote:
To be honest that sounds like a healthy development. In a stable democracy, one party shouldn't be in charge for over 20 years. It´s good when the opposition comes to power once in a while, especially in what are essentially 2-party-systems. Both sides represent one part of the population each, and there needs to be some balance. As long as both sides are moderate, I don´t see a problem here.
Of course the times under Pinochet were horrible, and should never ever be allowed to happen again. But there are several examples of post-dictatorial party remnants, who are now an integral part of a democracy, like the left-wing party here in germany, or the conservative PP in spain.
Its not one party, its a political block formed by 3 parties, the last 2 presidents were socialists, the actual candidate was from the christian democracy party.
You know? i am not actually scared of the government or anything else, im pretty sure that this will be politically good at long term, and the right wing will never be again in the government after this for a long long time, so in the end this could tourn into a good thing.
I am actually worried about 3 things:
1.- Privatization of the remaining minerals plus the 50% of CODELCO, the biggest cooper mine in the world, that now is property of the state and responsible of the 20% of the GDP Sold that is a lot of money in short term and a long poverty while spreading our legs to the US and some global companies.
2.- The enviroment. While the minning produces the public money, that goes into the services and into the people in the cities, we have a huge landscape full of natural resources such as water and eternal ice, many endogenic species and some of the best fruit and vegetables in the whole world. Go and buy chilean grape, chilean apples, chilean wine in your local market, and you will know what i am talking about. With the minning comes the money to the city and the destruction for the country. I have seen it here many times, but we still have many clean places, that we are risking. Mono-cultive, minning and fish farms, pork farms, chicken farms. The right wing will try to make more industry development at any price, and that isnt something where you can walk back if you want. You pollute a river and kill the whole valley.
3.- The streets. They have been telling the people for years that main the problem is the crime. That we need more jails, and harder laws. That we need more patrolling, more control and more security. In 10 years the half of the parks that use to be open, they look like a jail. And that is going further now.
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well, a party which is called christian isnt a good thing
I wonder when the fuck are we (the whole world) remove the religion from the politics.
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On January 19 2010 07:16 Vernom wrote:
well, a party which is called christian isnt a good thing
I wonder when the fuck are we (the whole world) remove the religion from the politics.
Chile's Christian Democrat party has very little Christian left in it.
There is another party in Chilean politics which is quite identified with Christianity, however. It's the Union Democrata Independiente (UDI), and they're the partners of Renovacion Nacional in the right-wing Coalicion por el Cambio. Although I can't forgive their religious inclinations, the party is otherwise fine.
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Actually, the UDI is thightly related to the opus dei
edit: oh yes, and they won. Thats why this sucks.
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On January 18 2010 15:16 Saturnize wrote:
Is there a country in latin america that isn't run by drug lords?
ban plz.....
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For you own sake you better hope your new guy doesn't have any ideas about taxing your bananas :D
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On January 19 2010 07:35 coltrane wrote:
Actually, the UDI is thightly related to the opus dei
edit: oh yes, and they won. Thats why this sucks.
seriously?
opus deis is the worst thing ever, gl to chile, you need that
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On January 18 2010 15:16 Saturnize wrote:
Is there a country in latin america that isn't run by drug lords?
well, usa is run by armament lords.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/18/world/americas/18chile.html?ref=americas
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8464136.stm
a couple of english articles, nothing outstanding though...
is funny to see ppl from US talking about democracy when they live in a country where some people's votes worth more than other people's vote, and where a candidate with more votes lost to other with less (Bush anyone?), not talking about war and dictatorships they have contructed (Saddam for ex).
Im kinda bored seeing ppl talking that know nothing about.
I considered myself a freethinker, so i have my reserves (nothing big though) over Sebastian Piñera, but i trust our stability and hope for the best.
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conservative? does that mean fewer ling allins?
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+WTB money-spent-on-election-campain statistics
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On January 19 2010 07:02 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2010 06:46 Glaucus wrote:
lightman, Venezuelans disagree. So do neutral politician commentators in Europe. It's only the rich in Venezuela and the Americans that complain.
If you made 1200 millions during a military junta how are you not corrupt?
Also, the fact that his supporters try to gloss over the human rights violations or even claim the junta was great is very telling.
The fact that the military junta in Chile is demonized is telling as well. Honestly, it did great things, and terrible things. It was great in terms of development and preparing country for the future. It probably wasn't so great if you were one of the people who was assassinated or tortured by the regime. By the time I had the ability to reason (7 years or so), Chile was already in a democracy, so I probably don't know the bad parts of the military government as well as the good ones. Either way, the military government ended 20 years ago. I was just trying to teach non-chilean TL readers a little Chilean history. Augusto Pinochet is dead, the chilean army is a thoroughly professional and non-political force nowadays, and the military regime is in the past now. I just want it to be remembered fairly, with all its flaws and successes. I'm not intimately familiar with Venezuela, but if the poor people there don't complain, it's because they don't know any better. Their future is being crushed and they're having food shortages. I voted for Piñera, because I know he's personally and intellectually very capable. He's surrounded himself with over 2,000 young professionals in the grupos Tantauco in order to elaborate a good government plan. The faults in the Concertacion's governments have only grown worse with the years, and their presidential candidate is intellectually limited, much like G.W. Bush was. We'll have to wait and see how well Piñera does, but in all honesty, there's not a whole lot of people I'd rather have in government than him.
1- I love how your little bit of chilean history sounds like objetive when in fact is way more biased than this threads op. I dont really care that much about the military government since I dont think things could have been different. However, dodging how Pinochet and partners made a huge amount of money (yeah i mean 17 million dol http://www.lanacion.cl/prontus_noticias/site/artic/20050415/pags/20050415104133.html) for a guy that gets paid as president is like a lot no¿) with fraud and ilicit business is quite telling about you. Not even gonna talk about Allendes government because i could put you on serious trouble there.
2- I also love how you intentionally dodge all the bad facts about Piñera, i mean he is very smart thats for sure, but his main ability is to get rich himself, not to make better jobs or companies.
Just answer:
-what do you think about Piñeras half fraud using private information on stocks buying¿
-what do you think about getting legal cover from the military government when accused of fraud¿
These are 100% facts about Piñera btw. Proof from wiki
+ Show Spoiler +Businesses
Piñera owns 100% of Chilevisión, a terrestrial television channel broadcasting nationwide; 27% of LAN Airlines (LAN), 13% of Colo-Colo,[6] a football (soccer) club; and holds significant stock positions in companies such as Quiñenco, Enersis, and Soquimich.
Piñera is a self-made billionaire with an estimated fortune of US$1 billion as of March 2009 according to Forbes magazine.[7] His wealth is attributed in great part to his involvement in the introduction of credit cards to Chile in the late 1970s and his subsequent investments, mainly in LAN Airlines stock. Piñera acquired shares of the formerly state-owned company from Scandinavian Airlines in 1994, as part of a joint venture with the Cueto family.[7][8]
In 1982 an arrest warrant was issued against Piñera. He was accused of violating the Banking Law during his time as general manager of the Bank of Talca. Piñera spent 24 days in hiding, while his lawyers appealed the order. A writ of habeas corpus was first rejected by the Appeals Court, but then approved by the Supreme Court, acquitting Piñera.[9]
In July 2007 Piñera was fined approximately US$680,000 by Chile's securities regulator (SVS) for not withdrawing a purchase order after he received privileged information (an infraction very similar to insider trading) of LAN Airlines stock in mid-2006.[10] Piñera denied any wrongdoing, and argued that the whole process was part of a political attack to damage his image. He did not appeal arguing that the court process could take years and interfere with his intention to run again for president in late 2009. Later that month he resigned from the boards of LAN and Quintec.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastián_Piñera
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So sad people, i really think you need more history lessons.
Or just read another newspaper, or watch another channel, hopefully not controlled by the future goverment....
Oh i forgot, there isn't.
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On January 19 2010 08:42 Malongo wrote:
Just answer:
-what do you think about Piñeras half fraud using private information on stocks buying¿
-what do you think about getting legal cover from the military government when accused of fraud¿
- I think he was a fool to try that, because it was an unnecessary risk and he didn't really need to pull that stunt, particularly when he knows that the Concertacion would give him hell about it- the persecution of Lavin between 1999 (when he almost won the presidency) and 2005 for the next elections was disgusting, and I'm frankly surprised Piñera didn't get something of the kind for this.
- What the hell do I care if the military government endorses him? Maybe they thought he was honestly innocent. Maybe they had ulterior motives for doing so. Either way, I don't see what's the big deal about this. You make it sound like the guy's a freaking drug lord, when he's mostly OK.
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On January 19 2010 08:16 Vernom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2010 07:35 coltrane wrote:
Actually, the UDI is thightly related to the opus dei
edit: oh yes, and they won. Thats why this sucks. seriously? opus deis is the worst thing ever, gl to chile, you need that
Some people in UDI have close ties to Opus Dei. Others couldn't care less for them. It's a big party, so it's bound to be heterogenous- but the party's official stance on many issues is strongly influenced by religion (contraception methods, abortion, and others I can't think of at this hour in the morning). UDI is also a party that identifies itself strongly with the poorest and neediest, and it's the fastest-growing and biggest political party in Chile.
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So, you know what is the meaning of demagogy?
all party leaders are opus dei. And are them, not the poorest and neediest who are voting our laws.
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On January 19 2010 23:31 coltrane wrote:
So, you know what is the meaning of demagogy?
all party leaders are opus dei. And are them, not the poorest and neediest who are voting our laws.
Clearly, you don't know UDI then. Because I do, and while some of them are in fact Opus Dei (most notably Lavin, the failed UDI presidential candidate for 1999 and 2005, and failed senatorial candidate for 2009), other important figures of UDI couldn't be farther from being Opus Dei- Andrés Chadwick, Jovino Novoa and Evelyn Matthei, I can vouch for in that sense. I don't know any other UDI leaders besides Lavin who are openly Opus Dei. Maybe you do?
I don't think so.
I know a younger, rising figure in UDI (José Antonio Kast)- who I wouldn't consider to be a party leader- happens to be a religious nut and has ties to Opus Dei as well. But seriously, while the official party stance on some issues is influenced by Christian values, members who belong to the Opus Dei (party leaders or not) are in the minority.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.futbolred.com/contenido/eliminatorias/noticias/2009/IMAGEN/IMAGEN-4800305-2.gif)
