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lightman
United States731 Posts
what is the actual economic situation in Chile, can you please post some numbers ? what is the min. income, average income, how much do you normally spend a month, regarding food, housing, price of cars, etc ? From what I am informed, Chile is among the best countries in Latinamerica right now, do you guys see much of a change with this new president ? also, how long is the presidential term ? is he left-wing or right wing ? | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
On January 18 2010 15:52 coltrane wrote: Not always... but now it is for latinamerica. Yeah I'm not saying I disagree with socialism necessarily, especially in South America, where so many countries have sold out their natural resources to american and international companies. You need leaders who stand up for your people and your countries and give the middle finger to the international multi-billion dollar business companies who want to take over your natural resources. Hm, so OP really thinks this new guy is like Pinochet? Edit: ugh so the new president is similar to Berlusconi? lol well, why are all leaders greedy and project an image of omnipotence? It's retarded. Power corrupts, yo. And, I thought Chavez was pretty good? I mean he stands up to USA anyways. Because in all honesty american companies have been raping south america quite alot. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
 I hope they'll have a briefing in the next issue of the economist. Any quality information on the election in English? | ||
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
Chile is like the most stable country in all latin america The unimployement isn't hudge, the country have a stable demografic and wealthy growth. Economy is based on copper and that's not going anywhere in the next 5 years at least. Sure, there is the inecualitys, education and health issues but let's face it... those issues are here since the birth of country and it's not going to change anytime soon. point is, in those condition, why would a dictator like evil and corrupt son of a bitch (like some are describing him) , emerge? the answer: he doesn't. besides, he is not the only guy deciding everything, he has not the power (and nor the balls if I may add) to do any sort of drastic change. The majority of the voting country are just lazy christians familys and will not back up any sort of drastic changes. The guy will just be another incompetent, like all the last presidents, make some mandatory reforms (things that country have to do at some point or another) and leave with a 70+ aproval percents. That's politics in chile, same stuff with diferent covers, and some people screaming like madmans to pretend that it's a hudge deal. In chile, you don't vote for the best, you vote for the less worst (or for the one that called you and shaked your hand like... 50%+ of the population). | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
... yup | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=110299 Sadly, it was closed down. You can see a more accurate depiction of what happened there. | ||
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No_eL
Chile1438 Posts
On January 19 2010 05:10 Zato-1 wrote: Since the OP in this thread is so bad, I made a new thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=110299 Sadly, it was closed down. You can see a more accurate depiction of what happened there. Why im bad? because i think different than you? I never said that Piñera its like Pinochet, its a very different situation now in 2010 than 1973. Piñera is greedy and dark, but he its not a dictator nor a killer. I'm just worried about the inequality and the concentration of power, both of this FACTS are a direct way to corruption, poverty and social problems. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On January 19 2010 05:23 No_eL wrote: Why im bad? because i think different than you? I never said that Piñera its like Pinochet, its a very different situation now in 2010 than 1973. Piñera is greedy and dark, but he its not a dictator nor a killer. I'm just worried about the inequality and the concentration of power, both of this FACTS are a direct way to corruption, poverty and social problems. 'greedy' and 'dark'? If that's not subjective, I don't know what is. Inequality is a fact of life in countries with high per-capita GDP. If you want a more equitative distribution of income, the most surefire way to achieve this is by making everyone poor. If you actually care about the poor, however, you'd worry more about their objective quality of life conditions- making sure they can find a job, have access to decent education and health care, and aren't overly hurt by crime- all of those, issues in which the Concertacion governments have been lacking. As to concentration of power: Piñera is the owner of Chilevision, a TV channel that isn't terribly popular. He said he'll either sell or hand over administration of it to a blind trust (whatever that is) before he assumes as the president. If he does not distance himself from Chilevision by when he's a president, there will rightly be an outcry from the citizens on this matter. And yes, your OP was terribad. Utterly subjective and uninformative. | ||
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Vernom
Spain374 Posts
a chilean president cant be reelected after his 4 years gobernement, he has to wait to the next elections that is stupid and you had to change that I mean, why cant they be reelected right after their gobernement if people vote them? | ||
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Maenander
Germany4927 Posts
Of course the times under Pinochet were horrible, and should never ever be allowed to happen again. But there are several examples of post-dictatorial party remnants, who are now an integral part of a democracy, like the left-wing party here in germany, or the conservative PP in spain. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On January 19 2010 06:00 Vernom wrote: that is fault of chilean politicians a chilean president cant be reelected after his 4 years gobernement, he has to wait to the next elections that is stupid and you had to change that I mean, why cant they be reelected right after their gobernement if people vote them? This actually has to do with preventing lifetime rulers. Some countries, such as the US, will allow an immediate reelection, but ban you for life thereafter from assuming the presidency again. Chile, instead, has a system in which immediate reelection is impossible, but subsequent reelections thereafter are possible. The Concertacion's presidential candidate was an ex-president, after all. | ||
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Maenander
Germany4927 Posts
On January 19 2010 06:07 Zato-1 wrote: This actually has to do with preventing lifetime rulers. Some countries, such as the US, will allow an immediate reelection, but ban you for life thereafter from assuming the presidency again. Chile, instead, has a system in which immediate reelection is impossible, but subsequent reelections thereafter are possible. The Concertacion's presidential candidate was an ex-president, after all. Sounds reasonable to me. Bachelet will have a good shot in 4 years and the chilean "Berlusconi" can´t stay in power as long as Berlusconi after all. | ||
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Vernom
Spain374 Posts
Adding a law that doesnt allow to reelect is anti-democratic. What is so bad about lifetime rulers? If they do bad that is people's fault if they are reelected again. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On January 19 2010 06:15 Maenander wrote: Sounds reasonable to me. Bachelet will have a good shot in 4 years and the chilean "Berlusconi" can´t stay in power as long as Berlusconi after all. I find it unlikely that Piñera will have as much power as people think he will. For one, Piñera's supporters control less than half the seats in both houses of parliament, so he'll have little choice but to govern by brokering with the Concertacion or with the unaligned minority in the lower house which could push him to over 50% of the votes there. | ||
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PangO
Chile1870 Posts
Of course, another problem is the concentration of power and the conservatives principles relay on. I hope it won't be as bad as some people exepct. Its funny how, the only way to win an election it's to become a social "popular" party. Now every one seems to take about poor people, i only wish this is true. | ||
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lightman
United States731 Posts
On January 19 2010 03:33 Foucault wrote: And, I thought Chavez was pretty good? I mean he stands up to USA anyways. Because in all honesty american companies have been raping south america quite alot. I lived in venezuela for a long time. +15 years, and I can tell you Chavez is one of the worse things that has happened to that country, to South America and in this world. I can post hundreds of facts explaining myself, but since this is a discussion regarding Chile, I don't feel it's necessary, unless you want me to. I consider myself pretty neutral, neither left nor right, I just judge based on facts. Believe me it's one thing to be outside buying the image he creates and sells, totally different to live there everyday. Just let me know and I'll explain in further detail. | ||
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Glaucus
479 Posts
If you made 1200 millions during a military junta how are you not corrupt? Also, the fact that his supporters try to gloss over the human rights violations or even claim the junta was great is very telling. | ||
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On January 18 2010 11:06 BraveNewWorld wrote: This is why politics should not mix with religion. Look at what has happened to America. Not one single fucking atheist in the history of presidency. You do know that the majority of the founding fathers were atheist... | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On January 19 2010 06:46 Glaucus wrote: lightman, Venezuelans disagree. So do neutral politician commentators in Europe. It's only the rich in Venezuela and the Americans that complain. If you made 1200 millions during a military junta how are you not corrupt? Also, the fact that his supporters try to gloss over the human rights violations or even claim the junta was great is very telling. The fact that the military junta in Chile is demonized is telling as well. Honestly, it did great things, and terrible things. It was great in terms of development and preparing country for the future. It probably wasn't so great if you were one of the people who was assassinated or tortured by the regime. By the time I had the ability to reason (7 years or so), Chile was already in a democracy, so I probably don't know the bad parts of the military government as well as the good ones. Either way, the military government ended 20 years ago. I was just trying to teach non-chilean TL readers a little Chilean history. Augusto Pinochet is dead, the chilean army is a thoroughly professional and non-political force nowadays, and the military regime is in the past now. I just want it to be remembered fairly, with all its flaws and successes. I'm not intimately familiar with Venezuela, but if the poor people there don't complain, it's because they don't know any better. Their future is being crushed and they're having food shortages. I voted for Piñera, because I know he's personally and intellectually very capable. He's surrounded himself with over 2,000 young professionals in the grupos Tantauco in order to elaborate a good government plan. The faults in the Concertacion's governments have only grown worse with the years, and their presidential candidate is intellectually limited, much like G.W. Bush was. We'll have to wait and see how well Piñera does, but in all honesty, there's not a whole lot of people I'd rather have in government than him. | ||
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